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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Type IV Engine thoughts....
Posted by: malcolm2 Nov 18 2019, 09:58 AM
I can't seem to settle on what I should do here. I have a good 1.8 engine, that I probably could have just attempted to get running, but it was so greasy, I figured that it did not have too much maintenance done on it over the years.... I found a bearing had moved a bit and the dowel pin gouged it. But that is all I found. Measured the bearing saddles and they are all round and even front to back.
So I figured I would crack it open and give it new life with a stock rebuild. Just a daily driver, reliable engine with torque for the bus.
I want to put it in my 72 Bus. I figured I would go with new dual carbs and a new carb cam. Considering a mega squirt option tho. So that would be a different cam. On my 914 I got the cam package from Raby years ago, so I figured Type4store for the full cam package with all the goodies.
Again, I was thinking of 96mm P/C, but also figured I would save alittle $ and just re-install the 93mm stock P/C. But the 1911 option is still on the table.
The Heads are what really have me thinking. I would like to find a local shop that might be able to check them over, but I don't think there are VW experts around here now-adays. Should I try to do some checking myself? I am cleaning them up to look for obvious cracks. What else can I do myself?
I know the Type4store has great ones, just can't make myself pull the trigger. Even heard bad stories about AMC stock (non-type4 store ones) being not so good.
Asked similar questions on TheSamba but really did not get much advice.
You guys have any thoughts?
Posted by: 914Sixer Nov 18 2019, 01:44 PM
I remember that Jake Raby had a perfect bus engine, not sure where you would find the details now. Parts may still be available a the Type 4 Store.
Posted by: malcolm2 Nov 18 2019, 02:32 PM
I remember that Jake Raby had a perfect bus engine, not sure where you would find the details now. Parts may still be available a the Type 4 Store.
Oh they are.... I could go with their cam (super version with all the extras), their heads (camper specials). Not sure I would pull the trigger with Nickies P/C. But just the 2 above would be close to $4K, which I am OK with.
I do wonder about the rank and file on here and what they do about getting heads you can count on? I don't mind spending the $, but if there is another reliable, tried and true option for a daily driver, I would like to know about it.
Posted by: thelogo Nov 18 2019, 02:55 PM
If low end if what you want then a 1911 or 2110
Will be adequate but not really a torque y engine that a bus needs .so its a compromise either way .
But 1.8/ 1911 etc ...after a refresh will literally run forever 
But thats could cost more then 3 (domestic) 
Subaru engine s.
Or audi 1.8L turbos 
If you want your bus to really fly .... Try adding wings ?
Posted by: malcolm2 Nov 18 2019, 03:23 PM
But 1.8/ 1911 etc ...after a refresh will literally run forever
Tell me more.
Posted by: thelogo Nov 18 2019, 03:33 PM
But 1.8/ 1911 etc ...after a refresh will literally run forever
Tell me more.
Like i said expensive $
But send out entire ( power egg ) to who ever is close to you ... Og customs ?
To get rebuilt not just heads and then tune dial in
Valve adjustments& oil changes
Always fresh gas .... It will run forever
Posted by: Chi-town Nov 18 2019, 04:03 PM
Don't forget you'll need all he bus hardware to install it (fan shroud, oil filler, etc) and you'll need to machine out the fuel pump and oil filler holes on the block.
Posted by: malcolm2 Nov 18 2019, 06:08 PM
Don't forget you'll need all he bus hardware to install it (fan shroud, oil filler, etc) and you'll need to machine out the fuel pump and oil filler holes on the block.
Not doing either. I will get an electric fuel pump. Low PSI if i go with carbs. and the oil filler will still be 914 style.
I have been told that trying to put the mechanical fuel pump in might be tuff and a electric pump can be wired and relayed to cut off.
Have not researched the oil filler difference, but I did add the engine hatch to the back shelf of the bus. So I can get to the carbs and fill the oil thru that. VW did not add the hatch 'til 73.
Posted by: Bleyseng Nov 18 2019, 06:56 PM
Camper Special at 100hp is the way to go. 325-375f head temps are typical. I have 60,000 miles on mine now.
Posted by: jcd914 Nov 18 2019, 10:12 PM
I would look for a 2.0 crank and rods to build a 2056 with a set of 96mm P&C's.
The longer stroke really helps push a bus.
Jim
Posted by: ClayPerrine Nov 19 2019, 01:12 PM
If you want your bus to really fly ....
Put a 3.2 911 engine with Motronic and a 915 trans in it. I drove a VW bus with that setup. It was a pleasure to drive. No 0 to 60 in 4.3 weeks, it actually would accellerate. The AC was cold, and it sounded really good.
The 911 drive train will mostly bolt in, just custom engine tin and mounts.
Posted by: TargaToy Nov 19 2019, 02:09 PM
What I took from Malcolm2's post was a question about the possibility of re-using his 1.8 heads, presuming they are actually "low mileage" and undamaged. I know it's generally accepted now that the heads are now XX years old and not viable for a rebuild but sometimes, these old heads have just been sitting.
I've got an old 1.8 that's been sitting for years in my shed waiting to be a donor and I have no idea how long it sat before I procured it. Like the OP, I was planning to eventually tear into the 1.8 and see if the heads could be rebuilt.
I think we've all read Jake's old article about building a 1911 or 2056 and saw that 1.8 heads made really nice street heads due to their larger valves and ability to take 96mm cylinders without machine work.
So back to the topic 
...is there anybody left that will still work on cylinder heads and give them a rebuild/refresh for those of us that aren't ready to stroke the big checks for new performance heads?
Posted by: mepstein Nov 19 2019, 02:29 PM
If you want your bus to really fly ....
Put a 3.2 911 engine with Motronic and a 915 trans in it. I drove a VW bus with that setup. It was a pleasure to drive. No 0 to 60 in 4.3 weeks, it actually would accellerate. The AC was cold, and it sounded really good.
The 911 drive train will mostly bolt in, just custom engine tin and mounts.
Exhaust, shifter, wiring, fuel lines, oil tank, oil cooler, axles, etc & $20K. Marty at MSDS used to sell a kit.
Posted by: porschetub Nov 19 2019, 02:36 PM
I would go 96mm unless you have good 93's on hand,best to select a bus performance cam which will work better for torque and the extra weigh of the bus.
Get the heads hot-tanked to find any cracks and if they are ok get a quality 3 angle valve job,replace exhaust valves and worn guides as required,IMO if the heads aren't cracked its worth reusing them if reconditioned correctly.
Good luck.
Posted by: malcolm2 Nov 19 2019, 03:11 PM
I would go 96mm unless you have good 93's on hand,best to select a bus performance cam which will work better for torque and the extra weigh of the bus.
Get the heads hot-tanked to find any cracks and if they are ok get a quality 3 angle valve job,replace exhaust valves and worn guides as required,IMO if the heads aren't cracked its worth reusing them if reconditioned correctly.
Good luck.
The heads are my concern, they look crack free, but I did not know what to do to fully check them. Isn't magnaflux? something that can be done. Or does it not work on Aluminum? While cracks are 1 thing, what about the seats? That is what failed on my 1st 1.8.
I read a forum post where the poster cooked the heads in the oven to 400 and tried to knock the seats out.... very scientific.....
Posted by: malcolm2 Nov 19 2019, 03:25 PM
What I took from Malcolm2's post was a question about the possibility of re-using his 1.8 heads, presuming they are actually "low mileage" and undamaged. I know it's generally accepted now that the heads are now XX years old and not viable for a rebuild but sometimes, these old heads have just been sitting.
I've got an old 1.8 that's been sitting for years in my shed waiting to be a donor and I have no idea how long it sat before I procured it. Like the OP, I was planning to eventually tear into the 1.8 and see if the heads could be rebuilt.
I think we've all read Jake's old article about building a 1911 or 2056 and saw that 1.8 heads made really nice street heads due to their larger valves and ability to take 96mm cylinders without machine work.
So back to the topic
...is there anybody left that will still work on cylinder heads and give them a rebuild/refresh for those of us that aren't ready to stroke the big checks for new performance heads?Yes, I am sure these heads have been idle for 10 years. And yes again on Jakes 1911.
That is what I did in my 914. I might have gotten HAM's last 1.8 re-built heads back in 2013. I believe they removed the seats, cut deeper and added a proprietary metal seat. Nice valves, guides, springs, keepers, adjusters, etc.... Wish I could send these to him. Maybe I'll shoot HAM a note and he will show me some charity....
To add to your last paragraph. "that know what they are doing, and in my case are fairly local so I don't have crazy shipping costs."
Posted by: porschetub Nov 19 2019, 10:13 PM
I would go 96mm unless you have good 93's on hand,best to select a bus performance cam which will work better for torque and the extra weigh of the bus.
Get the heads hot-tanked to find any cracks and if they are ok get a quality 3 angle valve job,replace exhaust valves and worn guides as required,IMO if the heads aren't cracked its worth reusing them if reconditioned correctly.
Good luck.
The heads are my concern, they look crack free, but I did not know what to do to fully check them. Isn't magnaflux? something that can be done. Or does it not work on Aluminum? While cracks are 1 thing, what about the seats? That is what failed on my 1st 1.8.
I read a forum post where the poster cooked the heads in the oven to 400 and tried to knock the seats out.... very scientific.....
Yes should have mentioned seats,I would do the exhaust seats for piece of mind,the intakes don't give to much issue unless head cracked or has been overheated.
A good engine builder will pick up on this needed seat work when the heads are cleaned and crack free ,this is the next step to the repair.
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