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Posted by: poorsche914 Dec 20 2019, 08:59 PM

EDIT Swapped out the engine with my 2056 so I could drive this car. I plan on installing a MegaSquirt system on the supercharged engine.

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After failing to get the supercharged T4 engine running properly with the progressive Weber originally installed, I am ready to go the Megasquirt route. In talks with the owner who had this 914 in the early/mid '90s, it has been determined that this setup has never run well. He had a euro auto shop tune it and they got it to run somewhat decent but never reliable. I am hoping a modern FI system will bring this unique build to life!

Below is my MS parts list:

MS Wiring Harness #
Crank Trigger Pkg #
Modified Coolant Temp Sensor #
Relay Board & Cable #
Mini Cam Sync #
MS2 v3.57 *
EV1 Fuel Injectors *
TPS *
IAT *
(8) LS2 Coil Packs w/Brackets ** ebay/amazon
Bosch Lambda Sensor (1 or maybe 4***) ebay/amazon

# from thedubshop.net
* already have from used fuel-only MS system I bought
** I need eight coil packs since I plan to use the twin plug setup
*** I am thinking of going with (4) of the Lambda sensors (one at the end of each tube of the heat exchangers) so that each cylinder can be individually tuned. Is that something MS supports? Is it even necessary? From what I've read, for a stock setup it is not needed but I am thinking with the supercharger it may be useful.

Current SC setup is, from top to bottom: Carb > SC > Plenum > Runners > Heads
The intake runners are modified runners from the single Weber kit - slight bends to fit from heads to center-mounted plenum box.
My idea is to have stock runners similarly modified so that the new setup would be: TB (mounted on custom plate similar to how carb is currently mounted) > SC> Plenum > Runners > Injectors > Heads

I am hoping a tunable fuel injection system is what this engine needs. And, if not successful, I will remove the SC and run the engine as a twin plug.

Anything I am missing? Anything I don't really need?
I am ready to gather together all the parts I need and start putting it together first of the year.
Would like to have it running and tuned to take to Werks Reunion in March
EDIT: This particular project postponed til I have more time.

Thanks!
steve

Posted by: falcor75 Dec 21 2019, 02:02 AM

My thoughts:

If you have a fuel only MS, what will control the spark?
The minicam sync is nice but for starters I would just run wasted spark. You can always go sequential at a later stage when you have everything working.
Is the twin plug really necessary? I think it will only increase complexity and cost. My system (10,3:1 compression, ITB's on a 78x96 cc engine) runs off a single wideband in the rear muffler and the CHT temps are fairly even. https://www.instagram.com/p/B2JG4O_lsYT/
As long as you get equal air to all cylinders you should be fine.

3 months for sourcing the parts and installing and tuning may be a tall order unless you have alot of free time or get help. Especially the tuning, line up a tuner as soon as possible and get him onboard and get his views on the build too.

Posted by: poorsche914 Dec 21 2019, 06:17 AM

Thank you, Mats... good questions/suggestions.

The used system I bought is fuel only. Crank trigger will control spark.

Is wasted spark easier to setup initially?

Twin plug setup probably isn't "necessary" but the heads are already set up that way and I thought I would utilize that. As for the four sensors... yeah, that is probably overkill

I am on seasonal layoff so have plenty of time. Also, a local friend of mine has put together many MS systems. He travels for work a lot, however, so I will need to grab him while he is in town.

I need to pull the engine anyway to deal with a cylinder with low compression so I figure while it is out, I install MS.

Your suggestion of starting out with wasted spark and forego the twin-plug setup is a good one. Makes sense to start with a less complicated build and add to it.

If it looks like I am running out of time to make it to Werks with the supercharged engine, I will install the 2056 from my LE.

steve

Posted by: ClayPerrine Dec 21 2019, 07:16 AM

I have a complete functioning waste spark system off a Pontiac. I ran it on the original 2.0 with carbs, and the built in advance curve was really good for the carbs.

It is yours for free if you want it. The crank trigger is setup to mount in the flywheel hole in the back of the case. You will have to have trigger notches machined in the back of the flywheel, but that would be simple for a machinist to do.

Let me know if you want it, and I will ship it.

I also have the full FI setup from the Pontiac. It was a 2.0L turbo Pontiac engine. It might be perfect for what you are trying to do.

Clay

Posted by: poorsche914 Dec 21 2019, 08:59 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 Is this an MS system or a stock Pontiac system modified to work on a T4?

Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 21 2019, 11:41 AM

How's the engine? Best induction system in the world won't compensate for a fuched engine.
The reason mcmark sticks with the 1.7 is it has smaller head bore and thick cylinder walls for sealing, for a 2.0 head seaing won't like much boost.

Posted by: poorsche914 Dec 21 2019, 12:04 PM

This is an engine built by RPM in Daytona in the late '80s. From the magazine coverage:
B&M 66 cid Roots-type blower yielding 6lbs boost at 5800rpm
blueprinted case, crank and con rods
shuffle pins used to limit vibration around central main bearing at high rpm
Mahle P/Cs 8:1 cr
Dual valve springs
Progressive 2-barrel 36 DFAV Weber carb

When I got the car, it had been sitting for the last 3 years and the engine was seized. I got it to turn and have had it running with the carb (rebuilt) but compression on #2 is at ~110 while the other three are ~130+
I am going to pull the engine and repair the issue with #2 before installing the MS system.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Dec 21 2019, 01:37 PM

It's a stock Pontiac system. Complete with ECU and all parts, including wiring diagrams.

Posted by: poorsche914 Dec 23 2019, 05:15 PM

Today I talked to the original builder of the supercharged engine.
I asked him how reliable this setup was. Short answer... not very
One of the things he mentioned was too much boost on the 2.0 will cause leaking.

So... now I am having second thoughts about getting the SC running.

Going to put this project on hold for now.

Posted by: get off my lawn Dec 23 2019, 06:22 PM

I ran a 2 liter type at 7 to 9 psi boost reliably on the street and track and hit 15 psi boost a couple times by accident. No sealing problems.
I just lapped the cylinders to the heads.

around 6 or 7 psi was the sweet spot IMO.

Posted by: poorsche914 Dec 23 2019, 08:04 PM

Thanks for this info. I will ask Jay if he remembers doing anything special re: cylinder to head sealing when he built the engine.

I haven't given up on this project completely but will install MS on my 2056 first. As mentioned, I bought a fuel-only system so will use that as the starting point and add the crank trigger and other needed items. A local teener has installed MS on his 2056 so tuning should be relatively easy.

Posted by: JamesM Dec 23 2019, 08:20 PM

You are going to need a MAP sensor or 2 (I recommend 2 so you have baro correction)

I would ditch the MS2 v3.57 and the relay board and run Microsquirt utilizing the stock relays instead, will be an easier/cleaner install as the Microsquirt is both smaller and spec'd to live in the engine bay. The relays you need already exist on the stock relay board, just use the same connection that d-jet does. The full blown MS2 is overkill and wont gain you anything anyways.

Ditch the cam sync completely. Added complexity for zero gain

Ditch the 8 LS2 coil packs and run dual VW 4 post logic level coil packs, bank fired.

If you are going back to stock d-jet intake runners I would run injectors that fit them without modification (but that is all up to how much fab work you want to do)
These are high impedance and fit the stock runners and fuel rails:
https://www.fiveomotorsport.com/a280-a380-high-impedance-hose-type-fuel-injector/

I wouldn't worry about the 4 wideband sensors and individual cylinder fuel trim, the rest of the motor isn't that precise and you are already getting HUGE gains in fueling precision going from a carb to Megasquirt.

I dont see any reason why the motor wouldn't be reliable when properly setup. Im sure proper fuel and spark control alone will add a decent amount of power and reliability to that motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nljeNyH07Cs

Posted by: poorsche914 Dec 23 2019, 08:51 PM

Thank you, James, for your expert advice.

I will add MAP sensors to my list.

I originally bought a Microsquirt ECU about a year or so ago with plans to convert my 2056 from carbs. Ended up selling it to a local friend last fall to help him get his 914 ready for an event.
The used system I have includes the MS2 v3.57 and thought I would need it to run twin plugs. Does the Microsquirt support twin plugs?

Cam sync and LS2 coil packs and 4 wideband sensors... I was thinking more control might be of benefit esp. with supercharger but if it just adds complexity...

Here is what I currently have:

MS2 v3.57 ECU
Wiring Harness: main and a smaller one (see photos)
Filter housing, TB, plenum and intakes from 2.0
Aftermarket high impedance fuel injectors
Plus various other stock D-jet bits and pieces.

This is what I hope for. It should be a fun engine with plenty of power.

Posted by: JamesM Dec 24 2019, 02:33 AM

It can, depending on how you plan on firing the plugs. Microsquirt has 2 logic level ignition outputs which if you fire in wasted spark mode should be all you need for this. Basically, with two 4 cylinder coil packs we are just doing a dual wasted spark setup. Wire the first coil up exactly as you would a normal wasted spark setup to the primary plugs. Then, because we are working with logic level outputs, you wire the 2nd coil pack up the exact same way, using the same ignition outputs with the leads connected to the secondary plugs. End result is the firing of 4 plugs on each ignition event, 2 on the compression cylinder and 2 on the wasted spark cylinder.






Exponential complexity addition for what would be an imperceptible if not completely non existent difference.

I would consider starting from scratch with the harness, probably save you some time and headaches.

Posted by: jc73-914 Dec 27 2019, 11:39 AM

thx for posting, interesting project, might follow same route one day.

What fuel injectors are you using? would you mind sharing make and part#, thx.

John

Posted by: poorsche914 Dec 27 2019, 01:10 PM

The injectors I have are # 01D092B and came with a used setup.
A Google search brings up nothing
But there are injectors with similar numbering found on thedubshop.com and elsewhere.

steve

Posted by: jc73-914 Dec 27 2019, 07:17 PM

Great, thx for the info.

--j.

Posted by: poorsche914 Jan 4 2020, 10:10 PM

The harness looks to have been done quite well with good connectors and shrink wrap so plan on using it. I will test all the wires just to be sure there are none with issues.
I believe this is the unit @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13474 had in one of his 914s. Maybe he will chime in with any caveats.

I plan on crank trigger at some point but have read to start with fuel only to get a feel for the MS system.
Since coils are "noisy" and interfere with MS, what are thoughts on sending signal to the tach via CDI unit? I have a vintage blue Permatune that I could use.
I also have the Crane Cams XR700 that came with the rest of the MS stuff that I could use with supplied distributor but prefer to keep my Mallory distributor with Unilite module since I know it works.