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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 08:02 PM

See the "Real LE" thread below for the history.

Car was in a flash flood in Pennsylvania late last summer. It was in a shop nearing completion of a six conversion. Owner had blown up two big fours before deciding to try a six. Engine was from Motormeister. Car was under water up to the dash for about 30 minutes. Nationwide settled with the car owner and it went to auction. Bought by fellow in Ventura, CA last Oct. and he stored it until last month when he decided time did not allow for a project. It went to Ebay and I bought it with an offer before the auction ended.

JP Stein joined me for the beginning of the autopsy. We opened the sump drain plug and here is what we found. Not much oil, 2+ quarts of water.


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 08:04 PM

After removing the screen JP fished out this pile of shrapnel.
Don't think water did this!


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 08:06 PM

Engine out, using JP's very slick jack and boxes. My four post allowed lifting the car instead of dropping the engine.


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Posted by: ! Jul 2 2005, 08:08 PM

Ouch....floods AND Motor Meister....ya need a shaman, five virgins, a gross of chickens and a bottle of tekilya to negate THAT mad MOJO.....woof...

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 08:10 PM

You ain't seen nothin' yet Z

Pennsylvania silt.


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 08:10 PM

And more silt


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 08:11 PM

Plugs


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 08:12 PM

Clutch disc dissolved. Hope the rusty p. plate and flywheel can be saved.


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 08:13 PM

Found an unusual starter.


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 08:14 PM

Here is proof that MM seated at least one intake valve properly.
Held a port full for a year!


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 08:15 PM

Think there might be water in the fuel?


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 08:18 PM

I have now completely disassembled the engine and split the case. Haven't taken any pics of the results but will do so soon. Stay tuned to see a Motormeister engine that has never been driven. (I am not yet sure if the shop ran it on the bench before install. I intend to find out).


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Posted by: ! Jul 2 2005, 08:24 PM

Seen worse, looks like it was gotten to early and quite saveable....don't toss out the virgins and the Tekillya too soon though....

Goat boy should be chiming in soon....

Posted by: redshift Jul 2 2005, 08:25 PM

Porschequarium



M

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 2 2005, 08:30 PM

porschubmarine

Posted by: redshift Jul 2 2005, 08:31 PM

Das Boot

Posted by: J P Stein Jul 2 2005, 08:52 PM

Hummm.....What's the shittage in that intake port? Also,
that is not a stock 2.7L intake port..appears to be a small port carb head.

MM did sumthin' there....it appears to be a half assed porting job.

Posted by: redshift Jul 2 2005, 08:54 PM

Still waiting for a video of you sliding around, JP.


M

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 09:27 PM

Ok, here's the the rocker side of one bank. Cam not rusty, just a little light rust on the rockers.


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 09:29 PM

Here's the hot side. Must have been run by someone on the bench but pretty fresh looking.



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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 09:31 PM

Now for the gore.......... #4 guess we know where the shrapnel came from. Pretty strong flood currents in Pennsylvania!


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 09:32 PM

Alusil cylinders by the way. Here is #1. Lots nicer than 4.


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 09:33 PM

#5 got hit by hard water too.


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 09:36 PM

Case looks good to my eye.
JP, can small bore heads be installed on 90mm cylinders?


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Posted by: J P Stein Jul 2 2005, 09:42 PM

Hummm....the rings appear to be intact.....cept maybe the oil ring. That could be a chicken/egg deal. My WAG, galling....
non ferocoated piston on a Alusil cylinder.....Musta made *some* noise
How did the rod look?

Bring them suckers to the AX tomorrow for "show & tell".
We can set it on the registration desk.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 09:43 PM

Gotta get JP over here with his measuring sticks to see what we have for a crank.

Shop owner told me the car had never been on the road as a six. Pretty obvious that is true since it has a new Velios tank which has never been plumbed. He said the motor was "fresh" from Motormeister. I intend to call him to make sure and to ask if he ran it before it was installed. Meantime, I don't think I'll be asking MM to build the replacement. I might suggest he order his next one from somewhere else.

I'll post some pics of the interior in a few days. You would never know it was submerged, unless you noticed the high water lines inside the gauge lenses!!!


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Posted by: 0396 Jul 2 2005, 09:44 PM

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Jul 2 2005, 07:31 PM)

Now for the gore.......... #4 guess we know where the shrapnel came from. Pretty strong flood currents in Pennsylvania!

Nice reused parts rebuild

Posted by: J P Stein Jul 2 2005, 09:46 PM

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Jul 2 2005, 07:36 PM)

Case looks good to my eye. JP, can small bore heads be installed on 90mm cylinders?

If ya got a Mill or lathe

Posted by: LuckieO Jul 2 2005, 09:46 PM

For the record, my husband will lose sleep over this...he is currently in the pooper and wishes to remain undisturbed! He is moaning and groaning over flood damage!

Luck

Posted by: ! Jul 2 2005, 09:49 PM

Thanks for the visual.....

Posted by: ! Jul 2 2005, 09:54 PM

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Jul 2 2005, 07:43 PM)

Gotta get JP over here with his measuring sticks to see what we have for a crank. Shop owner told me the car had never been on the road as a six. Pretty obvious that is true since it has a new Velios tank which has never been plumbed. He said the motor was "fresh" from Motormeister. I intend to call him to make sure and to ask if he ran it before it was installed. Meantime, I don't think I'll be asking MM to build the replacement. I might suggest he order his next one from somewhere else. I'll post some pics of the interior in a few days. You would never know it was submerged, unless you noticed the high water lines inside the gauge lenses!!!

Stand in line if ya think that MM will stand behind anything unless they are behind you to push you over a cliff...

There's a current "I got got fucked by MM for the tune of 14K" on the Bird Board....besides hiring Cousin Guido to go shoot off some knee caps....nothing will happen.

The BAR has let these assholes rip off people for years.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jul 2 2005, 10:07 PM

No thought of trying to get satisfaction from MM. I bought the car assuming engine was a boat anchor (but hoping to get lucky). I just want to get the facts straight, and if appropriate, advise the shop in PA to do business elsewhere next time.

I have arranged to have a 2.7 built to install in the car this summer. If case (7R)and crank are good I will sell them. Head assemblies might be usable, depending on whether or not I can determine what they are!

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 3 2005, 05:51 AM

i bought flood car years ago jim. tap on the longs. do they sound "not hollow"? i cut one open and the silt was 3/4 of the way to the top.

k

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 3 2005, 09:05 AM

Wonder if anyone collected insurance money on that "flood" damage? If they did bet that car was being towed all over town in search of a low spot in the road

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jul 3 2005, 09:14 AM

Looks like you'll be busy spending money on that six. Time to sell me 2233

Posted by: GWN7 Jul 3 2005, 09:26 AM

I made a submarine a few years ago. S15 on a boat ramp. E brake failed. Boat floated up and jamed against the dock. Saved the truck from going straight down.

The rust issues didn't apear until a few years later and strangely enough the rust started right at the dipping line.

Hope the hidden spots didn't fill with water. It looks like a nice car.

Posted by: Phoenix Aug 3 2005, 06:11 PM

Hi all:

I usually am on the Pelican board and saw is post covering Motormeister.

A few years ago I had major issues with them one being the fact that they replaced the 7R case on my 73.5T with a 5R for no apparent reason and without telling me that they did or why (you can read the whole story on the PP board by search Phoenix and Motormeister). My belief is that they took my 7R cas to build a higher performance engine.

Just out of morbid curiousity, does the case you have bear the serial number 6135540?

It's a long shot, but if I manage to find the case, I'll have something solid on them.

My advice with MM is do your homework, read up on case histories thne make your own decision.

... Oliver

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Aug 3 2005, 06:17 PM

The case is at JP Stein's right now. I'll email him and ask that he look at this thread.

Posted by: J P Stein Aug 3 2005, 06:29 PM

6141129, sorry. I hope you turned them into the cops for theft.
The 73 7R case is the most sought after of all the mag cases and thus worth more..

Posted by: LongARM Aug 3 2005, 06:42 PM

good story....and nice find...
definitely has a story..

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 3 2005, 06:57 PM

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Jul 3 2005, 08:05 AM)

Wonder if anyone collected insurance money on that "flood" damage? If they did bet that car was being towed all over town in search of a low spot in the road

exactly what i've been thinking ...
shop installs /6.
fires it up.
it blows up in smoke.
they push the car on a trailer and drive to the next river.

flashflood! and voila, the insurance company pays for the whole crap-o-la ...
Andy

Posted by: J P Stein Aug 3 2005, 07:14 PM

Devious minds.....just like mine
*Somebody* started it.....but not in the car...it scattered and it didn't die quietly.
There was no oil in it....but a gallon of water....plus silt.
Jim mentioned that it was the second motor from MM, right?

Supposedly, the car was the owners baby & he had it fixed price insured for 25 K. Since he already had blowed up a couple t-4s, maybe he decided it was jinxed.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Aug 3 2005, 07:22 PM

My initial detective work says it was a legit. accident. Shop owner told me they first got an engine from MM with poor oil pressure and sent it back. That suggests they bench ran the first one. Would seem to me they would have heard this one self-destruct and sent it back too. However, it was installed but not wired or plumbed.
I found the shop by calling a PCA officer from the Pittsburgh area trying to find the former owner. He told me about the flood and gave me name and number of the shop. He said several cars were lost. Only a couple that were on lifts were saved. Shop owner told me the car was under for about 30 minutes. High water line was mid-glovebox. Water did not reach the gauge console. I left a phone message with former owner but he did not return my call. I will probably try again. Shop owner said losing the car was like losing a child for the guy, so he might not want to talk about it. I was told he had $50K in the car (multiple engines, major repaint, lots of mods (cage, fuel cell, chassis stiffening, bushings, Bilsteins, pair of Koenigs, custom carpet, 7" Revolution wheels, fiberglass rear bumper, front dam, etc.). Apparently it was all done by pros. Owner was not a DIY type. Two different people said the car was "agreed value" insured and he received $25K. Car now has a salvage title.
I have stripped interior and removed floor tar. All is well there. Removed fuel cell and surround and cleaned silt from trunk floor. Drained tranny and found mostly gear oil with maybe 8 ounces of water. Plan to refill and use it until I hear problems. I have a rebuilt 2.7 with Webers on the way. Optimistic goal is to make the start at our local AX on 9/11 (ominous date!).

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 3 2005, 08:13 PM

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Aug 3 2005, 06:22 PM)

I have stripped interior and removed floor tar. All is well there.

like said above in another post, you gotta check out all the hollow spaces (longs, center tunnel, seat support, the rails between pass. cabin and front trunk) ...

you don't want *any* of that stuff sitting in there attracting moisture ...
Andy

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Aug 3 2005, 09:06 PM

I've checked all of that as best I can. I guess if it rusts it won't be any different than most 914's.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Aug 30 2005, 08:28 AM

Jeff Hines (sixnotfour) offered to build a new heart for the submarine. It is a stock 2.7, '77 case with Webers. He delivered a beautiful long block and I am in the process of assembling and installing. Goal is to autocross on 9/11.
Only problem, I don't want to get it dirty!


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Aug 30 2005, 08:29 AM

Ain't it pretty!


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Posted by: goose2 Aug 30 2005, 09:41 AM

beautiful Jim...and Jeff

Posted by: Rough_Rider Aug 30 2005, 10:36 AM

Looking very sweet there Jim, hey if you need a hand shout.

Would be great to have her at the AX.. Oeerr.

Posted by: brant Aug 30 2005, 03:37 PM

Jim,

you have any interest in selling the wet webbers?

(still looking for some type of carbs for a project)

brant

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Aug 30 2005, 03:53 PM

The wet carbs are Zeniths. Sorry

Posted by: brant Aug 30 2005, 03:55 PM

wanna sell the zenniths?

I don't have any carbs for my project.

brant

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Sep 2 2005, 07:54 PM

After a little time off (wife thinks we should do things other than work on the car!) I got all the stuff attached and put her in today.
With JP's jack and my lift it was a cake walk. Here is the whole enchilada...........


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Sep 2 2005, 07:55 PM

Ready to drop the car on it.........


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Sep 2 2005, 07:55 PM

Going down............


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Sep 2 2005, 07:56 PM

Where'd it go.........


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Sep 2 2005, 07:58 PM

There it is..........
Hope to light the fire Sunday or Monday if I can get JP over here to hold my hand. Next autocross is week from Sunday.


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Posted by: Headrage Sep 2 2005, 08:33 PM

It's gonna live and breathe again.....

Posted by: goose2 Sep 2 2005, 09:51 PM

Posted by: Eric Taylor Sep 2 2005, 11:57 PM

Jim that is so pretty I'm beyond jealous . We need to have an oregon get together to oggle cars.
Eric

Posted by: redshift Sep 3 2005, 12:00 AM

Your LE is really going to Can-Am! WHOOHOOO!

Cam-An.. Can-Ma.. WHATEVER! RAWK!


M

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 3 2005, 09:40 AM

boner!! Ohh, that was wonderfull.

k

Posted by: J P Stein Sep 5 2005, 07:48 PM

and it runs, too...

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Sep 5 2005, 08:12 PM

Here's proof.........note the car is now pointed in the opposite direction.
JP came over today. First problem: solenoid refused to engage the starter. Certified starter repair technician Stein took it apart and put it together again. We have spin!
It fired almost immediately. After 15-20 minutes and much carb tweaking we were off for a brief drive. Handles well and has lots of power, though 5000 rpm was max.
Brakes aren't right (right rear wheel was too hot to touch when we got home) and some electrical problems to solve along with a small oil leak. Leak may be oil temp sender (I hope!). Still possible to make the starting line next Sunday but not sure yet. Since JP is unemployed he may get to come back again.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Sep 5 2005, 08:13 PM

forgot the proof


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Posted by: J P Stein Sep 5 2005, 08:59 PM

Workin' for you, I'm under employed ....fun stuff, tho.