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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Has anyone ever made a 914/8 clone?
Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 16 2020, 10:09 AM
I have seen a few tribute GT cars that are great, but you all know me. I really love doing the obscure.
I have access to some aircraft cases and was thinking about taking 2 IO540s and adding another bank of pistons to one. Yes machining the cases, welding it all up and same with the crank. Wouldn't be cheap, or easy. But if I could make the motor, I could do the rest.
Anyone know what the displacement was ?
Or any other specs
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Posted by: Beebo Kanelle Jan 16 2020, 10:16 AM
3 liters... 300bhp
Although I believe there was also a 2.1 liter turbocharged version that had approx 4-500 bhp
But I could be wrong.
Posted by: AZBanks Jan 16 2020, 10:18 AM
You're insane!
I like it.
Posted by: mepstein Jan 16 2020, 10:45 AM
It was the 908 race engine and 908 trans. Since the 908 was already mid engined, it fit really well - once Porsche moved the trunk firewall. Using an aircraft engine will be more work than Porsche had to do since you have to fit everything around the engine, adapt a trans, clutch, headers, etc. and then you don’t really see anything in a 914 engine bay.
I do want to do a silver 914-8 tribute but just exterior and interior. I’ll be happy with a six in the engine bay.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2020, 11:01 AM
No, but it has been done with VW engines. In fact IIRC young Emerson Fittipaldi did this when he was still an up and comer racer in Brazil.
Why I say no is because aircraft and automotive engines are very different. Aircraft engines spin at slow speeds, 3000rpm redline, where they make the HP is with very long strokes and big pistons, 0-540 is 130.2 piston X 111.1mm stroke.
Automotive engines use much smaller bore and stroke, and a higher 6000 and up RPM, in the case of the 908, 85mm bore X 66mm stroke with a peak power of 370hp at 8400rpm.
It would be easier to weld two VW T1 engines together and then use SCAT split port heads.
But then the engine is too freaking long...and for the coin you spend on custom machining you could likely have a real nice /6 conversion.
Posted by: GregAmy Jan 16 2020, 11:07 AM
The IO-540 was designed with a redline of 2700 RPM. Not only are you talking about welding in a case and crankshaft, but also completely redesigning the engine from the inside out.
So, yeah, you're off your rocker. 
You're *far* better off trying to find an actual 908 engine...
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2020, 11:13 AM
Emerson Fittipaldi, flat 8 VW engine.
https://jalopnik.com/emerson-fittipaldis-double-engined-volkswagen-beetle-5799726
Edit: correction, I was a bit off, this was two engines coupled together.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2020, 11:20 AM
Here you go 
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4389012
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 16 2020, 11:21 AM
my new favorite pic.... porsche 8cyl
911 based
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Posted by: tomeric914 Jan 16 2020, 11:22 AM
You're *far* better off trying to find an actual 908 engine...
It's interesting though, I never noticed that they had moved the firewall back on the 914-8 until just now. The picture always seemed a bit off but I couldn't put my finger on what was different.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2020, 11:32 AM
The cheapest way to do this would be to use a Tatra V8 air cooled engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao5OF7EXDcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFXDgrLtNWo
Posted by: tomeric914 Jan 16 2020, 11:35 AM
The cheapest way to do this would be to use a Tatra V8 air cooled engine.
Do we have to crank start it every time? Seems about right
Posted by: ClayPerrine Jan 16 2020, 11:36 AM
Emerson Fittipaldi, flat 8 VW engine.
https://jalopnik.com/emerson-fittipaldis-double-engined-volkswagen-beetle-5799726
Edit: correction, I was a bit off, this was two engines coupled together.
Two 2.2 hot rodded VW Beetle engines in a 1100 lb Beetle chassis. 400+ HP and it had a swing axle suspension and DRUM BRAKES!!!!!
And you think I am crazy for building my 4.0L 914. This makes me look like a piker.......
Posted by: ConeDodger Jan 16 2020, 11:46 AM
Just do a really well done V8 conversion. No one will question your sanity except those of us who know you personally. 
as far as the other is concerned, you practically have an in-house machine shop now so... 
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2020, 11:49 AM
The cheapest way to do this would be to use a Tatra V8 air cooled engine.
Do we have to crank start it every time? Seems about right
No they are electric start, but it's a 1930's Czech design, back when the batteries weren't so reliable. There's another YT vid with a guy starting the engine with a tie down strap.
Posted by: GregAmy Jan 16 2020, 11:49 AM
Emerson Fittipaldi, flat 8 VW engine.
Holy cow...!
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2020, 11:53 AM
Just do a really well done V8 conversion. No one will question your sanity except those of us who know you personally.
as far as the other is concerned, you practically have an in-house machine shop now so... I agree, a LS alunimum engine would be my choice, I've been thinking about doing this to a 996.
Posted by: jtprettyman Jan 16 2020, 11:59 AM
Why sell yourself short at 'just' an 8? If you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly.......
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Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2020, 12:06 PM
Why sell yourself short at 'just' an 8? If you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly.......
You might have add a couple feet to the 914 for this...
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 16 2020, 12:10 PM
so much a better engine...
I think the quad headlights would be far out..
the body sure looks tortured in this pic
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Posted by: napasteve Jan 16 2020, 12:26 PM
If you are really thinking about fabbing 2 more cylinders onto an Lycoming IO-540, know that there is an flat 8 Lycoming already; the IO-720. Piper built 148 Comanche 400's using this engine. Hell of a plane.
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 16 2020, 12:50 PM
http://www.914world.com/specs/prototypes.php
As mentioned above already, you can weld together two /4 cases and make it a 4112 ...
Posted by: GregAmy Jan 16 2020, 01:04 PM
If you are really thinking about fabbing 2 more cylinders onto an Lycoming IO-540, know that there is an flat 8 Lycoming already; the IO-720. Piper built 148 Comanche 400's using this engine. Hell of a plane.
Totally forgot about that one. They used it in the Pawnee Brave cropduster, too; bet there's a few of those in salvage yards somewhere...
Posted by: 914forme Jan 16 2020, 01:12 PM
Using the 911 Aluminum case as your base case would be better, independent cylinder heads, you would just need new crank, cams, cam towers, valve covers, gaskets, etc.....
But that puts you are 5.3 liters if you do it right. That is taking the 4.0L engine that is 0.666666666 liters per cylinder and multiplying it by 8.
Yes @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 engine has the number of the beast in ever cylinder. 
I am sure now that Rod Emory is having his 911-4 engines built, the P.N.W. has a bunch of 1 cylinder case halves lying around.
NOT!
Rothsports builds the engine for Rod Emory @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1608
I figure to get the 911-4 engines they put them in a big washing machine and wash them on hot, then transfer in the dryer for top secret number of minutes and it is shrunk to a -4 
Thats how it works for my jeans 
Posted by: Rav914 Jan 16 2020, 01:16 PM
How about a motor from the Ferrari 512BB? It's a flat 12 and makes similar power. Might be easier to find than a 908 motor. What a beast it would be....
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Posted by: SirAndy Jan 16 2020, 01:27 PM
If you go through all the trouble to make a tribute of the 914/8, you gotta use a motor that is based on a Porsche engine.
Otherwise, it's just another conversion ...
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: Bucci Jan 16 2020, 02:09 PM
It was the 908 race engine and 908 trans. Since the 908 was already mid engined, it fit really well - once Porsche moved the trunk firewall. Using an aircraft engine will be more work than Porsche had to do since you have to fit everything around the engine, adapt a trans, clutch, headers, etc. and then you don’t really see anything in a 914 engine bay.
I do want to do a silver 914-8 tribute but just exterior and interior. I’ll be happy with a six in the engine bay.
About 19 years ago I replicated the 914-8 Oil cooler opening when I shoehorned a 3.2 L Motronic motor into my car at home in my garage. As I cut the opening for the oil cooler on the factory sheet metal I was able to break bend a flap of metal backwards to add rigidity and I also was able to retain the factory tow hook underneath the trunk by adding vertical support ribs back onto the bottom of the trunk.
Posted by: mtndawg Jan 16 2020, 02:09 PM
Maybe partner with Emory on an idea like this?
Posted by: porschetub Jan 16 2020, 02:17 PM
Didn't someone in Europe do an 8cyl T4 many years ago ?.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2020, 03:49 PM
Didn't someone in Europe do an 8cyl T4 many years ago ?.
Yes
There's a grainy vid of it on YT drag racing, there're pic's of it, but I don't have time to look. It's a guy in Sweden, 80's or early 90's I think it was in Hot VW's Magazine.
Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 16 2020, 03:57 PM
Emerson Fittipaldi, flat 8 VW engine.
https://jalopnik.com/emerson-fittipaldis-double-engined-volkswagen-beetle-5799726
Edit: correction, I was a bit off, this was two engines coupled together.
The picture appears to be 2 1/2 engines welded together.
That's some special welding.
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 16 2020, 04:22 PM
Didn't someone in Europe do an 8cyl T4 many years ago ?.
Yes
There's a grainy vid of it on YT drag racing, there're pic's of it, but I don't have time to look. It's a guy in Sweden, 80's or early 90's I think it was in Hot VW's Magazine.
https://oppositelock.kinja.com/if-vw-made-aircooled-flat-8s-vid-1637484786
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2020, 04:24 PM
Emerson Fittipaldi, flat 8 VW engine.
https://jalopnik.com/emerson-fittipaldis-double-engined-volkswagen-beetle-5799726
Edit: correction, I was a bit off, this was two engines coupled together.
The picture appears to be 2 1/2 engines welded together.
That's some special welding.
I thought they were welded but that article I posted said they were 2 engines coupled together.
Also said it used weber carbs (IDA
) that would have been fun to sync.
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 16 2020, 04:31 PM
Mueller found it... 
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=250515&view=findpost&p=2155656
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Posted by: IronHillRestorations Jan 16 2020, 04:35 PM
Cool idea, but there's some huge hurdles to overcome.
The 8 cyl engines were dual overhead cam, so welding together two pushrod cases doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Nor does a Lycoming, for reasons cited earlier, ie go through a lot of time, trouble and expense for an engine that'll turn a half the rpm's of a hot rod flat 6.
If you really, really wanted to do that, it would be better to source a real Porsche flat 8, providing you want to trade in your King Air for an engine
Posted by: 914forme Jan 16 2020, 04:53 PM
People in the dirt country couple engines all the time. We make 1000s of HP with them.
Many ways of coupling two engines together and making it work.
Drag racers did it back in the 60s also.
Hell if you want, build it so it looks like it has 8 cylinders and run 6. Most people would never know.
You can make it look it it has a 908 engine, use a program to match the recording via the rev range, and then run a couple of drill motors.
If your going to do it, do it right get a Porsche engine, Or get some hunks of billet a 3D model of a 908 case, and a 5 axis CNC and start making some chips fly. Cylinders and heads are easy. 911 Parts. Model out the cam towers, and all the other odds and ends, CNC away. At that point make it better than it was.
This is not rocket science, real question is how much are you willing to spend to build a tribute car?
In a few months we could 3D print this part out of SS, Ti, Al, CoMo, or an Alloy. It just takes some time and a Direct Metal Laser Sintering machine large enough to make the parts. You can then go back and machine final finishes for bearing seats, etc... Cranks I would use Billet, not sure I am trueing DMLS on these parts. Cams would be the same.
I will gladly do it for you, just need the seed money and we will start the build process, I have seen some dumber things get funded with much less likely chance of being produced. Heck I have a chassis right here to start with, how close of a tribute do you want?
Posted by: eeyore Jan 16 2020, 05:18 PM
Would it be easier to have Miles (Redshift) dust off his patented Break In and Bust Out B plan and alter it to sneak into the Porsche museum and snag the engine from the real thing?
Posted by: targa72e Jan 17 2020, 12:27 AM
totally possible just takes $$$. You could work with one of these guys that are producing new 911 cases.
https://www.taorminaracingdesigns.com/
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/956309-mag-case-porsche-historic-racing-7.html
Both are making new cases one is focused on 2.0 the other 3.6. CNC out of billet is only a cad file away.
Marine crank could make the crankshaft.
heads would be easy as the are individual standard 911
Weld up some cam towers
special cams.
All possible
John
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 17 2020, 07:40 AM
100% Billet 12,500 Noonan
https://noonanrace.com/pages/contact-us
https://www.facebook.com/NoonanRaceEngineering/videos/429072154492193/
Posted by: mb911 Jan 17 2020, 07:58 AM
Best solution is 2 polo motors coupled.. Any GA lycoming is not a good solution.. Just designed around low rpm high TQ.
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 17 2020, 08:38 AM
Visual Clone, wolf coat on a sheep... quad eyes
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Posted by: tomeric914 Jan 17 2020, 08:52 AM
908 replica engine group buy anyone?
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 17 2020, 11:33 AM
908 replica engine group buy anyone?
Posted by: Chi-town Jan 17 2020, 04:55 PM
the easiest way is a billet block, custom extended crank and cams. Fab up an intake and exhaust and you're ready to go.
Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 18 2020, 07:48 AM
I really like that IO-720 but the price 
You would still need to shorten the stroke to increase.the RPM range. Welding a Porsche case would be way cheaper. You could use the 720 crank throw positioning as the start to have a crank machined. Same with the cam lobe positioning.
The case is the easy part. It's the crank and cam that pose the challenge.
Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 18 2020, 10:01 AM
Best solution is 2 polo motors coupled.. Any GA lycoming is not a good solution.. Just designed around low rpm high TQ.
What you all are missing is the motor as an aircraft engine is set up for low rpm. While the displacement is large for the pistons. The rpm is a function of crank rod and cam. The case makes no real difference it’s just that. Lubrication would have to be addressed also. But from a cost standpoint the T2 case will be cheaper, probably a better candidate. Still, as Andy said. Unless you make the 8 at least as close as you can to factory, why bother?
Posted by: GeorgeRud Jan 18 2020, 11:26 AM
Give Polo a call, maybe he wants a project to bookend with his beautiful motor!
Posted by: DaveO90s4 Jan 18 2020, 04:37 PM
Front 2/3rds of a Corvair case and rear 2/3rds of a Corvair case would make a flat fan c. 4 litre horizontally opposed 8 cylinder engine. Corvair cases are cheap c.f Porsche cases.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Jan 18 2020, 05:00 PM
I really like that IO-720 but the price
You would still need to shorten the stroke to increase.the RPM range. Welding a Porsche case would be way cheaper. You could use the 720 crank throw positioning as the start to have a crank machined. Same with the cam lobe positioning.
The case is the easy part. It's the crank and cam that pose the challenge.
Rick,
I disagree.... the crank would be the easy part, just time consuming. Get a bunch of 911 cranks, and machine them into pieces that can be bolted together to make any firing order you want. I would use the late 908 firing order. The early one had problems with third order harmonics.
The cases would be harder. You have to cut two cases and weld the two half cases together. You need to put little alignment sleeves in all the oil galleries to keep them aligned. And you have to use 3.0 SC cases or newer to make them. Welding magnesium cases frightens me.
You also have to extend the cam carriers like you did for the case. Then, to make the cams, you get two pairs, of cams, cut up into pieces. Assemble and time the front lobes, then add the next one back, time it, and tack weld it. Do the same until each cylinder is timed, and the cam is tack welded. Pull it apart, then finish weld the cams, or send them off to be duplicated as a solid cam.
Sounds easy.
Posted by: mb911 Jan 18 2020, 05:02 PM
Best solution is 2 polo motors coupled.. Any GA lycoming is not a good solution.. Just designed around low rpm high TQ.
What you all are missing is the motor as an aircraft engine is set up for low rpm. While the displacement is large for the pistons. The rpm is a function of crank rod and cam. The case makes no real difference it’s just that. Lubrication would have to be addressed also. But from a cost standpoint the T2 case will be cheaper, probably a better candidate. Still, as Andy said. Unless you make the 8 at least as close as you can to factory, why bother?
Totally get it. My former life as and aircraft engine rebuilder helped me to get a really good understanding of the limitations..
Your right on though..
Posted by: 914forme Jan 18 2020, 07:08 PM
None of this is hard, not the case, not the crank, cams, cam towers, etc... It just takes serious $$$$ to do one off parts.
Hell you could 3D print all this stuff in PLA and sand cast it.
Again very doable, but my friends with serious money are not into 914s. And they would not drop a dime on this project. So you have to find a combination. Someone who loves 914s, and the 914-8 specifically, and the monetary means to pull this project off.
Engineering and building wise, is the easiest part of the build.
But @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3348 I am currently not happy with you. I find that my spare time now has been spent figuring out how to do this. 
I don't need another project in my head right now. I have about 5 of them that have been designed and ready in my head. 914-6 restomod. 914 EG conversion. an AWD Karmann Ghia with Subaru Power. A Dual cab AWD Subaru power. A Willys Pickup with X-drive and a N54 swap. And now a 914-8 with a working 3.0L 8 cylinder, making about 400HP. This does not include all the machine tools, and workshop projects I have yet to build.
But the one that is kicking me right now is transmission. So many choices beside 908 box.
I should have stuck with building scale models, so much cheaper, and I could have all these cool car ideas that as of right now, I can not afford but a couple.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Jan 19 2020, 12:15 AM
None of this is hard, not the case, not the crank, cams, cam towers, etc... It just takes serious $$$$ to do one off parts.
Hell you could 3D print all this stuff in PLA and sand cast it.
Again very doable, but my friends with serious money are not into 914s. And they would not drop a dime on this project. So you have to find a combination. Someone who loves 914s, and the 914-8 specifically, and the monetary means to pull this project off.
Engineering and building wise, is the easiest part of the build.
But @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3348 I am currently not happy with you.
I find that my spare time now has been spent figuring out how to do this. I don't need another project in my head right now. I have about 5 of them that have been designed and ready in my head. 914-6 restomod. 914 EG conversion. an AWD Karmann Ghia with Subaru Power. A Dual cab AWD Subaru power. A Willys Pickup with X-drive and a N54 swap. And now a 914-8 with a working 3.0L 8 cylinder, making about 400HP. This does not include all the machine tools, and workshop projects I have yet to build.But the one that is kicking me right now is transmission. So many choices beside 908 box.
I should have stuck with building scale models, so much cheaper, and I could have all these cool car ideas that as of right now, I can not afford but a couple.
Let me add one to your list that has been in my head for a long time.
A W12 VW Phaeton engine and Boxster/Cayman six speed transmission in a 914.
The engine and trans share a common bolt pattern for the bell housing, the clutch parts from the Cayman should work. Maybe need a custom flywheel. Fitment should be no problem as engine is actually shorter than a 911 six cylinder. Put a Cayman rear suspension under it. Use a V-8 radiator kit. Aftermarket EFI.
Then you can have a real 914-12.
Posted by: 73-914 Jan 19 2020, 06:40 AM
None of this is hard, not the case, not the crank, cams, cam towers, etc... It just takes serious $$$$ to do one off parts.
Hell you could 3D print all this stuff in PLA and sand cast it.
Again very doable, but my friends with serious money are not into 914s. And they would not drop a dime on this project. So you have to find a combination. Someone who loves 914s, and the 914-8 specifically, and the monetary means to pull this project off.
Engineering and building wise, is the easiest part of the build.
But @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3348 I am currently not happy with you.
I find that my spare time now has been spent figuring out how to do this. I don't need another project in my head right now. I have about 5 of them that have been designed and ready in my head. 914-6 restomod. 914 EG conversion. an AWD Karmann Ghia with Subaru Power. A Dual cab AWD Subaru power. A Willys Pickup with X-drive and a N54 swap. And now a 914-8 with a working 3.0L 8 cylinder, making about 400HP. This does not include all the machine tools, and workshop projects I have yet to build.But the one that is kicking me right now is transmission. So many choices beside 908 box.
I should have stuck with building scale models, so much cheaper, and I could have all these cool car ideas that as of right now, I can not afford but a couple.
Let me add one to your list that has been in my head for a long time.
A W12 VW Phaeton engine and Boxster/Cayman six speed transmission in a 914.
The engine and trans share a common bolt pattern for the bell housing, the clutch parts from the Cayman should work. Maybe need a custom flywheel. Fitment should be no problem as engine is actually shorter than a 911 six cylinder. Put a Cayman rear suspension under it. Use a V-8 radiator kit. Aftermarket EFI.
Then you can have a real 914-12.
I like it The W8 would be a good fit also
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 19 2020, 07:44 AM
None of this is hard, not the case, not the crank, cams, cam towers, etc... It just takes serious $$$$ to do one off parts.
Hell you could 3D print all this stuff in PLA and sand cast it.
Ask Catorse how much he has into the tooling for new 3.6 cases. I think it's north of quarter mil.
Also ask him how "easy" it was to do.
https://www.taorminaracingdesigns.com/product/taormina-racing-3-6-flat-6-engine-case/
Posted by: 914forme Jan 19 2020, 08:08 AM
Easy, and he is building for a market. This would be a one off.
Okay well if it goes like a 906 windshield, I will have to make 10 to get the one I need.
The W12 - W8 engines are an interesting piece of engineering, never got to the point of wanting to swap them in anything.
And I keep coming back to if I am building a 914 with all the comforts, and handling of a Cayman, then why not just build the Cayman. It is a really awesome chassis.
W12 Cayman
Posted by: ClayPerrine Jan 19 2020, 09:32 AM
Easy, and he is building for a market. This would be a one off.Okay well if it goes like a 906 windshield, I will have to make 10 to get the one I need.
The W12 - W8 engines are an interesting piece of engineering, never got to the point of wanting to swap them in anything.
And I keep coming back to if I am building a 914 with all the comforts, and handling of a Cayman, then why not just build the Cayman. It is a really awesome chassis.
W12 Cayman
The only reason the W-12 idea has not already been done is they are hard to find.
Clay
Posted by: 914forme Jan 19 2020, 09:54 AM
Just to keep this going 
Posted by: 914forme Jan 19 2020, 09:57 AM
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Volkswagen-Phaeton-d203#listing=250847201
Posted by: Detroit Jan 19 2020, 11:49 AM
As someone who designs engines for a living, I'd have to say, "Yes, you are off your rocker." Unless, of course, money has no meaning to you.
That said, IF you have the ability to build the cast tooling yourself, it might not be a mortgage your house endeavor. And at that point you may even create a bit of a market for a '908 build kit' for guys considering -6 conversions or building 904 replicas...
Because let's face it, why would you go through all the effort for a 911 soundtrack when you could listen to something closer to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eee2d9oknyM
Posted by: tomeric914 Jan 19 2020, 12:32 PM
W12 Cayman
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 I'm not happy with you for that idea like you're not happy with @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3348
jerk
Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 19 2020, 02:45 PM
Yes I have the capability to make my own tooling. I do enjoy challenges. Don’t want to take too much away from making new parts, but this is probably a 3 yr project for me. I don’t know if you call it a form of ADHD, but I tend to focus on multiple problems at once. I tend to actually enjoy it.
Posted by: 914werke Jan 19 2020, 02:45 PM
That is why Electrics racing will always be lacking ....the auditory orgasm
Posted by: Detroit Jan 19 2020, 04:00 PM
Dude, if you've got the ability and facilities to build your own tooling, the desire to do it, AND the time to do it, then please take this project on! No doubt you'd receive plenty of moral support from the Porsche community, myself included. I'm even tempted to offer help creating the math...
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Jan 19 2020, 04:11 PM
Why not ask the factory if they still have the tooling & molds? Be easier to do with a super organized group buy Also, it's OEM
Posted by: mb911 Jan 19 2020, 04:26 PM
Lets be honest here.. Catorce spent 1 mil on his project.. The 5 axis cnc was 350k alone.. Not including tooling,a building, staff, then designs and prototyping. I have spoken to Adam a few times as he is a huge 914 fan.. It would likely be easier to team up with him as he is 3/4 of the way there.. He has the machining and molds handled now to add 2 more cylinders..
Posted by: Superhawk996 Jan 19 2020, 04:31 PM
I keep seeing the word easy being thrown around in this thread.
There is no easy button.
Posted by: Chris914n6 Jan 19 2020, 05:38 PM
928 motor with carbs. Not perfect but it's a tribute not a clone.
Or 2 Corvair motors if that hasn't been mentioned. The fan is in the right place 
Posted by: 914forme Jan 19 2020, 05:40 PM
"Easy" in the way that it can be done with out inventing a new form manufacturing or other item.
"Easy" by me is never meant to imply it will not take work, and time. It is meant more as this is not like trying we are trying to control particles and move billions of atoms across a time space continuum.
It will cost some serious money, time, and there will be problems, all projects have them. I can see why the term Easy used in the common way like the Staples ad would make you think well minimal effort required. Like anything worth doin, it will requires lots of blood, sweet, and tears.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9101 Your welcome
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 19 2020, 09:19 PM
Both Pauter and Scat build spec cast T-1 (style) aluminum blocks. At least at that point with some engineering, fixtures, tig'ing ; mate the 2 blocks together= a flat 8 block.
Scat also builds custom spec crankshafts at small quantities, and this is welcome news for a venture project like this.
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 19 2020, 09:30 PM
NOONAN does billet cases.......no casting...
Posted by: mepstein Jan 19 2020, 09:55 PM
Ok, the factory car has a 908 engine and trans. That’s really cool. The rest of the car is sort of ugly and only cool because Porsche built it. So say you made some sort of Frankenstein air cooled 8, got a 914 trans to fit the longer engine and modified a normal 914 to look like the factory car. Do you end up with something good or just something a 914 guy would find interesting.
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 20 2020, 04:25 AM
Visual Clone, wolf coat on a sheep...
quad eyes
Posted by: Superhawk996 Jan 20 2020, 07:50 AM
Ok, the factory car has a 908 engine and trans. That’s really cool. The rest of the car is sort of ugly and only cool because Porsche built it. So say you made some sort of Frankenstein air cooled 8, got a 914 trans to fit the longer engine and modified a normal 914 to look like the factory car. Do you end up with something good or just something a 914 guy would find interesting.
A lot of time, money, and effort spent to simply get V8 power but with lower Center of Gravity. I guess you get bragging rights sort of the same as this joker below. Sure they did it but its a crap motorcycle if you actually want to ride it don't want to have to start multiple motors to go for a ride or 1/4 mile run and likely get beat by a stock Hayabusa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzx8Y--UNto
The other issues that issues that I haven't seen addressed as part of "easy" is adressing the torsional osciallations of the longer crank for an eight. Sure the factory did 8, 12, and even 16 but they were having a heck of a time with crank torsion and they had real casting, engineering, and development Dyno's at their disposal.
Posted by: mepstein Jan 20 2020, 08:10 AM
Ok, the factory car has a 908 engine and trans. That’s really cool. The rest of the car is sort of ugly and only cool because Porsche built it. So say you made some sort of Frankenstein air cooled 8, got a 914 trans to fit the longer engine and modified a normal 914 to look like the factory car. Do you end up with something good or just something a 914 guy would find interesting.
A lot of time, money, and effort spent to simply get V8 power but with lower Center of Gravity. I guess you get bragging rights sort of the same as this joker below. Sure they did it but its a crap motorcycle if you actually want to ride it don't want to have to start multiple motors to go for a ride or 1/4 mile run and likely get beat by a stock Hayabusa.
At least the motorcycle is a good ad for the engine brand. Any engine in a 914 is pretty much hidden away. You see some carbs, a fiberglass shroud and that's about it.
Posted by: GregAmy Jan 20 2020, 08:22 AM
I'm still fascinated about how the conversation may have gone...
"Ok, so we have this new chassis...and we're tossing a VW Bus engine in it??"
"Yup" [in German, translated]
"Seems like something better should go in there...what about that 911 engine?"
"Cool" [also in German, translated]
"Wait...isn't Franz working on that new 3L FIA Group 6 engine...?"
"Here, hold my bier" [natch]
Posted by: Chi-town Jan 20 2020, 10:08 AM
We can philosophize all day long but the most realistic idea would to be to call Noonan and see how much to add 2 cylinders to the design.
https://noonanrace.com/products/911-porsche-case
Call Arrows and have the custom crank made
http://arrowprecision.com/pages/crank-shafts
Call Webb Cams and have cams made
http://www.webcamshafts.com/
Call AT Power and have an Intake and throttle body set up made
https://www.atpower.com/porsche-products
Then drag it to Marty @ MSDS or Burns stainless to have custom headers made.
Posted by: mb911 Jan 20 2020, 10:22 AM
I would love to do a setup for the 8.. 
Posted by: Jett Jan 20 2020, 10:39 AM
Easy, and he is building for a market. This would be a one off.Okay well if it goes like a 906 windshield, I will have to make 10 to get the one I need.
The W12 - W8 engines are an interesting piece of engineering, never got to the point of wanting to swap them in anything.
And I keep coming back to if I am building a 914 with all the comforts, and handling of a Cayman, then why not just build the Cayman. It is a really awesome chassis.
W12 Cayman
The only reason the W-12 idea has not already been done is they are hard to find.
Clay
Phaeton’s are not hard to find, there is one local for under $15K... no idea what to do with the rest of the car.
Posted by: Al Meredith Jan 20 2020, 10:52 AM
I was at Chuck Becks house for a Christmas party about 8 years ago and there on the garage floor was a 4 cylinder 911 engine. He was telling us (talk about a bench racing session) about he was protested for running a 2.0L 911 engine in a racing 914 because it was not a 4 cylinder . He said the rules only said 2 liters . So he cut down a 6 case to 4 cylinder 2.0 L 911 engine . I think he told me that Scat charged $5000 for a crank. He also had a 12 cylinder engine there which he built a motorcycle around . You can see that bike on J. Lano I think
Posted by: Mueller Jan 20 2020, 11:03 AM
The crank wouldn't be that difficult, you can have one machined from billet steel. Less than $5K.
Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 20 2020, 11:40 AM
NOONAN does billet cases.......no casting...
I had not thought of this. Seems like a better route. I have access to a 6 axis machine, so may be the way to go.
Mark
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