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Posted by: Tdskip Jan 17 2020, 07:47 PM

First time dropping a 914 engine and it was pretty straightforward, but then again I had a lift.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 17 2020, 07:48 PM

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 17 2020, 07:49 PM

Sequence is kind of off but....

Posted by: Chi-town Jan 17 2020, 07:50 PM

Not a bad looking setup

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 17 2020, 08:14 PM

Go till She Blows....

Posted by: 914werke Jan 17 2020, 08:49 PM

Crazy! (someone rotate Toms Pics )

Posted by: ndfrigi Jan 18 2020, 01:26 AM

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 18 2020, 11:33 AM

Alas, not going in today

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 18 2020, 12:13 PM

Better view of the turbo – it’s pretty cool how this was done.

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 18 2020, 12:56 PM

There is a lightened flywheel ??....

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 18 2020, 01:04 PM

Good eyes – I had not spotted that and with everything else going on didn’t pick it up seat of the pants.

This thing was pretty built, I am really curious to see what we find when I get the covers off so we get a better view of the heads. It sure felt like it was bigger than a 2 L engine.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 19 2020, 10:50 AM

Good morning guys – focus on getting the replacement engine in and running today, fingers crossed. The removed turbo engine has some interesting bits to it – the lightened flywheel, oil pressure and temperature sensors, cylinder head sensor etc. I could be wrong, but I’m also fairly convinced that it’s a big bore build and has unique heads on it.

It’s going to be a couple weeks before I do anything with it but I’m assuming I should just start disassembling it to see what the hell it actually is and if anything is usable?

Posted by: ndfrigi Jan 19 2020, 11:14 AM

Nice seeing you yesterday Tom! That engine yesterday in your car looks clean and hoping it will run smoothly so you can start enjoying driving your red car.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 19 2020, 12:23 PM

Likewise, and thank you for the exhaust/muffler set up. Already installed and it fits perfectly. Thank you!

This car is a rats nest of wiring – all sorts of stuff going on here but have started stripping everything out that is an absolutely needed and I just got the engine to briefly fire, so making progress. As bad as that is, there are two pushbutton starters on the car and all sorts of funky is going on at the relay board too. Loads of non-Porsche color wires that change colors midway....

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 19 2020, 02:52 PM

New engine is in and everything mechanical is tightened up, just need to get the throttle cable that was in it that was designed to work with the old engine set up to work with the new one.

I am relieved to say that the engine I put in sounds great – idles smoothly, it’s quiet, seems eager to rev. I bought this from a guy who represented that it was built by a shop up in Simi Valley and only had about 3000 miles on it before he put it into a tree.

Posted by: 914Toy Jan 19 2020, 04:08 PM

Hi Tom,

Good to read you are about to be enjoying your red car. Stripping the turbo engine will be interesting to read about what you find

Posted by: mb911 Jan 19 2020, 04:44 PM

Gotta be honest I love that turbo setup.. If I had a 4cyl car it would be a turbo no question.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 19 2020, 06:11 PM

So the good news is I was able to drive the car around the block and it seems healthy, but it’s not as torquey as that engine that you and Forrest help me with Keith @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21596

I also found a goodie I did not know I had!




The bad news is that my test drive was only in 2nd and 4th gears since I need to adjust the shifter.

Before I dive into that could I get eyes on this please? Don’t think this should be much of any of the white plastic showing, should there?

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 19 2020, 06:35 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 trade you for some 914/6 bits!

Posted by: mb911 Jan 19 2020, 06:36 PM

Lol.. Don't have a 4 .. Dad does ..

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 19 2020, 06:44 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 - that is a poor excuse, LOL.

Looks like I messed up the alignment of that shifter cone screw, might be the gear selection issue.

Posted by: KevinW Jan 19 2020, 07:12 PM

I think you have the wrong plastic bushing holder.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 19 2020, 09:27 PM

great catch Kevin, the one in the picture is from an early rear shift 914
it would be at the bulkhead in front of the engine

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 19 2020, 10:16 PM

Good eyes guys, let me swap that out and see where it gets me.

Thanks!

Posted by: 914Toy Jan 20 2020, 10:13 AM

Tom, perhaps you already know, but if I see it correctly, you have too much play between the shift rod and the white plastic bushing. If so, there is much shifting improvement available from improving this fitment.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 20 2020, 10:14 AM

Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21596 , got some help on that to know it needs to be addressed.

Thanks!

Posted by: Chi-town Jan 20 2020, 10:27 AM

Yep, that's a tail shift selector cup.

If you need a side shift one let me know I have many.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 21 2020, 11:34 AM

OK - this looks a bit better.

Thanks to all who spotted this!

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jan 21 2020, 01:44 PM

There are two different connectors for the cup bushings. The one in your picture is for an early 911 or 914, and is used under the shifter. The other one is longer, and is used with the side shift console. You have the wrong one in there.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 21 2020, 02:32 PM

Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143

That was how it came to me, fixed it now. Too a coupe tries to align the shifter but I am back on the road.

So far so good but I have a bad flat spot on the dual carbs when I give it gas from lower RPM, but I can deal with that later.

Thanks for all of the help and PMs gentlemen!

Posted by: ndfrigi Jan 21 2020, 05:08 PM

Good job Tom! Now maybe just need carb rebuild or just tuning.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 21 2020, 05:24 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13474 - thanks again for the help and muffler/exhaust.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 13 2020, 10:28 PM

I wanted to follow up on several requests for pictures of the mystery engine after he tin has been removed.

Anyone recognize these bits?

Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 14 2020, 09:22 AM

All I can say is Wow - - thats crazy!

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 14 2020, 09:33 AM

Going to pull that side head off and start measuring.

Any bets on how big the jugs are.

Posted by: 914werke Mar 14 2020, 11:25 AM

Are those jugs Alum?

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 15 2020, 06:53 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=453 - well what do you know, just check with a magnet and they the are aluminum.

I am happy about that, correct?

Posted by: preach Mar 15 2020, 07:36 PM

Why a "6" on the jug?

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 15 2020, 07:37 PM

Maybe 911?

No idea otherwise.

Posted by: Brett W Mar 15 2020, 08:05 PM

Could be some Biral cylinders. Probably an iron sleeve pressed into an aluminum cylinder then fins are cut onto the perimeter. 911s used them l ow power applications, maybe slightly better than raw cast iron, but no where near as good as Nickies.

All of the welding on the head is interesting, not exactly sure what they were going to achieve with it. Look forward to more pictures.

Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Mar 15 2020, 08:12 PM

I see 3-4

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 15 2020, 08:14 PM

Oops - the stamping is a bit off. Looks like a 6 in the picture but in person is a 3.

Good eyes guys.

Any see anything interesting here?

Posted by: davep Mar 15 2020, 09:26 PM

solid spacers, maybe 911 elephant foot adjusters, not stock springs from the color of them, rockers appear to have multiple shims.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 15 2020, 09:34 PM

Thanks - there were a ton of shins in there.

Pushrods has RTV on them - not awesome.

Once all of the cylinders head bolts are off the head should just pull off, correct? My guess is that it ain’t too uncommon for them to get stuck from heat cycling?

Posted by: Krieger Mar 15 2020, 11:09 PM

I wonder if those are water cooled Vanagan heads? They don't look welded, but more like opened up to allow air flow in.

Posted by: VaccaRabite Mar 16 2020, 05:53 AM

T4 Aircraft parts?

Zach

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 16 2020, 05:56 AM

Good morning gentlemen.

The heads have been trimmed in some areas, will better document once I get the head off.

Given that the cylinders are aluminum I am trying to avoid wedging anything between them and the head to lever it off.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 16 2020, 06:36 AM

Is this the turbo engine? 5th head stud mod is what some guys did to try and keep the heads sealed.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 16 2020, 06:41 AM

Good morning Mark, it is.

Am I missing releasing a stud? Let me check again.

We are sooooo close to seeing what the heck this thing is!

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 16 2020, 06:51 AM

The head has a 5th stud nut inline with the spark plug, about the place a regular head's plug would be. Makes for 10 studs per side instead of the regular 8. I think they are heavily modified and welded stock heads.

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 16 2020, 06:54 AM

The cylinders could be very early EMW nickasil.

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 16 2020, 07:09 AM

6 stud, this guy ? check behind rocker shaft..
http://markstephenshighperformance.com/

Posted by: Brett W Mar 16 2020, 07:52 AM

Wow, Stephens is still in business all these years later? Interesting.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 16 2020, 07:59 AM

Thanks gentlemen, let me go look again. Have some penetrating oil on the area where the studs pass through the head.

Is there a chance the cylinders are re-usable?

Posted by: 914werke Mar 16 2020, 10:11 AM

Dont for get the under cylinder tin that is held by a 4-5mm bolt to the heads. But considering how wacky this build is not sure they are still there.

Posted by: 914werke Mar 16 2020, 10:17 AM

Id say more like, frightening! IMO steer clear of these guys they are in a class of Motormiester & GEX! No, he closed his doors of the shop he had in Tahachapi some 20 years ago.
I was unaware he started up again, probably because the statute of limitations had elapsed for all the folks trying to sue him. https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=14

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 16 2020, 10:35 AM

I did not know that, let me make sure there’s nothing under there. I’ve been reluctant to get aggressive on removing it, will keep poking around and not force anything until you guys tell me it’s BFH time.

Thanks!

Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 16 2020, 11:35 AM

The numbers on the cylinders are backwards. The right rear cylinder on a 914-4 engine is #3.

Do you have a picture of the bottom of the heads?

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 16 2020, 02:07 PM

I don’t but will get one and post it tonight. Thanks for the response Cue

Posted by: Brett W Mar 16 2020, 07:15 PM

Stephens did my heads and supplied my pistons and cylinders back in the late 90s. He did what he did, I didn't know a lot better back then, but we straightened the cylinders and cut the bottoms. It worked out in the end, but apparently I got lucky.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 16 2020, 07:27 PM

Glad you did!

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 16 2020, 08:05 PM

Is this the bolt @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=453 ?



I had to cut the exhaust off, those exhaust manifold bolts weren’t moving.

Posted by: 914werke Mar 16 2020, 08:19 PM

Bingo. unless removed those heads arent coming off

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 16 2020, 09:39 PM

Thanks, removed but still not budging.

Found two more bolts - under the push rod tubes. Need to figure out how to remove those now...

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 16 2020, 10:09 PM

The pushrod tubes just twist out I believe.

Check out the goop

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 17 2020, 09:11 AM

If the head are really stuck on in the past I made an spark plug adapter and hooked a hydraulic power pack (tractor, wood splitter, car lift, etc) and it popped the head right off.

Did this on a 36hp engine with fairly high value okrasa heads and it worked good, but it's a bit messy if you miss the waste oil bucket.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 17 2020, 09:37 AM

Good idea. I like it!

Could the same thing be done with air pressure? 100 psi into two 100mm pistons/head chambers is 2400 lbs of force. Each cylinder contributing ~1200 lbs of force.

Seems like that would be plenty without the need to resort to hydraulics that would increase the force by an order of magnitude (x10) using 1000psi hydrualic pressure. Would be cleaner w/o risk of dumping oil.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 17 2020, 09:39 AM

Always amazes me. Mo goop = mo better sealing or so the logic goes.

Posted by: rbzymek Mar 17 2020, 12:55 PM

Superhawk,
I would not use air pressure because the head and cylinder would launch like a cannon when it let go.....unlike hydraulic fluid.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 17 2020, 01:10 PM

Got 3 of the 4 tubes out, they were really stuck in there.

Once the last one is out I can get to the plate that is blocking access to the remaining two bolts.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 17 2020, 01:31 PM

Good point. Love the collective wisdom of the forum!

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 17 2020, 01:36 PM

pauter T1 ? simular fins


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 17 2020, 09:09 PM

Hopefully I’ll have at least one of the cylinders off tomorrow and I will look for markings and take measurements etc. I’m always amazed at how much you guys know about these and related engines

Thanks

Posted by: Tbrown4x4 Mar 18 2020, 05:03 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2744 might have it nailed. One of your pictures looks like there is an extra head stud where the Pauter's are.

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 18 2020, 06:43 AM

Does it have 5 studs or 6 per cylinder?

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 18 2020, 10:44 AM

Check me on this but I count five.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 18 2020, 12:54 PM

Oops - 6 stud.

And BIG. Micrometer said 104mm piston bore.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 18 2020, 12:56 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21596 - Keith, your seat of the pants feel (as a passenger no less) for how much torque the car had was right.

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 18 2020, 02:10 PM

Alot of thought/theory/work went into those heads..

Posted by: jd74914 Mar 18 2020, 03:29 PM

Very interesting...

Surprised they stayed single plug with all of that work and huge bore.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 18 2020, 05:38 PM

I don’t have an eye for good versus bad on 914 heads. Could these be reusable or would it be smarter to go with a more standard genuine Porsche to eat her head that’s been ported etc.?

My immediate thought is the more standard the better, and if that’s the case then what do I do with these besides turning it into giant paperweights?

Thanks for everyone’s eyes on this rather interesting build, hopefully the process of taking it apart to figure out what it is has been fun for other members here.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 18 2020, 05:40 PM

That was awesome! Thanks for posting all the photos!

Posted by: jd74914 Mar 19 2020, 01:18 AM

This is very neat to see! Thanks for posting all of the pictures!

Its not really a matter of good vs. bad; these are very unique and made to work as a full engine combo. I would write off rebuilding this thing as a normal motor though. You’d be ahead of the game just working with something stock if standard is your goal. The cost here to change heads you be huge, everything has been made to work with different cylinders and likely there is a bunch more custom on the bottom end (besides the extra studs). It’s interesting to see they still used copper head gaskets. You might think with all of this work you’d see fire rings or something different.

I’m getting the distinct impression you just want to make a normal T4 out of this; that’s really be a shame since someone very clearly put hundreds of hours into building this thing. If that’s your goal I’d put it in some classifieds for trade of a more stock engine to build from.

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 19 2020, 04:54 AM

Hard to tell with the grime in the pic, are the cylinders biral or nickasil?
Inside cylinder, hard magnetic pull is biral, but very slight magnetic pull is nikasil.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 19 2020, 06:49 AM

Good morning - thanks for the detailed response.

I'm not really sure what I am going to do with this - mainly following up on a promise to pull it apart so we can collectively figure out what the heck it is. Think of it as 914 archeology.

To be fully transparent I am also using this to learn about custom engine builds and how it all has to come together. I've been itching to dig into an engine as it's one of the relatively few things I haven't done on the various vintage cars I've had.

My question about the heads mainly was oriented around using 2L heads as a starting point for a big bore build - the heads on this were kind of a paint to live with as they had weird spark plug angles and you had to pull the intake manifolds to remove the plugs (which made tune up and compression testing etc a certain amount of brain damage).

Good coaching however, and very much appreciated.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 19 2020, 06:53 AM

Good morning Mark - thanks for the expertise.

I got a hard magnetic pull, I tested with one of those dropped bolt magnetic wands and it firmly attached with strong pull.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 19 2020, 09:53 AM

Pistons off. You can still see the cross hatching in the bore, didn’t expect to see that.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 19 2020, 09:54 AM

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 22 2020, 11:11 AM

Anyone familiar with these wrist pins?

Happy Sunday all.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 24 2020, 12:16 PM

Huh - these just slide right out. Was not expecting that.

Pistons are stamped TRW.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 24 2020, 01:42 PM

Yikes! Looks like I had a three cylinder - the driver side front rocker assembly was totally loose.

Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Mar 24 2020, 03:26 PM

That's not good.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 24 2020, 04:43 PM

I so love this setup.. Someday I will build a type 4 turbo 914

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 24 2020, 08:02 PM

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 24 2020, 08:03 PM

No no no Ben, you need to build a turbo 2.3l that was seemingly put together with a gallon of RTV. Then you’d be living...

Hope you are doing OK up there.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 24 2020, 08:16 PM

Things are ok here.. Feeling like I am legend at the moment..

Still think it would be fun to build that engine correctly

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 24 2020, 08:57 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 - I think I am going to tear it completely apart and then build it as a normally aspirated engine. External cooler oil cooler and sensible build - then plan to do it all over again in 30k?

Posted by: barefoot Mar 25 2020, 06:32 AM

TRW made forged pistons for OEM V-8's back in the day, I'd used 11:1's for my Chevy small block build back then. Good stuff !!

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 25 2020, 07:19 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=15673 - thanks for the response and info. I'll put these in the "save" pile then.

Time to start getting into how this thing was set up, started a related thread on

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=344269

Thanks gentlemen.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 25 2020, 09:46 AM

Look at this weird welding on the center of the heads in between the exhaust manifold.

Posted by: Rand Mar 25 2020, 09:59 AM

Fix the real problem: Teach the poster which side of his phone is up.

Posted by: poorsche914 Mar 25 2020, 10:04 AM

It's the forum programming... not the photographer or camera.
Click on the image and it will enlarge AND be properly rotated.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 25 2020, 10:06 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 - It's off the car and on the floor - the rotation is correct as it is the best way to show the interesting thing the PO did.

Posted by: Brett W Mar 25 2020, 03:56 PM

Back in the day, when guys were drag racing with a lot of boost they would find these heads would FLEX A LOT. To Stop that heads gained studs, gained welded reinforcements, etc. Problem couldn't be fixed.

I talked to a guy who drag raced a Beetle with a built T4 engine. Don't remember his name, but he ran stock based heads for several years. He would have to re-lash the valves after every run and pull the heads off every weekend to make sure they will OK. He switched to Pauter heads and he could run the whole weekend without making changes or even removing the valve covers.

Those heads need to be flow tested and checked for integrity. Once they are fixed and signed off with a clean bill of health, slap them on a 10:1 engine and let her rip. Could be a pretty sweet street engine for someone, but its not worth trying to boost a Type 4 with stock based parts. They aren't strong enough. The Germans couldn't even be bothered to add the proper number of bearings to support the crank.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 26 2020, 10:31 AM

Just tried to measure stroke by measuring the total distance the connecting rod moves during a revolution and it looks like 82.5mm. I used a tape measure so I don't view this as super precise but more indicative.

That looks about right for a 2.3L build?

Good morning and thanks in advance for the thoughts and experience.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 26 2020, 10:56 AM

Holy cow - I may have done this wrong but if I take my measured bore and stroke and assume a safe deck height this thing calculates out to be a 2.7L engine.

Posted by: jd74914 Mar 26 2020, 12:28 PM

Deck height doesn't matter for engine size-it's swept distance so just bore*bore*PI/4*stroke. 82 mm is a standard stroker crank so that's probably correct. So you do have a 2.7L.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 26 2020, 12:38 PM

Holy cow. I thought that required 6 cylinders

Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1659

That explains the front mounted oil cooler.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 26 2020, 12:52 PM

It doesn't require 6 cylinders, but it sometimes makes for a fragile engine.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 26 2020, 03:20 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 - thanks for the response.

This car has a front mounted oil cooler that is set up just like a 914/6 would, think that is enough to keep it cool or are the piston/jugs retaining heat the blocking issue (generally) on something this size?

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 28 2020, 09:51 AM

Good morning gentlemen-should I finish tearing this down and split the case? Because of the oil pressure being low the case is going to have to be split if it’s going to be rebuilt, so what I’m really asking is should I have a machine shop to that or just carefully do it myself and bag and tag everything?

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 28 2020, 10:04 AM

Blow it up, Bag and Tag....lets see it naked...just make sure you find all the 8mm nuts..

then trade it for a stock 2.0

Posted by: barefoot Mar 28 2020, 12:54 PM

I assume you're savy on tearing it apart. Check the main bearings to see if they're a very tight fit into the journals, If not you'll need a line boring job done and oversize bearings

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 28 2020, 07:25 PM

This is probably great advice but I'm itching to try it and save it... Right now however I'm kind of excited to just take it apart as part of learning how it was put together.

Hope all is well in Utah.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 28 2020, 07:26 PM

Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=15673 . Will continue to give updates on what I find and (might be a while) let you know what the machine shop eventually says.

Hope you are doing well.

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 28 2020, 08:09 PM

Biral cylinders, aluminum cylinder with an iron sleeve.


Teflon buttons, common with VW Type 1 performance and many other engines. Not a fan of them, I'd rather have clips.

I don't recognize the rods, I hope it's not a VW rabbit rod crank, but I don't think it is. In the 80's builders tried to use the smaller journal rabbit job to clear the cam on long strokes. Problem is the smaller rod journals makes the crank too weak.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 28 2020, 08:19 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 - thanks for the info.

I'll keep going, carefully, and document tearing the engine down. It's been fun learning and doing the archeology as I go.

Wish I could have seen this thing actually running back in the day!

Posted by: 914Toy Mar 28 2020, 08:47 PM

Posted by: Rand Mar 30 2020, 03:28 AM

chuckle.

Posted by: Rand Mar 30 2020, 03:31 AM

Or you could teach him which side of the camera is up. He surely got it until technology happened.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 31 2020, 06:17 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 - yep, your superior intellect nailed it. I'm a Luddite, if that is even how you spell it...

Thanks for making the forum a better place.

Posted by: Tdskip Mar 31 2020, 08:13 PM

Anyone know of these dots in the cylinder head, which look drilled, are normall? Purpose? Don’t think these are standard...

Hope everyone had a good day.

Posted by: Tbrown4x4 Apr 1 2020, 04:42 AM

Don't know about the ding in the valve face, but the dimples in the chamber wall are to affect the flow characteristics of the intake charge. Not sure how effective they are in a combustion chamber. I would be worried about carbon buildup in the dimples causing pre-ignition.

BTW, I can't tell if that picture is upside down or not.

Posted by: Tdskip Apr 1 2020, 07:14 AM

Good morning, thanks for the response @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=17338

These are laying on the garage floors so sorry that rotation of the picture was 180 off.

Thanks for the info on the dimples, looks like custom work then by prior owner.

Valves look bigger than expected so I measured and intake is 50mm, exhaust is 40mm so significant bigger than stock.

That was just debris on the valve in that picture above ( it’s all going to get taken apart so I haven’t been super worried about cleanliness on the heads), but look at the nicks on the surrounding area.

Think that was foreign matter or something else?

Posted by: JOEPROPER Apr 1 2020, 07:38 AM

Looks like something was inside there trying to get out.

Posted by: Tdskip Apr 1 2020, 07:43 AM

Good morning, hope you are doing well.

So looks more like foreign matter rather than detonation? I'm still very new at engine internal diagnostics but I believe denotation generally looks different than this.

Posted by: Tbrown4x4 Apr 1 2020, 08:44 AM

Those are impacts. See how the metal is displaced around the marks?

And I was joking about the picture orientation.

Posted by: live free & drive Apr 1 2020, 09:37 AM

The dots around the intake are laminar flow enhancers (golf ball dimples) you usually see these dimples machined into intake manifold runners on high end porting/flow jobs - the other ones looks like a nut went down the intake and smashed around a bit.

Posted by: Tdskip Apr 1 2020, 09:42 AM

Thanks guys, sorry I missed the joke @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=17338 !

So does that scrap the head or "just" require more money to repair IF I try to use these again.

Posted by: Tbrown4x4 Apr 2 2020, 02:30 AM

I don't see why you couldn't use them as they are. After a trip to the machine shop, of course.

Posted by: falcor75 Apr 2 2020, 04:11 AM

Wow those dimples are funky, I doubt they contribute anything but imaginary horsepower. And a 50 mm intake valve, especially on a turbo engine where you force the charge past the valve... Feels like the builder ticked all the most expensive options without really knowing what it would result in...

Posted by: Tdskip Apr 2 2020, 02:30 PM

Thanks gentlemen, appreciate the insight.

Posted by: Tdskip Apr 17 2020, 11:06 AM

Pulled the flywheel - 12.3 pounds.

Note to self - blow off the clutch dust before bringing it inside next time.

Posted by: UROpartsman Apr 17 2020, 12:02 PM

Great stuff, thanks for sharing.

Posted by: Tdskip Apr 17 2020, 12:05 PM

Yes - I thought the tip to avoid getting brake dust on your bathroom scale was super useful. Ha, I am such a dope. Vacuum, don’t try to wipe it up btw.

:-)

Hope you are doing well.

Posted by: sixnotfour Apr 17 2020, 12:08 PM

picture of backside for reference pls.

Posted by: Tdskip Apr 17 2020, 02:27 PM

Here you go

Posted by: Tdskip Aug 17 2020, 05:42 PM

Hello gentlemen - just an update that after lots and lots of cleaning this engine went to Brothers for a rebuild this morning.

Going to run it around 8.5:1 compression so pump gas is OK and not too highly strung. Case being split and everything checking and replaced/addressed as needed.

Appreciate all the engagement on this thread and others (like flywheel questions).

Will be going back in the red car it came out of so will be using Ben’s /6 bits on a different build.

Will keep this thread updated with how it all turns out, going to be a couple weeks.

Posted by: PaulFV8 Aug 20 2020, 05:25 AM

TD, apologies if I missed a post. Did you determine who built these parts? Pauter?
Thanks

Posted by: Tdskip Aug 20 2020, 08:08 AM

Hi Bao-I have not been able to figure that out but a couple of the shops I talked to said the welding that I thought looked sketchy was actually very deliberate to allow the heads to handle more heat and the builder when we went over everything gave it a “Yep, this will work” initial review subject to splitting the case in doing the detailed checking/machine work.

Apparently there have been quite a few of these big motors built in greater Southern California over the years and while they have somewhat fallen out of favor they’re pretty known territory.

Happy to share whatever I learn and will let people know how this goes.

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 20 2020, 08:19 AM

Looks like the heads have a semi-hemi cut.
Are you turbo charging again? If not I'd use a bit more CR. But you might not be able to if the head CC is too big.

Posted by: Tdskip Aug 20 2020, 08:27 AM

Good morning Mark.

I decided to ditch the turbo set up, so will be normally aspirated. I discussed targeting a 8.2 - 8.5 CR with the machine shop, it all needs to be checked and figured out. Since it came to be as someone else's work lots of unknowns here still. It did have copper head shims installed when I pulled the heads off.

Bit of a gamble to be sure, but even when it was only running on 3 of 4 it felt pretty strong and that was with a wonky single Weber with whatever compression ratio it had.

Posted by: jd74914 Aug 20 2020, 08:39 AM

Are you re-using the cam in it? Or at least measuring it to see what was there? If the combo did work well N/A it'd be a shame to mess it up.

Looking forward to see what comes of it. Glad the heads are being reused!

Posted by: Tdskip Aug 20 2020, 09:49 AM

Hi Jim - hoping to re-use the cam since it seemed to work well but everything being inspected since the case is being split.

Thanks for the ideas and interest in the build.

Posted by: Tdskip Sep 11 2020, 02:00 PM

Quick update - Brothers Machine Shop, nice people to work with, were not thrilled with the heads that were on the engine so I brought them a spare set of 2.0l heads that had already been prepped for a big bore build. I am having them rebuild and port those, so will be another couple weeks before much more is done.

Flywheel I bought second hand is junk, ugh, so need to track a good one down or pop for a new one.

Posted by: djway Sep 11 2020, 09:11 PM

Did you get to see the 914 they are working on at Brothers? Maybe a couple by now.

Posted by: Tdskip Sep 12 2020, 07:41 AM

I didn’t, but I did see a super cool sandrail dragster!

Posted by: wndsrfr Sep 12 2020, 07:48 PM

Check with FAT...they sourced me a good used FW when I got my stroker crank from them...

Posted by: Tdskip Sep 13 2020, 08:58 AM

Thanks John, good idea.