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Posted by: brcacti Mar 5 2020, 04:32 PM

So from what I have been reading on here if I am right a survivor car is a stock or mostly stock, not restored that is in good or better condition? Does that sound right?

Posted by: AZBanks Mar 5 2020, 04:38 PM

Sounds about right.

Posted by: DickSteinkamp Mar 5 2020, 05:57 PM

Everybody's definition of "survivor" is going to be a little different. This description is closest to mine...

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/07/car-collectors-corner-survivor-car-or-not/

"The first rule of survivor cars is their original paint job.

The interior also has to be original to qualify as a survivor car.

The rest of the survivor car rules are pretty simple: it should have its factory power-train front to back and it should have all of its original equipment like spare tire jack and lug wrench"

I think it is next to impossible for a true survivor to be "in as good or better condition" than when it came off the assembly line. Certainly not better...I've seen a few that were as good, but they had few if any miles on them.

Posted by: brcacti Mar 5 2020, 06:42 PM

So if the car is close to new it not only would be a survivor but "like new"? Would you STILL use the survivor word for a car that is like new?

Posted by: Jamie Mar 5 2020, 07:02 PM

My 73 1.7L I consider to be a survivor even though I have had the exterior repainted in original Delphi Green. I have made a few other driver friendly mods such as moving fuel pump to front and replacing fuel lines and SS brake lines. The clincher is the fact that the battery tray still has factory original L99A paint! She is a maintained to be driven garage queen!

Posted by: JeffBowlsby Mar 5 2020, 07:54 PM

So if its only missing its jack or lug wrench (both of which are replaceable) its now no longer a 'survivor'? I don't think so.

The problem is that the term 'survivor' is too amorphous, vague, ambiguous and arbitrary. It really is a meaningless term because anyone can interpret it to suit their own needs and other interpretations will always get it 'wrong'. Works great in a used car ad because it panders to the sellers needs and is easily misconstrued by buyers. Same with "OG" and even 'factory'. Can we agree to avoid this term 'survivor' on this forum?

"Original" is a slightly better term because its more specific, but even then that word will be stretched by some - because they can - and will.

Posted by: Craigers17 Mar 5 2020, 07:55 PM

Are you writing a for sale ad?

Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 5 2020, 08:02 PM

I thought it was a car that never got voted off the island.

Posted by: Mikey914 Mar 5 2020, 08:45 PM

I think the term survivor will be like shades of grey.
I have a 72 with no rust, interior mostly stock, with enough records to establish mileage matches the odometer.
Unfortunately it also documents a paint job in the 80s.
I’d say the no rust alone makes it a survivor, but technically they all are survivors is they’re still operable.

Posted by: Tbrown4x4 Mar 6 2020, 03:46 AM

I wouldn't consider a car kept in storage it's whole life a "survivor" either.

Posted by: Coondog Mar 6 2020, 05:40 AM

Just another stupid word like Outlaw............

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 6 2020, 06:35 AM

Best one I ever had, that will forever hold the gold standard for a survivor for me, 1970 911E, parked in 72.


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Posted by: brcacti Mar 6 2020, 04:10 PM

Hello, no, not writing an ad. My car is a survivor but NOT like new. I am sure there are plenty of 914s that are like new from some members here. To really qualify I guess they would also need to be very low original miles or completely rebuilt engines in a like new car ?

Posted by: porschetub Mar 7 2020, 04:23 PM

I see a survivor as a car that has travelled low to medium miles with original paint that has been well loved by previous 2 long time owners say and presents well ,we are seeing cars being put into this definition by dealers who don't know these cars and are being less that accurate because they don't know.
This is quickly picked up by members in the "know" on here...like that as it helps buyers.
Brad for example sells cars that fit into the "survivor " description because to me they fit the above specs and serviced pre-sale as are many members cars on the FS section and generally priced well.
My cars very original low mileage except for a bunch of mods for 6 cyl application,in real terms a mongrel with lots of 911 parts and some 944 bits...don't care as none of my cars have ever been stock.

Posted by: 73-914 Mar 7 2020, 04:43 PM

just like the term "Frame-off restoration" Over used

Posted by: jagalyn Mar 7 2020, 05:49 PM

Survivors are real.

I think a lot of cars get 'tinkered with', 'modified' or 'not maintained' during their life and no longer would be considered 'original'... especially with 914's. They were so looked down on that I think there were few that were left in their original condition without modification or outright neglect.

But many of these 'tinkered' and 'neglected' cars now have been 'restored' back to their 'original' condition... but then they are 'restored' and did not ever make it to the 'survivor' status.

My 73 2.0L is all original. Never been painted (Even though the clear coat on the metallic silver paint has failed). Never been modified. Never damaged. Never rusted. Never 'tinkered' with or 'personalized' by the prior owners. There's not one thing on my car that is not factory original other than the dealer installed radio and regular mechanical maintenance items like tires, struts, brakes, injectors, etc.).

I consider it a 'survivor' because it has made it (survived) 50+ years without someone trying to make it something other than what is was when it left the factory. If after 50 years a car has not been modified, damaged or restored and maintains all of it's factory paint and original equipment, then I deem it a 'Survivor' regardless of what anyone else says about it.

Now that being said, I do think there are different levels of 'survivors'. From the pristine 'garage finds' that were put away for 40 or 50 year shortly after new to the cars that were driven continuously with 100,000+ miles over those same 40 or 50 years but never painted, modified, damaged or restored. Both in my book are survivors.

That's my definition... And that's my car. It has 117,000 miles on it and still wears 100% of it's factory paint, interior, engine, transmission and standard and optional factory equipment.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 7 2020, 11:38 PM

That's pretty much my definition too although I tend to think of survivors also being condition class 3 or better. Mileage doesn't matter but condition does. Paint doesn't have to be perfect, but should be original in my book. In short, a survivor should be able to serve as a reference for anyone trying to restore their car to original condition.

Posted by: jagalyn Mar 8 2020, 02:28 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 Perfect addition to a survivor description... 'should be able to serve as a reference for anyone trying to restore their car to original condition.'