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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Tube Chassis Subaru Engine build

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 4 2020, 11:27 PM

Heres the quick break down: My old car got totaled on the side of the road, i got a good settlement out of it and with the money im building A tube frame chassis 914 with Porsche Boxster suspension and a subaru turbo motor.
The goals:
(Disclaimer some of these are really down the road and may not make the initial version 2.0, maybe 2.1 or so on and so forth. They are also goals so weather or not i achieve them, it’s something to shoot for.)

Tube frame chassis, all made of DOM tube and when all when the car is fully built it should weigh 1600 ish lbs.

The motor: It will have a subaru turbo motor. The initial version will see a 2.0 just so i can start having fun but eventually it’ll be a hybrid 2.5 making 400whp

The suspension: It will all be porsche boxster same with the brakes so it should handle all the power and lack of weight im throwing at it.

The body: It will be all fiberglass panels dzused on with the exception of the A pillar which will be a stock piece from a 914 but it will retain a vin tag. The only other stock 914 related thing will be pop up headlights which will be retained.

Aero: This thing will have an extreme aero package. From the smooth underbelly with large rear diffuser and front splitter to canards and a chassis mounted rear wing, This “car” WILL have a presence like little else.

Interior: Skip... JK this thing will have a digital dash, k tuned shifter, willwood pedal cluster, and a plaid racing seat. Thats about it, passenger seat is seen as optional at this point.

So hopefully this should be good, i dont have much time, even in the covid 19 world we currently find ourselves in right now. It may not be a fast paced build but the goal is to have a roller by june... So lets get to building!

OG car:
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The Crash:
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Whats Left:
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I dont have many parts left, I took all the good parts off sold what i could and kept what i needed.

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 5 2020, 08:52 AM

First step is the main frame rails. i bent these up and took way too long but they are within a 64th of an inch of each other and are dead flat.
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Next I needed to mock it up to find my width which is 22” inside to inside. I also wanted to see what it was gonna look like
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Posted by: gereed75 Apr 5 2020, 10:41 AM

Interesting. Have been contemplating a similar midengine build using boxster suspension. Will be interested to see how this goes together!

Posted by: Mueller Apr 5 2020, 12:51 PM

Subscribed!

Posted by: cali914 Apr 5 2020, 12:58 PM

i like biggrin.gif

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 5 2020, 07:26 PM

Began welding the main bit of the chassis together. Fairly decent welds, im still getting used to the hand controls instead of a pedal to make it more simple to weld while on the floor.
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Damn pictures keep rotating, i even turn them in my phone but no luck.

Posted by: Andyrew Apr 5 2020, 09:02 PM

This will be a great build!!!! Are you going to document it on the YT channel?

Posted by: Tbrown4x4 Apr 6 2020, 02:59 AM

Loved your old car. It'll be great watching this!

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 6 2020, 05:45 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Apr 5 2020, 07:02 PM) *

This will be a great build!!!! Are you going to document it on the YT channel?

I certainly will!

Posted by: gereed75 Apr 6 2020, 06:28 AM

What do you call your tube channel?

Posted by: jmitro Apr 6 2020, 06:42 AM

very cool!

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 6 2020, 08:44 AM

popcorn[1].gif sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif pray.gif

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 6 2020, 12:28 PM

QUOTE(gereed75 @ Apr 6 2020, 04:28 AM) *

What do you call your tube channel?

Ziptied, a place where u can see me do dumb things with cars.
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCwkC6muunVD72SHwE9ZoXeA

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 6 2020, 09:03 PM

Spent the day adding in the wings of the chassis under where the driver and passenger(?) sits and honing in my tube bender. Turns out my bending die is advertised as a 7” radius but in reality its an 8.125” radius (which made me waste some good metal to find out). More on what i was bending tomorrow when im done. Attached Image

Posted by: Mueller Apr 7 2020, 08:46 AM

Looks great so far.

Have you measured the floor jacks to ensure same height or not grossly off?


Posted by: Andyrew Apr 7 2020, 05:37 PM

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ Apr 6 2020, 04:45 AM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Apr 5 2020, 07:02 PM) *

This will be a great build!!!! Are you going to document it on the YT channel?

I certainly will!


beerchug.gif

I miss those things

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 7 2020, 05:59 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Apr 7 2020, 06:46 AM) *

Looks great so far.

Have you measured the floor jacks to ensure same height or not grossly off?

Yep i welded them in place to ensure the same height and to dissuade me from using them on something else. Also made them level because without much weight on them they dont sit flat.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Apr 7 2020, 06:27 PM

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ Apr 7 2020, 07:59 PM) *

QUOTE(Mueller @ Apr 7 2020, 06:46 AM) *

Looks great so far.

Have you measured the floor jacks to ensure same height or not grossly off?

Yep i welded them in place to ensure the same height and to dissuade me from using them on something else. Also made them level because without much weight on them they dont sit flat.


the floor is flat too ?
garage floors are not exactly a surface plate.
looks are deceiving.

Posted by: Andyrew Apr 7 2020, 07:47 PM

Flat and straight enough is flat and straight enough for a home build smile.gif I'm sure he can build enough adjustability into the mounts to correct any twist in the chassis.


Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 7 2020, 08:48 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Apr 7 2020, 05:47 PM) *

Flat and straight enough is flat and straight enough for a home build smile.gif I'm sure he can build enough adjustability into the mounts to correct any twist in the chassis.

Correct however i regularly check measurements and after a good amount of welding .35 degrees is all the twist so far. My garage floor is absolutely not flat but once all the welding is done im gonna shim the stands to level it out. Too bad a chassis table is so damn big and expensive.... next time i guess.

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 7 2020, 08:53 PM

Built a lot of gussets, i really badly wanted them to sit flush with the bottom of the floor but after an hour and a half of trial and error, i found it cannot be done on 90 degree joints with my tube notcher as is. I wanted the gussets to double as mounts to the floor pan but ill have to fab up separate mounts for that confused24.gif They gussets fit pretty good and i made all 8 in 30 minutes after that whole debacle. Now to weld in!
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Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 8 2020, 09:23 PM

Not a big day but got some of the gussets added in. I also added the middle bar back into the floor now that i know where center is.
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Posted by: Andyrew Apr 9 2020, 12:49 AM

What’s the body concept going to be? Are you sticking to 914 or boxster chassis dimensions?

Love the progress smile.gif

Posted by: 911GT2 Apr 9 2020, 01:26 AM

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ Apr 7 2020, 06:53 PM) *

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Lover your welding! wub.gif

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 9 2020, 05:54 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Apr 8 2020, 10:49 PM) *

What’s the body concept going to be? Are you sticking to 914 or boxster chassis dimensions?

Love the progress smile.gif

914 wheelbase, but based on what im seeing both front and rear are gonna be wiiiidddee.
It looks like the outside edge of the brake rotor is the same width as a stock 914 bodie give or take a little.

Posted by: Andyrew Apr 9 2020, 02:21 PM

Remember their wheel offset is way different than the 914s, plus the track width is a few inches wider.

You should be fine with a decently flared body.

Posted by: sixnotfour Apr 9 2020, 03:04 PM

Boxster with 914 body for reference
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=332830


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Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 9 2020, 04:32 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Apr 9 2020, 12:21 PM) *

Remember their wheel offset is way different than the 914s, plus the track width is a few inches wider.

You should be fine with a decently flared body.

if i used normal tire widths biggrin.gif

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 9 2020, 04:34 PM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Apr 9 2020, 01:04 PM) *

Boxster with 914 body for reference
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=332830

I want it to end up a lot shorter than that which may mean a couple bumps in the body maybe. A sacrifice im willing to make.

Posted by: URY914 Apr 9 2020, 05:56 PM

I have one word of advice: Triangulation.

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 9 2020, 06:18 PM

QUOTE(URY914 @ Apr 9 2020, 03:56 PM) *

I have one word of advice: Triangulation.

Ahh but it is the word of the day with the new additions to the floor!Attached Image

Posted by: Mueller Apr 9 2020, 06:35 PM

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ Apr 9 2020, 04:54 AM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Apr 8 2020, 10:49 PM) *

What’s the body concept going to be? Are you sticking to 914 or boxster chassis dimensions?

Love the progress smile.gif

914 wheelbase, but based on what im seeing both front and rear are gonna be wiiiidddee.
It looks like the outside edge of the brake rotor is the same width as a stock 914 bodie give or take a little.



I've seen a 993 rear suspension in a 914 that the owner narrowed the subframe assembly(pics someplace around here)

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 9 2020, 07:13 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Apr 9 2020, 04:35 PM) *

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ Apr 9 2020, 04:54 AM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Apr 8 2020, 10:49 PM) *

What’s the body concept going to be? Are you sticking to 914 or boxster chassis dimensions?

Love the progress smile.gif

914 wheelbase, but based on what im seeing both front and rear are gonna be wiiiidddee.
It looks like the outside edge of the brake rotor is the same width as a stock 914 bodie give or take a little.



I've seen a 993 rear suspension in a 914 that the owner narrowed the subframe assembly(pics someplace around here)

Ive thought about it but im not too worried about width. As low and wide as i can go is my goal... but not scraping the asphalt more like as wide as reasonable and as wide as i can afford.

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 10 2020, 08:08 PM

Got the last of the welding that is possible on my current tig cup, i was gonna get the right cup today but it was damn good friday. The last of the tight welds will wait till monday. I also finally got the main hoop bent and notched. It still needs a little work to get it right because its a little wide. i may tighten a couple bends a degree or so to bring it next to perfect. Nothing serious. But it’ll wait till tomorrow like the dash bar
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Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 11 2020, 09:42 PM

Finally building in 3d, got the main hoop finish notched and welded on!
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Killed the drill finally, i was trying to notch dash bars... Craftsman Warranty..?
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Posted by: maf914 Apr 12 2020, 06:55 AM

Craftsman warranty? Good luck with that. What was the original warranty? Head for Lowe's and see what they say. Let us know what happens if you pursue it. I have plenty of Craftsman tools and no Sears nearby. Good luck.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 12 2020, 07:36 AM

QUOTE(maf914 @ Apr 12 2020, 07:55 AM) *

Craftsman warranty? Good luck with that. What was the original warranty? Head for Lowe's and see what they say. Let us know what happens if you pursue it. I have plenty of Craftsman tools and no Sears nearby. Good luck.


The "Craftsman tools warranty" died when Sears sold off the Craftsman name. The new stuff is no where near the quality it used to be, and even Sears (if you can find one) doesn't honor the warranty for the old stuff.


Posted by: Andyrew Apr 12 2020, 08:37 AM

I hear Ace and Lowe's still exchange them. Craftsman as a brand is not dead... Just Sears.

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 12 2020, 09:13 AM

Imagine if we had professional sportscasters, I'm thinking those "quiet talker/golf types", doing commentary as these builds were happening...

Post #2: "Interesting... He's gone with round tube for his main chassis frame. Let's see what he comes up with as a way to attach the floor."

Post #6: He's about to post some close ups of his TIG work and, and... NICE! Looking like a proper stack of dimes! I can barely hear over the roar of the Gallery! And those cheers are well deserved. Brilliant work, simply brilliant! He's setting some pretty high expectations.

Post #19: "...flat and straight enough for a home build." Fair advice from @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 . We've seen others spend WAAAY too much time messing about on the last 5% of something when they could have been on to more valuable work.

Post #21: He's showing solid consistency on those corner braces. OH! And there's the comment about attaching the floor! Well, we can look forward to watching him solve for this. Given the work quality so far, I'm sure this will work out just fine.

Post #36-39: Classic! All the fabulous custom fabrication and they're focused on a drill warranty!

Tazz - Keep up the great work. Your build pace and quality are impressive! I can't wait to see this come to life!
Chris

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 12 2020, 11:22 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Apr 12 2020, 07:13 AM) *

Imagine if we had professional sportscasters, I'm thinking those "quiet talker/golf types", doing commentary as these builds were happening...

Post #2: "Interesting... He's gone with round tube for his main chassis frame. Let's see what he comes up with as a way to attach the floor."

Post #6: He's about to post some close ups of his TIG work and, and... NICE! Looking like a proper stack of dimes! I can barely hear over the roar of the Gallery! And those cheers are well deserved. Brilliant work, simply brilliant! He's setting some pretty high expectations.

Post #19: "...flat and straight enough for a home build." Fair advice from @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 . We've seen others spend WAAAY too much time messing about on the last 5% of something when they could have been on to more valuable work.

Post #21: He's showing solid consistency on those corner braces. OH! And there's the comment about attaching the floor! Well, we can look forward to watching him solve for this. Given the work quality so far, I'm sure this will work out just fine.

Post #36-39: Classic! All the fabulous custom fabrication and they're focused on a drill warranty!

Tazz - Keep up the great work. Your build pace and quality are impressive! I can't wait to see this come to life!
Chris

Dang i appreciate it! the comment on post 19 seems like it may have hit a little close to home for you lol-2.gif Ill figure out something with the floor. I work with pro mods at work and they just use dzus’s to hold the panels in. I dont think ill go that route but i do expect some pretty large sheets of aluminum coming my way. I might have you make some brackets on that plasma table idea.gif

Posted by: sixnotfour Apr 12 2020, 12:16 PM

in my 914 my seat is on the floor in the back and 3 inches up in the front..
Yours with the tube dia. plus seat tilt, you be sitting pretty high? Im 6ft
Great project popcorn[1].gif sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif
Oh ya same seat..

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 12 2020, 01:30 PM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Apr 12 2020, 10:16 AM) *

in my 914 my seat is on the floor in the back and 3 inches up in the front..
Yours with the tube dia. plus seat tilt, you be sitting pretty high? Im 6ft
Great project popcorn[1].gif sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif

no its not bad, i sat in it already and my head doesn’t poke out the top even with a helmet, and thats without tilt

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 12 2020, 10:08 PM

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ Apr 12 2020, 10:22 AM) *

Dang i appreciate it! the comment on post 19 seems like it may have hit a little close to home for you lol-2.gif Ill figure out something with the floor. I work with pro mods at work and they just use dzus’s to hold the panels in. I dont think ill go that route but i do expect some pretty large sheets of aluminum coming my way. I might have you make some brackets on that plasma table idea.gif


Well, yes, I am talking about myself in that comment re: post #19! laugh.gif
I'd be happy to fab some brackets for you. Just let me know.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 13 2020, 07:21 AM

I think it is kind of telling that this tube framed 914 is starting it's life on jackstands!

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lol-2.gif av-943.gif laugh.gif


Seriously, this is some beautiful work.

Clay

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 13 2020, 09:14 PM

I started work on the dash bar and uprights today. I know its not a traditional design for the dash bar but ive seen enough examples of it to be comfortable with its integrity. It also allows me to accelerate my build and wait till i get the a pillar to build the upper half of the cage. In other news the craftsman drill crisis has been solved. Lowes wouldn’t warranty it and due to another serious crisis, craftsman is closed, so i bought another drill and put a protection plan on it... lowes will waranty that drill in about a week laugh.gif
Other Other news there officially will be a bump in the hood. The strut top is around 2” higher than the cowl sooo itll get a vent or something, im thinking like the ones on a charger daytona idk
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Posted by: sixnotfour Apr 14 2020, 05:13 AM

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=206845&st=240#

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 14 2020, 06:03 AM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Apr 14 2020, 03:13 AM) *

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=206845&st=240#

Exactly, but please end my suffering if i turn it into a face

Posted by: Andyrew Apr 14 2020, 04:27 PM

Someone is going low low I take it? I like the idea of hiding it in fender vents. Probably make some rounded contoured RSR style vents...

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 could whip up some CNC cut pieces if you CAD drew it smile.gif

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 14 2020, 05:22 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Apr 14 2020, 02:27 PM) *

Someone is going low low I take it? I like the idea of hiding it in fender vents. Probably make some rounded contoured RSR style vents...

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 could whip up some CNC cut pieces if you CAD drew it smile.gif

My main goal is for it not to be bulky and tall like a rebodied boxster i want it short andto have correct proportions for a 914

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 19 2020, 07:50 PM

Ok update: I was out of town for a couple days and was nearly dead from exhaustion for the next day and a half. So progress stopped for a bit, but now ive made some good progress! I built some cups to mount the subframes, they came out good but i ran out of gas almost immediately afterward. Then i put the subframe up in place and found my guess on the bars that could run into the wheels dont! and the mounting seems easy for the subframe in the front. I also took a scrap bar from a failed main hoop and it looks pretty good to me. smash.gif Tomorrow im gonna take the struts off because they’re being a pain in the ass and it will make it considerably easier to deal with.

Really obscure question does anyone have a boxster they can jack up to tell me the control arm angle in full droop? If not ill have to figure it out somehow, i have the angle while loaded on the ground.

Subframe cups:
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Scrap Bar strut tower:
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With a wheel on:
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Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 24 2020, 09:50 PM

I finally got the fiberglass ive been waiting for since before the corona outbreak. I picked it up from greyhound today (side note: dont ever ship greyhound, you pick up your porsche parts from a gas station in the ghetto)
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This was the biggest box ive ever received, i WAS gonna pick it up with my kei car, Honda beat but i listened to reason and took a volvo.... wise choice.
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Everything is a bit rough.. especially the fenders but i can make it work. The front bumper is decent enough to make me happy, and i knew the side skirts were wrong buying this stuff but oh well. I think they’re sheridan skirts if anyone needs them let me know, they are in good condition. Add it to the fiberglass stockpile in my attic.
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Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 28 2020, 09:21 PM

I was delayed a few days because i was waiting for bolts but im back at least for a little. I measured and measured again until i got the subframe nice and square so i could make decent lines to cut into my chassis.
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Posted by: Andyrew Apr 29 2020, 01:27 AM

Welds look nice!

BTDT on the greyhound in the ghetto... About the only way to ship BIG items though for normal people money..

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 29 2020, 05:55 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Apr 28 2020, 11:27 PM) *

Welds look nice!

BTDT on the greyhound in the ghetto... About the only way to ship BIG items though for normal people money..

oh i know, but it was a very funny experience but ill spring for freight next time. that way it wont take a month and a half and i can stay in the comfort of my own home

Posted by: jd74914 Apr 29 2020, 09:39 AM

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ Apr 28 2020, 10:21 PM) *

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What's this holding? If it's seeing any real load and not heavily gusseted you're likely going to rip the tube in the HAZ outside of the weld. BTDT. Sometimes gussets don't even do too much.

The welds look nice! first.gif

I know you're going along a pretty good clip but below are some pro-tips*:
1) Get a second regulator and purge the ID of the tube frame when you full weld it. Quality will be much higher.
2) Clean the inside of the tubing with a pipe cleaner.
3) Drywall mesh does a really good job of cleaning mill scale off without loading up. A quick pass of the wire brush in one direction afterwards takes care of the rest.
4) For any coped tubes going into a tube without air connection (like your gussets), drill a small hole so 1) gases expanding inside don't cause your pool to blow out at you near closing the weld and 2) you can purge.
5) If you use 4130 or any other high carbon steel, be sure to normalize the weld HAZ to keep it from cracking under use. You can do this with a torch (instructions in Engineer to Win IIRC).

*Not a pro welder, but I've welded 5? (can't remember the full count now laugh.gif) full tube framed formula cars and a bunch of semi-tubed cars.

Posted by: jd74914 Apr 29 2020, 09:48 AM

QUOTE(URY914 @ Apr 9 2020, 06:56 PM) *

I have one word of advice: Triangulation.

What you did isn't really triangulation from an engineering sense. You made triangles, but they don't connect to the nodes so all you really did was put all of your tubes in bending vs. making the structure a two-force type truss member. That misses out on a lot of stiffness.

The spots you've done on the floor don't really matter, especially when you rivet on an actual floor because that shear plate will take care of any bending more efficiently than triangles. When you do to suspension bracing really try to make sure all of the nodes are braced directly with tubing running right in them. With properly triangulated nodes you don't need the coped tube gussets (you can put "tacos" if you want, but they really aren't necessary).

Rudy's build is a great example of good node structure with practical considerations for being a "914." His is a better inspiration than formula cars since it also incorporates the practicality of a car.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=206845&view=findpost&p=2361501

I'm not trying to be a dick, but rather provide constructive criticism from someone who has been there...please don't take above as me trashing your project, your work looks great! smile.gif

Posted by: tazz9924 Apr 29 2020, 11:49 AM

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Apr 29 2020, 07:48 AM) *

QUOTE(URY914 @ Apr 9 2020, 06:56 PM) *

I have one word of advice: Triangulation.

What you did isn't really triangulation from an engineering sense. You made triangles, but they don't connect to the nodes so all you really did was put all of your tubes in bending vs. making the structure a two-force type truss member. That misses out on a lot of stiffness.

The spots you've done on the floor don't really matter, especially when you rivet on an actual floor because that shear plate will take care of any bending more efficiently than triangles. When you do to suspension bracing really try to make sure all of the nodes are braced directly with tubing running right in them. With properly triangulated nodes you don't need the coped tube gussets (you can put "tacos" if you want, but they really aren't necessary).

Rudy's build is a great example of good node structure with practical considerations for being a "914." His is a better inspiration than formula cars since it also incorporates the practicality of a car.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=206845&view=findpost&p=2361501

I'm not trying to be a dick, but rather provide constructive criticism from someone who has been there...please don't take above as me trashing your project, your work looks great! smile.gif

Noted! i understand what your saying, in my design it is a major part. The floor design i took from a trusted source, and i misinterpreted what u meant. Love the detailed responses though!

Posted by: tazz9924 May 6 2020, 12:05 PM

I continued mounting the front subrame. Still sitting perfect. In the future once i get some more metal on this thing im going to reinforce the mounting points because as they stand, they are week. More to come!
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Posted by: tygaboy May 6 2020, 04:02 PM

Holy Moley! That bad boy will be a roller soon! aktion035.gif
Come to my shop and help me build my tube chassis...

Posted by: tazz9924 May 6 2020, 06:35 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ May 6 2020, 02:02 PM) *

Holy Moley! That bad boy will be a roller soon! aktion035.gif
Come to my shop and help me build my tube chassis...

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 ill need a plane ticket and Perdiem chowtime.gif

Posted by: tazz9924 May 10 2020, 12:44 PM

Finally! im done welding up the front subframe in place... for now. It’ll get a little more reinforcement in the future but now i must cleanse myself of the hatred that was welding the front mounts up. Now on to mounting those front struts!
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Posted by: tazz9924 May 13 2020, 09:56 PM

Made my strut tops! Ill be honest i was very excited about making these because i knew they could look good.. and they do! I would’ve preferred to bend the steel instead of having weld joints but i was assured of its strength so ill take it.
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Posted by: 914forme May 14 2020, 05:59 AM

They will be plenty strong as the top plate is taking the majority of the force. The other forces will be applied at the attachment points, depending on your plans for attachment, you may need to add something down the sides to transfer the loads.

popcorn[1].gif

Liking the progress, and the fact it is a down and dirty build.

Posted by: tazz9924 May 15 2020, 11:45 PM

major progress.
I cut the holes in the strut tops to allow for the strut to pass through.
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Next i welded in what ill call: The bar that links my struts together and is critical to my camber. I used quite a bit of scaffolding to make sure it was setup right. I used actual measurements from a boxster to space the struts correctly. One of the complaints of the boxster is you cant get enough camber from it stock. I added 1/4” of strut top negative camber. Its not much but i should be able to get a little more out of it if need be. The control arm angle was a point of contention for me. I couldnt find a boxsters control arm angle at full droop, so i... i eye balled it.. intelligently. i know it should be around 1 degree up at ride height, which from what ive read stock ride height is where the strength of this suspension lies. I settled on 20 degrees at full droop. I figure the car will settle an inch when it sets on the ground which will bring it somewhere close to where it should be. This car will have adjustable suspension so i can tune in the control arm angle as needed. It also sets the strut tops fairly low, which is a plus in my book.
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Once i finished the; The bar that links my struts together and is critical to my camber bar I then moved onto caster. I matched the caster i measured on a boxster and matched it with two temporary bars. now onto bigger and better things!
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Posted by: tygaboy May 16 2020, 07:29 AM

Isn't it fun triple double checking all the measurements and questioning your assumptions over and over? Are you laying in bed each night rethinking how you're going to design and build that next section? blink.gif

You're making great progress! Can't wait to see more.

Posted by: Andyrew May 16 2020, 08:13 AM

WOO solid progress!


You should throw your video's in this build thread when your done with them.

Posted by: tazz9924 May 16 2020, 08:57 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ May 16 2020, 06:13 AM) *

WOO solid progress!


You should throw your video's in this build thread when your done with them.

I totally spaced on that!
If you want to see my beautiful(?) face actually working on this, here’s the link to my video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tO0ksx4SHTo

Posted by: tazz9924 May 16 2020, 08:57 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ May 16 2020, 05:29 AM) *

Isn't it fun triple double checking all the measurements and questioning your assumptions over and over? Are you laying in bed each night rethinking how you're going to design and build that next section? blink.gif

You're making great progress! Can't wait to see more.

Oh god its all i do!

Posted by: JOEPROPER May 16 2020, 09:30 AM

Nice video.
popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: 76-914 May 16 2020, 12:08 PM

Probably the fastest build yet. beerchug.gif

Posted by: sb914 May 16 2020, 12:25 PM

I love the video!! Keep them coming.

Posted by: tazz9924 May 17 2020, 09:44 PM

More bars went in today, but not every day goes smooth even when you get in a groove. First i made the bars that go from the dash bar to the struts, easy enough. Some complex angles that aren’t immediately obvious but some flap dish work and its all good.
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Next came the bars the go from the main chassis rails to the: The tube critical for my camber and attatching both struts. These bars were a pain! First i tried to link it up with the bar that attatches the two chassis rails. No Beans. 4 try’s down the road i gave up on that pipe dream (get it) and moved them back two inches and bingo! i even got to reuse a mistake bar.
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I then attempted to notch up a triangulation bar for the front section but i messed up three times on the same bar. I learned from my mistakes but dang i really wanted to start finish welding mad.gif
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I did notice this thing looks like a teenager in that old school head gear, braces things. Do people still get those?

Posted by: tazz9924 May 18 2020, 09:55 PM

I can finally sleep tonight. I got that diagonal bar in with major troubles. Three attempts and a lot of hammer blows and its in.


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Posted by: tazz9924 May 22 2020, 10:23 PM

I figured id give a little update. My last couple days have been anger inducing ive made little progress despite putting in a fair bit of time. Sometimes thats just the way it goes. I made a little subframe that’s mostly so i can align up the rear suspension. Im highly considering changing/redoing that again in the future, maybe tubular next time idk.
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It however will serve its purpose as tomorrow i embark on finally mounting that rear suspension and making my car whole!.... a little teaser:
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Posted by: 76-914 May 23 2020, 09:38 AM

popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Andyrew May 23 2020, 08:57 PM

Good work! Fast progress! Keep it moving while you have the energy!

Posted by: 911GT2 May 24 2020, 02:46 AM

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ May 22 2020, 08:23 PM) *

I figured id give a little update. My last couple days have been anger inducing ive made little progress despite putting in a fair bit of time. Sometimes thats just the way it goes. I made a little subframe that’s mostly so i can align up the rear suspension. Im highly considering changing/redoing that again in the future, maybe tubular next time idk.

My advice to you, step away sometimes.
I know this from experience, from building my buggy that when it feels anger inducing or like you're making little progress to something else for a while.

Let your project sit for a couple of days and get back on it when you feel motivated again.

You can't do quality work when you're frustrated. And you end up doing it twice.

Ask me how I know. beerchug.gif

Posted by: tazz9924 May 24 2020, 08:03 AM

QUOTE(911GT2 @ May 24 2020, 12:46 AM) *

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ May 22 2020, 08:23 PM) *

I figured id give a little update. My last couple days have been anger inducing ive made little progress despite putting in a fair bit of time. Sometimes thats just the way it goes. I made a little subframe that’s mostly so i can align up the rear suspension. Im highly considering changing/redoing that again in the future, maybe tubular next time idk.

My advice to you, step away sometimes.
I know this from experience, from building my buggy that when it feels anger inducing or like you're making little progress to something else for a while.

Let your project sit for a couple of days and get back on it when you feel motivated again.

You can't do quality work when you're frustrated. And you end up doing it twice.

Ask me how I know. beerchug.gif

I know, i got a deadline because i have to move soon and id like it to roll asap. The little subframe was not of the utmost importance for the drivability of this car so i let myself do it frustrated. I cant wait to be done with this move and get a normal life back laugh.gif

Posted by: tazz9924 May 25 2020, 06:31 AM

Sunday was a big day. After spending most of the day outside in the garage i completed a lot of things i needed done. First i made some spacers and mounting plates for the rear subframe mount. Some plasma cutter and like an hour of grinding later and they came out great. (i forgot to take a picture) Next i made up a ( shaped bar to connect those plates together, made another one of those fancy camber bars that go between the struts. I lined it all up and tacked it together and presto! Our first picture.
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I decided that i needed to change the subframe i already built and didn’t like, so i did. I made it slightly thinner which helped it fit between the main hoop better and cut it to length which helps with the wheelbase issue.
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Now came the moment i had been waiting for; Time to put it all together and line it up. First i used a trusty ratchet strap to align the rear stuts to their proper angle. Simultaneously i had the subframe up on a jack with a piece of wood to balance it. I used my other jack, a new drill in a box, lots of scrap metal, and some card board to set the subframe height at the chassis. Its ghetto but it worked. I then got the correct rake of rear subframe.
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Next i setup a string alignment setup to make sure the subframe was center left to right. At some point i had to sit down and stare at it because this took like two hours to line up. But finally i got to tack everything in place and thats where we are now!
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Posted by: tazz9924 Jun 3 2020, 06:35 AM

Quick update: i picked up my doner car today! I put it in my nee trendy looking shop biggrin.gif Attached Image
And next to my daily driver
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Posted by: tazz9924 Jun 21 2020, 07:55 PM

A lot of progress! ill be brief because im tired but i basically reversed a week of work by cutting the back half apart allowing me to move houses. Next i set up my garage and car and got to work. I leveled the chassis and began work on the rear suspension in many many frustrating hours of work paid off by being able to sut back and look at what ive done.
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Posted by: bkrantz Jun 21 2020, 09:37 PM

I get dizzy looking at the tubing angles in front of those "creative" wall designs. Are you sure things are straight?

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 22 2020, 10:09 AM

Sweet! Love the progress!

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 22 2020, 10:09 AM

Also that Beat is Sweet!!!

Posted by: tazz9924 Jun 22 2020, 12:13 PM

QUOTE(bkrantz @ Jun 21 2020, 07:37 PM) *

I get dizzy looking at the tubing angles in front of those "creative" wall designs. Are you sure things are straight?

Oh i know! i had to put up a shelf and i was totally convinced it wasn’t level, it drove me crazy

Posted by: tazz9924 Jun 22 2020, 09:16 PM

Its a roller kinda! I added a strut bar on the back and let the jack rip. Unfortunately i still need to “mount” the subframe. At the very least better, because as it rolls its held by hopes and dreams. But hey its celebration time cheer.gif
Two of the bars are temporary that are on the subframe btw.
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Posted by: Carbon-14 Jun 23 2020, 04:20 AM

Observations from afar,
looking forward to the 914 skins, suitably modified to be sleek, a stiff chassis to allow competitive performance.
Subaru power, should go, like.
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SolidWorks or a similar cad sw.
Basically, a GT40 replica's tube chassis, modelled in balsa, or Z88 fea, to plan the performance and weight.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tube+chassis+design+basics&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLk-Tr0pfqAhUih-AKHbLHBwoQ_AUoAXoECBAQAw&biw=1540&bih=746
https://fem-heroes.org/example-structural-elements-for-the-design-of-a-tubular-frame/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=22&v=SQw9DFo8R5A&feature=emb_logo
https://www.ansys.com/about-ansys/advantage-magazine/volume-xiii-issue-1-2019/framing-a-lighter-stronger-race-car

Posted by: Carbon-14 Jun 23 2020, 04:26 AM

Those new fangled jackstands have me wishing they were wired shut, to insure they don't collapse, snafu.
Be safe.

Posted by: tazz9924 Jun 23 2020, 06:11 AM

QUOTE(Carbon-14 @ Jun 23 2020, 02:26 AM) *

Those new fangled jackstands have me wishing they were wired shut, to insure they don't collapse, snafu.
Be safe.

They arent the harbor freight ones, they are some amazon brand. So hopefully death isnt close?

Posted by: tazz9924 Jun 23 2020, 06:13 AM

QUOTE(Carbon-14 @ Jun 23 2020, 02:20 AM) *

Observations from afar,
looking forward to the 914 skins, suitably modified to be sleek, a stiff chassis to allow competitive performance.
Subaru power, should go, like.
Attached Image
SolidWorks or a similar cad sw.
Basically, a GT40 replica's tube chassis, modelled in balsa, or Z88 fea, to plan the performance and weight.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tube+chassis+design+basics&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLk-Tr0pfqAhUih-AKHbLHBwoQ_AUoAXoECBAQAw&biw=1540&bih=746
https://fem-heroes.org/example-structural-elements-for-the-design-of-a-tubular-frame/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=22&v=SQw9DFo8R5A&feature=emb_logo
https://www.ansys.com/about-ansys/advantage-magazine/volume-xiii-issue-1-2019/framing-a-lighter-stronger-race-car

The rear section looks quite similar to what i have planed. I just have to change it a bit because i dont have any good mounting spots on the subframe to allow me to do that exactly.

Posted by: Carbon-14 Jun 23 2020, 07:53 AM



Information overloading, to determine the rigidity and weight of the chassis, from Maserati birdcage, to Porsche 918.
Lighter, stronger, stiffer, faster, quicker, all the factors of a homebuilt -14. Have mig, will travel.

https://www.caelinux.com/CMS3/
https://openscholarship.wustl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1073&context=mems411
http://www.vintageperformancemotorcars.com/completed%20frame.htm
https://www.code-aster.org/V2/spip.php?article912
https://www.finiteelementanalysis.com.au/featured/guest-blog-curtin-motorsport/
.

Posted by: tazz9924 Jun 26 2020, 08:39 PM

Ill admit im a little stumped... Call it: i want to make the best decision but require the input of others to feel comfortable. So i need to mount the rear subframe but unlike most of the stages so far this to me seems less obvious. My big issue is how to best mount it when the mounting plate is 90 degrees to the direction my bars are coming at. Heres a picture of what im dealing with: (the red highlights are the subframes mounting spots)
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I also have a nifty drawing showing where the trans will sorta sit when its on:
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My initial reaction is to add a bent tube meeting up with the bottom of the main hoop and some tubes linking the bar above it with the bent tube shown:
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Alternatively i could add a tube with just a 90 bend in it meeting up maybe 6 inches lower than the parallel bar above it kinda like this with some more reinforcement tubes:
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This is my dilema, any input is appreciated. Even just linking someone engineeringly minded would help my cause!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24238 ?

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 26 2020, 10:41 PM

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ Jun 26 2020, 07:39 PM) *

Ill admit im a little stumped... Call it: i want to make the best decision but require the input of others to feel comfortable. So i need to mount the rear subframe but unlike most of the stages so far this to me seems less obvious. My big issue is how to best mount it when the mounting plate is 90 degrees to the direction my bars are coming at. Heres a picture of what im dealing with: (the red highlights are the subframes mounting spots)
Attached Image
I also have a nifty drawing showing where the trans will sorta sit when its on:
Attached Image
My initial reaction is to add a bent tube meeting up with the bottom of the main hoop and some tubes linking the bar above it with the bent tube shown:
Attached Image
Alternatively i could add a tube with just a 90 bend in it meeting up maybe 6 inches lower than the parallel bar above it kinda like this with some more reinforcement tubes:
Attached Image
This is my dilema, any input is appreciated. Even just linking someone engineeringly minded would help my cause!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24238 ?

Pm curbandgutter. I was just talking to him about your car. He is finished with his tube frame build. Well that portion any way. His is stretched and widened. Rudy is his name @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=15637

Posted by: Carbon-14 Jun 26 2020, 11:07 PM



https://robotics.ee.uwa.edu.au/theses/2011-REV-SAE-SpaceFrame-Waterman.pdf
The references noted are good reads to get a handle on building a stiff chassis, like the racers of the past seventy years. Compromises and assumed risk are some of the factors in welding up the frame, testing it's strength and performance on the skid pad. There is an incredible wealth of information and examples and now, available software to simulate and stress test the cages, chassis, and suspensions.
The answers to all the questions are there, and for sure it's all been tried before.
For casual street use, a less substantial box would be enough, a racing cage would of course be much more robust, heavier and neccessarily torsionally stiffer, some survivability built in. Twelve hundred horsepower turbo engine in an 1800 lb racecar would be very quick, if kept under control, while racing.
Looking forward to the solutions and installations of the drivetrain and suspension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIKHocge9Sc


Posted by: tazz9924 Jun 28 2020, 05:55 PM

I have an easily digestible build up date in the form of a youtube video!

I also have a good regular update coming up!

Posted by: EdwardBlume Jun 28 2020, 09:47 PM

Damn this thread is sexy! beer3.gif

Posted by: andrewb Jun 29 2020, 07:37 AM

I always love the famous 'can do' attitude of you Americans. No surprise that there have been so many amazing achievements that depended on guts and determination.

I was already gobsmacked (that's a good old English word) when this thread started that someone could just kick off with a bare garage floor and build a tubeframe chassis from nothing. Just for kicks he then moves to a psychedelic chamber - to make it even harder ??

And then the welding mask comes off .................and he's young enough to be ....I dunno, I give up. Utmost respect to you Elliott - how you've achieved those skills and depths of understanding in such a short time I'll never know. I wonder what you'll be achieving in 10 more years. Keep it up.

Regards

Andrew

Posted by: tazz9924 Jun 29 2020, 11:39 AM

QUOTE(andrewb @ Jun 29 2020, 05:37 AM) *

I always love the famous 'can do' attitude of you Americans. No surprise that there have been so many amazing achievements that depended on guts and determination.

I was already gobsmacked (that's a good old English word) when this thread started that someone could just kick off with a bare garage floor and build a tubeframe chassis from nothing. Just for kicks he then moves to a psychedelic chamber - to make it even harder ??

And then the welding mask comes off .................and he's young enough to be ....I dunno, I give up. Utmost respect to you Elliott - how you've achieved those skills and depths of understanding in such a short time I'll never know. I wonder what you'll be achieving in 10 more years. Keep it up.

Regards

Andrew

I appreciate the kind words, you have a good one!

Posted by: tazz9924 Jun 29 2020, 11:43 AM

Ok this is the last update for probably a couple weeks because i have to go racing in wyoming, but, i settled on a design to tie in the rear subframe. This involved one tube bend and then notched in three places. I didn’t know if id like it going in, but it came out killer. Thanks to my chassis builder friend who suggested the idea, then helped me build it!
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Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 29 2020, 02:02 PM

Are you back in Tacoma?

Posted by: tazz9924 Jun 29 2020, 07:08 PM

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jun 29 2020, 12:02 PM) *

Are you back in Tacoma?

No NC i wont be back till december

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