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Posted by: cuddy_k May 10 2020, 09:59 AM

The time has come to tell this story.

As some of you may remember, back in the fall I put out an APB for someone to help me rescue an engine from a shop in North Carolina. I don’t believe in posting unfavorable reviews of businesses publicly until they’ve had a chance to make good...and the full story has unfolded. I could go on with the boring details forever, but I’ll try to keep things as brief as possible. Or you can just skip to the last paragraph.

In May of last year, I saw a craigslist ad for a bumblebee roller in primer. I’d been looking for a car I could build a video series around, and this seemed perfect. It turns out the owner was John Forbes, who has a 914 pedigree.

EDIT: The original version of this post referenced Black Forest Racing - a company John started years ago. His son took over the company in 2017 and John is no longer affiliated - though he didn't go out of his way to point this out. He currently does business as "John's Speed and Custom Shop"

We had a series of really enjoyable conversations and he told me this car was “the most soild and straight 914 he’d ever seen”. He bought it about 10 years ago and kept it to build for himself, but life got in the way. His asking price seemed fair, so I wired the funds and he fedexed the title.

As we talked further about the car, he said he would love to rebuild the engine…and gave me a great price. His motors have won races, so I gladly agreed. I wired half the dough for the build and also sent some new parts to him. He showed me pics of the case split. We also talked about having the car painted (to an OEM level-not concours) in North Carolina, since it would probably be simpler than NY. John said he had a “great guy”…and would love to oversee the painting since he was so attached to the car. He asked for a 50% deposit on the paint and sent me some progress photos. Two weeks later he asked for the balance (which I sent), and texted some more pics…although somewhat few and far away…but he raved over the phone about how great the car looked. At this point he had almost all of the money in this deal…in cash and parts I sent.

Then things changed.

John became harder to reach, and he missed multiple dates to deliver the car (part of the deal was that he would trailer it to my garage). The engine sat, half-built for months. Finally, John promised he’d deliver the car on Sunday, September 8th, but when I called the day before to ask what time he’d arrive, he told me he couldn’t make it. I told him I was flying down to NC and would see him on Monday.

I walked in to the shop and the first thing I saw was my engine, still unfinished and untested. As I turned to see the car, my jaw hit the floor. Paint was bubbling on the deck lid, there were scratches from coarse sanding, and smudges and runs everywhere. I asked John how he could even set a delivery date when the two-month old paint had major issues and the engine wasn’t running. He didn’t really have an answer, but promised he would make things right. Here are just a couple of pics. Of course, I have video




I’m often trusting to a fault…but especially when it comes to the 914 community. I had let my guard down on this bumblebee and I got stung. My choice at this point was to either pull everything out of his shop and lick my wounds…or give John an opportunity to make amends. I figured I had nothing further to lose, so I chose the latter, though, tellingly, he said he couldn’t give me any money back on the paint. He actually said “the painter ripped us both off.”

For the next few weeks, John did seem to be more attentive. He paid for a mobile blast service to strip the bubbling paint and took the car to a friend who was a “body man” to fix some things (about $ 500 worth). Then, as September turned to October, the ghosting began again. When we did speak, details were scant. He was even reluctant to tell me exactly where the car was! All the while he was supposed to be working on the engine. He told me “it’s all together, turning over and almost ready to fire…you’ll hear it run tomorrow” at least five times. It’s just a 2.0 with 96mm pistons to make it a (D-Jet) 2056 and it was now going on 6 months. The final excuse was that he didn’t have a good fuel injection harness to test with.

Around Thanksgiving communication came to a dead stop, with numerous emails and calls unreturned for nearly a month. When I finally reached him, he apologized again and said he wouldn’t be able to get the engine running until some other work came in. At that point I realized that I immediately needed to get the engine, the parts and the car, which was in Winston-Salem, back to my garage.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=283 was kind enough to pick up the engine and I arranged to get everything trucked up to NY. Thanks, Joe for being a great example of what this community is really about.

I sent the car off to my body and paint guy who literally shook his head when he saw it. I took inventory of all the parts and let John know which ones were missing (some LE-specific)…but it’s now May and I still haven’t heard back from him. I don’t expect to.

Given everything I’d experienced, I thought it would be a good idea to give the engine a closer look before I invested further time and money. I knew that John would be re-using some parts, provided they were in good shape, but I was pretty shocked at what I discovered….in order, and with some pics:

– The valve covers have gasket adhesive “webs” inside the cavities.
– The pushrod tube retaining wires are missing
– The 3-4 cylinders are not on an even plane, so no way the heads can seal.



– Head gaskets were installed
– The deck height is excessive and inconsistent (ranging from .080 to .100, not including the head gaskets.)
– The #4 register has dropped by about .020, causing the sealing issues and deck height variance.
– The cam shaft is worn.



– No crush washer / felt ring was installed on the used, unturned flywheel. The brand new clutch and –pressure plate I sent were bolted up to this. Also the o-ring and bearing aren't fresh.



– The crank end play was basically zero. So tight that the shims are imprinted and concave.
– The MPS which came with the 2.0 engine is for a 1.7.
– Only about a quart of break in oil was in the engine.

As for the heads, it doesn't look like there are any cracks, but the valve job is poor. This pic shows the #4 intake valve sitting lower, which could indicate a bunch of issues and result in unequal combustion chamber volume.



Needless to say, I now need to split the case and start from scratch. There’s no way this engine would’ve run. If it had, it wouldn’t have run well…or for long.

I’ve been in the service business for 35 years and dealt with lots of people, but this situation has perplexed me. John’s a great guy to chat about 914s with and I honestly don’t believe that he intended to deceive. Though he could have duped me. Perhaps he just doesn’t deal with challenges well...or circumstances have caused him to lose a step. However you loook at it, he certainly wasn’t forthcoming or proactive in a meaningful way.

Others may disagree, but in my experience, the quality of his work is grossly unprofessional and sub-par. He was laser-focused on receiving deposit money, but not nearly as much about finishing the job. Could my experience be a fluke? Maybe. But I care about this community enough to share this story so that others can approach Mr. Forbes and his "Speed and Custom shop with their eyes open.

As I write about this, I realize that my issue is less about what happened and more about how John handled it. Car restoration always has bumps in the road. If he had been more transparent, communicative and collaborative, I’m sure we could’ve worked things out more positively.

The good news is that nothing he did or didn’t do is permanent. The bumblebee is well on its way to being awesome. And I’ll be creating videos of every step along the way. Engine suggestions and help welcome!

Caveat emptor…

Ian

Posted by: Bleyseng May 10 2020, 10:09 AM

Well that was hard to read and sorry for your bad experience....sheesh.

Posted by: mepstein May 10 2020, 10:14 AM

QUOTE(Bleyseng @ May 10 2020, 12:09 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy May 10 2020, 10:18 AM

I'm like you; too trusting. Sad that it's so difficult to find a reliable shop. I got ripped off on a '53 Suburban hot build to the point that I decided I'd just have to learn to do things myself.
Problem is, I have too many cars I'd like to build. I'd be happy to pay someone else for a build but I worry I'd be disappointed.

I will say that I appreciate you sharing your experience but mostly, I admire your attitude and stick-to-it-ism and commitment to complete your BumbleBee!

Looking forward to watching your build!

Posted by: rjames May 10 2020, 10:20 AM

Wow. I don’t know that if that had happened to me that I could’ve told the story in the same calm and gracious manner that you did.

Can’t wait to see the final build, glad it’s in good hands now!

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 10 2020, 10:21 AM

Stories like this are what make me OCD about trying to do everything myself.

The good news is that car and parts are now in your control Ian. Persevere!

Posted by: billh1963 May 10 2020, 10:27 AM

I've had a couple of negative experiences with the shop in question. Fortunately, they were minor.

At least one other person on this forum had a VERY expensive bad experience.

Posted by: BeatNavy May 10 2020, 10:33 AM

I guess there are two broad kinds of vendors in this world: those that intentionally burn customers, those that do not. Of the latter most of the time it's because they do not know how to set expectations properly or deal with issues that invariably arise.

Particularly in the car world it's a rare vendor that handles problems effectively and transparently with the customer. And that's why, as others have said, I'm trying to do everything myself

I hope things are getting better now, Ian. Onward and upward.

Posted by: ejm May 10 2020, 11:59 AM

Ian - I've still got those parts we talked about set aside.

Posted by: 76-914 May 10 2020, 12:00 PM

Wow Ian! You've the patience of Jobe. More importantly your attitude has remained intact. In years past I've had employees that experienced big changes in their performance. It has been my experience that it was always one of two things.

Posted by: preach May 10 2020, 12:55 PM

Very well said Ian. I am sure there is more to the story but the high road you have taken is exemplary.

Good luck with the Bumble, my 914 stuff is minimal but it is yours if I can offer it.

Additionally, I love the vids. Basic? Sure, but well done and I watch them all.

Dan
preach
gnrrpreacher
@ridgerunner914

Posted by: 911GT2 May 10 2020, 12:57 PM

Sorry to read this. With my ordeal fresh in mind, I know how it feels to have have money somewhere and not be able to get through to the guy you need.

Hopefully this gets sorted soon now it's in other hands.

Posted by: cuddy_k May 10 2020, 01:04 PM

Thanks, Guys. I don't know if I'm all that patient. The nice thing about time is that it removes the heat of the moment from the situation, leaving only the cold hard facts.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=17042 - I totally agree. One the one hand, there are shops which intentionally look to rip people off. On the other, there are shops who believe they're doing the right thing, but there's so much gray area in the auto resto world that they never communicate enough to make sure their expectations are in sync with their customers. As you can hopefully tell...I like to be clear in my communication. I, also do as much as I can myself (and hopefully encourage others with my videos). Now, if only I had a paint booth....

I'm not sure where BFR stands on the spectrum, but I do know that I got burned for the cost of the paint, which needs to be taken completely down, plus the money I gave him for the engine "work", and 10 months of time and aggravation. That's unacceptable by any measure or expectation.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11513 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=224 -thanks again for your generosity. Will be in touch! I'm so fired up to make this car awesome. This BFR experience is totally in the rear view mirror, but I wanted to tell the story for the benefit of others...

Posted by: jagalyn May 10 2020, 01:26 PM

You've got a good heart Ian... Blessings.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 10 2020, 01:36 PM

I had a similar experience with John. He needed some 356 parts for a Speedster he was working on and offered a B Coupe body he had on top of one of his trailer boxes as a trade. I said ok, sent him his parts and told him I would be down at some point to get the body, he said no rush, it's not going anywhere. Fast forward a few months, I see on Instagram he's loading the B body on a trailer, he sold it. I asked why he was selling my car, he said I never came for it. Oh well, I was out the parts, lesson learned.
He actually had the gall to call me about a year later needing some 356 parts for an A Coupe, he said he would make it right on the other parts. I said nope, nope, nopity, nope, find your 356 stuff somewhere else.
Haven't heard from him since.

Posted by: cuddy_k May 10 2020, 01:53 PM

Wow. So...he didn’t think to call and ask if you were picking up the car. Just sold it and hoped you wouldn’t notice. Sounds about right. As long is it works for him, it’s good. Funny how he miraculously found your number when he needed something...

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 10 2020, 02:01 PM

QUOTE(cuddy_k @ May 10 2020, 11:53 AM)

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 10 2020, 04:44 PM

OMG Ian....I was having a ground hog day moment as I read your thread. I am so sorry you had to go through that mess. The good news is it is behind you now and your build can move forward and you will have the car you wanted. It is especially hard when someone you thought was a friend burns you like that. You handled that like a boss. I can't wait to see the progress pics of your build. Michael

Posted by: JOEPROPER May 10 2020, 05:06 PM

Hey Ian, that's some awful story. It's really too bad that that went that way. I can't say that everyone would have handled it with the class that you did, but good thing is that the car is back with you and you can move on from this learning experience.
I don't know who you're using for autobody or engine work, but if you need a recommendation, let me know. I know a few local guys that could help you out. Good luck moving forward and if there is anything I can do to help, let me know. I look forward to watching the progress on this one. Good luck.

Posted by: bdstone914 May 10 2020, 05:12 PM

In the end I think John will be the one who gets stung worse. It is a small world of 914 owners and word travels fast. At least what you gave is fixable.
And as you can see how much help and support you will get here.
Just curious did you give him a Yelp review?

Posted by: mepstein May 10 2020, 05:35 PM

Unfortunately, this isn’t the first Fuch up that I’ve heard from his shop.

Posted by: cuddy_k May 10 2020, 07:31 PM

QUOTE(bdstone914 @ May 10 2020, 07:12 PM)

Posted by: SO.O.C914er May 10 2020, 07:34 PM

Happened to me back in 2015 in trusted my 73 to a guy Glenn- nineonefour in LA took my car after being on blocks since 1987. Screwed me good on the new motor which I had to replace 3 months later and he wouldn’t stand behind his work. Screwed a couple more people then disappear....it hurts and is sad bout it happens all the time.

Posted by: TonyA May 10 2020, 07:55 PM

Wow Ian you have the patience of a saint. I think I would have ordered a blanket party for the guy Hey I know a guy that knows a guy..... forgetaboutit. Looking forward to the continuing BB videos. I am starting on a BB also.

Posted by: daraho9146 May 10 2020, 09:49 PM

QUOTE(TonyA @ May 10 2020, 07:55 PM)

Wow Ian you have the patience of a saint. I think I would have ordered a blanket party for the guy Hey I know a guy that knows a guy..... forgetaboutit. Looking forward to the continuing BB videos. I am starting on a BB also.

Posted by: cuddy_k May 10 2020, 10:22 PM

Sorry you went through that with your -6. Ugh. Not surprising, given what i know now.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20596 you are too funny. i never heard the term "blanket party" but I love it. Is that Phlly thing?

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19387 thanks for offering to make some reccos. I definitely need a machinist for this case. Will call you this week.

Posted by: Larmo63 May 10 2020, 11:32 PM

This story immediately reminded me of Michael's Scotty B fiasco.

We need to start a GoFundMe here so we can see your new cool videos sooner.

It would be kind of like paying an admission fee to see a good movie.

Posted by: EdwardBlume May 10 2020, 11:56 PM

Damn... sorry to see this. Your perseverance is inspiring and will continue to serve you well. May the next one pay you back in spades....

Posted by: banananose914 May 11 2020, 12:10 AM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ May 10 2020, 10:32 PM)

Posted by: cuddy_k May 11 2020, 09:04 AM

Yep. Integrity is in short supply these days. I'm a big believer in karma, though. Or should I say car-ma? (props to 914Rubber's slogan)....

Posted by: 76-914 May 11 2020, 10:54 AM

QUOTE(banananose914 @ May 10 2020, 11:10 PM)

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ May 10 2020, 10:32 PM)

This story immediately reminded me of Michael's Scotty B fiasco.

We need to start a GoFundMe here so we can see your new cool videos sooner.

It would be kind of like paying an admission fee to see a good movie.

If a person says they’re going to do something, then f-ing do it.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 11 2020, 11:54 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ May 11 2020, 08:54 AM)

QUOTE(banananose914 @ May 10 2020, 11:10 PM)

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ May 10 2020, 10:32 PM)

This story immediately reminded me of Michael's Scotty B fiasco.

We need to start a GoFundMe here so we can see your new cool videos sooner.

It would be kind of like paying an admission fee to see a good movie.

If a person says they’re going to do something, then f-ing do it.

That's called accountability or living as your word and it is on the endangered species list Jim.

Posted by: ValcoOscar May 11 2020, 12:47 PM

Ian-
I am sorry for what you have been through so far on your Bumble Bee project. I don’t wish to reopen wounds from my past dealings with fellow “Porsche friends”. My guess is that we’ve all been stung in our past. But, we learn, we regroup and move on. For me, life is too short to dwell on past bad experiences. Thank you for sharing, hope it saves someone else from being stung. You’re a stand-up guy and I feel fortunate to have spent some time with you on your West Coast visits , Stay positive!!!! Please keep your videos coming!!!

Rock on with your BUMBLE BEE!!!

Your Pal,

Oscar

Posted by: Sprout May 11 2020, 02:25 PM

Sorry to hear this happened to you! Thanks for sharing your story, though, as it will definitely help others. Lots of time and money gone, but at least you got your project back (or most of it, anyway) and are forging ahead. Can't wait to see it finished!

Posted by: cuddy_k May 11 2020, 02:43 PM

Thanks so much, guys. The outpouring of support is really heartwarming and much appreciated.

@Valcooscar...I'm so grateful for you, our friendship, and everything you do for this community. I totally agree that life is WAY too short. Resentment or anger tends to only affetct the person generating those feelings. the people you're angry with are just going on with their lives, unaffected...so it only hurts yourself. It's best to get the poison out early and leave it in the past. Wish I knew that when I was 20.

The bumblebee is currently at a great shop in Da Bronx. I'm in the process of restoring the dash and rebuilding the engine while I wait for paint. New parts from 914rubber have already started rolling in and I'm planning the episodes. Thanks everyone for watching. Please subscribe if you haven't already!

Ian

Posted by: mepstein May 11 2020, 04:36 PM

Ian - Are you going to post on pelican.

Posted by: 914_7T3 May 11 2020, 05:13 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ May 11 2020, 03:36 PM)

Posted by: cuddy_k May 11 2020, 05:37 PM

I so rarely go on pelican that i didn't think about it...but yes, I will. Samba and FB too.

I feel same as you, Jeffrey. Sucks that these guys rip people off and too few publicly complain. It's important to, though, as comments live on in cyberspace forever.

It's not that small claims isn't my style. Been there / done that. In my experience the max judgement vs the ROI of time and aggravation just isn't worth it. Especially since he's in NC. If you or someone here has suggestions for how to file a case from afar, I'm all ears. Maybe just being served would incentivize him to mensch-up. I do have extensive records .

In the meantime, I'm continuing to push him to deliver the missing parts, but as I said, I'm not expecting much.

Posted by: JRust May 11 2020, 11:04 PM

Damn I feel your pain & have been there myself. Ironically it was when I was restoring my LE Creamsicle where I had similar issues. Not with John but there is a link. I sold John from Black Forest Racing a different creamisicle that was one Vin # off bumblebee. So I made him a deal on it & shipped it to him. That was a good 10 years ago I'd say. I got the creamsicle I sold him from a guy who screwed me on my motor. This was after I got screwed over by the guy who painted my car. I took it to a guy who was recommended to me. I just couldn't get it running. He was supposed to be a FI guru. Anyway guy had it about 18 months & had left my car outside in the rain. By the time I finally went & picked up my car & motor which still did not run. I had rust coming through my what should have been fresh paint. In my floor pan from water sitting inside it. As well as the rear trunk from water sitting inside. Took it home & fixed the paint. Took it to McMark who had my car running in 2 days. To make a long story longer. I'd become so disillusioned with my LE I sold it at a loss. Just because I couldn't enjoy it. To many bad memories

So I feel your pain & am so glad you finally got your car back. Live & learn for us all

Posted by: Big Len May 12 2020, 08:57 AM

You're a better man than me Ian for the restraint you showed in posting this. I would have been downright hostile.

Time for Black Forest Racing to make reparations and pull themselves out of the Scumbag Hall of Fame.

Posted by: SirAndy May 12 2020, 09:27 AM

QUOTE(cuddy_k @ May 10 2020, 08:59 AM)

Posted by: cuddy_k May 12 2020, 10:27 AM

QUOTE(Big Len @ May 12 2020, 10:57 AM)

Posted by: BeatNavy May 12 2020, 10:43 AM

Well done, Ian. It's a fine line between doing public service and airing a vendor's dirty laundry unfairly. I think you navigated it nicely.

Posted by: Eric_Shea May 12 2020, 10:51 AM

Similar experience with my 2.5 engine that was a Black Forest build.

Calipers are on the house for this car to help make up for your losses.

Posted by: Porschef May 12 2020, 10:55 AM

Posted by: mepstein May 12 2020, 11:08 AM

From what I hear, this has been going on for years. Just like Motor Meister, guys in this industry seem to be able to operate on this level and not much ever happens. Just like the 914 shop in Virginia where Cairo and I got scammed, they do some easy work for friends who then defend them while they are pushing out crap to the paying customers.

I met John at octeenerfest. He’s a great guy to sit around with in the evening and listen to stories. He knows all the other Porsche guys that have been around forever. But he’s scamming people out of a lot of money. If he’s not doing it purposely, he’s obviously incompetent to run a business and take peoples money.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 12 2020, 11:32 AM

QUOTE(mepstein @ May 12 2020, 09:08 AM)

Posted by: eric9144 May 12 2020, 11:49 AM

QUOTE(mepstein @ May 12 2020, 10:08 AM)

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 12:43 PM

Hey everybody, I was just made aware of this thread and something here needs to be cleared up. This has **NOTHING** to do with Black Forest Racing. The John Forbes in question here was fired from Black Forest Racing in 2017. This transaction was with him and his new business, John's Speed and Custom which operates next door to us. Issues like these are why I could not have him around anymore.

I feel for you, and I'm terribly sorry this happened, but I cannot have my business slandered. Black Forest Racing has **NOT** been involved in any restoration/paint work of any 914 since 2016. We do mostly newer cars, but I am a 914 fan (I inherited my mothers Bumblebee when she passed in 2002 and still have it) so I do still take in one from time to time for mechanical work.

John owned BFR from 1979-2014 and as such his name is deeply associated. 95% of customers were happy during those 35 years, but as John got older he started taking more and more shortcuts to make up for his declining health. This came to a head 5 years ago and got to a point where I couldn't keep him around any longer. Unfortunately, he rented a bay next to us which I can't control and this leads people to believe he is still associated with us, but he is not.

-John Cody Forbes (I go by Cody)

Posted by: 914_7T3 May 12 2020, 12:53 PM

Just so I follow.....You fired your Dad, who founded the company who also happens to occupy the bay next door in an unaffiliated Porsche business. Furthermore, you also claim to have no association with him. That's gonna be a tough sell.....IMHO.

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 12:56 PM

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 01:06 PM

QUOTE(914_7T3 @ May 12 2020, 02:53 PM)

Just so I follow.....So you fired your Dad, who founded the company who also happens to occupy the bay next door in an unaffiliated Porsche business. Furthermore, you also claim to have no association with him. That's gonna be a tough sell.....IMHO

Posted by: naro914 May 12 2020, 02:07 PM

Hi all,
I can personally vouch for Cody here. Some of you that have known me for a long time know of the issues I had with John Forbes through the years. I went MANY years without even talking to him I was so pissed off at him. Cody was not around then - he was working at other places including GMP Performance (for those that know the Charlotte area). A few years back, he came to take over Black Forest Racing from John... and YES, he fired John. Not that John was actually working on anything at the time, but yes, he was told to not work with the business and Cody any more. Yes, they are right next door to each other (that in itself is a novel of a book to disucss over beers) but John does whatever he's doing, and Cody runs Black Forest Racing. In fact, the company of Black Forest Racing International (John's company) was dissolved and the new company is technically JCForbes LLC dba Black Forest Racing. So yes, a completely new company not associated with John.

I know all of this as fact because 1) my business NaroEscape Motorsports is across the parking lot from him, and 2) I help Cody out with the business from time to time making sure everything stays legal and above board. Cody is WAY more honest and WAY better of a mechanic than his father. He works on all our personal cars from our 914's to our GT3 (I think he did stuff on the GTI too). John is not allowed to touch any and is quite honestly not allowed to touch ANY Black Forest Racing cars.

Is it an odd arrangement? yes. But...if Black Forest Racing did work in the past couple years or does work into the future, you can be guaranteed that John Forbes did not and will not touch your car, only Cody or his mechanics (I've been known to hold tools now and then ;-) )

This is certainly one of the times when the kid took over and made the company better!

Posted by: naro914 May 12 2020, 02:38 PM

So I posted that about Cody before I read all the details of Ian's post. Ian...man I feel for you. I felt like I was reading MY story from many years ago!! And I live in NC and could go to see John and the car every day!! The end of it all was when we were signed up for a track weekend and John was re-building the engine for the 10th time or so (it wouldn't make it through a weekend without failing). we spent A TON of money trying to get it right. The week before he said "I'll have it ready on Monday". I gave him until Wednesday (Leaving for the track Thursday) and called him Tuesday afternoon to ask. "Sure, bring you're trailer we'll load it up" OK, so I did...and when I got there Wednesday night, not only was the engine not in the car, it was still in pieces on the workbench! John was eating a burger when I kept pushing him "WTF John!!" At one point I pushed a bit hard yelling LOUDLY and he got up, threw his chair across the room and yelled "Will you let me eat my F'ing dinner without you bothering me?"

At that, with one of his guys I boxed up all my stuff, pushed the car on the trailer, loaded up my engine parts, and left. Didn't talk to him for probably 7 years.

We ended up with a bigger engine, so I went to sell the parts and learned that none of them were what we paid for. Cams, heads, rods (which he still owes me money for), P&C's...nothing was the NEW stuff I bought.

So no, John has NOTHING to do with Cody's Black Forest Racing anymore, and hasn't for years. If he did, Cody would never see me or our cars (or anyone elses in the Charlotte area for that matter).

Posted by: gereed75 May 12 2020, 02:53 PM

Now that is an interesting turn of events.

....and now the rest of the story....

Posted by: JOEPROPER May 12 2020, 02:54 PM

Posted by: Larmo63 May 12 2020, 03:07 PM

Yikes!!!!

I have a lot of respect for Cody posting this. Wow.

Posted by: ValcoOscar May 12 2020, 03:12 PM

I'm awaiting an upcoming 20/20 episode.



Oscar

Posted by: 914werke May 12 2020, 03:16 PM

Ian Im sorry to hear this happened to you

Posted by: Eric_Shea May 12 2020, 03:23 PM

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 12 2020, 03:42 PM

I guess the question now is to the original poster, was he dealing with Black Forest Racing, or thought he was, or John Forbes. Who did he pay?
Going back through emails John was operating as Black Forest until at least 2015, that's my last email.

Posted by: Craigers17 May 12 2020, 03:52 PM

...Just to confuse things a bit more.... who is this guy? He says he's from Denver, NC too!

https://youtu.be/yYfUOoWgs_E



...For the love of Pete, you guys have a population of 2,300 people in your city, and, at least 3 shops that work on 914's....does everyone's brother-in-law own one?

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 04:00 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ May 12 2020, 05:42 PM)

Posted by: naro914 May 12 2020, 04:02 PM

QUOTE(Craigers17 @ May 12 2020, 05:52 PM)

...Just to confuse things a bit more.... who is this guy? He says he's from Denver, NC too!

https://youtu.be/yYfUOoWgs_E



...For the love of Pete, you guys have a population of 2,300 people in your city, and, at least 3 shops that work on 914's....does everyone's brother-in-law own one?

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 04:04 PM

QUOTE(Craigers17 @ May 12 2020, 05:52 PM)

...Just to confuse things a bit more.... who is this guy? He says he's from Denver, NC too!

https://youtu.be/yYfUOoWgs_E



...For the love of Pete, you guys have a population of 2,300 people in your city, and, at least 3 shops that work on 914's....does everyone's brother-in-law own one?

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 04:13 PM

With regards to comments about email addresses... right now anybody on the planet can make any email address they want. I can make an email address "BillGatesMicrosoft@gmail.com" and use it however I want. That doesn't make me the former CEO of Microsoft.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 12 2020, 04:16 PM

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 12 2020, 02:00 PM)

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ May 12 2020, 05:42 PM)

I guess the question now is to the original poster, was he dealing with Black Forest Racing, or thought he was, or John Forbes. Who did he pay?
Going back through emails John was operating as Black Forest until at least 2015, that's my last email.

As in my original post John was here through 2017. We split ways in April of 2017. I did not help myself by allowing the john@blackforestracing.com email address to stay active for a bit after that, but currently it auto-responds that he's not here any longer.

I have spoken with Ian on the phone at length over this and he understands the situation. Further, I was able to press my father to make contact with Ian.

I invite Ian to post photos of any receipts he has, or (obviously redacted) credit card statements showing the business name that charged him. They will say John's Speed and Custom on them, not Black Forest Racing. Actually I shouldn't say that factually, I don't know what name he has his banking stuff under to be honest... But i know it's not Black Forest Racing. John's Speed and Custom is what it says on the door of his building that Ian entered.

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 04:23 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ May 12 2020, 06:16 PM)

Posted by: Mikey914 May 12 2020, 04:31 PM

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 12 2020, 11:43 AM)

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 12 2020, 04:34 PM

Disinterested 3rd party.

Someone needs to move. I'm not sure who but the fact that you're each that close to each other's business can only lead to misunderstandings of this sort.

It is almost the same thing a a URL that changes only 1 character in the URL address to a common mispelling in order to ensnare the unsuspecting in malware, virus, or ransomeware attacks. I'm not saying that is the case. Only that you are too close for each others own good.

Posted by: cuddy_k May 12 2020, 04:36 PM

Wow. This bumblebee hive is abuzz!

First...I had a nice chat with Cody. There's no doubt in my mind that he's had a greater dose of John's BS than I have and it caused him to "fire" his Dad. However, John did not go out of his way to distance himself from Black Forest Racing. When we first did the deal, his email was johnblackforest@gmail.com. Funny how where the @ falls can make a huge difference. Kinda $hitty that he would do that after his son clearly broke ties, but...

Cody's shop is, in fact next door to John's (name du jour.) I remember meeting him when I went down there and he had some cool builds going on.

Cody says he laid into John when he read the thread a few hours ago. Tellingly, but not surprisingly, John didn't pick up the phone to call me. I know that if my son came in, fuming about how my behavior was impacting his business, I'd do whatever I could-as fast as I could-to make things right.

I clarified what went down and asked Cody for his help. About five minutes later, John called. I won't bore everyone here with the dozens of excuses (literally) that were flying, but the winner was "I haven't been able to get into my shop because of the Covid shutdown." He was CALLING from his shop! It's like he was trying to sell excuses like an old-timey barker hawking wares out of a suitcase. You want a tie? No? How about these warm socks? No? Here's a wonderful belt...

I've noticed that one telling behavior of people who frequently have conflicts is their speaking tone stays the same, even when the other person is yelling. (I don't scream-I just become very, very intense- though my wife calls it yelling). It's as if these people are so used to hearing that raised tone, it doesn't affect them anymore.

Anyway... John should finally understand that his time is up. But time will tell. He told me that he would go through his shop and send me the missing parts by the end of next week. As to compensation for the garbage paint job and other stuff, he says he will try to find some stuff of value he can offer to balance the deal. The refund train unfortunately left the station long ago. And I wouldn't want to potentially gut some other poor ba$tard's project...if he even has one. I just want this over and will take a fair trade.

Thankfully, Cody seems to understand all angles of this situation and has offered to do whatever he can to help keep John "honest". I'm going to edit the original post and make the distinction between "John Forbes" and "Black Forest Racing." Fair is fair. Especially since Cody also wants to see this resolved satisfactorily.

I did tell John that I would update this thread with what he said. And if he ghosted again, I'd post that too. I only wish I could've recorded the call...now THAT video could have gone viral.

I can't thank you all enough for the support. You guys rock.

Ian

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 04:44 PM

QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ May 12 2020, 06:34 PM)

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 12 2020, 04:58 PM

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 12 2020, 02:23 PM)

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ May 12 2020, 06:16 PM)

You are correct, it's literally right next door. Sounds like this isn't the first time you've had to clear the air on who Black Forest is, I don't envy you that.

If you only knew.

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 12 2020, 05:09 PM

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 12 2020, 06:44 PM)

Posted by: cuddy_k May 12 2020, 05:19 PM

Especially when there are videos like this out there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7mMaxJk6I

The title is "John Forbes Black Forest Racing - March 2019" and features him in a BFR jacket.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 12 2020, 05:32 PM

QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ May 12 2020, 03:09 PM)

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 12 2020, 06:44 PM)

I agree, but we are stuck in a situation where the location is great so neither wants to leave.

Fair point. But, if I were running a high class physical therapy & massage business right next door to a known whore house, I wouldn't be surprised if a customer or two came in every now and then expecting "full service".

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 12 2020, 05:35 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ May 12 2020, 07:32 PM)

Posted by: FlacaProductions May 12 2020, 05:45 PM

QUOTE(ValcoOscar @ May 12 2020, 02:12 PM)

I'm awaiting an upcoming 20/20 episode.



Oscar

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 05:50 PM

QUOTE(cuddy_k @ May 12 2020, 07:19 PM)

Especially when there are videos like this out there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7mMaxJk6I

The title is "John Forbes Black Forest Racing - March 2019" and features him in a BFR jacket.

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 05:57 PM

QUOTE(daraho9146 @ May 10 2020, 11:49 PM)

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 12 2020, 05:58 PM

Cease and desist order? Buyout?

4 or 5 Vallium with breakfast OJ?

Don't mean to be poking fun at a bad situation (well maybe a little - humor humor helps ease the pain). You've got a really bad situation on your hands.

Guilt by association isn't right especailly to the point of violence. I had a period where I didn't speak to my father for years and it was over a whole lot less than that. Had that happened to me I'd probably have then walked over to my fathers and beat him.

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 06:03 PM

QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ May 12 2020, 07:58 PM)

Cease and desist order? Buyout?

4 or 5 Vallium with breakfast OJ?

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 12 2020, 06:12 PM

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 12 2020, 08:03 PM)

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 12 2020, 06:23 PM

It sounds like Cody is having the same problem everyone else is, John's word doesn't mean much, he will promise to do something and then change his mind. I don't think any amount of signed paperwork will change that. Most signed documents are essentially Gentleman's Agreement's, meaning both men must be honorable.
I don't envy the situation he is in, the blurred lines are crazy.
In a perfect situation he would move, change the business name, and try to put as much distance between him and his father as he could. Except all that costs money, and owning a small business means money is not always flowing, especially not in a way to make a move like that. My guess is Cody plans to run out the clock with his dad, and let time take care of things. I wish him the best.

Posted by: cuddy_k May 12 2020, 06:35 PM

Wow, Cody. That's some intense shizz.

If it makes you feel any better, when I read "little boy mechanic" I didn't even consider that he was making a reference to you/John's son. I took it as an inexperienced young tech. But hearing your story about someone coming to your house and hurting you??? Wow. I'm so sorry that happened. Ugh.

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 12 2020, 06:38 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ May 12 2020, 08:23 PM)

Posted by: JohnBFR May 12 2020, 06:57 PM

Let's be real here... It's easy to talk about legal action etc on a forum, but in the real world would any of you actually be ready and willing to sick a lawyer on your own father?

Posted by: mepstein May 12 2020, 07:36 PM

Cody - Thank you for the explanation and we wish you the best.

Posted by: JRust May 12 2020, 09:06 PM

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 12 2020, 05:57 PM)

Posted by: billh1963 May 13 2020, 04:22 AM

What amazes me the most is John Sr has, apparently, been screwing over people for years....at least since Cody was young. However, he has apparently been able to keep enough business coming in to earn a living.

One would have thought his reputation would have caught up to him by now. Yet, people have been recommending him on this forum and other Porsche forums since I've been a member. I don't know if that means he can do some jobs well but gets in over his head on others or if some people have lower expectations and are easily satisfied.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 13 2020, 06:25 AM

QUOTE(billh1963 @ May 13 2020, 02:22 AM)

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 13 2020, 07:06 AM

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 12 2020, 08:57 PM)

Posted by: simonjb May 13 2020, 07:33 AM

John...So sorry to hear all of this.

A small token of similarity with our spouses...(I don't scream-I just become very, very intense- though my wife calls it yelling)

I tell her I am passionate...but I get the same reaction..

Posted by: JOEPROPER May 13 2020, 07:44 AM

It's tough to do business with family. 1st hand experience. There seems to always be issues that are more difficult to resolve.

Posted by: 76-914 May 13 2020, 08:09 AM

To John Jr.: You sound to me like an upstanding member of the community. It takes determination & courage to jump into a Gauntlet brimming with angry customers. You've clearly separated yourself & business from your Dad yet continues to wreak havoc upon your reputation. I won't forget this story and in the future should someone slander BFR I'll post a link to this conversation so that they can separate the wheat from the chaff themselves. BTW, sounds like you live in Porsche Heaven.

Posted by: SteveL May 13 2020, 09:05 AM

Cody - you need to change your name here from "JohnBFR" to "CodyBFR".

Posted by: naro914 May 13 2020, 09:09 AM

^^This

Posted by: sixnotfour May 13 2020, 09:17 AM

Posted by: Jamie May 13 2020, 09:39 AM

QUOTE(SteveL @ May 13 2020, 07:05 AM)

Posted by: JohnBFR May 13 2020, 09:40 AM

Re: the replies about my fathers tendency to screw people over:

From my point of view there's several factors, and it's never seemed to me to be purposeful. He gets in over his head on jobs and then has to cut corners to finish them. It's definitely been a thing that has grown worse over the years, and frankly no matter what in any business there will always be unhappy customers. In 1985 it was probably a tiny percentage of unhappy VS happy. In 1995 it was maybe 10%. In 2005 it was more like 20% and enough people were starting to have issues that it was having a serious effect and he knew it; he moved to NC at the behest of one of his friends from the 1980s who remembered the 'old john' and thought he could help do a reset and get back to the way things were. In 2008 my father was sitting at an intersection in a customer's 1971 911S and a teenager who was late to return a rental car came over the hill and rear ended the 911 so hard that the seat itself broke in half and my father hit the rear window. Ever since then he's had health issues that have slowed him down, but a) he won't actually revise his work habits to accept he can't get as much done, and b) he fell into using various health issues as a constant excuse for why he isn't getting things done, when in reality he's just wasting more time then working, but won't/can't acknowledge that. I'm certain that some percentage of it is legitimately that he's 70 and having been wrenching since he was 20 his body is just falling apart, but at the same time I see him doing other things that aren't productive with the time he does spend working. I belive that when he tells someone he will do xyz he believes he can and will, but then fails to put in the effort required or fails to accept that he doesn't actually have the money to do it. He absolutely 100% fails to understand that things are more expensive in 2020 than they were in 1985. In 2015 he quoted a customer $25,000 to buy a 914, 5 lug convert it, color change the body, install flares, color change the interior, AND INSTALL A 6CYL WITH A/C. He believes that a cheap paint job is $300, a good paint job is $1000, and you should win Amelia Island with a $2000 paint job. A donor 911 6cyl engine should be $1000, and a rebuild won't need new everything because it's not worn out because a 3.2 is "the new one", rather than understanding that it's a 35 year old antique with 200,000 miles. No amount of telling and showing him that's not the case seems to break through.

I knew Ians car's paint was crap because it was mentioned to me that my father found this new "awesome" painter that will paint a car for cheap and I was curious to see the result in case I needed a cheap paint job on a Chump/Lemons car or such. When it came back I went to look at it and it looked pretty decent, then a couple of weeks later it started bubbling. At that point my father has fucked himself and Ian over because now the car needs another paint job, Ian sure as hell shouldn't pay for it, and my father has no money to pay for it. It was his fault he didn't first quote Ian* what a reputable painter would charge, and it's his fault he didn't use a reputable painter, but now everybody is left unhappy. The same MO applies through the whole deal: each and every piece needed ends up costing far more than my father believes, so before long there's no money left and only half of the parts have been purchased and/or shitty Chinese/used parts are left. He doesn't set out from a place of "hmm how can I screw this person for a profit", he means well, but for fucks sake he can't learn that that ends up screwing everybody over even worse.

* - I don't have any knowledge of any dealings between Ian and my father, I'm just assuming from past experience that my father under quoted the job

Posted by: cuddy_k May 13 2020, 09:42 AM

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 12 2020, 08:57 PM)

Posted by: JohnBFR May 13 2020, 09:42 AM

QUOTE(Jamie @ May 13 2020, 11:39 AM)

QUOTE(SteveL @ May 13 2020, 07:05 AM)

Cody - you need to change your name here from "JohnBFR" to "CodyBFR".

This was my first thought suggestion, to creates some difference between the 2 Johns.

Posted by: cuddy_k May 13 2020, 09:50 AM

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 13 2020, 11:40 AM)

Posted by: cuddy_k May 13 2020, 09:50 AM

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 13 2020, 11:42 AM)

QUOTE(Jamie @ May 13 2020, 11:39 AM)

QUOTE(SteveL @ May 13 2020, 07:05 AM)

Cody - you need to change your name here from "JohnBFR" to "CodyBFR".

This was my first thought suggestion, to creates some difference between the 2 Johns.

I have tried, but I can't figure out how short of creating anew account. Like I said, I'm not a forum guy. It was suggested to contact an admin, but when I clicked the 'help' link there was just FAQ without any contact info.

Posted by: JohnBFR May 13 2020, 10:14 AM

QUOTE(cuddy_k @ May 13 2020, 11:42 AM)

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 12 2020, 08:57 PM)

Let's be real here... It's easy to talk about legal action etc on a forum, but in the real world would any of you actually be ready and willing to sick a lawyer on your own father?

You're right. Probably not. Especially if there were another way around this.

Cody...it's clear that you're a solid guy who's passionate about doing great work. I know you didn't ask for any advice, but I've owned a marketing company for 35 years and deal with challenges like this all the time. Since you're now officially One of Us, here's my 10K...er...02 cents .

Brand equity is all about new customers. Your existing ones will continue to come to you regardless of your company name.

Given that there are some people who’ve had negative experiences with that name before your leadership, and that John continues to at least sometimes blur the lines, resulting in bad word-of-mouth, I’m not sure how much “brand equity” there is to fight for. It can be very confusing to the public...and search engines...Especially when you’re both named John!-legally at least.

Consider how many new customers are coming to you because of the name/pedigree. If the answer isn't at least 95 X the number of those who might NOT come to you because of whatever your Dad has done / is doing, it’s a no-brainer. Change the name.

Aside from never having to police your dad or make excuses again, there are also other advantages to a name change...as it's much easier to get publicity / buzz about "news". And, with the exception of maybe New Coke, rebranding almost always re-energizes the company and boosts profits.

Thanks again for all your help with my deal. The bright spot of this whole situation is that this community now knows you. And, as you've probably already gathered, we look out for each other. Kent means it when he says he'll do what he can to help. We all will.

Ian

Posted by: SirAndy May 13 2020, 10:33 AM

QUOTE(cuddy_k @ May 13 2020, 08:50 AM)

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 13 2020, 11:42 AM)

QUOTE(Jamie @ May 13 2020, 11:39 AM)

QUOTE(SteveL @ May 13 2020, 07:05 AM)

Cody - you need to change your name here from "JohnBFR" to "CodyBFR".

This was my first thought suggestion, to creates some difference between the 2 Johns.

I have tried, but I can't figure out how short of creating anew account. Like I said, I'm not a forum guy. It was suggested to contact an admin, but when I clicked the 'help' link there was just FAQ without any contact info.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 - can you please fix?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 13 2020, 11:08 AM

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 13 2020, 07:40 AM)

Posted by: CodyBFR May 13 2020, 01:52 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ May 13 2020, 01:08 PM)

QUOTE(JohnBFR @ May 13 2020, 07:40 AM)

Re: the replies about my fathers tendency to screw people over:

From my point of view there's several factors, and it's never seemed to me to be purposeful. He gets in over his head on jobs and then has to cut corners to finish them. It's definitely been a thing that has grown worse over the years, and frankly no matter what in any business there will always be unhappy customers. In 1985 it was probably a tiny percentage of unhappy VS happy. In 1995 it was maybe 10%. In 2005 it was more like 20% and enough people were starting to have issues that it was having a serious effect and he knew it; he moved to NC at the behest of one of his friends from the 1980s who remembered the 'old john' and thought he could help do a reset and get back to the way things were. In 2008 my father was sitting at an intersection in a customer's 1971 911S and a teenager who was late to return a rental car came over the hill and rear ended the 911 so hard that the seat itself broke in half and my father hit the rear window. Ever since then he's had health issues that have slowed him down, but a) he won't actually revise his work habits to accept he can't get as much done, and b) he fell into using various health issues as a constant excuse for why he isn't getting things done, when in reality he's just wasting more time then working, but won't/can't acknowledge that. I'm certain that some percentage of it is legitimately that he's 70 and having been wrenching since he was 20 his body is just falling apart, but at the same time I see him doing other things that aren't productive with the time he does spend working. I belive that when he tells someone he will do xyz he believes he can and will, but then fails to put in the effort required or fails to accept that he doesn't actually have the money to do it. He absolutely 100% fails to understand that things are more expensive in 2020 than they were in 1985. In 2015 he quoted a customer $25,000 to buy a 914, 5 lug convert it, color change the body, install flares, color change the interior, AND INSTALL A 6CYL WITH A/C. He believes that a cheap paint job is $300, a good paint job is $1000, and you should win Amelia Island with a $2000 paint job. A donor 911 6cyl engine should be $1000, and a rebuild won't need new everything because it's not worn out because a 3.2 is "the new one", rather than understanding that it's a 35 year old antique with 200,000 miles. No amount of telling and showing him that's not the case seems to break through.

I knew Ians car's paint was crap because it was mentioned to me that my father found this new "awesome" painter that will paint a car for cheap and I was curious to see the result in case I needed a cheap paint job on a Chump/Lemons car or such. When it came back I went to look at it and it looked pretty decent, then a couple of weeks later it started bubbling. At that point my father has fucked himself and Ian over because now the car needs another paint job, Ian sure as hell shouldn't pay for it, and my father has no money to pay for it. It was his fault he didn't first quote Ian* what a reputable painter would charge, and it's his fault he didn't use a reputable painter, but now everybody is left unhappy. The same MO applies through the whole deal: each and every piece needed ends up costing far more than my father believes, so before long there's no money left and only half of the parts have been purchased and/or shitty Chinese/used parts are left. He doesn't set out from a place of "hmm how can I screw this person for a profit", he means well, but for fucks sake he can't learn that that ends up screwing everybody over even worse.

* - I don't have any knowledge of any dealings between Ian and my father, I'm just assuming from past experience that my father under quoted the job

Cody, I have to say that the John I dealt with went a little deeper than just mis-management and not being up on the times. He took my 356 parts in trade for a car body that he then went and sold it to someone else, and never paid me for the parts. That's not mis-management, that's just selling something twice. That's just fraud. Then he called me for more parts and said he would make it up to me on the other parts, when I told him I wanted to be paid for the first parts before we talked about more 356 parts, he declined. And unlike used 914 parts, used 356 parts are expensive, so I got screwed. He admitted he sold the body and kept my parts, and didn't want to make it right. So that's just plain screwing me, and I bet I'm not the only one who can tell a story like this.

Posted by: sixnotfour May 13 2020, 02:43 PM

Cody

Posted by: CodyBFR May 13 2020, 04:46 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ May 13 2020, 01:08 PM)

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 13 2020, 04:56 PM

I want to report to everyone that Cody has made me whole on the parts I sent to his dad in 2014. He didn't have to do this since he didn't take over the business until 2015, but he stood tall and made it right. Integrity in business is everything and Cody has it. I wish him the best of luck!

---Adam

Posted by: cuddy_k May 13 2020, 05:16 PM

What an awesome end to the 356 story. Cody is proof that the acorn can, indeed fall far from the tree. So glad it all worked out.

Fingers crossed my story ends this well! Will keep you posted...

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 14 2020, 08:21 AM

Man, sorry for all the problems you are going through Cody. You have been a stand-up guy in this whole thing and deserve respect for that. Making Adam whole, though not your responsibility, was the right thing to do. I hope your father stops doing deals and referencing your business in those deals.

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 14 2020, 03:41 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ May 14 2020, 10:21 AM)

Man, sorry for all the problems you are going through Cody. You have been a stand-up guy in this whole thing and deserve respect for that. Making Adam whole, though not your responsibility, was the right thing to do. I hope your father stops doing deals and referencing your business in those deals.