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Posted by: malcolm2 May 13 2020, 12:15 PM

I know I have read about this somewhere. Flywheel has a couple grooves. The top one can be felt with my fingernail. So what do you folks think?

Posted by: Mblizzard May 13 2020, 12:31 PM

Well as long as they are not super deep I say polish the out and run.

Posted by: malcolm2 May 13 2020, 12:46 PM

https://www.skf.com/binary/21-318152/810-701_CRSeals_Handbook__SKF_SPEEDI-SLEEVE_Apr-2018.pdf

anyone ever use something like this? I think Autozone has one too.

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 13 2020, 12:55 PM

Replace. You'll thank me later.

Posted by: cuddy_k May 13 2020, 12:59 PM

New ones aren't crazy expensive...and if you re-use that one, oil may get past the seal, creating a mess and ruining your clutch.

Posted by: IronHillRestorations May 13 2020, 01:30 PM

If you can feel it catch on a fingernail, it's a base for a homemade stand or scrap metal

Posted by: malcolm2 May 13 2020, 05:34 PM

Not mine, but here is the Autozone sleeve...

Mine is a type 4, but it is a bus flywheel. NLA at 200mm in the samba post, the dude said it added 0.5mm to the diameter and provides a proper surface friction vs a polish.

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 14 2020, 03:50 PM

There's always a po' man's shortcut. 914's are famous for it.

Usually a flywheel that is that worn on the sealing surface has other wear issues on the clutch surface.

I've been broker' than broke. I understand. I really do. But, penny wise pound foolish is also a lesson I've learned from the school of hard knocks!

It seems to me that three new failure modes have been added.

1) Eventual weepage between the sleeve and the flywheel. Tech sheet says: Pressure seal up to 50 psi: Suitable
for higher-pressure sealing applications; typical industrial shaft seals can handle only up to 5 or 10 psi. Should be OK. Won't have a gusher but I think weepage would still be a risk.

2) The added diameter of the sleeve will pre-load the RMS lip more and may accelerate the seal wear.

3) Position of the seal and the sleeve need to be set properly at install to allow for crank end play and the final at rest postion of the RMS such that the sleeve is always under the seal.

SKF is a decent company and probably has some testing behind these but I suspect they are intended for industrial maintenance scenarios where keeping equipment up and running is sometimes the critical task while proper replacement parts are ordered and then scheduled maintenance is done at a convenient time.

Any follow up on how this holds up over time would be cool! Always willing to learn if there is a better way.

Posted by: malcolm2 May 19 2020, 03:33 PM

No update on the sleeve. I will report here if I run across any news.

If I may, let's go to the other side of the FW. As I mentioned this is a TIV in a bus. The bus FW came in several friction surface diameters. The diameters got larger over the years. 200 then 210, 215 by late 73, then 228 for the Vanagon Aircooled.

Looks like the PO had a 215 mm FW and a 210 pressure plate and disk. Anyone see a benefit to doing that? Am I losing torque or power with that set up?

My FW is 215, should I get the 215 clutch?

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 19 2020, 04:26 PM

You're not going to like my response.

If your racing and have upped HP, have a V8 conversion, or something else, that will dictate different parts.

You're overthinking it. Put factory parts in it. Be done with it. It was an engineered system and works just fine when used as intended with stock or near stock motors.

Posted by: malcolm2 May 19 2020, 05:26 PM

They all are OEM parts. Someone just mixed them up. Maybe on purpose by some slick shop that knew no one would call him on it. Or a PO that didn’t measure or had a “that will work” attitude. It is obvious that they work. Question is: am i losing anything? For some reason VW made it all, what 2.5% bigger in 73 or 74. Why?

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 19 2020, 06:05 PM

Honestly I don't know. Perhaps someone can chime in with the 100% correct answer. As far as I know all 914's were 215 clutch and flywheel between all 1.7/1.8L/2.0L 4 cylinder engines.

Actually the area difference between a 215 and 210 is going to be closer to an 8% area (assuming inner radius of annular area stays constant) loss since area is a function of radius squared. So the question is would you want to lose 8% of surface friction area by going to the 210mm clutch. I wouldn't. I'd stay with what the factory engineerd.

Hope I'm not coming off as a jerk. That is not my intent. I'd just stay with an engineered system.

Posted by: malcolm2 May 19 2020, 08:02 PM

No offense taken. I agree. Any loss with a small engine is gonna be significant. Especially pushing a BUS. Already have a return set up with autohausAZ. Gonna swap my 210 pressure plate for a 215.

Thanks.

Posted by: Bleyseng May 19 2020, 10:59 PM

I think it's the 210 for the 1.7L, 215mm for the 1.8's and 228mm for the 2.0L which started in 76 thru 82.

Posted by: Mark Henry May 20 2020, 06:40 AM

You can offset the seal depth, but you can see this has already been done on the OP's fly.
I've never used a speedy sleeve, but you're actually suppose to cut the fly sealing surface down enough that once you install the speedy sleeve the end repair comes out at correct spec.

Here's a link that explains the https://type4secrets.blogspot.com/2017/08/tech-type-4-flywheels.html over the years and models.

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 20 2020, 11:14 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=26

Nice link. Thank you for sharing.

I always like when I learn something new about Type 4's.

Posted by: Mark Henry May 20 2020, 11:57 AM

That's originally Tunacan's T4 secrets from back in the late 90's. Tunacan was a mod on the shoptalk forums.

Posted by: MartyYeoman May 20 2020, 12:41 PM

I have used SpeedI-Sleeves in the past. You need to be careful when cutting it to the correct length, making sure the leading edge is free of any burrs. Any roughness can jeopardize the RMS lip. The seal seems to be able to take the larger ID just fine.