Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Overfilled the transmission
Posted by: AZBanks Jun 15 2020, 01:25 PM
I installed a replacement transmission in the 71.
I may have overfilled the trans. Would the excess trans oil leak out the axle and front seals or does the presence of leaks mean I need to replace the seals??
Posted by: 911GT2 Jun 15 2020, 01:29 PM
I installed a replacement transmission in the 71.
I may have overfilled the trans. Would the excess trans oil leak out the axle and front seals or does the presence of leaks mean I need to replace the seals??
Just open the fill plug while the car is level. When it stops draining you're on the right level. If it drains from somewhere else, you've got a leak.
Posted by: Frankvw Jun 15 2020, 01:30 PM
just take out the fillplug and let the surplus come out ? Can be messy, but maybe quickest solution ?
Posted by: GregAmy Jun 15 2020, 01:44 PM
I'm not sure how it's possible to overfill the transaxle unless you did it without it out of the car. You're pouring oil into the upper plug and once it starts to spill out you stop.
Did you attempt to fill via the vent on top of the transaxle?
Posted by: AZBanks Jun 15 2020, 02:21 PM
I'm not sure how it's possible to overfill the transaxle unless you did it without it out of the car. You're pouring oil into the upper plug and once it starts to spill out you stop.
Did you attempt to fill via the vent on top of the transaxle?
I was using a funnel that fit the fill hole really tight. I had the funnel angled up. When I pulled the funnel I got a lot of oil every where, If I had been thinking, I would have let the excess drain out. I was more worried about the mess so I put the drain plug in as fast as I could. It is not massively over filled, just a little. Maybe 1/4" above the bottom of the fill hole.
My main question is if just being overfilled would cause the leaks or if I need to replace the seals. I am only getting a few drops on the floor after a drive.
My initial guess is that I need to drain the new oil I just put in, replace the seals and then fill it again.
Posted by: GregAmy Jun 15 2020, 03:16 PM
I suppose it's possible that, with only "a few drops", it could just be splash overflow from the vent at the top.
Don't waste the oil you put in, try the easy stuff first. Simply let the car sit on the ground level, put a drain pan under the transaxle, and remove the fill (top) plug. Let it drain until it stops pouring out (it's not an exact science, just needs to be around the bottom level of the hole) and reinstall the plug. Then drive it.
Posted by: porschetub Jun 15 2020, 04:11 PM
Also make sure the top vent is clear....it could be blocked,not likely but worth checking.
Posted by: Tdskip Jun 15 2020, 04:29 PM
I suppose it's possible that, with only "a few drops", it could just be splash overflow from the vent at the top.
Don't waste the oil you put in, try the easy stuff first. Simply let the car sit on the ground level, put a drain pan under the transaxle, and remove the fill (top) plug. Let it drain until it stops pouring out (it's not an exact science, just needs to be around the bottom level of the hole) and reinstall the plug. Then drive it.
As Greg and others mentioned this is the way to do it.
Don't sweat it on it being exactly the perfect amount of oil in there, once it stops draining out on a level surface you are good.
Let us know how you get on.
Posted by: PlaysWithCars Jun 15 2020, 10:46 PM
Also make sure the top vent is clear....it could be blocked,not likely but worth checking.
Easy and free check. Is it leaking just sitting there or after driving? The vent only becomes a factor when driving and build temperature in the box.
Unfortunately, a slight overfill like you described shouldn't result in a leak. Suspect you have old seals that needs some love.
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 9 2020, 01:21 AM
The trans was leaking out of the input shaft seal.
How do you get the input shaft seal out of the front of the transmission?
Posted by: Tdskip Oct 9 2020, 06:07 AM
The trans was leaking out of the input shaft seal.
How do you get the input shaft seal out of the front of the transmission?
Need to separate the engine and transmission, then remove the throw out arm and bearing. Once you do that the seal area will be obvious.
Good thread with pictures here;
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=307564
Posted by: ndfrigi Oct 9 2020, 09:50 AM
The trans was leaking out of the input shaft seal.
How do you get the input shaft seal out of the front of the transmission?
where do you see the fluid? if coming on the bottom middle hole between transmission and engine, probably the rear main seal is the one leaking with engine oil since you also mentioned just a few drops after driving. Just another item to check also.
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 9 2020, 07:25 PM
Thanks for the suggestions.
It is the old seals that need some love or in this case, hate. I am going to kill them and replace them. 
I've already got the engine and trans apart and the throw out arm off. It is the seal itself I am having trouble with. It's like it is welded in place. 
I picked up a seal puller so hopefully that will get it out of there.
It is definitely the trans that is leaking. I filled the trans with Swepco and that is what I am seeing. You can't mistake that color for anything else. Several members here set me straight on the right oil to use in a 901 so I am draining the Swepco and filling it with good old dino 90 weight.
I replaced the engine rear main seal on this engine before I swapped it in a couple months ago.
Posted by: ndfrigi Oct 9 2020, 07:36 PM
Are you draining the gear oil? I don’t you need to drain, just raise the front side a little bit so the gear oil will be at the rear and while you are replacing the seal. I think swepco still a good gear oil for this tranny.
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 9 2020, 07:45 PM
Dr. Evil said not to use Swepco, He says the best oil for these old trans is old school 90 weight.
I drained the Swepco, It's only been in the trans for about 100 miles max. I am going to check the condition and if it is still clear/clean, I'm thinking about using it in the trans of my 90 944 S2.
I'm just not sure if that is a good idea. I don't want to trash my 944 trans just because I don't want to waste what could still be good oil.
Posted by: iankarr Oct 9 2020, 07:50 PM
Try putting a screw or two into the old seal to give you something to grab.
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 9 2020, 10:51 PM
I bought a cheap harbor freight seal puller. It worked great. I'd never heard of such a thing until I did a little snooping on youtube last night.
https://www.harborfreight.com/seal-puller-with-2-tips-63039.html
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 17 2020, 08:14 PM
In my "front engine 914" thread I documented that my car was upgraded to bmw 320i front brake calipers by some PO.
Some how, when I ordered the transmission seals I ended up with a 914 front seal and 2 320i output shaft seals.
I put in a new order and got the correct 914 output shaft seals.
I put them in, filled the transmission and put it back in the car. I got everything back together just in time to take it in for emissions testing to renew the registration.
AND...
It failed.
Loaded hydrocarbons was great ((138)362 under the limit of 500)
Idle hydrocarbons was terrible. ((1087)587 over the limit of 500).
Loaded CO barely failed. ((4.51).31 over the limit of 4.20)
Idle CO was good. ((4.55).95 under the limit of 5.50)
The carbs were tuned for the 1.8 I just pulled out of the car. I put them on the replacement 1.7 when I did the engine swap but never got around to tuning them for the car. I guess that is the next step...
Except, see below.
Emission testing was fun(NOT!)
I pulled in and two guys were working the bay. One skinny dude and one very not skinny dude. They both liked my car so they played "rock - paper- scissors" to see who got to drive it. Seriously???
The BIG guy won so he got in and gave it a shot. Dogleg 1st gear was not accessible due to his excess thigh circumference. He tried to get it rolling three times and they all failed with him lugging the engine to a stop in third gear.
So he extricates himself from the car and the skinny dude gets in.
No Start!!!
Turn the key.
NOTHING!!!
No click of the starter, nothing, just dead. I check everything and can find nothing wrong. I was thinking heat soaked solenoid or something.
So they help me push the car out of the bay and into the parking lot. I let it cool off for 30 minutes. NOTHING!
There was no prior indication that there was a charging issue but just to be on the safe side I had another of the workers try to give me a jump.
NOTHING! No change.
So I wait another 30 minutes and try to start it again.
NOTHING!!!!
Language not suitable for small children may have been spoken at this point.
Ok, plan "B". I try to bump start it.
BINGO, we have a winner. Fires right up and in an act of extreme bravery I turn it off to see if the problem is fixed. It IS!!! It restarts like a champ.
I jump out to close the engine lip and notice a couple fuses on the floor. I must have kicked them loose when I jumped in during the bump start. No biggy, The car is running, I'll fix them later when I get home. The car is running so it's all good. I drive back around to get in line and the car starts running rough and then just dies. It won't restart.
WTH??? What is wrong now? I start checking things and everything still looks good. Everything is good until I realize what I DON'T hear when I turn the key. I don't hear the fuel pump...
I wonder what the fuses I kicked loose are for. ???
You guessed it, I had kicked loose the fuel pump fuse. I put that back in place and immediately hear the fuel pump kick on. 10 seconds later it is running like a champ again. I pull back into the bay and they run the tests.
Aforementioned failure occurs.
More foul language may have been spoken.
I drove home and parked it in the garage.
I went out to check things a couple hours later.
I should keep a swear jar. I could retire much sooner.
%*&^$*&^#@)*^!$##@!!!!!
I have a small leak that looks like it is coming from the taco plate. Easy fix.
And I misspoke a few posts back. I did not replace the rear engine seal before the swap. I replaced the front engine seal before the swap. I didn't swap the RMS because there was no indication that it was leaking. Now I don't know.
There is oil leaking at the junction between the engine and trans so either the new trans input seal didn't get seated correctly and is leaking or the RMS is leaking. In either case, the whole thing has to come back out and be split apart.
On a positive note, The front of the engine is completely dry and the trans output shafts are completely dry.
Posted by: michael7810 Oct 18 2020, 07:36 AM
I had similar experience getting mine thru emissions 10 years ago and decided to register as a classic car and avoid the requirement. At the time Jack at Stuttgart had a 914 exhaust with a catalytic converter that he installed and it passed. I think it was only a couple hundred bucks, well worth the headache but since AZ requires a test every year I went the classic car route the next year.
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 19 2020, 02:00 AM
Arizona has seriously messed up classic car registration rules. You have to have classic car insurance to get a classic car registration. I can't find an insurance company who will do classic car insurance unless every licensed driver in the family has a daily driver. The insurance companies don't take into account that my son lives on campus and this car sits in the parking garage and doesn't move except when he takes it for a short drive once a week or so. So I am stuck dealing with emissions testing. I'm pretty sure I can get it to pass, if not, I will take it back to Don Jackson. He got the 1.8 liter engine that was in the car to pass.
I just pulled the transmission back out. I took out the clutch and pressure plate but then I took a closer look before removing the fly wheel. I didn't see any oil around the bottom of the case near the fly wheel so I slid a bunch of paper towel up behind the flywheel and scrubbed it against the case really well to see how much oil was leaking back in there. I pulled the paper towel out and it was bone dry. It was a bit dusty but not a drop of oil. The RMS is not leaking.
So my next thought was maybe the new front seal on the transmission didn't seal up properly so I pulled the shift fork, throw out bearing and cover tube off and the seal was dry.
It's not the RMS, it's not the transmission front seal, the only other place I saw oil was from the taco plate. Maybe it is leaking a little more than I thought. I'll put the trans back in and then reseal the taco plate and hopefully that is the end of the oil leaks at least for a little while.
Posted by: bandjoey Oct 19 2020, 11:37 PM
Just and FYI on insurance Haggerty never asked me about other drivers, just that the car was garaged, and I have another daily driver insured.
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 20 2020, 02:25 AM
Just and FYI on insurance Haggerty never asked me about other drivers, just that the car was garaged, and I have another daily driver insured.
Thanks for the info. I am going to have to check into that.
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 20 2020, 02:28 AM
Since the exhaust is off while the trans is out, I thought the exhaust could use a little love. It was looking pretty rough. 
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 20 2020, 02:30 AM
Nothing like a professional wrap job. 
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 20 2020, 02:31 AM
Yeah, really, this is NOTHING like a professional wrap job. A professional would not run out of new wrap two feet short of the goal. 
Posted by: VaccaRabite Oct 20 2020, 07:27 AM
Why did you wrap it?
That wrap holds oil and grease that inevitably drops on the exhaust. You don't have other parts you are protecting, the wrap is just extra weight and a smokey mess.
If you want to keep heat in the pipes - ceramic coat the pipes. I did that with my Eurorace header and it really worked!
Zach
Posted by: mrholland2 Oct 20 2020, 09:39 AM
In my "front engine 914" thread I documented that my car was upgraded to bmw 320i front brake calipers by some PO.
Some how, when I ordered the transmission seals I ended up with a 914 front seal and 2 320i output shaft seals.
I put in a new order and got the correct 914 output shaft seals.
I put them in, filled the transmission and put it back in the car. I got everything back together just in time to take it in for emissions testing to renew the registration.
AND...
It failed.
Loaded hydrocarbons was great ((138)362 under the limit of 500)
Idle hydrocarbons was terrible. ((1087)587 over the limit of 500).
Loaded CO barely failed. ((4.51).31 over the limit of 4.20)
Idle CO was good. ((4.55).95 under the limit of 5.50)
The carbs were tuned for the 1.8 I just pulled out of the car. I put them on the replacement 1.7 when I did the engine swap but never got around to tuning them for the car. I guess that is the next step...
Except, see below.
Emission testing was fun(NOT!)
I pulled in and two guys were working the bay. One skinny dude and one very not skinny dude. They both liked my car so they played "rock - paper- scissors" to see who got to drive it. Seriously???
The BIG guy won so he got in and gave it a shot. Dogleg 1st gear was not accessible due to his excess thigh circumference. He tried to get it rolling three times and they all failed with him lugging the engine to a stop in third gear.
So he extricates himself from the car and the skinny dude gets in.
Why on earth does a 1971 car have to do emissions testing? They didn't have emissions control when they were made. I'm so confused.
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 20 2020, 11:25 AM
In my "front engine 914" thread I documented that my car was upgraded to bmw 320i front brake calipers by some PO.
Some how, when I ordered the transmission seals I ended up with a 914 front seal and 2 320i output shaft seals.
I put in a new order and got the correct 914 output shaft seals.
I put them in, filled the transmission and put it back in the car. I got everything back together just in time to take it in for emissions testing to renew the registration.
AND...
It failed.
Loaded hydrocarbons was great ((138)362 under the limit of 500)
Idle hydrocarbons was terrible. ((1087)587 over the limit of 500).
Loaded CO barely failed. ((4.51).31 over the limit of 4.20)
Idle CO was good. ((4.55).95 under the limit of 5.50)
The carbs were tuned for the 1.8 I just pulled out of the car. I put them on the replacement 1.7 when I did the engine swap but never got around to tuning them for the car. I guess that is the next step...
Except, see below.
Emission testing was fun(NOT!)
I pulled in and two guys were working the bay. One skinny dude and one very not skinny dude. They both liked my car so they played "rock - paper- scissors" to see who got to drive it. Seriously???
The BIG guy won so he got in and gave it a shot. Dogleg 1st gear was not accessible due to his excess thigh circumference. He tried to get it rolling three times and they all failed with him lugging the engine to a stop in third gear.
So he extricates himself from the car and the skinny dude gets in.
Why on earth does a 1971 car have to do emissions testing? They didn't have emissions control when they were made. I'm so confused.
Because Arizona has stupid emissions control laws.
Posted by: AZBanks Oct 20 2020, 01:47 PM
Why did you wrap it?
That wrap holds oil and grease that inevitably drops on the exhaust. You don't have other parts you are protecting, the wrap is just extra weight and a smokey mess.
If you want to keep heat in the pipes - ceramic coat the pipes. I did that with my Eurorace header and it really worked!
Zach
The exhaust was wrapped when I bought the car but it was a horrible job. It was loose in spots and wrinkled in others so I took it off. The bare pipes didn't look any better.
I wanted do something to make it look half-way presentable so I painted it with black high temp engine paint and wrapped it.
I know the "high temp" paint may not stand up to the extreme heat of the exhaust but it can't look any worse than it was before.
I have replaced all the engine and transmission seals and gaskets before I put the transmission back in the car. The RMS is not leaking so i am leaving that alone. I will replace the strainer seals once I have the transmission back in the car.
With all new seals and gaskets I expect it will be at least 64.8 to 65 miles before any oil or grease starts leaking and getting on the wrap.
This is really just a middle of the road cosmetic solution. I didn't see the need to spend the $$ to have it coated (It is just a basic driver, not a race car) and I didn't want to leave it looking like crap so this was the quick, easy, and inexpensive solution.
Posted by: AZBanks Nov 1 2020, 01:12 AM
I got the trans back in the car and everything else put back together.
I may have a small leak around the shift input console. 
Posted by: AZBanks Dec 7 2020, 05:47 PM
Just and FYI on insurance Haggerty never asked me about other drivers, just that the car was garaged, and I have another daily driver insured.
I just applied with Haggerty. They wanted details on all drivers in the household.
They denied coverage because there too many drivers and not enough other daily drivers.
Posted by: 914e Dec 7 2020, 10:30 PM
Just and FYI on insurance Haggerty never asked me about other drivers, just that the car was garaged, and I have another daily driver insured.
I just applied with Haggerty. They wanted details on all drivers in the household.
They denied coverage because there too many drivers and not enough other daily drivers.
Strange we have two daily drivers and two classics with five drivers in the household insured by Hagerty. After thinking about it the kids didn't drive yet when I started with them. Maybe that is the reason. They are all in college now so none of them is driving much anyway.
Posted by: VaccaRabite Dec 8 2020, 12:16 PM
Yeah collector car insurance wants each driver to have a primary ride. That way kids aren't (as) tempted to take the collector car out when no one else is around and they want to get snacks or whatever kids do these days.
Zach
Posted by: AZBanks Dec 9 2020, 03:38 PM
I get their reasoning for most people but not everyone fits their mold.
The closest thing to a "Daily Driver" I've had in the last 20 years is a rental car. I either get on a plane and travel to the customer or I work from my home office. I've had one project in Phoenix since 2003. My 16 year old has a "Daily Driver", my wife works from home, my 18 year old is off at college and parks in a secure parking garage. Every entrance to his campus has a manned security booth. You can't get on campus without a student/student ID. My son goes and starts the car once a week and lets it run a while just to keep the battery charged. His campus has over 30 restaurants so he never leaves campus unless I pick him up for dinner. My wife and I share a "Daily Driver" because we don't need more than that.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)