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Posted by: ahycaramba Jul 12 2020, 09:44 PM

It's getting HOT and summer far from over. I'm looking for alternatives to a conventional HVAC system. I like the ideal of electronically run ac and heating system that will not rob power from the engine. I was wanting to know if anyone swapped HVAC system from an electric vehicle?

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: hcdmueller Jul 12 2020, 10:38 PM

Check out Classic Retrofit. He has a pretty impressive setup for the 911. There was mention of working on a 914 setup, but nothing on the website. Either way, I have seen some pretty good reviews from people on the Pelican Forums.

https://www.classicretrofit.com/collections/electric-air-conditioning

Posted by: Steve Jul 12 2020, 11:25 PM

He does sell the electric compressor by itself. That and a standard condensor in the front trunk and under dash evaporator and you have a complete system. How big is your alternator? The compressor draws 40 amps + condensor fans and evaporator fans, stereo, lights, etc.

Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 12 2020, 11:53 PM

I've seen mini swamp coolers that are quite small, require about 20oz of water every hour or so and would fit in a corner on the floor, drawing very small amperage from your accessory outlet.
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwiO243VxMnqAhUQ8MAKHTo9AM0YABAQGgJpbQ&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESQeD20juJS6vOQH-ezTa0EorLaaH5wLI3gjtulQZi9IVVs3F_QybOD8bXmeh3-0Len6p3j_eYUrYkcvYn2_Lu5Umi&sig=AOD64_3oMzoJRkMBleoH-baxCg5kUav7Kg&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwi-0YbVxMnqAhWEVs0KHQ8EALgQ9aACegQIDhA8&adurl=

Posted by: mepstein Jul 13 2020, 05:35 AM

He sells a custom 911 alternator replacement for $900 that has the juice to power the system.

All in, the system is ~$5,500 for a 911. I know they are working on a 914 version but it’s not out yet. They sell as many 911 systems as they can make so the 914 probably isn’t a priority but like Steve said, they sell parts individually.

Posted by: michael7810 Jul 13 2020, 06:54 AM

I’ve used a B-Kool on several 914 Treks during the summer and it works quite well. I drove from Mammoth Lakes to Phoenix in June during record desert temps of 120F coming back from WCR a few years ago and it was not that bad. Tinted windows would have really helped. If I remember correctly I used 125lbs of ice. 20 lbs of ice lasts about an hour and I carried a second ice chest so I only had to buy ice every 2 hours. My only mod was to install a trailer-hitch style connector because a cigarette lighter plug can’t handle a 10 amp load for hours on end.
https://www.flyingmag.com/b-kool-offers-simple-effective-cooling/

Posted by: 914e Jul 13 2020, 08:48 AM

The compressors from electric vehicles require 200 to 400 volts DC. A new 12 volt compressor can be found about $550, the down side of the low voltage is the current draw is 60 to 70 amps. You will need a high output alternator, something that can produce at least 75 amps at idle. That is typically a 150-200 amp alternator. I would install a higher amp hour battery as well at some point.

Posted by: GregAmy Jul 13 2020, 08:52 AM

Is that the Brit guy doing the electric A/C? He is having his 914 fitted with an EV system on the TV show "Vintage Voltage", fit almost wholly within the Appearance Group center console, looked like a nice setup.

Big spendy dollars though.

Posted by: brant Jul 13 2020, 08:59 AM

the stock alternator is what....? 50 amps or is it 35
either way, my concerns with electrical systems is that none of these cars were intended to produce or carry high amp loads
overwhelming the electrical wiring is a concern with upgrades

I think if you need modern AC and heat then the easiest solution is to buy a modern car

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 13 2020, 09:06 AM

That's not how physics works though. A large electrical current draw will still rob power from your engine.

Posted by: PanelBilly Jul 13 2020, 09:24 AM

Or move to the PNW. High of 75’ today. Might make 80 this week!

Posted by: mepstein Jul 13 2020, 09:42 AM

I just noticed an article on their site showing their electric ac in a 912. So it looks like they (or someone) have an alternator that will work with a 4 cylinder engine. They don't currently offer a fresh air blower to fit a 914 but maybe we'll see it soon.

https://www.classicretrofit.com/blogs/news/irish-green-porsche-912-restoration-with-electric-a-c

https://www.classicretrofit.com/collections/electric-air-conditioning/products/high-power-blower-for-911-a-c

Posted by: 914e Jul 13 2020, 10:19 AM

We might get down to 75F for a few minutes in late September. Right now you have be out at 4:30 am to enjoy brief few minutes when it dips below 100.

Posted by: SteveL Jul 13 2020, 11:01 AM

Coolshirt Complete Club System All-In-One Kit
https://competitionmotorsport.com/coolshirt-complete-club-system-all-in-one?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-7Dj4tnK6gIV0MDACh2XjAgVEAQYAyABEgI2XvD_BwE

Posted by: 914_teener Jul 13 2020, 03:50 PM

I drove from Prescott yesterday and through some strecthes reached 126 through the Sonoran desert.

The 6.2 in the Superduty and modern AC was just able to disspate that heat towing our Covid townhome behind us back to Cali.

I.d go with the evaporative cooling solution.

Posted by: frostyf Jul 13 2020, 05:46 PM

Bit of a branch question from the main Electric topic; has anyone tried an alternate condensor to cutting the frunk floor?? Just wondered if there's scope to mount one in the engine lid (possibly a narrow condensor in a double 914-6 lid) and still isolate it from the hot engine compt air below - or is that just unrealistic??

I'd love to fit one but don't want to cut up the frunk?

Posted by: Steve Jul 13 2020, 05:56 PM

The guys in the UK said they could put one in right rear wheel well.
I have not seen it done yet. Since I have a six with a front cooler, I just installed two PMS louvered sections in the front trunk. Easy to do. The oil cooler hot air exits before the condensor. PMS did the same thing in there 916 retro build.

Posted by: mepstein Jul 13 2020, 06:21 PM

Yea, That's what Jonny told me. Also suggested mounting the electric compressor under the rear trunk, above the right rear axle. He said that should result in no cutting needed. He's a 914 enthusiast but he knows the market is in the 911's.

Posted by: ahycaramba Jul 13 2020, 07:03 PM

just incase you are wondering what I'm running it's a WRX EJ20. At the moment I have the car set up without AC and a heater but planning to incorporate that in the future. My alternator output is about 75 amps. I want to make it clean and simple under dash. thinking electrical for both ac & heating but not ruling out conventional HVAC system.

I like all the ideals thus far. I found this on youtube university. I know it's not a Porsche but it has some useful information about electrical ac system. Check out where he put the ac condenser, WILD! I didn't think it would cool the freon efficiently in that location.
https://youtu.be/mRo05wph2F0

Also, Call me crazy for thinking of heating system as well in the middle of summer. What options are there to keeping the cabin toasty in winter other than heat exchangers? Any electrical options out there?

Posted by: frostyf Jul 13 2020, 09:32 PM

Mark,
Is Johnny from the classic retrofit outfit in Horsham??

I need to have another look and try to work out what condensor they're using!

Posted by: Literati914 Jul 14 2020, 11:40 AM

If I remember @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 mounted an AC condenser (from some model of 911?) under the engine lid with success.

Also - don't I remember some talk of someone adding AC to the inside of the fresh air box? Don't remember any of the details .. but that seems like a great idea if it could work. Me? I have two 914s that have both had the frunk floors cut for AC, but nothing else AC related - and I'm gonna have to have air in at least one!

Posted by: 73-914 Jul 14 2020, 11:54 AM

I agree You can neither create nor destroy energy, only change it's form

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 14 2020, 12:50 PM

I added an additional condenser in series with the one in the front trunk. It is from an 911 SC, and it mounts to the engine lid. With the R134a conversion, it helped to lower evaporator output temps to the point I could get the inside of her car down to the high 70s on a 100+ degree Texas summer day. I didn't remove the original condenser, I just supplemented it.

It makes the engine lid require a prop rod, but it does make the AC nice and cold. But there is not room on the engine lid for a condenser big enough to handle the whole load, and it will make the engine run hotter too.

Posted by: Carbon-14 Jul 14 2020, 04:01 PM

Not your typical HVAC system


' Swamp Coolers ' or, more accurately,
' automotive evaporative adiabatic air conditioner ' : an electrical load on system, carrying a few gallons of water, filled regularly in summer, most useful in dry, hot conditions.
Works on chilling air-cooled engines too !
https://www.google.com/search?q=automotive+van+evaporative+adiabatic+air+conditioner&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwisn7PIy83qAhUkjK0KHdq7A4cQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=automotive+van+evaporative+adiabatic+air+conditioner& amp;gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQA1CJpSRY1aElYMunJWgAcAB4AIABS4gB6giSAQIxOZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13a
XotaW1n&sclient=img&ei=pRYOX-y4FqSYtgXa9464CA&bih=746&biw=1522#imgrc=4Bhdw6yhOfMpiM
http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/35980
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/evaporative-air-cooler-c-24392-3.html
https://www.et.byu.edu/~rowley/ChEn273/Topics/Energy_Balances/Nonreacting_Systems/Phase_Boundaries/Psychrometric_Charts.htm
https://issuu.com/abccjack20/docs/thermodynamics-an-engineering-appro
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/11/11/tropical-evaporative-cooling/
Pulling an entire AC system from a wrecked van would work too, for a cheep compromise, though some reverse engineering would be required.
Driving the compressor's input shaft is the first task, a 12 volt electric compressor is an option, and a simpler solution if sourced easily.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vta-674012?seid=srese1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI18r9ltrN6gIVjYbACh19rAHgEAQYBSABEgJzIPD_BwE

Posted by: Don Contreras Jul 14 2020, 06:36 PM

What options are there for A/C & heat for a 914 with V8?

Posted by: Steve Jul 15 2020, 07:17 AM

There are under dash units that support both AC and heat.
https://www.vintageair.com/

Posted by: 914forme Jul 15 2020, 08:44 AM

used with success here in a Subaru swap @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9964 Kent please fill in the details as you lived with a similar unit for years now.

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 15 2020, 11:40 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 Sure Stephan. BTW Steve has seen my setup. I went with the Vintage air unit because of the depth of that unit. Everything I found was 12" depth except for this one particular unit they sell that has a 10" depth. Even then it is a close fit. The closer is that you don't need to cut or drill new holes in your lower dash/knee pad. On the right side I bent one of there supplied straight hangers 90 degres. On the left, IIRC I bent another supplied hanger but more of an "L" shape. You use the OEM screws if long enough or a 6mm x 25mm x 1.25. Regardless, it fits the 914 like a glove and does not protrude past the knee pad. I can list the part # but AFAIK it is the only unit the sell with a 10" depth. A little under $500 whenI bought it.