Started the process of GT flaring my car this week.
The plan is to weld all four flares on first, then widen the rears to fit 9s, and in the process strip the car panel by panel for a repaint.
The rear arches had been pulled at some point in the 90s to fit 7s, and I knew they'd gone to town with bondo to smooth the driver's side out because there was a crack. The picture below is a cross section cut through the arch once I removed it... that's 0.5 inches of bondo right there
After making the initial rough cuts it dawned on me I'm probably going to need to remove the rear quarter oil tank to give me enough clearance to tig weld the flare on the front and back.
I can only see one bolt, inside the engine bay - is that the only thing holding the tank in place?
Also, dumb question, can I remove the tank without having to drain my engine oil first? I didn't think this far ahead and only changed my oil last month
If it's a factory 914-6 oil tank there's 3 mount points. Two M8 nuts towards the top and a large nut 21 mm I believe at the bottom fitting that the return line goes to.
You will have to drain the oil from the tank in order to remove it. No way around that.
There aren't any markings on it, but I think it's a Patrick Motorsports tank.
I just noticed a second nut nearer the firewall that could be holding it in place too. I guess I'll just undo them when the time comes to weld the flare on and figure it out from there.
I'm a bit of a dunce when it comes to engines. I always thought the oil drained out of the tank and just sat in the bottom of the engine when it wasn't running, hence I was wondering if I could just remove the tank without draining the engine. Now I know better
I'm not sure how the PMS tank mounts at the return line end. Yes, the two bolts that you marked need to be removed along with the filler neck, vent hose, oil filter/console (if it has one) suction line and return line.
Hi John, don't know if you have this for GT fender placement. It is in inches. Mark
I don’t, this is perfect! Thanks Mark. Will be a lot more accurate than me eyeballing it.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13770 am I measuring from the correct place?
With the flare rough fitted up to the fender I have it 6.25 from the door jamb but the other measurement, from the pinch weld to the front of the arch is also 6.25 inches.
Front right is passenger
Right and left is always as if you are sitting in car.
You’d think that, right? But after rough fitting, the flare marked “front right” only fits on the driver side.
What you going to use for rockers? Don't forget that is an important part of the mock up..
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825 Sorry, wasn’t having a pop at you, I appreciate you chiming in. You’re probably right on the mislabelling. A little frustrating as the measurements didn’t seem to match up either. I’ll just have to triple check when I’m doing the rears.
I was thinking that as I was cutting the fender
Plan is to strip the rocker panels that came off the car, weld up the cracks and then make my own extensions. That way I can get the gaps right even if my flare welding leaves a little to be desired.
John77, Ben (mb911) has already made the ends for you. They are pretty complex so you only need to weld them on to match the flares final position. Mepstein also has Bens flared rocker ends. Best, Mark
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 , definitely want a set of these if they’re available Ben - I’ll pm you. [EDIT: Ignore that, found your website and ordered a set.]
Thanks guys. I will build up a set for you..
Got the first flare fitted after marking and trimming the arch to make a nice tight butt joint for when I tig weld, but then got sidetracked by the predictable "while you're in there".
While I had easy access thanks to the the arch being cut out I decided to strip the wheel wells back to bare metal. Was pleased to find mostly clean sheet metal.
My plan is to treat the bare metal with SEM rust mort and then seam sealer where needed and a couple of coats of POR15. I know not everyone loves that stuff, but I've done it on a couple of cars and never had a problem.
As I was stripping the fender I also found a complete mess where someone had plugged the antenna hole. They basically but a patch of metal behind the hole, welded the two together from the topside and then coated the whole thing with a generous layer of bondo (which appears to be a running theme on this car).
The most impressive part was they didn't bother treating or painting the patch inside the fender, so it was a sheet of thick rust slowly rotting the fender metal above it
Attacked it with a hole saw...
Here's what the back of the patch looked like.
I cut a new patch and tacked it in place.
And then once it was welded I metal finished the weld. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than how it was.
Nice save on the antenna hole. That rust would have consumed the entire fender. Flare placement looks good too.
Thanks for the updates, please keep the, coming.
Nice job.. I had to do the same thing on my car..
3 years ago I took a metal shaping class at Wray Schelin's ProShaper shop in Charlton, MA. That was the first time I ever did any kind of sheet metal work, and the first time I picked up a tig welder. I learned a ton of fundamentals in those 4 days, and Wray also taught us his method for getting a tight fit all the way along long butt joints, so...
All in it took me about 3 hours to get the butt joint tight.
First I rough cut the shape of the flare out of the fender, about an inch away from the final cut. Then I cover the fender where the flare will overlap with black sharpie - that's the black strip you can see in this pic.
Then I mount the flare in its final position on top of the fender using clamps and drilled holes with clecos where clamps won't reach.
Then I scribe a line with a really sharp point along the edge of the flare. This leaves a really fine line scribed into the black sharpie telling me exactly how much metal I need to cut.
Then I cut as close as I can to that line using my nibblers (unlike hand shears they don't bend the sheet metal).
Then I go all the way along the seam with a hand file and file away any remaining material tight to the scribed line.
It's ridiculously laborious, and if this was my job not a hobby it wouldn't be cost effective, but by the time I'm done I have a super tight fit all the way along the butt joint between the flare and fender.
Now, all of that said, my tig welding is a little hit and miss. No matter how tight my joint is I have an incredible ability to blow a hole in one out of every five of my tig tack welds. Which means I then have to go back and fix every fifth tack... which adds a load more time, and quite frankly drives me nuts.
So I decided to use the mig to tack the flare instead, every other inch, in sequence one after the other to make sure the seam stayed tight all the way along and I could correct any distortion if it occurred.
All in it took me 75 tack welds to get the flare in place.
Once the tacks were all done I knocked the top off each of them with my cheapo harbor freight hand held belt sander and then started to tig weld the inch long sections between the mig welds, jumping around from section to section so not to build up too much heat.
By starting the tig weld pool on the mig tack that let's me reduce the size of the mig tack further.
All in I managed to tig 2/3rds of the flare before I ran out of time. I'll finish up the rest of the weld and metal finish it this week.
The hole by the where the turn signal barnacle used to be was where I found more patch work from the antenna hole butcher and another rusty patch. I had to chop it out too, but the plan is to patch that hole once the flare's welded in place.
Got home from the shop on Saturday night to find a delivery on my doorstep.
Once the flares are done I'm planning to take my entire car back to bare metal and do a complete color change.
I have experience spray painting, but my spray gun got stolen by a meth head and the compressor at the shop took a , so I was trying to figure out the best way to get it done without leaving the metal exposed for too long. Which is when I stumbled on this roll on stuff from Eastwood.
An auto paint channel I follow on youtube did a review and he seemed pretty impressed so I figured I'd give it a shot.
The main appeal was that it will allow me to work panel by panel without having to mask the car or move it into a makeshift booth (that, plus I don't even have the equipment to spray right now). So once the first flare's done I'll strip the rest of the paint off the fender, paint the entire fender with the roll on epoxy, and then be good to move on to the next one.
Then, once all the flares are done, I'll strip the doors, hood, deck lid, frunk, trunk, one by one and epoxy them as I go until eventually the entire car's in epoxy.
With the car completely sealed up with epoxy I can then figure out what I want to do regarding color without having to think about that right now which will probably overwhelm me into doing nothing... and mean my car's off the road for months.
Right now I'm thinking I'll get Eastwood's roll on primer surfacer to go on top of the epoxy, and sand and prep the car straight myself so it's ready for basecoat/clear, at which point I may pay a shop to finish it.
Although that may change, depending on my circumstances - I may end up getting a new compressor and gun and do the base/clear myself as I have another project car that will eventually need paint too, so the reinvestment in the equipment may be worth it. Plus the meth head no longer works at the shop where I rent space to work on my cars so, you know, there's that.
I'll keep this thread updated on how the roll on epoxy turns out.
Your workshop looks amazing. Is it a home/hobby set up or work related?
Nice work and progress. I hate thieves- let's hope he gets arrested at some point so he can't victimize anyone else.
I vote for getting a new spray gun and compressor if you can swing it. It will make the job much easier.
Thanks. I'd love to paint it myself if I can. The nice thing about the roll on epoxy is it gives me a bit of breathing room to seal up all the sheet metal before I have to make that decision.
I'm going to be getting a new front valance to match the shape of the flares, but I have a problem...
The driveway up the side of my house to my garage in the back is pretty steep, and the valance I have on the car now scrapes across the sidewalk as I hit the bottom of the driveway.
I'm wondering if there's a way I can make the valance quick release, so I can take it off when I drive in and out of my house? But not so quick release that it flies off on the 405 Dzus fasteners maybe?
Has anyone done this?
Great work! I noticed in your first post that you plan to widen the rear flares for 9 inch wheels. I was under the impression that nines can work with the standard rear GT flares. Obviously tire size has a lot to do with it, but just wondering how you arrived at that decision. Cheers!
Keep a 4x4 post near your driveway and drop it into the gutter area so it reduces the drop off gradually. Or there are a lot of gutter slope/driveway rubber devises available to change the slope so it is an easy rise.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20880 I always loved the look of the privateer 914GTs running mismatched wheels with fuchs in the front and beefy minilites in the rear. But I decided to switch it up a little and run 8 inch fuchs in the front and 9 inch Group 4 campagnolos in the rear.
After speaking to 914Dave who runs the 8 inch group 4 wheels all round (see his car of the month) he told me because of the offset he had to trim the fender lip to 1/8th of an inch AND machine a tiny amount off the mounting pad on the wheel so they would fit.
So going with 9s, I figure I’ll need to widen the flare.
The problem isn't so much the gutter, more that the entire car is on an incline as it meets the sidewalk. So with the rear elevated, the nose just grinds into the abruptly level concrete.
That said, the ramp idea could be a smarter alternative. Thanks, I'll look into it.
EST to fold the lip back. That will give you a bit more room and a nice finished look. Best to do this before you have the car all primed and ready to paint, unlike what I did....
Ha, I feel your pain. It never even occurred to me to wait until I bought the valance before I fitted up the front flares so I could make sure they matched up perfectly - for some reason all I was focused on was the rockers So that should be fun once I get the valance...
Anyway, maybe I'm having a brain fart, but can you elaborate on what EST is? Maybe a picture would help.
Ahhh, okay, now I see what PanelBilly meant. I had the "removable valance" question on my brain and thought he meant that
I just reread the conversation I had with @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1262 and I misspoke, he's running 9s in the back just like I will be.
He told me he had to have .100” machined off the mounting surface and the fender lip cut down to about 1/8”, and they only just fit with 1/16" clearance.
Maybe it's because the offset is different from fuchs, i don't know.
Either way, it looks like I'll have to get the mounting face machined down .100" or somehow widen the flare a little to get them to fit.
One option I was thinking about was using my shrinker/stretcher on the lip to stretch them a little and then english wheeling out the flat face of the flare to give them a little more shape. Although I'm a little hesitant to alter the original shape of them too much.
I run 9x16 on all 4 corners on the track car and have for more than 30 years. I never machined any wheels. I have had several sets and they all fit. Of course, these flares have been on the car since 1983-ish. I fully expect to be able to do the same with my current project (flares I bought in a group buy back in 2004-2005)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1615 Were any of those sets Group 4 Campagnolos? This is literally what I’ve been told by someone who’s running the exact same wheels I plan to run. Maybe the offset is different.
9 x 16 have a more favorable offset than the 9 x 15.
Slowly making progress metal finishing the weld on the first flare today.
Can someone tell me, as the flare comes off the top of the fender and starts to roll down toward where the turn signal barnacle would be, is that supposed to flow into the flare with a smooth transition (pink) or is it more like an abrupt crease (yellow)?
Wow I was surprised to read your thread and come across someone else willing to roll paint onto their car !! . I have my project car (which is outdoors/unprotected) in epoxy primer now after stripping it down to bare metal, then rolling it on with 4" rollers from Home Depot (don't laugh). The thing is, I expected a good amount of orange peal - which I got, 'cause I plan on blocking it down (filler work was done before the epoxy). Then I plan to roll on polyester primer surfacer (2K high build primer).. and block it down too. My time is free, so..
But that brings me to a consideration that I wonder if you'd thought about.. and that is, while the epoxy primer creates a sort of hard shell that doesn't easily/quickly soak up moisture - the 2K high build would. So you'd want to be ready to spray once you get the 2K blocked down straight. But nothing says it couldn't be sprayed a panel at a time.
I hate to admit this but I've actually even thought about rolling on the UA single stage paint that I'll be using. I mean, I do have the compressor and spray equipment but if you plan to wet sand the entire car anyway.. I'm not sure it wouldn't work . The advantages for me being that I would not have to invest in purchasing and putting up a temporary garage to shoot in, seal it, purchase exhaust fans, etc. Also, the lack of highly aerosol-ed paint may not smell as bad and get the attention of fewer pissed off neighbors. Not to mention, may be less hazardous to me - I don't completely trust the respirator/masks (though I'd still wear one) - and professional paint is dangerous stuff. But, I have not decided against spraying either. So I will be getting an idea of it's feasibility by rolling it on the under-side of the car, wheel wells and longs first. I know this is probably crazy, but we'll see before going all in on the visible parts of the car. Anyway, your project is coming along nicely, keep it up
The roll on epoxy I have is 2K and, if Eastwood’s to be believed, is self-leveling. As long as I prep the metal correctly I don’t see orange peel being an issue.
My plan is to only do epoxy so I don’t have to worry about moisture. I’ll only do primer surfacer and block when I’m ready for color/clear.
Can you sand color? I was under the impression if you do you have to do another coat or it will show through the clear.
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