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Posted by: dan10101 Dec 5 2020, 02:27 PM

Yeah, I know its nuts. But we’re going to turbo the Screamsicle. (also known as Morpheus..)



For you that aren’t familiar with the car, it’s a 5.7 LS6 engine that has many goodies. The dyno sheet I was given with the car shows 430 rwhp. My dyno showed 362 rwhp. But I’m thinking that was mostly the differences in dynos. Either way, both numbers are thrown around. We’ll go with 362 going forward.

We’ll be adding a VS Racing 7875 Turbo with .96ar and V-band connections. With minimum boost I expect to be close to 500rwhp. We’ll use that for AX and track days at least to start. The drag strip is where we’ll eventually turn it up to about 14psi. That will give us approx. 700rwhp and hopefully set a mark to be beat.

I go into why and everything else in the video, but really, it’s because I want to… 

Here’s the intro video for the LS Turbo series on our Budget Outlaws channel.

https://youtu.be/6_Mlwf0nHLw

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 5 2020, 02:33 PM

Besides building the turbo kit, I have a lot of work to do:

More fuel delivery is a given. We’ll be using E85 for the 14psi runs.

The engine will come apart for a refresh and gaping the rings for boost.

I need to rework the brakes. They stop OK, but just OK isn’t good enough.

Build a front splitter, possibly make a flat bottom for under the engine.

Rework the front fiberglass for more cooling. Ala the original build that Bill did.

Possibly a wing, I know it’s a little extreme, but that’s where this is going and from my research the spoilers don’t have much downforce due to airflow.

And then maybe I’ll finally get around to painting it…

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 5 2020, 03:38 PM

remember when


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Posted by: AZBanks Dec 5 2020, 04:25 PM

If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower.

— Mark Donohue

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 5 2020, 04:54 PM

Whenever I here that quote from Keith Black I think of this video. 32psi broke the dyno..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHod9SRuiHo

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 5 2020, 04:55 PM

Now THAT is what I'm talking about, ya know?

Posted by: r_towle Dec 5 2020, 06:31 PM

Is that the car from NJ?

Rich

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 5 2020, 06:35 PM

Yes it was. I bought it from Paul after it was wrecked.

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 5 2020, 07:34 PM

"If more is good, too much is just enough."

I vote twin turbos. I mean, who doesn't love twins?

Dan, I cant wait to see this happen! If there's anything I can do to help, please don't hesitate to let me know.

Posted by: wndsrfr Dec 5 2020, 08:40 PM

Go with Wilwood calipers & rotors--the ones I have are 4 piston using Porterfield pads meant for stock cars--like way too much brakes for my 1950 pounds & 215 hp. Search on my name and wilwood for description of the specific calipers/rotors--BTW, rotors are like $40 each--hard to beat! For drag use go with Porterfield's pads that have strong bite without needing to be hot...

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 5 2020, 09:11 PM

It's your OCD setting in. You just can't have things uneven. I'm surprised you don't have a McClaren seat in the middle of you car. LOL

But really, Twins would look cool.

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 5 2020, 09:12 PM

I'll check it out. I already have 930 brakes all around, So they should work, but somethings not right with the balance.

Posted by: 914forme Dec 6 2020, 08:29 PM

LS Twin Turbo is a great choice, pattern the design after the twin turbo BMW V8s used in the M cars, great engine design. Water to air intercoolers for each turbo. Just need to size the turbos right, and you're good.

Posted by: FL 000 Dec 6 2020, 09:28 PM

Looking forward to seeing this come together. Does the bottom end of the engine need any help (crank/rods) or good as is?

Posted by: r_towle Dec 6 2020, 10:46 PM

it was fast enough then....now you are officially nuts.
I approve.

Posted by: Mueller Dec 6 2020, 10:52 PM

That'll be fun for sure...

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 12:34 AM

No, just a refresh and probably more ring gap. It's forged Crank, rods and pistons, decent heads. Bill really built it right. But 11.2-1 compression will require e85 or something better and really proper tuning at 14 PSI of boost.

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 12:36 AM

I blame the Covid. It's fried my brain. Isn't everything because of the Covid?

Posted by: mbseto Dec 7 2020, 09:05 AM

Good grief. How much fun is a person allowed to have?

Posted by: cali914 Dec 7 2020, 11:05 AM

Great question and I think there is a simple answer. Fast enough is when it breaks, and on the street the more hp, the more wheel spin, or something has to give. So I guess the answer is there is a limit to no limits. LOL Twin Turbo LS you have to get the gearbox from the C8.

Posted by: burton73 Dec 7 2020, 11:25 AM

He has a 4 speed gearbox from a 930 Porsche. Good for over 650HP so that should not break -930 CVs?

Bob B

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 12:11 PM

Yes, 930 CVs.
The wide range 4spd means less shifting. 60-100 and maybe even 30-100 times could be done without shifting if I have the gearing right. So that may be where I have my most fun if I'm allowed.
Can someone confirm my gear ratios? I believe it's a 78 930 box.

Diff 4.22
1st 2.25
2nd 1.304
3rd .893
4th .625

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 7 2020, 12:45 PM

930/34
930 Turbo 1978-85

4-speed fully-synchronized transaxle

Manufactured by Porsche (ZF)

Long bell housing

Plate-type limited-slip differential available

Rod shift

Single-plate clutch

Gear ratios:

1st gear: 2.25

2nd gear: 1.304

3rd gear: 0.893

4th gear: 0.625

Ring and pinion: 4.22

Posted by: burton73 Dec 7 2020, 12:54 PM

I have a short bell housing on mine, does that make it a 1977?

Bob B
.

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 01:01 PM

Bob, I can't answer that but here is mine for comparison.

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 01:08 PM

Well, according to this website. I have an earlier trans. 75-77
And lower diff gears.

https://californiamotorsports.net/pages/porsche-930-transaxle-specification

I don't know if that will matter at all, but just trying to keep it straight.

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 01:14 PM

Actually Bobby Hart from CA Motorsports rebuilt it last.
I'm guessing he would discourage a turbo setup.

Posted by: burton73 Dec 7 2020, 01:15 PM

Mine is set up to run upside down and has oil squirter set up for the trans to run with an oil cooler or not. The place that built it GBox said I would not need to run it but it is set up for it.


Bob B

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 7 2020, 01:27 PM

https://www.gboxweb.com/930specs.html

930/30
930 Turbo 1975-76

4-speed fully-synchronized transaxle

Manufactured by Porsche (ZF)

Short bell housing

Plate-type limited-slip differential available

Rod shift

Single-plate clutch

Gear ratios:

1st gear: 2.25

2nd gear: 1.304

3rd gear: 0.893

4th gear: 0.656

Ring and pinion: 4.22

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 01:34 PM

Yeah, Michael Cuoco on the Facebook group is setup that way. I'm guessing when they built my car, they weren't sure if it would oil correctly in that orientation. Now you guys can save the bucks to flip it internally. His looks to be the later case.

I'm thinking mine has the later gear ratio. 4.22. The gearing doesn't seem to add up. Maybe my speedo is off. I'll have to do some testing.

Here is Michaels

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 01:36 PM

Thank You.
That makes more sense.

Posted by: AZBanks Dec 7 2020, 02:06 PM

I have one of these kits in my garage, still in boxes. Too bad it is for an LT, not an LS.

https://www.bankspowerproducts.com/Banks-Power-21103-Twin-Turbocharger-System-p/21103.htm

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 02:15 PM

There I fixed it for you.
Can't go wrong with Banks. And you could probably sell the Banks headers for more that the ebay headers.

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 7 2020, 02:29 PM

Dan - I'm running a set of eBay turbo forward headers and I have to say, for $160, they are actually pretty nice. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them, if that's the sort of set up you need.

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 7 2020, 02:41 PM

Way Back 1986


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Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 7 2020, 03:19 PM

That looks like the engine comp might get a little warm. Even with the heat shielding.

Posted by: Andyrew Dec 7 2020, 03:28 PM

Hey all, voice of reason over here.. He's going with ONE ~1000hp turbo mounted by the passenger headlight, not two

Posted by: Andyrew Dec 7 2020, 03:30 PM

Funny thing is, I tried to get Dad (Dan) to buy this car as well... Unfortunately he had not sold the El Camino at the time or else it would probably be in the garage...

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 7 2020, 03:42 PM

That's how kids these days do it

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 7 2020, 03:45 PM

Near the headlight? How does that work? Multiple meters of high pressure silicon tubing? Like Rich Bontempi's old race car with the cool air ducting running thru the interior of the car?

Posted by: AZBanks Dec 7 2020, 03:57 PM

Two is one and one is none...






Oh, sorry, wrong forum.

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 04:36 PM

I do like that quote....

I'm trying to think this thru, if one dies do both not work?

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 04:39 PM

Actually the headers were for AXBanks who had the wrong headers in his kit.
Not that you NEED an LS to make big HP with a Banks kit..

I know the ebay quality has gone up a smidge over the years.

Posted by: Andyrew Dec 7 2020, 04:44 PM

Misstype - Tail light

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 04:46 PM

Well In my case it's the Passenger Taillight. Maybe I'll remove the taillight for more air.. (and 1000 is a bit of a stretch.)

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 05:11 PM

I can't tell you how many links to cars he sent me...

Posted by: Andyrew Dec 7 2020, 05:23 PM

I can send you more if you want.....

Posted by: burton73 Dec 7 2020, 08:02 PM

So, I am thinking? What it would be like with a Turbo for my 86 Corvette Eng. Looked over Dan’s idea for a single turbo and it looks like that may be the set up for me. So, I have fresh factory Aluminum heads and if I went with a special cam and aftermarket injection and maybe different pistons I wonder how it will run with a single turbo. I had a single turbo on a 4 cylinder 2.0 back in the late 70s and it ran great at certain times. Stock injection on the 2.0 needed better enrichment. Wonder if it could make 500 HP without inner cooling?

My mind is always working better than my body these days


Bob B

Posted by: dan10101 Dec 7 2020, 08:49 PM

If you have an idea of how much it makes NA, you can pretty much double that at 14psi. This is according to Dyno Master Richard Holden. Then picking the turbo, getting the inter-cooling right, and making sure the fueling is up to snuff. Lets say your build 86 corvette engine makes 350 to the wheels. With the right turbo, at 14psi you could double that. Then, as I am realizing, you need to make sure your AERO is right, your brakes are right, your rollover protection is right All of which I need to do as well. Oh, and cooling, intercooling, fuel delivery. It's a rabbits hole for sure. My Budget turbo is going to cost me a lot of money. But the car will be better for it.

We don't need 2 turbos to make big hp. But one big turbo can be laggy compared to 2 smaller ones. I chose a big ish turbo with a small hotside which should lead to (hopefully) just the right amount of lag that the torque of the built v8 should be able to override. My biggest fear of this setup is that the boost creep will be uncontrollable with only one waste gate. So I may have to add a second wastegate to be able to run say 5psi of boost. Other than that, It should work well without overpowering my drivetrain.

Posted by: dan10101 Feb 2 2021, 12:53 AM

Well, this Turbo LS is really happening.
The Exhaust/Hot Side is done! Well, minus the wastegate, But really why not!

Here's the latest video. I haven't been totally hibernating thru the winter.

A propane heater helps...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq42jvpTJo8

Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 2 2021, 06:55 AM

You are insane... and I am envious. Betty says I can't have a https://www.tpcracing.com/product/964-993-supercharger-kit/ for the 4.0 in my 914.

I also want the http://vonnen.com/ too. But that is $70K, installed.

Posted by: BillJ Feb 2 2021, 08:05 AM

Just spent 30 minutes down the Vonnen rabbit hole. That is pretty slick.

Posted by: AZBanks Feb 2 2021, 08:48 AM

I'm not sure about that. The one part of the Banks kit that is a disappointment is the headers/manifolds. I think they were built to handle the heat and stress of the turbo over all other factors. They are heavy/heavy duty but they appear to be chunks of heavy pipe welded together with no concern given to airflow. There are large ridges inside where the pipes are welded together and lots of big lumpy weld bead. If I ever get around to using the kit, I will spend a lot of time with a dremel smoothing out the inside of the headers or I will buy replacements.

Posted by: dan10101 Feb 2 2021, 09:06 AM

Personally I would go for a sequential...

Posted by: dan10101 Feb 2 2021, 09:09 AM

That's too bad, I had a lot of respect for Banks development. They seem to go over the top to develop the best product. I guess it falls down in production. But, Hey, if your buying new headers anyway....

Posted by: AZBanks Feb 2 2021, 11:31 AM

The headers/manifold is from the mid/late 80's so I'll cut them some slack on production quality. I doubt they would let something like that out the door these days. Watching the Banks youtube videos on the development process for their truck differential cover shows that they sweat every detail.

Posted by: dan10101 Feb 2 2021, 11:39 AM

That makes sense. Their process now is pretty much top of the line. Maybe they'll trade you the antiques for their latest product?

Posted by: dan10101 Feb 20 2021, 01:25 PM

We're getting closer...

I made some progress on the plumbing, the hot side, and the cold side

Things to do:
Plumb the Oil Scavenging Pump for the turbo oil drain.
Install the 3bar map sensor. (just in case I ever want to run 15psi...)
Update the ECU to work with the 3bar. And do a home brew tune to get it ready for a bit of boost. (ok I probably should have stuck with 2bar...)
Fab up some covers for the bottom and the top.
And some wiring...

A couple of new videos... Somewhat entertaining if only for a laugh...

Aluminum welding is hard...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEdYdt-DPY

I hacked together an exhaust insert. It actually kinda works. I'll do some sound comparison in the latest video. Plus added the missing wastegate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fwkngUXIdI&feature=youtu.be

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Feb 20 2021, 03:03 PM

I probably shouldn't mention that a stock 993 with a TPC supercharger (and no intercooler…) remains my all-time favorite air-cooled 911 engine, right?

But the silver lining for a fantasy I won't be indulging in, either, is I'm not sure an Eaton and its drive will fit in the 914 engine bay?

Posted by: preach Feb 20 2021, 03:34 PM

Enjoyed the vid as always!

Posted by: dan10101 Feb 20 2021, 06:33 PM

I'm not really a fan of Supercharging, but I'm sure the more modern systems have less drag and more boost. (my 2 major drawbacks.)

On the other hand any modern flat 6 with boost would be acceptable if the budget would allow.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2021, 08:05 PM

Here I am, looking at swapping in a different engine (due to too much hp) and you're working to get more. I really am a wuss, aren't I?

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=626 - I can't wait to see your beast back on the road with this latest madness in play!

Posted by: dan10101 Feb 20 2021, 08:30 PM

Hey, keep me in mind when I blow mine up!

Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 20 2021, 09:21 PM

Posted by: dan10101 Jun 22 2021, 11:57 PM

Dang, it's been 4 months! A lot has happened. Including a First Start! (and DRIVE!)
Well, some of you saw it started a couple of months ago. Well, We had to rebuild the engine. It's a long story, but the jist of it is that it went from 11.3 to 1 compression to 9 to 1 compression and now it's relatively quiet for a change.
Plus now I can run pump gas and maybe if I keep the boost down I can do this without upgrading the fuel system. So far so good.
So the engine was out, sent to be machined, and now back in with the latest video. But even better, it's running and making boost. I have a large laundry list of things to do and I'm knocking them out as quick as I can.

Here's the latest YouTube video. https://youtu.be/5u_ZkTKLdnQ

Here's the previous one with the Engine rebuild details. https://youtu.be/DGNqk35liPg

I don't know how far behind I am, but here's the rest of the Turbo LS videos in a playlist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq42jvpTJo8&list=PL8lCEtW8Ytl4DcXumUVoMhuzSM-Fd7Avo