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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 110v Welder Q

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 17 2005, 02:02 PM

my garage isn't exactly built to weld in the only plug is in the ceiling and the cord to the welder doesn't reach... what extension cords are Safe to use with a welder? I don't want to blow a breaker, I don't even know where the fuse box is, and I don't think the apartments would take it too kindly...

Posted by: Travis Neff Jul 17 2005, 02:05 PM

Go to home depot or lowes and get the heaviest guage extension cord they have. If you keep the length shorter that will help as well.

Posted by: JOHNMAN Jul 17 2005, 02:12 PM

What is the input Amp requirement for the welder? Chances are if you are using a ceiling outlet (meant for a garage door opener or lights), the breaker is too small to do much welding. IIRC most wire feed welders require a 20A breaker. Most lighting circuits are less than that.

Definaltely keep any extension cord as short as possible with as large guage wire as is reasonable. If it is a ceiling outlet, you shouldn't need much more than a 10 foot cord. How will you keep that plugged in with the weight of the cord hanging from it? You may need to tie it to the outlet.

Good luck and try not to burn the place down.

Posted by: Flat VW Jul 17 2005, 02:16 PM

QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Jul 17 2005, 12:12 PM)
What is the input Amp requirement for the welder? Chances are if you are using a ceiling outlet (meant for a garage door opener or lights), the breaker is too small to do much welding. IIRC most wire feed welders require a 20A breaker. Most lighting circuits are less than that.

Definaltely keep any extension cord as short as possible with as large guage wire as is reasonable. If it is a ceiling outlet, you shouldn't need much more than a 10 foot cord. How will you keep that plugged in with the weight of the cord hanging from it? You may need to tie it to the outlet.

Good luck and try not to burn the place down.

A washing machine receptacle is 110V and should be a dedicated circuit.

John

Posted by: JOHNMAN Jul 17 2005, 02:19 PM

QUOTE
A washing machine receptacle is 110V and should be a dedicated circuit.

I agree, but he mentioned using the ceiling outlet in an apartment garage, not a laundry room.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 17 2005, 02:30 PM

if the garage was right next to the apt I would just use a longer cord, but that's not going to work...

I have tripped the surge protector in this garage with a fan, radio, shop vac running, and the air compressor kicked on, causing the surge protector to need a reset...

I'll run by Lowes and get a HEAVY 10' cord and hope for the best... I'll do it on a day the maintenance people are here though, in case the breaker goes...

alternatively, I'll get everything else done, get the bitch back on the road, then take it to a friend's house and use his garage... he wired a new 220, and 2 110s dedicated for his garage... it sounds like that may be a smarter move... what do you guys think?

btw, it's 2 small 4"x6" holes in the long, 1 - 4"x8" hole in the floor board and like 3 other small places, including 1 of the seat hinges... not a lot of welding at all... and I'm sure it would be safe to drive short distances... just no passenger seat

Posted by: Flat VW Jul 17 2005, 02:31 PM

JB Weld

John

Posted by: 914GT Jul 17 2005, 02:44 PM

It would be best to pick an existing outlet that has the shortest run of wire (#12) to the circuit breaker panel. Better yet is to wire a dedicated 20A circuit and use a wire gauge appropriate for the load and distance from the breaker panel. For an extension cord I made my own from 50' of #10 3-conductor stranded. I could not find any cords from Home Depot with heavy enough gauge wire. They look thick but it's mostly insulation. The 110V welders will give you trouble at the high current settings when using an undersized extension cord and too much house wiring. As soon as the arc begins the voltage drops at the welder. This messes up the arc as well as causes the wire feed motor to stall. The arc goes out, the voltage pops back up and the process repeats itself. Then you get a crappy weld and blame it on the welder. To be sure you don't have a voltage drop problem you can measure the line voltage at the welder while you are welding (or have someone monitor it). The voltage should not drop more than about 10% the nominal line voltage.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 17 2005, 03:44 PM

and how do you measure the line voltage at the welder ?

running a new line isn't an option in an apartment

I have no idea what the breaker situation is like for the garage... it may suck and all 4 garages in the group run off 1 circuit. or it may have a 20A dedicated to each garage... no idea either way.

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Jul 17 2005, 04:23 PM

Motorhomes and trailers use heavy gauge extension cords for the AC power. You might be able to find one at a RV supply place.

Bob

Posted by: cooltimes Jul 17 2005, 04:44 PM

I think you said somewhere you are using a MIG welder and welding on 914 sheet metal. Since it looks like if you do it in the apartment garage overhead light receptable using an extention cord, remove the light and screw in an adaptor you can plug the extention cord into. Hope the existing light outside the garage is ok but when you buzz the metal, that is all the light you need anyhow. I suggest you lower the welders amps with the amp selector wheel and try lowest amperage to weld with. Boost it up only if the wire is sticking and not burning thru the metal.
2nd suggestion is go to a friend who has a wall receptable, lots of light and weld. Take 6 pack and make a party of it.
Even more fun if that friend is opposite sex and goes bananas after 1 beer, the heat from the welder makes it too hot to stay fully clothed while wanting to help you weld until you finish even if it takes all night.
My .02 worth of help ain't much but sometimes it does help. LOL

Warning. Nearing 70 years makes your imagination soar even without beer so drive in the fast lane while you can.

Mike Cooley
Memphis

Posted by: 914GT Jul 17 2005, 05:15 PM

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 17 2005, 02:44 PM)
and how do you measure the line voltage at the welder ?

If there's a duplex outlet on the end of the extension cord where the welder is plugged in, stick the leads of an AC voltmeter into the spare outlet. Otherwise you'll have to touch the leads to the prongs right where it's plugged in. If the voltage never dips below 105V or so while welding you are OK (assumes your line voltage normally about 120V). If it drops below 100 then your welder may give you some problems.

Posted by: Travis Neff Jul 17 2005, 05:32 PM

Home depot does have 10G extension cords, if not then Lowes will definately have it. You can also get wire and build your own with recepticals. 20A will be for full power on that welder - which you will most likely be under that amount. At this point it doesn't hurt to try, otherwise you are going to have to figure out alternate power.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 17 2005, 06:03 PM

cool guys! I may give it a try with some 10Ga. home depot ext. cord... and see what happens...

with this stuff the welder says it needs to be on the lowest voltage setting (22 ga.) and the next highest up(16ga.)

it's a Lincoln Pro-mig 135...

worst that can happen is I blow a breaker, right?

do you think the light bulb receptacle will carry more power than the ceiling plug?

Posted by: cooltimes Jul 17 2005, 07:20 PM

I misread your initial extention wire plug in location. It's not a light bulb socket as I thought, huh!
If it is a receptable that you normally would plug a cord into, you will probably get the same standard voltage and amps limits as one that's plugged into a circuit in any room, there in the garage, across town or across the USA. American Standard rules.
The Lincoln I own needs support of at least a 15 amp fuses on 110V. At least it says on the front panel of my Lincoln model 100, it does.
As you said, the worst that would happen is a breaker would kick. If that happens. wait and use a buddy's garage. BTW, You are going to be stitch welding so the amount of heat generated would be in a stacatto fashion, off on off on, etc. which allows it to cool between punches on the trigger. MHO is try it.

Mike

Posted by: redshift Jul 17 2005, 07:29 PM

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 17 2005, 05:44 PM)
and how do you measure the line voltage at the welder ?

With your tongue.

If you stick the wire to your tongue, and then you don't remember how you got wherever you are, there is voltage present.

M

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 17 2005, 07:44 PM

all right... I'll rock and roll to lowes or Home Depot tommorrow (or see if Harbot Freight has some ?) and get on it... I cut a big hole in my floor today, and backed out to ask the question... it was getting to freaking hot anyway! 95 by noon!

thanks guys!

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jul 17 2005, 11:33 PM

measure the V-drop before you weld on your car.
914GTs suggestion.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 18 2005, 07:42 AM

QUOTE (sean_v8_914 @ Jul 18 2005, 12:33 AM)
measure the V-drop before you weld on your car.
914GTs suggestion.

will do. Harbor freight has the meters for like $5... can't beat it.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 18 2005, 10:01 AM

ok, the welder is this one: a http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=7111

it says to need 20A

now if I am welding on the lowest setting, will that make a difference?

Posted by: 914GT Jul 18 2005, 10:48 AM

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 18 2005, 09:01 AM)
ok, the welder is this one: a http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=7111

it says to need 20A

now if I am welding on the lowest setting, will that make a difference?

Yes. The low setting will draw less current than the high setting.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 18 2005, 10:51 AM

so will a 12/3 ext. cord(short as possible) be ok? 10/3?

there are also some cords with a breaker built in... should I use one of those?

Posted by: Travis Neff Jul 18 2005, 10:55 AM

If you have a cord with a breaker built in, that would be the way to go. If you pop a breaker it may take a while for the apt. management to reset it.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 18 2005, 10:57 AM

QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Jul 18 2005, 11:55 AM)
If you have a cord with a breaker built in, that would be the way to go. If you pop a breaker it may take a while for the apt. management to reset it.

that's what I was thinking, but they are only 15A breakers in the cord... would that hold?

Posted by: Travis Neff Jul 18 2005, 11:15 AM

I would think you would want one at 15 amps. Just because I would bet that the lights are on 20A breakers and who knows how many garages are on each circuit.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 18 2005, 11:22 AM

I don't think there can be more than 4 garages on a circuit for this particular thing... there are little buildings scattered throughout the complex with 4 garages in each one...

me and one other guy are the only ones that work on cars in our garages... he has a '76 Triumph TR6 in the garage building nearest to mine...

you make a great point, if it's a 20A circuit for the garages, a 15A on the cord would be best.

thanks!

Posted by: LvSteveH Jul 18 2005, 01:23 PM

If the cord is too long or too small for the current it will start getting hot, for low duty cycle welding on 110V, I can't imagine you'd have a problem with a common 12/3. I use one all the time on a 100' cord and have yet to have a problem. Granted I'm on a GFI outlet, with a 15 amp breaker in the panel, but it still has not pulled enough juice to heat up the cord. In fact my compressor often uses the same cord with no ill effects either. More weld, less

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 18 2005, 02:27 PM

I picked up a 9' 12/3 heavy appliance ext. cord at home Depot for $10... I think it will be more than fine for the 16ga and smaller stuff I plan on using it on...

even in a craptacular garage... god I wish this house deal would complete...