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Posted by: jaredmcginness Jan 14 2021, 10:41 AM

I would like to see where it was sitting.

https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1970-porsche-914-6-c-11940.htm

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 14 2021, 10:45 AM

Another Beverly Hills Car Club offering?

Posted by: jaredmcginness Jan 14 2021, 10:46 AM

Don't miss this rare chance at owning an excellent candidate for restoration, Michael!

Posted by: BillJ Jan 14 2021, 10:50 AM

$36k lol. It needs at least that in first class metalwork.

Posted by: SirAndy Jan 14 2021, 11:09 AM

Somebody get the VIN because i have the feeling we'll see this one again with a miraculously rust free body ...

Posted by: Superhawk996 Jan 14 2021, 11:09 AM

I'm surprised to write this but I think we've all seen worse starting points.

Seems like the going rate on a VIN only is around $17k and there is way more there than just a VIN.

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 14 2021, 11:15 AM

Another one I would not walk under if it was on a lift. Check that targa top fit. She's bending in half soon.

Posted by: flyer86d Jan 14 2021, 11:21 AM

Looks like it has the optional in-floor ventilation.

Charlie

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 14 2021, 11:22 AM

I think @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=15610 hit the nail on the head for metal work. That is all of $36K for metal work. Looks like it was underwater at some point. Places like the one selling this rusted wreck are the breading ground for illegal VIN swaps.

Posted by: BillJ Jan 14 2021, 11:23 AM

No indication if matching numbers (likely isn't) and surely does not start or run. Likely seized. Every system needs to be redone completely. If someone wanted to spend 100k on this car they would have a nice $100-125k car for $140k. My maths are not the best but this looks like a bad proposition for anyone that doesn't have cubic dollars and just doesn't care to spend them.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 14 2021, 11:30 AM

Bargain @ 36.5. BARGAIN!

Posted by: Superhawk996 Jan 14 2021, 12:37 PM

Mine had that option too. Almost fixed with completely new passenger side long, floorpans, bulkehads etc. In my case, it isn't even a /6 so I don't see that floor pan option as a show stopper.

The metal work isn't that hard or expensive Unless you're paying someone else for Concours level work.

Agree with comments above that it COULD be a $140k car but that assumes all work is farmed out and done at Concours level.



Strangely Unless I'm missing the sarcasm. Assuming the engine numbers match (says 2.2L but I wonder if case matches?) and the VIN is real that car is a whole lot better off than the other burned out hulk that was being offered a while back.



Might just be me but it doesn't look like the Targa is pulled forward and/or seated properly. I think they just placed in there for a photo but didn't fully install it.

Surely not saying the car is straight but a whole lot worse has been saved.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 14 2021, 12:54 PM

You missed. It's a . I looked in vain for a square inch that's not a disaster.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Jan 14 2021, 12:59 PM

Oh well. . . . one mans is another's diamond in the rough. I'm just saying a lot worse /4's have been saved.

Honestly I'd love the challenge but my hands are already full with my /4

Posted by: Beeliner Jan 14 2021, 01:00 PM

Is the dash cracked?

Posted by: mrholland2 Jan 14 2021, 01:22 PM

I dunno. . I think most of that will buff right out with the right compound.

Posted by: 914_7T3 Jan 14 2021, 01:52 PM

Here is some extra incentive as per the ad:

FINANCING IS EASY!

We can help you get great financing rates, as low as 1.99%!

Posted by: SirAndy Jan 14 2021, 02:20 PM

Somebody needs to go and check this out, it has a build date of 11/69 which makes it a *very* early car, likely one of the fist 100 made.

VIN appears to end with a 9 ...

Posted by: BillJ Jan 14 2021, 02:21 PM

Even the dash frame looks rusted. I wonder if they would want to buy my extra one? They could jump the price another $2k hahahah.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 14 2021, 02:48 PM

I have seen that car in person, the sales person I was with picked up the rear clip to show me how the how car flexed.

Hopefully someone will save it.

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 14 2021, 02:49 PM

I have one of those Harbor Freight suction cup dent pullers. Probably take care of the door dings. You'll need some bondo for the rear though. Might need to bring a compressor to air up the tires otherwise you'll get terrible mileage on the drive home.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jan 14 2021, 03:31 PM

I am going to make this comment....

Years ago, they were scrapping 356s because they were rusty. Now they are saving 356s that are little more than a vin number and a pile of rust.

If this is a real six, with a real six vin, and has all of the unique real six bits, then it is worth saving.


Just my $.02

Posted by: 914_teener Jan 14 2021, 03:52 PM

I'd be concerned about just the level of expertise and quality of just the listing:


1. Why not post all the paperwork or at least some provenance. Tony's No.1 has all the provenance and was in worse shape but has the full history of the car...which makes it worth more.

2. Light Ivory was L80E, I know cause I had one....I thought the 911 Ivory was 1111 and not 11. So why oh why didn't they post a picture of the door tag or a picture of the VIN. Original Sixes have a distinctive VIN stamp.

The listing sucks to ask 36K without the above.

Pete is the expert on the colors codes so maybe he'll chime in.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jan 14 2021, 03:55 PM

914-6s only used the last two digits of the 911 paint code.

Clay

Posted by: Superhawk996 Jan 14 2021, 03:58 PM

We can probably all agree it won't go for full song.

What intrigues me is what is the number that it would take to move it out the door?

Posted by: 914_teener Jan 14 2021, 04:03 PM

I learned something....incredible.

Thanks Clay!

Posted by: 914_teener Jan 14 2021, 04:07 PM

Well....what? My thought is 80k-90k to get $140k and then you tip the scales to break even at 36K

Posted by: Superhawk996 Jan 14 2021, 04:14 PM

I look at it differently since I could do all the work myself. $26,321.72 out the door. $10K in metal. Endless man hours at $0.02/hour. Decent real /6 driver. Pride in job well done. Not to mention this is the type of /6 project you could put flares on, convert to GT, etc., and not have to feel bad about cutting up a decent stock(ish) /6.

It would literally take me a decade though. I have too many other things I'd rather do once my /4 is done than to start the process all over again.

Agree that once you start farming out the work and paying $100/hr shop labor it becomes a game of diminishing returns.

Posted by: jaredmcginness Jan 14 2021, 05:50 PM

Yes, it is “worth” saving. I hope it goes in the right hands - or pockets - Especially if it’s a real deal 69.

I knew this would get good commentary...

AND

I just had to post the picture of the license plate frame attached to the bumper thats holding on by the skin of its teeth, ha!

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 14 2021, 06:10 PM

BHCC is predictably pragmatic, they will let it sit since they have the room and let the price drop in small increments until someone takes a flier on it.

They will let you spend hours going over the car in person so anyone with questions on the car or paperwork or VIN or body stamping can do their diligence in person.

I predict it will be bought and restored, which is a happy thing.

BTW - if you want to talk scary look at some of their Healeys and E-types. Those make this 914, even though they look superficially better, likely restoration cost look like pocket change.

Posted by: pete000 Jan 14 2021, 06:21 PM

Nice Patina !

Posted by: Rav914 Jan 15 2021, 09:31 AM

I'm all for clones and reproductions these days. I used to scoff at them, but now they make total sense. Especially when looking at this abused former boat anchor. For $36K how nice of a 1970 2.0 914-6 conversion could you get? Or how close could you get? I'm talking everything including the steering column, gauges, suspension, etc. Light Ivory on black with 15" Fuchs.

Posted by: 914_teener Jan 15 2021, 11:35 AM

I'm like reaching the age where I look at that and then for the money involved...why not a GTS?

Someone will save it.

Posted by: BuddyV Jan 15 2021, 11:53 AM

At least it's an honest presentation (photo, at least).... That photo says two thousand words.

Truth in photography.

Posted by: 914_teener Jan 15 2021, 12:12 PM

I quess the bungee cord is included with the sale.

Posted by: davep Jan 15 2021, 04:43 PM

I do know the VIN, and it is very early. The paint code is doubled 11-11 which I only know of a very few very early ones with that code form. The engine is not matching, and no one is brave enough to get underneath it to get the trans # or check to see if the rear calipers are 914/6. I am still considering it, but I wouldn't pay even half of asking.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 15 2021, 04:57 PM

Nope, nope, nope.

Posted by: drem914 Jan 15 2021, 05:09 PM

Posted by: ValcoOscar Jan 15 2021, 05:13 PM

It can and shall be saved if indeed an original SIX...seen worse repaired to perfection by one of our SoCal guys.

https://drive-my.com/en/blogs/entry/the-other-outlaw-3-0-litre-flat-six-engine-porsche-914-6.html

Oscar

Posted by: mb911 Jan 15 2021, 05:17 PM

That is not any worse then what I started with.

Posted by: 930cabman Jan 15 2021, 05:26 PM

Thanks for posting, I feel VERY fortunate the example in our shop is mostly solid. Somebody is probably crazy enough to put this mess together. With this amount of work, how good can the finished product be??

Posted by: mb911 Jan 15 2021, 05:27 PM

Like this.. mine was worse.. check out my build thread

Posted by: flyer86d Jan 15 2021, 05:32 PM

If it’s a real -6, it is worth saving. We have seen it on this website. It has to be purchased at the right price to make it doable. What seems expensive now is a future bargain.

Charlie

Posted by: wonkipop Jan 16 2021, 05:01 AM

i think i saw cars still driving around in chicago in 89 that were as bad.
almost.
if you know what i mean.
maybe the arse was not hanging off them, but you could put your hand through the holes. they had proper wheels back then - were not rolling on a space saver spare.

someone will fix that.
why not.
its a bit pricey but?

i would dispute the salesman's drug trip that its the basis for a restoration.
it could only lead to a reconstruction?
that is legit. its an industrial object not a leonardo da vinci.

i've seem some other stuff on the net.
a wrecker in california advertises burned 6 wrecks that date from 1972 with hefty price tags. 20K. only good for cutting the vin numbers out of. nothing else there usable.

BHCC seem to specialise in rough cars like they are sh*t magnets?


ps.
i discovered there were more photos.
bit lazy on the first look.
its strangely clean looking all on top of petrol tank and charcoal cannister area.
maybe got parked a long long time ago and left to rot.
and got picked over.
strange car.
sort of reminds me of what some 6 wrecks i looked at 30 years ago way up north in wisconsin might look like now. (actually they were worse, they had been in big wrecks).

Posted by: iankarr Jan 16 2021, 07:41 AM

Looks like BHCC finally patched that crack in the floor!

Posted by: 914forme Jan 16 2021, 08:00 AM

I have one that is a way better starting point and can be had for a bit more, number matching, mostly all the original parts. What I thought was fair value as it sits now makes me thing it is a six figure car today......



People get what they will get for this car hope them best of luck with the sale. I looked at a worse unit in Columbus Ohio in the 90s they wanted a grand for it, and what you got was a VIN, and loads of iron oxide. I could have picked it up in my Ford Ranger, and most likely I would have taken the VIN plates and put them in the cab. That way I did not lose the part as all the rust flying out as I am driving I-70.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Jan 16 2021, 09:27 AM

I'll just state for the record that I recognize you have not done this and are stating it tongue in cheek.

Likewise, for the record, swapping VIN's is illegal. In the eyes of the law, and those interesed in cars, their history, and collecting, there is a big difference between restoration of a /6 vehicle and it's VIN vs. cutting the the VIN out and simply pasting the parts into a good /4 donor.

I'll agree in theory that in the most extreme example I've given of simply pasting a VIN the end result may not be much different than the tale of "My Grandfather's Axe". However, obscuring the orgin of a vehicle is not moral, legal, or ethical.

Again to be clear, I'm using 914forme's example for illustrative purposes, not implying that he does this or would condone it. I've bought parts from him and found him to be nothing but a generous, kind soul, and all interactions with him have been seamless and I hold him in high regard.

Having once been the victim of this type of VIN swapping on a supposed /6 back in the late 90's I fear that is what is likely to happen to this car in the wrong hands.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 16 2021, 10:00 AM

Couldn't clean it up any better...

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 16 2021, 10:16 AM

If anyone is serious about the car just call them and ASK.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 16 2021, 10:19 AM

someone will certainly restore it

Posted by: wonkipop Jan 16 2021, 04:38 PM

its certainly illegal to transfer a VIN # to another chassis in aus.
the chassis is considered under law to be the car - once the chassis can no longer be repaired the car is terminated. in legal terms. at least for the purposes of road registration and use. (i think repair is defined to in terms of percentage of chassis - for instance a cut and shut is a NO NO which is not to say they are not done but.....)

the laws were drawn up originally to combat car theft in aus. exactly how that works in practical real world terms is difficult to say as the idea of extensive restoration was not a consideration in this country.

i've heard its different in the UK where it is legal to replace the body shell (chassis) and the vin # can be transferred. but i might have heard wrong. an example were the heritage body shells for mgbs that were once marketed? if i have the story right the cars did not get new vin#s but remained the "original" car. the english considered proof of ownership of the original car as the instrument that legitimised the car. The body shell was considered a part, more or less the same as a spark plug. disclosure would have been part of the equation however.

car restoration is getting pretty academic - definitely entered the world of quasi "art" objects. thats a good thing.

i guess what settles questions is disclosure and provenance.
being able to trace the condition of a car over its history.
not necessarily to prove its always been in good condition.

914/6s are rare - any left deserve regard.
values allow a serious restorer to do that and cover the cost.
hopefully the prospect of unusual profit is never motivation, just not losing $.
you would be a brave man on this one?

but a reconstructed car has merit.
the merit is in it being able to be used again and driven?

i know one thing, when you finished you wouldn't think twice about taking it out and giving it a thrashing to make yourself smile. you can get insurance to cover the risks.

you would be pretty brave to drive an original 914/6 in unmolested excellent condition out on the roads.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jan 17 2021, 10:53 AM

I just did the research on this, to make sure I was completely legal with the fixes required for Betty's 914. I asked the commander of the auto theft task force where I work.

In Texas, you cannot cut out the VIN number from a chassis and transfer it to another chassis. That would get you jail time. But if you remove the whole inner fender that has the VIN number stamped in it, and put it in another chassis, that is legal. The part the VIN is stamped into is considered the car. The rest of the stuff is just attached to it. And on a 914, the VIN is only stamped in the right front inner fender. The VIN plate in the windshield and the data plate are riveted in, and the compliance sticker is not a stamped in part. So legally, in Texas, the right front inner fender is the car. The rest are just replaceable parts. Granted, some are more easily replaced than others, but that is the legal definition.

NOTE: THIS IS ONLY THE LAW IN TEXAS. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO ANY OTHER STATE! AND I AM NOT A LAWYER, AND THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVISE!

As for driving an original six on the road, we do it on a regular basis. Granted, this is not a daily driver, but it is a numbers matching original six.




Why would no not drive it? A car becomes an expensive art piece if it is never driven.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 17 2021, 11:41 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 - And that is why I really want a set of Gas-burners for my car. Clay & Betty, your Six is stunningly beautiful.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 17 2021, 11:45 AM

And Porsche's don't do well when they are left to sit.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 17 2021, 12:35 PM

This '70 9146 was offered to me ( in 1974) by a friend at a body shop, for $3,000 on behalf of the Ins Co. that totalled it. Pre-1980 days you could fix these "Totals" and be issused a clean pink slip
The car went into a telephone pole, 901 transaxle mounts split apart, the engine pushed into the interior sheet metal, and the front of the car moved rearwards. In those days as a student, and no availability of inexpensive 2nd hand 914 parts...and running 9146's could be had for $5 to $6k; it was a No for me.
In today's money that would be a candidate to straighten out & save.

Posted by: 930cabman Jan 17 2021, 01:19 PM

Getting back to the post, it has a 6 in the engine compartment and the ign switch is left of the steering wheel. I would estimate this as a $70.k restoration (at least) , that brings us to over $100.k. Only your crystal ball knows where things are going with the market.

Posted by: flyer86d Jan 17 2021, 01:46 PM

When I restored my 58 Coupe, I wanted a car I could drive. I bought a numbers matching $1200 hulk in 1981 and started cutting and welding. A friend that was perhaps one of the best metal men born was going into business shortly after. He rebuilt the structure with a combination of nos and aftermarket sheet metal. Perhaps the only panel that didn’t require repair was the engine lid. Eventually, he painted it and started assembly as I was working a real job at the time. I did rebuild the mechanicals, brakes and reupholstered the interior and gave him the parts to install. I drove the car home in September 1995 and drove it in good weather until I sold it at a very weak moment in 2010.

The point is, this is a car that you could build into a usable driver if you did as I did and go thru everything and rustproof the internals. You just have to buy it right. My 68 911 is almost done. I have a 61 Roadster as the next project that I bought right in 1988 and then my -6.

Buy it and restore it or buy it and put it away until you can. My 2 cents.

Charlie