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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Subaru 5 and new 6 speed cable shift info
Posted by: mepstein Feb 6 2021, 06:06 PM
Good info. Thanks
Posted by: Mayne Feb 6 2021, 08:19 PM
So what’s the benefit of the six speed? Are the lower gear ratios closer or does it give a longer top gear? Interesting option for sure.
Posted by: 76-914 Feb 6 2021, 10:32 PM
Hey Ross, Thx for posting that. Here is a list of the suby 5 &6 speed transmissions and their gearing. http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/trannychart/trannychart.pdf
Posted by: CptTripps Apr 27 2021, 01:09 PM
For example: Would this one work? Non-STI 6sp from 2015
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402674382802?epid=1039500073
Posted by: 914Subaru Apr 27 2021, 02:07 PM
QUOTE(CptTripps @ Apr 27 2021, 01:09 PM)
For example: Would this one work? Non-STI 6sp from 2015
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402674382802?epid=1039500073
That should work, it is a split case. I found no difference in the WRX Non STI to the Forester other than the price is a lot more than the Forester. I have yet to find gear ratios for these boxes and they maybe different between the Forester and WRX.
Posted by: 914Subaru Apr 27 2021, 02:12 PM
QUOTE(914Subaru @ Apr 27 2021, 02:07 PM)
QUOTE(CptTripps @ Apr 27 2021, 01:09 PM)
For example: Would this one work? Non-STI 6sp from 2015
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402674382802?epid=1039500073
That should work, it is a split case. I found no difference in the WRX Non STI to the Forester other than the price is a lot more than the Forester. I have yet to find gear ratios for these boxes and they maybe different between the Forester and WRX.
For reference here is a picture of the conversion parts I have from Subaru Gears out of Australia.
Posted by: 914Subaru Apr 27 2021, 02:17 PM
QUOTE(914Subaru @ Apr 27 2021, 02:12 PM)
QUOTE(914Subaru @ Apr 27 2021, 02:07 PM)
QUOTE(CptTripps @ Apr 27 2021, 01:09 PM)
For example: Would this one work? Non-STI 6sp from 2015
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402674382802?epid=1039500073
That should work, it is a split case. I found no difference in the WRX Non STI to the Forester other than the price is a lot more than the Forester. I have yet to find gear ratios for these boxes and they maybe different between the Forester and WRX.
For reference here is a picture of the conversion parts I have from Subaru Gears out of Australia.
One more picture
Posted by: CptTripps Apr 27 2021, 02:43 PM
QUOTE(914Subaru @ Apr 27 2021, 04:07 PM)
That should work, it is a split case. I found no difference in the WRX Non STI to the Forester other than the price is a lot more than the Forester. I have yet to find gear ratios for these boxes and they maybe different between the Forester and WRX.
Good call! Switch the word WRX for Forrester and the price drops $600...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123991067747
Posted by: 76-914 Apr 27 2021, 02:58 PM
Thx for that update Ross. How about some pic's & info on using the factory shifter set up. Also, would you post a pic of the transmission's sticker showing the model number? Kent
Posted by: Amenson Apr 27 2021, 03:29 PM
From what I can find online the difference is the final drive.
WRX is 4.11
Forrester is 4.44
With the engine you are building Doug...you definitely don't want the 4.44.
Posted by: 914Subaru Apr 27 2021, 03:49 PM
QUOTE(76-914 @ Apr 27 2021, 02:58 PM)
Thx for that update Ross. How about some pic's& info on using the factory shifter set up. Also, would post a pic of the transmission's sticker showing the model number? Kent
Sorry I don't have anything on the shifter yet.
The number you are looking for TY751.
Cool that 914 is in the number.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 15 2021, 04:03 PM
After a brief look elsewhere, why the 6 speed? Wouldn't the Impreza MT5, with 3.90, work?
Posted by: cali914 Dec 15 2021, 07:42 PM
Great info I have the 5 speed set up in the garage. Just waiting for the 901 to blow.
Posted by: 914Subaru Apr 9 2022, 09:30 AM
Subarugears.com has a lot of good information on Subaru gear ratios and a calculator.
Both the 5-speed and 6-speed split case have been made with 3.90, 4.11 and 4.44 final drive ratios. For me I choose the 3.90.
This is one comparison of the 5 and 6 speed ratios to give you an idea of the difference.
5MT non Turbo 3.45 / 2.06 / 1.45 / 1.09 / 0.78
6MT non Turbo 3.45 / 1.94 / 1.30 / 0.97 / 0.82 / 0.69
Posted by: Montreal914 Apr 9 2022, 01:44 PM
Not in the market for a Subaru conversion but curious as to weight comparison between 901 gearbox vs. Subaru 5 and/or 6 speed?
Posted by: 914Subaru Apr 9 2022, 04:55 PM
QUOTE(Montreal914 @ Apr 9 2022, 02:44 PM)
Not in the market for a Subaru conversion but curious as to weight comparison between 901 gearbox vs. Subaru 5 and/or 6 speed?
Avoid the 6-speed STI unless your very ambitious as it is much bigger and heavier and last I checked no one makes a coupler for it.
The 6-speed cable shift is basically the 5-speed with the 6th gear added on the end. I did not weigh them when I had the opportunity but the have got to be almost identical.
I can't speak for the 901 but there are others in the group I am sure that can. My guess they are in the same ball park.
The later 5-speed are stronger with wider first and second gears. All 6-speeds have this. 5-speeds are out of production and low mile boxes are harder to find. I found a low mile 6-speed really cheap.
Posted by: jeff Apr 10 2022, 09:25 AM
How difficult would this be to put behind a type iv or a Porsche 6 ? I think some of the Subaru transmissions have pull clutch levers ,some have push levers. Flywheel,clutch and starter differences. Do people swap out the pedal assembles for hydraulic clutch types?
Posted by: partwerks Aug 4 2022, 06:49 PM
QUOTE(Amenson @ Apr 27 2021, 01:29 PM)
From what I can find online the difference is the final drive.
WRX is 4.11
Forrester is 4.44
With the engine you are building Doug...you definitely don't want the 4.44.
What do those numbers translate to in the final drive?
Posted by: partwerks Aug 4 2022, 09:41 PM
QUOTE(914Subaru @ Apr 9 2022, 07:30 AM)
Subarugears.com has a lot of good information on Subaru gear ratios and a calculator.
Both the 5-speed and 6-speed split case have been made with 3.90, 4.11 and 4.44 final drive ratios. For me I choose the 3.90.
This is one comparison of the 5 and 6 speed ratios to give you an idea of the difference.
5MT non Turbo 3.45 / 2.06 / 1.45 / 1.09 / 0.78
6MT non Turbo 3.45 / 1.94 / 1.30 / 0.97 / 0.82 / 0.69
So is the MT5, or the 6 speed TY751, the better option?
Posted by: partwerks Aug 5 2022, 08:23 PM
QUOTE(914Subaru @ Feb 6 2021, 07:10 PM)
Do you have pictures of the shifter?
If it doesn't have a speed sensor, is the sensor, and magnet like some setup, another way of doing it?
Posted by: partwerks Aug 5 2022, 08:25 PM
QUOTE(Amenson @ Apr 27 2021, 01:29 PM)
From what I can find online the difference is the final drive.
WRX is 4.11
Forrester is 4.44
With the engine you are building Doug...you definitely don't want the 4.44.
Which is better for lower rpm's in the road gear?
Posted by: 76-914 Aug 6 2022, 08:08 AM
QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 5 2022, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE(Amenson @ Apr 27 2021, 01:29 PM)
From what I can find online the difference is the final drive.
WRX is 4.11
Forrester is 4.44
With the engine you are building Doug...you definitely don't want the 4.44.
Which is better for lower rpm's in the road gear?
Given the 2 choices from above, the 4.11 would be. If your going 5 speed there are several 3.9 final drive transmissions and two 3.6. Here is a shopping list. https://www.rallispec.com/downloads/Transmission%20ID%20Chart_Public.pdf
Posted by: partwerks Sep 19 2022, 09:17 PM
QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 6 2022, 06:08 AM)
QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 5 2022, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE(Amenson @ Apr 27 2021, 01:29 PM)
From what I can find online the difference is the final drive.
WRX is 4.11
Forrester is 4.44
With the engine you are building Doug...you definitely don't want the 4.44.
Which is better for lower rpm's in the road gear?
Given the 2 choices from above, the 4.11 would be. If your going 5 speed there are several 3.9 final drive transmissions and two 3.6. Here is a shopping list. https://www.rallispec.com/downloads/Transmission%20ID%20Chart_Public.pdf
I don't see any with a FD of 3.6. I only see one 3.7, but that year is a push style.
Posted by: partwerks Oct 27 2022, 08:26 PM
QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 6 2022, 06:08 AM)
QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 5 2022, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE(Amenson @ Apr 27 2021, 01:29 PM)
From what I can find online the difference is the final drive.
WRX is 4.11
Forrester is 4.44
With the engine you are building Doug...you definitely don't want the 4.44.
Which is better for lower rpm's in the road gear?
Given the 2 choices from above, the 4.11 would be. If your going 5 speed there are several 3.9 final drive transmissions and two 3.6. Here is a shopping list. https://www.rallispec.com/downloads/Transmission%20ID%20Chart_Public.pdf
I didn't see any with the 3.6 final drive?
Posted by: 76-914 Oct 29 2022, 07:13 PM
QUOTE(partwerks @ Oct 27 2022, 07:26 PM)
QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 6 2022, 06:08 AM)
QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 5 2022, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE(Amenson @ Apr 27 2021, 01:29 PM)
From what I can find online the difference is the final drive.
WRX is 4.11
Forrester is 4.44
With the engine you are building Doug...you definitely don't want the 4.44.
Which is better for lower rpm's in the road gear?
Given the 2 choices from above, the 4.11 would be. If your going 5 speed there are several 3.9 final drive transmissions and two 3.6. Here is a shopping list. https://www.rallispec.com/downloads/Transmission%20ID%20Chart_Public.pdf
I didn't see any with the 3.6 final drive?
They are 3.7 not 3.6. Probably about 2mph difference at 3300 rpm. There is a calculator on this site that will show you the engine rpm at "X" mph using whatever tire size you are running. I think once you see the minor difference you will not be so concerned with the difference. Which TY model number were you looking at that is a push style rather than the pull style?
Posted by: eric914 Oct 30 2022, 09:00 AM
QUOTE(jeff @ Apr 10 2022, 08:25 AM)
How difficult would this be to put behind a type iv or a Porsche 6 ? I think some of the Subaru transmissions have pull clutch levers ,some have push levers. Flywheel,clutch and starter differences. Do people swap out the pedal assembles for hydraulic clutch types?
I had the same thought. I have a 3.2 6 in my car and fear really pushing it. Years ago, I started down the Suby conversion path and still have a 1998 JDM 2L WRX motor with a Kennedy engineered products motor adaptor plate and clutch sitting in the corner of the garage. I wonder if the 914 clutch disk would fit in the Suby clutch assembly?
Posted by: 76-914 Oct 30 2022, 02:17 PM
QUOTE(eric914 @ Oct 30 2022, 08:00 AM)
QUOTE(jeff @ Apr 10 2022, 08:25 AM)
How difficult would this be to put behind a type iv or a Porsche 6 ? I think some of the Subaru transmissions have pull clutch levers ,some have push levers. Flywheel,clutch and starter differences. Do people swap out the pedal assembles for hydraulic clutch types?
I had the same thought. I have a 3.2 6 in my car and fear really pushing it. Years ago, I started down the Suby conversion path and still have a 1998 JDM 2L WRX motor with a Kennedy engineered products motor adaptor plate and clutch sitting in the corner of the garage. I wonder if the 914 clutch disk would fit in the Suby clutch assembly?
Some people do switch out pedal assemblies but it isn't necessary. You can easily convert your 914 pedal cluster to hydraulic. You will use the old clutch tube as the conduit for the AN-3 hydraulic hose. Conversely you can convert the old cable system to work with a Subaru transmission. I don't recommend this as it is more difficult than converting to hydraulic and you are left with the problematic cable or clutch tube weld failing.
Posted by: kerensky Nov 1 2022, 03:56 PM
QUOTE(eric914 @ Oct 30 2022, 10:00 AM)
I have a 3.2 6 in my car and fear really pushing it. Years ago, I started down the Suby conversion path and still have a 1998 JDM 2L WRX motor with a Kennedy engineered products motor adaptor plate and clutch sitting in the corner of the garage. I wonder if the 914 clutch disk would fit in the Suby clutch assembly?
Dibs on your 3.2?
Posted by: partwerks Nov 2 2022, 07:26 PM
QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 29 2022, 05:13 PM)
QUOTE(partwerks @ Oct 27 2022, 07:26 PM)
QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 6 2022, 06:08 AM)
QUOTE(partwerks @ Aug 5 2022, 07:25 PM)
QUOTE(Amenson @ Apr 27 2021, 01:29 PM)
From what I can find online the difference is the final drive.
WRX is 4.11
Forrester is 4.44
With the engine you are building Doug...you definitely don't want the 4.44.
Which is better for lower rpm's in the road gear?
Given the 2 choices from above, the 4.11 would be. If your going 5 speed there are several 3.9 final drive transmissions and two 3.6. Here is a shopping list. https://www.rallispec.com/downloads/Transmission%20ID%20Chart_Public.pdf
I didn't see any with the 3.6 final drive?
They are 3.7 not 3.6. Probably about 2mph difference at 3300 rpm. There is a calculator on this site that will show you the engine rpm at "X" mph using whatever tire size you are running. I think once you see the minor difference you will not be so concerned with the difference. Which TY model number were you looking at that is a push style rather than the pull style?
Sounds like they only made the one I wanted for two years, but is the push style, and not the pull.
https://www.pmpautogroup.com/product-p/ty754vw7aa.htm
Is it possible to put a 3.7 FD, into a trans that has a 3.9?
Posted by: partwerks Nov 2 2022, 07:37 PM
QUOTE(914Subaru @ Apr 27 2021, 12:17 PM)
QUOTE(914Subaru @ Apr 27 2021, 02:12 PM)
QUOTE(914Subaru @ Apr 27 2021, 02:07 PM)
QUOTE(CptTripps @ Apr 27 2021, 01:09 PM)
For example: Would this one work? Non-STI 6sp from 2015
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402674382802?epid=1039500073
That should work, it is a split case. I found no difference in the WRX Non STI to the Forester other than the price is a lot more than the Forester. I have yet to find gear ratios for these boxes and they maybe different between the Forester and WRX.
For reference here is a picture of the conversion parts I have from Subaru Gears out of Australia.
One more picture
So all Subaru transmissions are AWD, or do they make a FWD?
These parts convert the AWD?
Posted by: 914Subaru Jan 17 2023, 12:15 PM
Now there is a kit to use the STI transmission.
The STI transmission is the ultimate when it comes to Subaru boxes. There has been someone in this group that has made their own kit that requires some welding and advanced talent for sure. Now being easier I would consider this kit if I was to do another. Although a new engine transmission cradle would need designed.
Posted by: Chris914n6 Jan 17 2023, 03:41 PM
QUOTE(partwerks @ Nov 2 2022, 05:26 PM)
Sounds like they only made the one I wanted for two years, but is the push style, and not the pull.
https://www.pmpautogroup.com/product-p/ty754vw7aa.htm
Is it possible to put a 3.7 FD, into a trans that has a 3.9?
I was looking into that too. But it's really only 200 rpm at 90 mph in 5th and a few mph difference at redline in each gear. 10 mph at top speed. Not worth the trouble.
3.9 vs 4.4 that's a different story.
Posted by: ahycaramba Jan 18 2023, 10:59 PM
QUOTE(Amenson @ Apr 27 2021, 01:29 PM)
From what I can find online the difference is the final drive.
WRX is 4.11
Forrester is 4.44
With the engine you are building Doug...you definitely don't want the 4.44.
I'm really confused
I been using the calculator on subarugears website. According to my calculations on a 5 speed manual trans why would you want a final drive of 4.44 or 4.11 that tops out early at 113 mph or so in 5th gear @ 5000 rpm but when you have a final drive of 3.54 or 3.9 that will get you a top speed of around 130 mph at 5000 rpm.
Am I missing something? STI and WRX run F/D of 4.11 or 4.44 and cost much more than 3.54 or 3.90. Shifting points on a F/D 3.90 or 3.54 seem to be more desirable than the 4.11 or 4.44.
am I wrong and would I be losing power / torque due to taller gears?
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