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Posted by: 930cabman Feb 11 2021, 01:39 PM

Making the conversion to a 6 cyl, we have several choices to make with mounts, exhaust, fuel, oil tank, engine tin, ....

I recently purchased the OEM mount from Mad Dog, you couldn't ask for a better fit. It nestled into the recess and allowed basically no room for error. I socked it in with a couple self tapping screws and went ahead with the plug and fillet welds.
I removed the paint from the mounting surfaces with paint stripper and cleaned it up with a sanding disc prior to welding

From what I understand the factory placed additional reinforcement in this area. Running the welds for this mount I sensed it the way my MIG was acting. I bet you could pick the entire car up from this mount. Very well done Mad Dog

Posted by: mb911 Feb 11 2021, 03:51 PM

Perfect..

Posted by: Root_Werks Feb 11 2021, 04:37 PM

What a great fit, I have his other bulkhead mount. Both are top-notch products.

Posted by: Robarabian Feb 11 2021, 10:18 PM

I just got mine in the mail. Thanks for the photos.. helpful ...

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 12 2021, 11:58 AM

Mine fit like a glove. I did clean the base steel prior to welding. Good luck, give Dave a thumbs up

Posted by: maddog Feb 14 2021, 03:12 PM

All the thumbs up go to Mark at Original Customs, he did the design work. I just fabricate them, but thanks all the same!

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 14 2021, 04:42 PM

Disagree Dave,

my vote would give half to Mark and half to Mad Dog. Great product/design

Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 14 2021, 10:22 PM

any chance of seeing a few pics 'as received'..... before install ?

Posted by: mepstein Feb 14 2021, 11:00 PM

Rory - this pic is from the website.


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Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 15 2021, 01:26 PM

a visit was made.....thank you Mark
and thank you Madog for producing the most logical mount.
now that the repro rubber part is available IMHO this is the best choice

Posted by: mepstein Feb 15 2021, 02:21 PM

I agree. I purchased this mount for my next car. I just need the two metal plates that support the oem rubber mount.

Posted by: mb911 Feb 15 2021, 02:29 PM

I personally suggest this mount to all my customers. I probably should just inventory them as its almost a daily request.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 15 2021, 10:03 PM

Are these other parts necessery / provided / available ?
Requires a high strength bolt too. ( 10.9 , 112mm shouldred shaft, 12 x 1.5 )


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Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 15 2021, 10:10 PM

Posted by: mepstein Feb 15 2021, 10:49 PM

yes

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 16 2021, 06:05 AM

I have welded the Mad Dog chassis portion into my conversion project, but the 2.7 is still at the engine builder. Mad Dog states a Wevo mount is required to complete the installation, about $90.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 16 2021, 07:32 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24877

Per previous notes from @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892

The Wevo mount goes into the 2nd plate with round hole that was supplied with the Maddog mount. Ben seemed happy with the isolation from the Wevo mount.

OEM 914/6 mount eliminates the adapter plate and the wevo mount.

As an automotive engineer that has worked on NVH and highly values low NVH in my own vehicles, I will be using the 914/6 OEM mount for the following reasons

1) Now readily available and only slightly more expensive than the Wevo mount.

2) I don't like the way the Wevo mounts in the secondary adapter made of flat plate. That flat piece of plate steel isn't very stiff in dynamic bending in Z plane relative to the rest of the mount that has lots of form and is directly welded to the chassis. What your really want is a mount structure with at least 10 times more stiffness than the isolator itself. I'm not convinced the steel plate and the Wevo isolator will achieve this goal.

3) The OEM mount has way more rubber for isolation and will have a much lower rate in Z plane than the Wevo mount and will better faciliate meeting the ratio of 10:1 between mount stiffness and isolator stiffness. The result should be much better isolation.

4) Based on the above info, I belive Porsche did their homework and designed the OEM 914/6 mount towards this end. Good isolation in the Z plane without overly compromising X/Y plane that would lead to diminished steering and handling performance.

People have vastly different appreciation for NVH so by no means and I saying the Wevo mount won't mount the engine. I'm sure it will. I also belive it probably does a decent job based on Ben's feedback. However, for reasons above, and my desire for a powertrain mount that is optimized, I belive that is best achieved with the OEM engine mount, and that is what I'll do.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 16 2021, 07:55 AM

It's great to have an engineers confirmation ! Thank you Superhawk996

The skill for fabricating the chassis part and the engine part is obvious.
Are the two plates to complete the set too much to ask ?
Am I foolish for asking ?

Posted by: mepstein Feb 16 2021, 08:13 AM

I think mcmark/maddog used and adaptor with the wevo mount because a couple years ago, the oem mounts were not being made, at least not at reasonable pricing. Now uro and porsche have the mounts available as low as $120. It looks like it would be pretty easy to reproduce the two mount plates and like superhawk, I'd like to use the oem rubber mount.

Posted by: mb911 Feb 16 2021, 08:29 AM

Those plates would be awesome. If I had samples I would have. Bunch made.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 16 2021, 08:32 AM

I was just going to fabricate my own plates for the 914/6 mount and source the fastener. Not really a big deal.

I totally get why the Wevo mount was the original plan when the 914/6 mount wasn't being reproduced.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 if you fab them, I'm 1st in line

Posted by: mepstein Feb 16 2021, 08:50 AM

Rory ?

Posted by: maddog Feb 16 2021, 10:22 AM

Hi Guys, with the help of Luke M, we think we will have a viable design to replicate the bottom and top plates that you are discussing....more to follow soon.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 16 2021, 11:30 AM

Awesome!

I saw this on ebay.




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Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 16 2021, 11:32 AM

amazing!

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 16 2021, 11:41 AM

No doubt from my perspective,

This board ROCKS

thanks to all

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 16 2021, 11:47 AM

Well, that was motivation enough to get me to stop procrastinating and actually order the URO mount.

Thanks

Posted by: maddog Feb 16 2021, 12:02 PM

Hopefully I can have prototypes to Luke sometime next week so he can compare them to his original top and bottom plates...stay tuned

Posted by: Luke M Feb 16 2021, 12:57 PM

Just an FYI for those who are gonna shop around for the URO engine mount. There's two styles, one is org style rubber and the other is heavy duty.

Part #'s : 914 375 049 00 and 914 375 049 00 HD


I have both on hand but have not used either one just yet.

Posted by: nditiz1 Feb 16 2021, 01:03 PM

Hey thanks for posting the pics of your weld. This is invaluable. I should be starting mine relatively soon and have the same mount.

Now, I currently have the Wevo setup sitting with the mount, I wonder if I should abandon it for the OEM style.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 16 2021, 01:39 PM

If you'd rather have originals on hand to work from I'm willing to lend them
with your guarantee they be returned.
But....maybe I should know your name first !
PM me and we can work out the details
Rory

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 16 2021, 02:32 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=18763

Can always swap it later . Ben posted elsewhere that he was pretty happy with it and that he had set up his car for comfort ride rather than as a track car.

I'm just very picky. The downside of my job is that I used to get paid to do NVH work. Once you learn how to hear and feel some things in tuning a car, you can't un-hear or un-feel them.

I'm the guy that can point out a squeek, or high pitched whistle you've never heard. Or maybe that low frequency vibration you thought was the road . . . but really isn't. From that point on, you'll hear or feel it daily and then it'll drive you mad. I've learned to never point out such things in my friends and family's cars!

Posted by: maddog Feb 16 2021, 02:36 PM

Here is what Im thinking for the bottm plate?

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 16 2021, 02:55 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=710

Looks pretty good.

Assumed constraints on my part based on what I see:
laser / plasma cut
Welded at seams

Need to be thick enough gauge to avoid "blowout" when the snubbers engage.

From previous picture posted I think this one is showing minor signs of heavy snubbing somwhere in it's past. Not a big deal but would be nice to proactively address it. Still totally functional as-is.



I was figuring I'd machine them as one-off but I totally get sheetmetal weldment is the way to go to keep price resonable and to match OEM look. Woundn't have any hesitation about your proposal as long as it is as thick as OEM or a tad more.

Have you considered Titanium? . . . . Just kidding.

Posted by: maddog Feb 16 2021, 03:04 PM

Hawk, I think the thickness of the bottom plate is about 2.5 mm(.098"), Im going with 12 ga steel which is about .105" thick?

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 16 2021, 03:30 PM

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 16 2021, 04:04 PM

Overall I'd say that is great and pretty comparable.

The 0.007" inch won't net much in terms of increase in stiffness or durability of the snubber. The shape has more to do with stiffness than the slight add of thickness.

Might 11 gauge (0.125") work and/or might be cheaper and easier to obtain?

The downside is don't have parts in front of me to know if that thickness add of another 0.020" causes other problems as part of the overall sytem. I don't think so. I'd rather have a stiffer snubber than one that deflects.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 17 2021, 07:23 AM

Just my $.02...

This is a great project, and I think it is great for any small six. But I have seen a factory six with a Euro 3.2 in it, and the mount was damaged from the extra torque. We pulled the motor, stop drilled the cracks, and welded in reinforcement to keep it from tearing more. The Porsche engineers who designed this mount were not anticipating something like a 3.6L engine when they built it. So I would use something like this in a six conversion for a small six, up to maybe 3.0L. Anything bigger and I would put in a Rich Johnson mount, or a NaroEscape mount. Using two mount points instead of one is better for high horsepower cars.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 17 2021, 07:31 AM

Solid advice. In my case I'm putting in a 2.4L No issues.

When you start puting big motors in - you're on your own. Motor mount, transmission, axles, brakes, suspension pick up points, etc. All need to be addressed as a system.

Typical hot rod flaw is to just plop a big motor in and think you're done and that you've actually improved the vehicle.

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 17 2021, 07:57 AM

A little wisdom, experience goes a long way in this case. I would bet the engineers in Stuggart knew how much power their engine mount would accommodate and did not plan on 4 liter beast engines. Some guys are cranking 300+ hp and asking an OEM style mount to hold together. I was considering using a two point mount, but went with the Mad Dog unit. Our 914/6 build will not be abused and never see the track

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 17 2021, 09:00 AM

You can be sure they never planned on 4.0L engines back in the day.

When I lived in Italy back in late 80's the gasoline, road taxes, and insurace costs would have been exorbitant to feed a 4.0L! Would imagine Germany would have been similar.

Posted by: mb911 Feb 17 2021, 09:31 AM

The 914-8 has a beefed up version of this style mount. Just sayin

Posted by: mepstein Feb 17 2021, 09:38 AM

Don't a lot of the modern Porsche's use a single engine mounting point? I thought there was a thread discussing it. Maybe McMark's original thread on developing the mount. I remember someone saying the Porsche engines don't twist in the mounts like a Chevy V8 and at least a couple people have used them on their 3.2-3.6 conversions for years. RonS have a six chassis with wide flares and a 3.6 and stock Porsche firewall mount.

I'm using it on my next 3.2 conversion. Thank you to Maddog for making the stock style mounting plates.

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 18 2021, 10:27 PM

Mittelmotor makes the plates.

They are not cheap, but they are nice:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Auflage-oben-fur-Motorlager-Porsche-914-6-914-375-057-00-91437505700-Neuaflage/174115764297?hash=item288a1bb849:g:41MAAOSwOXRd54sD

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Auflage-unten-fur-Motorlager-Porsche-914-6-914-375-158-00-91437515800-Neuaflage/184069548686?hash=item2adb666a8e:g:HDQAAOSwvFJd543x

Hope these links work.

I picked up a set for my IMSA restoration a while back.

I bought the large bolt required from AutoAtlanta (inexpensive) after not being able to find the specs for it anywhere, although people have since posted them.

John

Posted by: maddog Feb 19 2021, 04:05 PM

got the blanks the other day, formed them up, just have to weld them now.

Posted by: mb911 Feb 19 2021, 04:10 PM

Very cool. Gonna want a set for sure. I may contact you about inventory on these kits.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 19 2021, 04:38 PM

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 19 2021, 05:30 PM

Dave is on the case for sure, keep up the good work/service

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 19 2021, 07:06 PM

Posted by: maddog Feb 23 2021, 09:26 AM

so not happy with how the first prototype turned out, I did a couple of changes and just ordered a new set of blanks

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 27 2021, 11:12 AM

Update on OEM mount

Got the engine side back from powder coat. Looks great!



Yesterday I received the URO mount p/n 914 375 049 00 Appears to be nicely made.

Did a quick trial fit to put URO mount into the body side bracket . . . almost!



Not a big deal really, but the body side bracket will need a little clearnace work to properly fit the the radius of the URO isolator can.

I want to be really clear - I don't see this as reflecting poorly on the Mad Dog mount or the URO isolator.

When you're doing these sorts of conversions with hand made parts, a little finessing is part of the game. Knowing many will likely use the Wevo mount, it wouldn't even be an issue. The isolator holes line up perfectly though! Great job making allowance for use of the OEM style isolator!

Likewise, there could be minor difference in the URO isolator can vs. the 914/6 mount isolator that Mad Dog built his orignal prototype to. Again, I'm just very glad URO is reproducing the 914/6 mount that was NLA for quite a while.

Mock ups and trial fitting are all part of the game. Just wanted to post my situation and prep others for need to do a little fitting to make it all work.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 27 2021, 11:16 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=710

Really not so bad for a 1st try. Definately usable. Love that you're seeking perfection!

Keep us posted when you get something you're happy with. I call dibs on 1st in line to buy from you!

Posted by: mepstein Feb 27 2021, 11:29 AM

I'll take a set. And if you could supply the bolt, it would be nice.

I received the uro rubber mount from quickly from the ebay seller. It looks good. The cheapest I could find the sport version was close to $200 so I'll stick with the normal version for now.

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 27 2021, 01:37 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=57 , we are in a similar boat, but I have welded the mount to the chassis "assuming" everything would fit! The URO mount arrived the other day and I am seeing the same interference. The answer: Wevo mount, shim the URO mount, grind a portion of the mount, ... I am hoping for a straightforward solution.

Such is the conversion

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 27 2021, 01:43 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24877

Let me play with mine today on bench.

I'm thinking it's just radiusing the body side bracket a smidge. I'd rather get it all on the bracket so that in the future I can use new mounts without rework.

Shimming will raise engine at front, you don't want that.

Wevo is a no-brainer but in my case I absolutely want the 914/6 OEM isolation.

I'll report back by end of weekend

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 27 2021, 03:12 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24877

Oh man, that was beyond simple.



All I had to do was radius the corners a bit, took a smidge off the back side, and leveled a weld bead. 36 grit on a 2" disk and it was done in like 15 minutes.




No modification done to the URO isolator.

Fits perfectly now.

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 27 2021, 06:48 PM

Hawk, guess I should have tried a test fit prior to welding the chassis portion.

Thanks, I am just about done with the structural work with our project, but still have quite a few different fish we are frying. Floor is coming up, still need to practice overhead plug welding.

Great board with a great bunch of guys/gals

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 27 2021, 06:54 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24877

You'll be able to tweak the body side bracket it in the chassis without any issue at all.

Probably goes without saying . . . be sure to position your body so that it is not directly under the puddle.

Wear a leather welding jacket.

Be safe!

Posted by: maddog Feb 28 2021, 07:58 AM

Hi guys, Hawk is right about the URO mount interference. I had Luke check his OEM mount fitup and it was the same. Hawk has the best solution for anyone that already has the mount, just get a grinder and put a nice 4-5mm radius on the two edges and the URO mount will drop right in. Dont worry about removing that little bit of material to get the radius because there is a nice fillet weld behind the wall. I did one in my bench vise and it only took minutes like Hawk said.

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 28 2021, 01:22 PM

for comparison..


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Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 28 2021, 03:13 PM

Thanks for the pic of the OEM sheetmetal. I initialy investigated trying to find OEM metal but that was a losing proposition both from availability and cost perspective. Nice score!

Yup, that explains it -- softened radius vs. MadDog mount that was a sharp corner that interfered with the URO mount.

A few minutes with the grinding disc and I'm good to go.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 28 2021, 03:58 PM

I sold an oem mount for $600 a couple years ago. It went quickly with multiple offers. Probably double now.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=190279&hl=



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Posted by: 930cabman Feb 28 2021, 04:52 PM

Yep,

Hawk has the fix, I had the chassis portion welded in, never to come out. About 15 minutes with a die grinder. DONE

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 28 2021, 05:02 PM

Ralph meaney showed me one of his engine consoles that that had a piece steel overlapping the mount ,,,see pic below..


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Posted by: maddog Mar 1 2021, 06:18 AM

I plan on opening up that area on my next set of blanks, but I will modify the rest of my current stock for any customer that does not plan on using the WEVO mount.

Posted by: maddog Mar 10 2021, 11:54 AM

UPDATE: got the new blanks formed and tig welded, going to drop these off to get plated today or tomorrow

Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 10 2021, 12:34 PM

Posted by: maddog Mar 18 2021, 04:56 PM

just picked these up from the platers, turned out nice! Should have these up on the website by tonight or tomorrow.

Posted by: maddog Mar 18 2021, 04:57 PM

here is the top bracket

Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 18 2021, 05:51 PM

Posted by: mb911 Mar 18 2021, 06:04 PM

What will pricing be at? I want to bring in some inventory (complete mounts)

Posted by: Krieger Mar 18 2021, 06:39 PM

Nice work!

Posted by: maddog Mar 18 2021, 07:12 PM

Ben, parts are live on the website now. Upper bracket $80 and the lower bracket is $50, I only have 8 of each available for this first run. Depending on how fast these go, I will do a larger quantity run next.

Posted by: Luke M Mar 19 2021, 06:46 AM

I have some of these new plates on the way to me..
It was great dealing with Dave during the building of these.
We went back and forth for what seamed like weeks (really only a few days) getting these just right.
Great guy, great products, and great customer service. What more can one ask for.
Now buy these up..

Posted by: mepstein Mar 19 2021, 07:27 AM

I just bought a set.
Dave - Way to respond quickly to your customers requests!

Posted by: maddog Mar 20 2021, 08:05 AM

Thanks Luke, I couldn't have made these without help from members like you. This is what I love about this forum, there is always someone willing to help or share knowledge.

Posted by: Luke M Mar 22 2021, 11:54 AM

Look what showed up today...

All fits well and gonna put it aside for a future project.
Thanks again to David (Maddog) for making these items.




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Posted by: mepstein Mar 22 2021, 12:04 PM

Luke - thank you for your assist.

Posted by: Root_Werks May 11 2021, 11:24 AM

I'm bulkhead mount heavy at the moment. Originally ordered the MD mount that uses the modified 911 bar. Recently ordered this "original" style mount and really like it. Just ordered the kit with the factory mount and hardware. Pretty excited for this mount as it looks like you don't have to relocate anything.

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 11 2021, 12:00 PM

There are lot of positive design elements built into the OEM braket and isolator that I don't see in the other aftermarket solutions.

I don't think you'll regret using this design unless you're using very high HP outside of what the factory GT ran.

Big thanks to Maddog for making these as well as the mounting hardware kit.

Posted by: mb911 May 11 2021, 06:25 PM

Dan,

Good deal glad you went for this style mount

Posted by: Root_Werks May 12 2021, 09:29 PM

Thanks Ben, still had to relocate the brake pressure regulator.

Gotta get some new lines.




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Posted by: maddog Jun 23 2021, 03:07 PM

!!!Attention!!! anyone who bought the hardware installation kit from me for the OEM replica mount please contact me. The supplied 140mm bolt is TOO SHORT, you will need a 150mm bolt. So please contact me through the world or my website maddogsmotorsports.com

thanks

Posted by: pencap914 Aug 31 2021, 02:02 PM

I had a little time this weekend to finally weld this up. Fits like a glove!

Posted by: Root_Werks Aug 31 2021, 02:21 PM

Looks great! I do really like this mount, super beefy and installs nicely.