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Posted by: SirAndy Jul 20 2005, 06:51 PM

ok, i got the 944 CV's off the shaft ...

i wanted to know if the wear was too bad so i took them apart.
looking good! almost no wear (came off a 944 turbo) ...

i cleaned them up thoroughly as i was told not to mix different kinds of CV grease and now the question is:

how do i pack them with new grease?
grease the parts first, then try to assemble or assemble dry and then pack the whole thing?
Andy

Posted by: ejm Jul 20 2005, 06:58 PM

I assemble them dry and then pack them

Posted by: flesburg Jul 20 2005, 07:13 PM

Well, I agree put them together dry and then pack the heck out of them.

By the way they are a real trick to get together. If you have never done it you will "invent" a couple dozen new curs words. Please let us know what they are.

I did a few, and then learned that my son could do it, must be like a rubic cube that I could never get either.

So I whine at Johnman and he does all of them now.

Posted by: TimT Jul 20 2005, 07:31 PM

Yes, dont force anything when putting them back together.. when you get it right it falls in place like solving a rubics cube...

then get yourself a handful of grease and start working it into the joint... you kind of want to scrape the grease away from your hand while packing the joint.

Its FUN

Posted by: jonwatts Jul 20 2005, 08:35 PM

So Andy,

Why are you doing this? Were your old CV's cr@p or is there some kind of upgrade going on here?

Always curious,

Jon

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 20 2005, 08:40 PM

QUOTE (flesburg @ Jul 20 2005, 06:13 PM)

must be like a rubic cube that I could never get either

no problem there, i'm still able to solve the cube, in my hayday (20 years ago) my times were between 30 and 40 sec. for the entire cube.

nowadays it's around a minute ...
Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 20 2005, 08:49 PM

QUOTE (jonwatts @ Jul 20 2005, 07:35 PM)

Why are you doing this? Were your old CV's cr@p or is there some kind of upgrade going on here?

both ...

i have had one bad axle ever since i got the car. lots-a-play. clonk clonk clonk ...
that, and my desire to have *real* 5 lug in the rear and not just redrilled hubs and the fact the bradhole lost my 914-6 stubaxles made me look for alternatives.

i used clay's shopping list and assembeled all parts needed (from tranny to wheel)

- late '70s 911 drive flange that will fit the 901 but have the larger 6-bolt 911 flange
- 944 turbo CV, will fit the flange
- 914 axle, will fit the CV
- 944 turbo CV, will fit the axle
- 944 turbo stub axle, will fit the CV
- early 911 hubs (pre ~'73) fit the 914 wheel bearing and will fit the stub axle

this will give you *real* 5-lug at the hub as well as bigger/stronger CVs and the assembly has the correct length (unlike early 911 axels) ...

NOTE: in my search for parts, i came across a set of 914 axles that had a different spline!
john at EASY wasn't sure if they were aftermarket or 914-6, but the standard 914-4 axle has 32 splines (so has the 944 turbo) and said pair had only 24 splines and thus didn't fit.
so watch out for the correct splines (count 'em)

Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 20 2005, 11:09 PM

YUK




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Posted by: SirAndy Jul 20 2005, 11:10 PM

all clean ...




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Posted by: McMark Jul 21 2005, 12:20 AM

What's your $ for this conversion? If you're willing to share.

Posted by: Howard R Jul 21 2005, 01:57 AM

use protcorial gloves!!

Posted by: sj914 Jul 21 2005, 02:05 AM

What did you use to clean them with. I tried blasting my cv's with brake cleaner and the grease just don't budge.

Posted by: wilchek Jul 21 2005, 10:07 AM

Looks good Andy, good to see you got the seal boot off. Once you figure it out, it all makes sense and one of those oHHHH, that make sense moments come. How hard was it to find the part for the conversion and did you buy anything new?

Posted by: bd1308 Jul 21 2005, 10:15 AM

QUOTE (sj914 @ Jul 21 2005, 02:05 AM)

What did you use to clean them with. I tried blasting my cv's with brake cleaner and the grease just don't budge.

do tell.....

Posted by: Demick Jul 21 2005, 10:22 AM

In general, it's not a good idea to take these apart and then put them back together unless you kept track of what ball went in which hole. The balls and races wear together as a set. When you mix them up, it can cause accelerated wear problems. Very similar to gear sets in the transmission that you wouldn't want to mix and match once they have been 'run-in' together.

In many cases it will be fine, but just as a general rule it's better to keep the balls in their orginal races.

Demick

Posted by: bondo Jul 21 2005, 10:28 AM

QUOTE (Demick @ Jul 21 2005, 09:22 AM)

In general, it's not a good idea to take these apart and then put them back together unless you kept track of what ball went in which hole. The balls and races wear together as a set. When you mix them up, it can cause accelerated wear problems. Very similar to gear sets in the transmission that you wouldn't want to mix and match once they have been 'run-in' together. In many cases it will be fine, but just as a general rule it's better to keep the balls in their orginal races. Demick

How do you clean them then? Just clean it with it together and repack? Pretty hard to label the balls.

Posted by: Paul Illick Jul 21 2005, 10:33 AM

QUOTE (McMark @ Jul 20 2005, 10:20 PM)

What's your $ for this conversion? If you're willing to share.

I've assembled the same parts. Paid $65 for the output flanges, $50 for two 951 axles with good CV's and boots. and $35 for the 951 stubs. That's a lot more than just drilling the 4 lug hubs, but I want those big CV's. That way I can break the transmission instead of just some lousy 914 CV's.

Posted by: bondo Jul 21 2005, 10:42 AM

QUOTE (Paul Illick @ Jul 21 2005, 09:33 AM)

That's a lot more than just drilling the 4 lug hubs, but I want those big CV's. That way I can break the transmission instead of just some lousy 914 CV's.

How does the strength compare to the 911 shaft/cv with spacers route? (that's what I have)

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 21 2005, 10:59 AM

QUOTE

What's your $ for this conversion? If you're willing to share.

i don't have the prices yet as john at EASY let me take all the parts i had on the list and make sure it all fits before he charges me. i'll know the exact prices by next week ...

QUOTE

What did you use to clean them with.

screwdriver, rag and brake cleaner.
i used a screw driver to remove the big chuncks of grease. then used a shop rag to remove most of the rest, then sprayed it down with brake cleaner and wiped off the rest ...

QUOTE

How hard was it to find the part for the conversion and did you buy anything new?

no new parts, all used. the 944 turbo axles and stub axle are PLENTY and easy to get. so were the early 911 hubs.
the later 911 tranny output flange was a bit harder to find, EASY only had one set.
i also got two 914/4 axles to take the shafts from, but he's got 100s of those ...

QUOTE

In many cases it will be fine, but just as a general rule it's better to keep the balls in their orginal races.

agreed! but the 944 CVs i got have virtually no wear on them, so i'm hoping it'll be fine ...

QUOTE

How does the strength compare to the 911 shaft/cv with spacers route? (that's what I have)

should be about the same. from comparing the two, the CVs look very similar in size.


Andy

PS: actually, i lied about the "no new parts" ...
i'm going to use NEW gaskets on the 911 tranny output flanges where they meet the 944 CV!
the 944 CVs itself doesn't use a gasket, but when you mate it to the 911 flange, you'll need one. standard 911 output flange gasket.

Posted by: Demick Jul 21 2005, 11:46 AM

QUOTE (bondo @ Jul 21 2005, 09:28 AM)

How do you clean them then? Just clean it with it together and repack? Pretty hard to label the balls.

You don't have to label the balls themselves, just put them in a numbered container (like an egg carton that you have numbered).
The housing is easy to label or just mark in one place and use a numbering scheme that you can remember.

Demick

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 21 2005, 04:36 PM

im told 915 coarse spline outputshafts are a PITA to find....

everything else is gravy.....
BTW - anyway to drive the 914 stub out and replace it with the 951 part WITHOUT buying new rear bearings???

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 21 2005, 04:48 PM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jul 21 2005, 03:36 PM)

im told 915 coarse spline outputshafts are a PITA to find....

well, Mr. EASY said that there were a couple of years (late '70s) not just '75 and they shouldn't be too hard to come by. he had one set right there, and probably 100 915s he obviously didn't want to go through and check ...

QUOTE

BTW - anyway to drive the 914 stub out and replace it with the 951 part WITHOUT buying new rear bearings???

true, i forgot to mention that i already have a set of new trailing arms with new wheelbearings where all this stuff will be fitted into ...

Andy


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Posted by: Marty Yeoman Jul 21 2005, 06:42 PM

QUOTE

i don't have the prices yet as john at EASY let me take all the parts i had on the list and make sure it all fits before he charges me.

Does this mean success will cost a little more?

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 21 2005, 06:49 PM

QUOTE (Marty Yeoman @ Jul 21 2005, 05:42 PM)

Does this mean success will cost a little more?

no, that means that failure will be FREE and success will cost me $$$.
and the $$$ hasn't been discussed yet ...

Andy

Posted by: scotty b Jul 21 2005, 07:10 PM

Andy, I'll try my best to explain how to re-assemble. put your inner race inside the cage, put two of the bearings in 180 deg. apart. Slide the race/cage and 2 bearing setup inside the outer race holding the two at a 90 deg angle to each other (cage horizontal and the race and bearings vertical) this way the two bearinbgs will easily slide into the two opposite tracks. Once this has been done, add the remaing bearings and rotate the whole assembly 90 deg's. You may have to push a little to get everytjhing to seat but shouldn't have to BEAT it in. Now check for movement. it will be a little akward feeling but should move in all directions. If it binds up really bad look at the inner and outer races, you will notice that the "tooth" pattern is : wide / space for bearing / narrow : the wide and narrow spaces should NOT line up. You need a wide tooth on the inner to match up to a narrow tooth on the outer.. Once packed and boots attached you will notice the assembly is not as loose and should move freely without binding. Hope you could follow my ramblings. It's a PITA no matter how many times you do it. I just did a set on an Audi quattro yesterday, drivers went smooth, passengers

Posted by: neo914-6 Jul 21 2005, 07:24 PM

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Jul 21 2005, 08:59 AM)

the later 911 tranny output flange was a bit harder to find, EASY only had one set.

Yeah I bought the other set a couple of months ago. I was told by a member he only paid $30 (ea or for a pair, not sure) and when I told John at EASY, he said that was before they knew they were "desirable". Maybe it was because of the RGruppe group. Anyway, they made me feel $100 was a good deal...

I'm running mid-70's 911 shafts/CV's. I bought complete trailing arms with axles and CV's already set up for the 914 so maybe there are 951 parts too.

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 21 2005, 07:46 PM

QUOTE (scotty b @ Jul 21 2005, 06:10 PM)

It's a PITA no matter how many times you do it.

i'm not sure why, but the 6-ball 944 CV seems to be really easy to re-assemble ...

i'll take pics in just a minute ....
Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 21 2005, 08:29 PM

WARNING: LOTS OF PICTURES AHEAD ...

this is fun, just like the rubiks cube!


start by lining up the inner and outer race, just so you remember how to put them together.
see where the grooves on the outer race are closer together in pairs? the larger "nose" on the inner race has to point towards those ...


now slide the inner race into the cage and turn in to line up with the holes in the cage.



add two balls 180 deg. from each other


and slide that into the outer race (lying flat on the bench)


lift up the inner race and cage just enough to add another ball


just do one ball at a time going around


until you got all 6


voila!


moves just the way it's supposed to! but careful, it'll fall apart really easy as well ...


one thing, the 944 CV has a groove on one side which points to the outer side of the CV, away from the axle.
also, the inner race has a flat side and a raised side, the flat side goes towards the outside. not sure if this is important, just something i noticed ...


inner (raised) side of the inner race



now all i need to do is pack it with grease!
Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 21 2005, 08:35 PM

oh, and here is what i started with. took me less than 5 minutes ...

Andy


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Posted by: nebreitling Jul 21 2005, 10:12 PM

damn, andy -- you could be a hand-model. really. nice hands

Posted by: McMark Jul 21 2005, 10:37 PM

Show off. If you hadn't taken so many Andy pictures I would suggest using them for a new Tutorial page.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Jul 22 2005, 09:24 AM

Nominate this one for clasic thread or how to status

Posted by: rdauenhauer Jul 22 2005, 09:25 AM

Andy did you paint or Powder coat (yellow ) the shafts?

Posted by: brer Jul 22 2005, 10:35 AM

so does that mean that with these parts,

944 turbo CV, will fit the axle
- 944 turbo stub axle, will fit the CV
- early 911 hubs (pre ~'73) fit the 914 wheel bearing and will fit the stub axle

you could frankenstein up real 5 lug hubs on the rear, without messing with the stock trans.????? and without drilling? thats very interesting.

I realize that thoroughness and a quest for quality workmanship would demand changing the trans parts.

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 22 2005, 10:55 AM

QUOTE (brer @ Jul 22 2005, 09:35 AM)

I realize that thoroughness and a quest for quality workmanship would demand changing the trans parts.

yes, that's possible ...

i'm not sure how it would effect the axle if you run two different types of CVs on one axle.
the 914 CV is much smaller ...

Andy

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 22 2005, 11:09 AM

Andy,
You don't need the 914 axle shaft. The 944 shaft is the same length.

For those of you who AREN'T cheap, you can buy complete rebuilt axle assemblies for 300.00 a side.

944 turbo CVs are 100 bucks a piece new.


Oh, and the 914 /6 uses a different number of splines on the axle shaft. If you found an axle with one, buy it! It's worth money to any 914 CW who just has to have the absolute right parts.


BTW. .I got all the parts to do my car for under 200.00, including the drive flanges for the transmission.

And Andy, Thanks for the pictures of the CV joint cleaning and reassembly. That is my project for this evening.

Posted by: flesburg Jul 22 2005, 11:26 AM

Andy:

WOW!, Andy, That is the slickest picture story of a how to on cv joint assembly I have ever seen. Flat on a bench!!, so the balls do not fall out in your lap. I'm going to print out your set of pictures, and then I'm going to try this over the weekend with an old cv joint. I bet even I can do this.

I have always tried it setting down in a chair and at a table, but with the cv joint in my hands and a little clean grease to make the balls sticky, but then there is a solution for every puzzel, we just go through life without the solutions. Too soon old and too late smart as they say.

Is there a similar "solution" to the rubics cube?

Thanks for sharing the solution, and with such a neat set of pictures.

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Jul 22 2005, 01:17 PM

QUOTE

WOW!, Andy, That is the slickest picture story of a how to on cv joint assembly I have ever seen.

Andy, your photographing skills have improved over the years!!! I can see everything clear and in focus!!


Jeff

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 22 2005, 01:20 PM

QUOTE (Jeffs9146 @ Jul 22 2005, 12:17 PM)

QUOTE WOW!, Andy, That is the slickest picture story of a how to on cv joint assembly I have ever seen. Andy, your photographing skills have improved over the years!!! I can see everything clear and in focus!! Jeff

he must not have taken the pictures....

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 22 2005, 01:23 PM

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Jul 22 2005, 10:09 AM)

You don't need the 914 axle shaft. The 944 shaft is the same length.

no, it's about 1" longer ...

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 22 2005, 01:38 PM

They must have changed the length somewhere in the production run. The axles I have are the same length as a 914 axle.


Good info to know though......

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 22 2005, 01:40 PM

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Jul 22 2005, 12:38 PM)

They must have changed the length somewhere in the production run. The axles I have are the same length as a 914 axle. Good info to know though......

what would i expect to pay at a pick n pull for stubs/axles/cv's ???

50 bucks or so? then i need 915 output shafts and 911 hubs....

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 22 2005, 01:41 PM

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Jul 22 2005, 12:38 PM)

They must have changed the length somewhere in the production run. The axles I have are the same length as a 914 axle. Good info to know though......

i don't have the camera with me right now, but just holding them next to each other i'd say at least 1" longer ...

i only saw 2 different 944 axles at EASY, the earlier style for the steel trailing arms which are way too short and the 944 turbo ones for the aluminium trailing arms and those are longer than the 914 axles shafts.

i'll take pictures later.
Andy

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 22 2005, 01:42 PM

all 944 Cv's are the same though right?

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 22 2005, 01:43 PM

You need the 944 CVs for the aluminum trailing arms. The other ones won't work.

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 22 2005, 01:43 PM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jul 22 2005, 12:42 PM)

all 944 Cv's are the same though right?

from what i could tell, they are.

but the early 944 stub axles won't fit the 914 ...
Andy

Posted by: bd1308 Jul 22 2005, 02:30 PM

ahndy, what did you use to clean off the grease from the CVs?

Posted by: Cano Jul 22 2005, 02:35 PM

Britt:

When i did my CVs, I wiped most grease off with a paper towel, then used brake cleaner, which dries and leaves no residue.

Posted by: neo914-6 Jul 16 2007, 10:48 PM

QUOTE(neo914-6 @ Jul 21 2005, 06:24 PM)

<!-- QuoteBegin SirAndy+Jul 21 2005, 08:59 AM --></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SirAndy @ Jul 21 2005, 08:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!-- QuoteEBegin --> the later 911 tranny output flange was a bit harder to find, EASY only had one set.
<!-- QuoteEnd --></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!-- QuoteEEnd -->
Yeah I bought the other set a couple of months ago. I was told by a member he only paid $30 (ea or for a pair, not sure) and when I told John at EASY, he said that was before they knew they were "desirable". <!-- emo&:screwy: --><!-- endemo --> <!-- emo&:lol: --><!-- endemo --> Maybe it was because of the RGruppe group. Anyway, they made me feel $100 was a good deal...

I'm running mid-70's 911 shafts/CV's. I bought complete trailing arms with axles and CV's already set up for the 914 so maybe there are 951 parts too.

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 17 2007, 12:21 PM

QUOTE(neo914-6 @ Jul 16 2007, 08:48 PM)

Posted by: MZM Aug 6 2007, 06:04 PM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jul 17 2007, 11:21 AM)

QUOTE(neo914-6 @ Jul 16 2007, 08:48 PM)

Hey Andy,

Were your flanges identical? I sold mine and the buyer found two descrepancies:
1 they are two different lenghts .250 different
2 the shaft dia is not correct after the spline

After I get them back I'll provide more details to inform the members. They are apparently from two different transaxles. Hopefully EASY will find a correct match

yes, they were. just re-sealed the tranny a month ago and had both out ...
Andy

Posted by: Luke M Aug 7 2007, 09:50 AM

I picked up a set of 915 course spline drive flanges for $80 with shipping.
Post an add on Pelican that's how I got mine. Several people replied so I know some are still out there. I also picked up some 944 axles 6 bolt 100mm cv's
( enroute to me now ) , a set of 911 6 bolt 100mm stubs, and early 911 hubs.
So far spent $365 on parts. When I get the axles in I plan on laying out the 914 parts next to the 911/944 parts to see if theyre the same length. I'll post some pics when I get all the parts on hand.

Posted by: neo914-6 Aug 7 2007, 12:00 PM

QUOTE(Luke M @ Aug 7 2007, 08:50 AM)

I picked up a set of 915 course spline drive flanges for $80 with shipping.
Post an add on Pelican that's how I got mine. Several people replied so I know some are still out there. I also picked up some 944 axles 6 bolt 100mm cv's
( enroute to me now ) , a set of 911 6 bolt 100mm stubs, and early 911 hubs.
So far spent $365 on parts. When I get the axles in I plan on laying out the 914 parts next to the 911/944 parts to see if theyre the same length. I'll post some pics when I get all the parts on hand.

Posted by: Luke M Aug 7 2007, 01:53 PM

Neo looks like you are using the 4 bolt flanges?
I picked up some used mid to late 70's 915 drive flanges that have 6 bolts to mount the 100mm cv's ( which is the same as the 944 cv's ), and yes they fit the 901/914 trany. I'll post some pics later when I get the axles in.

Posted by: neo914-6 Aug 7 2007, 06:16 PM

QUOTE(Luke M @ Aug 7 2007, 12:53 PM)

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 7 2007, 08:56 PM

QUOTE(neo914-6 @ Aug 7 2007, 04:16 PM)

Posted by: Luke M Aug 8 2007, 06:13 PM

OK received the 944 axles today. Looks like the 944 axles are .5'' too long.
I put the 911 6 bolt stubs/drive flanges on the 944 axle and they fit with no problem. I'm not sure if the longer 944 axle is going to be a big problem if I ran them. The alternative is to have my 914 axles modified to fit the 944 cv joints.
My car is in 1000 pieces and have no way to check the fitment of the axles.
I did take some pics of 914 and 911 flanges side by side, 914 & 911 axles, 911 6 bolt stubs and drive flanges.


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