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Posted by: newto914s Jul 20 2005, 09:17 PM

This is the 4th time I’ve adjusted them and every time I do it I feel that I do a better job, but my car keeps sounding worse.
I adjusted them in April and the car sounded and performed great. Around 6 weeks ago I checked the compression and got some low reading (especially on #2, 60psi). So I thought I’d reset the valves and check the compression again. So I reset the valve clearance again and from that point my car has been driving funny. It was very clickity-clack, and wouldn’t rev past 5k.
Now today I reset them again(3rd X in two months), less clicking, but still won’t rev past 5k, unless I only press the throttle down ¼ the whole time.
Is this simple because I set them wrong, or could this be related to my low compression numbers, i.e. valve guides that are so far worn the extra .2mm is allowing valve float?
76 2.0 d-jet

Thanks guys
Samson

Posted by: Rand Jul 21 2005, 01:03 AM

Dumb question, just to be sure: What are the exact clearances you are setting them too (intake and exhaust), and what year/size engine?

Posted by: newto914s Jul 21 2005, 01:22 AM

QUOTE (newto914s @ Jul 20 2005, 07:17 PM)

76 2.0 d-jet

.006(.15mm) intake
.008(.2mm)exhaust

I've read the bird board and a bunch of threads up here about setting the clearance and feel I have it pritty close, but who knows.

Posted by: CptTripps Jul 21 2005, 06:22 AM

He has a 76 2.0 D-Jet. I heard the car after he'd done them. Sounded like a Diesel John-Deer tractor.

I'm going to be interested to see how this plays out. As I've never done a valve adjustment before, I need to see what to look out for.

Posted by: SGB Jul 21 2005, 06:38 AM

At the bottom of the Pelican Parts tech article on valve adjusting, there is an addendum of sorts where someone adds their version of the valve asdjusting proceedure- which valves are to be adjusted based on which valves are open- really helped my confidence in feeling like I was on the right mark (I always cross-checked to see if the timing marks showed on the impeller after I rotated the engine to get the different sets of valves to the "adjust now" position). Dang thats a long sentance. Hope it makes sense. Look at the "Valve adjustments made easy" tech article:http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/914_valve_adjust/914_valve_adjust.htm

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 21 2005, 07:06 AM

it may be that you did nothing wrong but there is a more serious problem.

when you adjust the valves, are they very far out of adjustment?

valves that tighten up by themselves may be stretching.
valves that loosen up by themselves may be dropping seats.

both these conditions never get better by themselves and will eventually destroy the engine.

could be you have a broken valve spring.

it may be time to pull off the rockers and REALLY LOOK at the valves and springs.

the valve adjustment procedure is not difficult once you "get it" but until it clicks in your head it can get confusing, so double-checking everything is always a good idea.

i don't really know how else you'd check for serious valvetrain issues; hopefully someone with more experience with /4 engines will have better ideas/

Posted by: redshift Jul 21 2005, 07:58 AM

I think the valves are toast... exhaust valves.


M

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jul 21 2005, 08:58 AM

THE VERY FIRST THING you do is make sure you have solid lifters. Look at the valve gear and report back. Hydraulic setups most often have solid spacers between the rockers, solids have springs in there. If you determine they're hydraulic lifters, you set them differently. If they're solids, you use the method I've listed here in the last couple of months. Then you pull the motor and fix the compression problem. A valve adjustment ain't gonna be the answer. You have a hard time passing 5K RPM because you're dragging along a dead hole. You may also have a timing problem. The Cap'n

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 21 2005, 09:13 AM

I wish I could afford to travel around and fix these problems for people. You know You break it I'll come fix it.
Just think of all the cars that would be on the road now instead of on th jackstands.
Sort of a mission of mercy. You know will fix it for food and beer and a place to rest my head.

Posted by: Headrage Jul 21 2005, 09:30 AM

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jul 21 2005, 08:13 AM)

will fix it for food and beer and a place to rest my head.

Come rebuild my tranny and I'll supply ya with all the beer, food and rest you can stand.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 21 2005, 09:34 AM

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jul 21 2005, 10:13 AM)

I wish I could afford to travel around and fix these problems for people. You know You break it I'll come fix it. Just think of all the cars that would be on the road now instead of on th jackstands. Sort of a mission of mercy. You know will fix it for food and beer and a place to rest my head.

get my car on the road, you'll have steak dinners, kegs of your favorite ale, a place to stay and I'll give you some cash too... where do I send the plane ticket?

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 21 2005, 09:40 AM

Hmm guess I better get mine done tonight Huh?
what kinda beer?

Man that would be the coolest job. Drive around dispatched from the club. Somehow keep track of where I'm at and the closest broken car gets next dibs. or really BIG problems get priority somehow. Just think how long I would be in Kentucky

Sorry RAND.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 21 2005, 09:46 AM

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jul 21 2005, 10:40 AM)

Hmm guess I better get mine done tonight Huh? what kinda beer? Man that would be the coolest job. Drive around dispatched from the club. Somehow keep track of where I'm at and the closest broken car gets next dibs. or really BIG problems get priority somehow. Just think how long I would be in Kentucky Sorry RAND.

you name the beer! I'll put a kegrator in the garage



*only partialy kidding, if someone wants to come by and help out... there's not enough hours in the day for me right now.

Posted by: newto914s Jul 21 2005, 09:46 AM

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Jul 21 2005, 05:06 AM)

when you adjust the valves, are they very far out of adjustment? valves that tighten up by themselves may be stretching. valves that loosen up by themselves may be dropping seats. both these conditions never get better by themselves and will eventually destroy the engine.

The valves were pritty close this time. A little loose, thus the John Deer sound track.
During the ajustment that seemed to present all these problems, a month ago, #2 and #3 or #4 were tight with no clearance.
I feel I "get it" with the valves. I did it in 2 1/2 hours this last time, compared to 8 my first attempt.

Posted by: bd1308 Jul 21 2005, 09:47 AM

Posted by: newto914s Jul 21 2005, 09:54 AM

QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ Jul 21 2005, 06:58 AM)

THE VERY FIRST THING you do is make sure you have solid lifters. A valve adjustment ain't gonna be the answer. You have a hard time passing 5K RPM because you're dragging along a dead hole. You may also have a timing problem. The Cap'n

I'll check the lifters, can I see the valve gear without pulling the engine.
Timing is fine.
The deal with a valve adjustment not curing my problem, is that it pulled fine to the redline prior to the valve adjustment. Now it doesn't. I should have left #2 stuck and I think all would be fine

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jul 21 2005, 12:57 PM

QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ Jul 21 2005, 06:58 AM)

THE VERY FIRST THING you do is make sure you have solid lifters. Look at the valve gear and report back. Hydraulic setups most often have solid spacers between the rockers, solids have springs in there.

Sadly, that's not enough of an identifier any more. The solid spacers have been sold as "upgrades" for Type IV/914 engines for years, so even if you find them it's not necessarily an indicator of hydro valves. I don't know if the "hydro kits" include the spacers necessarily, so finding springs is not a definite indication of solid lifters either.

The only ways to tell that I know of are to pull the pushrods and/or the lifters. The pushrods should be shorter and I think thinner if you have hydro lifters, but I don't know the exact lengths or widths. The lifters will be a bit longer and will look different than the solid ones, I believe.

--DD

Posted by: newto914s Jul 25 2005, 08:31 PM

QUOTE (redshift @ Jul 21 2005, 05:58 AM)

I think the valves are toast... exhaust valves.

I think you're right!
So this would be why anything over 5k rmps is unattainable.
Is it possable to fix this valve with out pulling off the head? With the pain-in-the-@ss factor, and the "just do it right" advice aside, is it possable? I'm thinking quick fix so I can feel somewhat safe driving out to MWC.

Posted by: newto914s Jul 25 2005, 08:31 PM

Opps!


Attached image(s)

Posted by: redshift Jul 25 2005, 08:33 PM

Ouch..

No. Headwork is expensive, but not REEEEEEAL expensive... hmm... valves... how much for parts and labor, Rimco, and SS valves fellas?

RON!!!!!!!!!!!

Holy sheepdip... sorry to be right this time.


M

Posted by: newto914s Jul 25 2005, 08:46 PM

QUOTE (Cap'n Krusty @ Jul 21 2005, 06:58 AM)

THE VERY FIRST THING you do is make sure you have solid lifters. Look at the valve gear and report back. Hydraulic setups most often have solid spacers between the rockers, solids have springs in there.

I don't know where the valve gear is, but those look like springs to me. Is this a good sign for Solid lifter


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Headrage Jul 25 2005, 08:52 PM

Looks like solid lifters to me...

Posted by: CptTripps Jul 25 2005, 09:02 PM

I've got a passenger seat free if you don't want to drive yours...

Posted by: SLITS Jul 25 2005, 09:05 PM

Here ya go....You either have a shitload of crap in your engine or that exhaust valve is getting real hot (baked on oil and discoloration).....my opinion only

411 / 914, 356 / 912
Surface (includes grinding fin 356 / 912) - Pair............................... $50.00/$60.00
Open for Large Cylinders (411 / 914) - Pair.................................... $ 60.00
Valve Guides Installed (411 / 914) - Each....................................... $ 10.00
Valve Guides Installed (includes guides) -Each............................... $ 10.00
Seats Finished (3 angle) - Each...................................................... $ 10.00
Bead Blast - Each.......................................................................... $ 20.00
Large Valve Seats Installed (411 / 914) (356 / 912) - Each................ $30.00/$35.00
*Complete reconditioning available, Price depends on type of valves used.
Surface - each............................................................................... $ 20.00
Open for Larger Cylinders - Each.................................................. $ 25.00
Valve Guides (includes guides) - Each............................................. $ 12.00
Finish Seats (3 angle) - Each......................................................... $ 10.00
Recondition Complete (no new valves) - Each.................................. $105.00


http://www.rimcovw.com/prod01.htm

Posted by: newto914s Jul 25 2005, 09:53 PM

Doug, that passanger seat is starting to look pritty good.
I'm figuring a Grand to send both heads out and get them back ready to bolt on. Is that a realistic figure, too high, or too low. I would actually perfer to rebuild them myself(educational, and cheaper), but have read it's better to have them done by an expert(which I am not)
Sugestions?

Posted by: bd1308 Jul 25 2005, 09:58 PM

send out. thats what i'm going to do. my heads arent bad, but they are old and original. oh and #1 spark plug hole is bad....

Posted by: redshift Jul 25 2005, 10:01 PM

I don't think that valve has closed in a long time.


M

Posted by: bd1308 Jul 25 2005, 10:04 PM

wait is that oil baked on the head surface?

Posted by: redshift Jul 25 2005, 10:07 PM

Only one way that happens, like that, fire.


M

Posted by: Headrage Jul 25 2005, 10:08 PM

When it was all said and done it cost me $855.00 to have both of my heads rebuilt at RIMCO. That included welding up some cracks around the plugs and seats.

I didn't have any shipping charges though.

Posted by: redshift Jul 25 2005, 10:12 PM

Can they adjust the valves there?


M

Posted by: newto914s Jul 26 2005, 12:53 PM

One finaly question.
What's the worst that can happen if I try to drive it another 100 miles like this? Just to run the last quarter tank of gas out of it. Am I asking for a dropped valve seat? Or worse? I basicly have to start it at least one more time, and figure I might as well run it out. Bad idea ?

For the head work I'm thinking Len Hoffman at HAM inc, if I can afford it, but I guess I should check out RIMCO too.

Thanks guys
Samson

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 26 2005, 01:05 PM

if it were me, i'd find someone with a lawnmower and a gas can...

are you planning on just getting away with having the heads off? or are you looking to go deeper, to replace rings and rod bearings? if you have the cylinders and pistons out, it'll be a lot easier to look in and see if the cam is in fact OK. there it a reason that exhaust valve failed...

Posted by: newto914s Jul 26 2005, 01:12 PM

I'm hoping just head work.
But figured on changing the rings too. Are rod bearings also and easy WYIT?
I'm thinking the valve failed because of worn valve guides, and/or a shotty valve adjustment
The engine only has 32k on a rebuild

Posted by: redshift Jul 26 2005, 01:33 PM

No other funky noises, previously?

Hmm.. yeah, maybe the guide. When was the rebuild done? How long ago?



M

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 26 2005, 01:39 PM

QUOTE (newto914s @ Jul 26 2005, 03:12 PM)

But figured on changing the rings too. Are rod bearings also and easy WYIT?

they *should* have been replaced as part of the earlier rebuild; even anal-retentive i wouldn't replace them if they had only 32k mi on 'em - and i KNEW they were good.

you have to pull the cylinders to do rings, and with 32k the pistons *should* be pretty easy to remove, although obviously that engine has been working really hard (on 3...). at that point it's pretty easy to pull the rods. it's not easy to accurately measure the crankthrows to make sure you're getting the right bearings (unless you already know if the crank was ground - and how much...) but neither is it horrible.