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Posted by: Millerwelds May 15 2021, 09:20 AM

74 2.0 side shift

Daily driver. One day on my way home I could not get the shifter over to the 4th & 5th gear plane. Worked fine that morning. When I went to leave I started the car in neutral and when I pushed in the clutch I heard a significant pop. I thought the clutch cable tube may have popped and be blocking the shifter in the tunnel. Took all that apart and it appears to be fine both in the tunnel and at the firewall.

Engine and transmissions mounts appear to be correct and tight

Bushings and conical screws at both the firewall and transmission appear to be fine and tight. I had gone through all of them about 5 years ago.

Had the wife wiggle the shifter towards the 4/5 plane and can see the shift rod is hitting the top of the hole in the engine mount bar.

I don't see how the pop I heard when pushing in the clutch would correlate to the shift rod now hitting the engine bar.

I did drive it to work one more time since it happened. I stuck to the back roads where I did not need to go over 50 mph and everything else is working as normal as it always has.

Thoughts?

Posted by: Shivers May 15 2021, 10:03 AM

Okay, shot in the dark...How are the splines on the shifter rod? could it have skipped a spline? Also at the trans shifter console. the rod coming from the interior of the trans itself is two pieces. did that shift out of place? It would only need to drop on that shaft a bit to mess the travel up. Hope it's a cheap fix

Posted by: Luke M May 15 2021, 10:06 AM

If the linkage did not move then you should check your shift bushings and rubber motor mounts.

Posted by: GregAmy May 15 2021, 10:28 AM

And the firewall bearing. Get Tangerine's.

http://www.tangerineracing.com/transmission.htm

Posted by: SirAndy May 15 2021, 11:17 AM

Do you have the correct solid outer mounts for the cross bar or did you (or PO) replace them with rubber mounts?

If you have the solid mounts, check the sheet metal the cross bar is mounted to and make sure nothing has rusted through. The only way that cross bar can drop is if either one of the mounts failed. That's either the bolt(s) came lose or the metal cracked.

Since your shifter is hitting the top of the hole, either the cross bar moved down or the shifter moved up.


PS: Post some pics of all the mounting points and the firewall area where the shifter exits

Posted by: Millerwelds May 15 2021, 12:47 PM

Correct solid outer mounts. No signs of cracking or rust even.

I am starting to think the shift rod moved up. The way it bends I am suspecting it did slip a spine. Everything under the engine area looks like it has always looked as far as I can tell. The splines took a little wear and tear when I redid everything a few years ago.

Driver side mount

Posted by: Millerwelds May 15 2021, 12:48 PM

Passenger side

Posted by: Millerwelds May 15 2021, 12:49 PM

Firewall

Posted by: Millerwelds May 15 2021, 12:50 PM

Firewall other side

Posted by: SirAndy May 15 2021, 02:38 PM

Those look good, how about pictures of the rear transmission mounts?

Posted by: Millerwelds May 15 2021, 05:35 PM

Passenger Side

Posted by: Millerwelds May 15 2021, 05:36 PM

Another angle

Posted by: Millerwelds May 15 2021, 05:37 PM

Driver side

Posted by: SirAndy May 15 2021, 06:02 PM

That looks good too. I think we can rule out any of the mounting points.

Posted by: SirAndy May 15 2021, 06:05 PM

This might just be the camera angle, but in your first pictures, it looks like the engine bar is bent.
The long sleeves that have the bolts inside look like they are bent towards the rear of the car.

Did you bottom out and hit something with the cross bar?

Posted by: bobboinski May 15 2021, 06:45 PM

Look at the difference in post 12 vs 13. I haven't looked at my cars to see if this is normal but the transmission mounts appear to be at opposite ends of their travel. As though the engine/transmission are sitting cocked in the car?

edit Just realized different angles...

Posted by: Shivers May 15 2021, 06:58 PM

The pic with the speedo drive in it the bolt is more towards the muffler Or rear of the car. The other pic shows the console dust cover and axle, looking forward. It looks like the bolt is towards the rear of the car again. The pics are on their sides, I turned my laptop

Posted by: IronHillRestorations May 15 2021, 07:00 PM

Transmission mounts look a little low to me. Could also be the rubber engine mounts. Set the parking brake, start the engine, and have a helper put it in 1st and release the clutch a little while you watch the engine (hatch open). If the engine raises up on one side a couple inches you probably have a bad mount. Not fun to change either.

Posted by: bdstone914 May 15 2021, 07:07 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9206

Can you post a pic of where the shift rod bar is contacting the engine bar?
Have you checked the bushing in the shift console? And that the shift coupler at the trans end of the rod is intact to the rod end with bushing?
Helped a guy with a similar probelm but he had the engine swapped end for end. The shift rod way binding against the bar.

Posted by: Millerwelds May 15 2021, 07:22 PM

Yes it is and has always had that angle to it. The bottom of the bar angles to the rear of the car. There is a large sump (not a tuna can) on the engine that is lower then the bar and I have never caught either on anything. Might have been bent prior to my ownership but always like that since I bought it 12 or so years ago.

Posted by: wonkipop May 16 2021, 12:34 AM

what IHR says. post some photos of the front engine mounts between cross bar and engine. might have been the pop sound you heard? one might have gone already and the other one let go with the noise you heard. i replaced all mine 2 years ago, they were originals. the front ones would not have lasted a week in the car once i had it back on the road after recommission. if they let go the engine is going to move around on its axis and alter the relationship of the shift rod to the engine support bar.

the noise you heard will definitely be connected to whats happened.

i had a gearbox mount let go on a front wheel drive renault. it manifested itself immediately in a clonk from the exhaust system at the rear of the car as things shifted around on axis.

Posted by: Millerwelds May 16 2021, 08:32 AM

Rubber upper engine mounts appear fine. No movement on the engine. I replaced them at some point when I had the engine out after the brass distributor drive gear ate itself.

Also no weird vibration or other issues when driving it after the pop. I will try to get video of the shifter bar hitting the engine bar.

Posted by: bdstone914 May 16 2021, 08:46 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9206
Is the shift rod going thru the bg hole in the engine bar ?

Posted by: Millerwelds May 16 2021, 09:05 AM

Ok did a little more digging this AM. The shifter is hitting the rod in the tunnel a bit. I don’t think it is the only issue though as I should be able to move the tube with the shifter and a lot of force and nothing is moving so I feel like the shift rod is hitting the engine mount bar but I did find this while further inspecting the inside of the tunnel.



The circular plate the clutch tube is welded to cracked and split. That would be the source of the pop. I assume you have to cut open and weld it back to correct? Guess I will start there.

Posted by: Millerwelds May 16 2021, 09:15 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9206
Is the shift rod going thru the bg hole in the engine bar ?
[/quote]

Yes





Bars are hitting each other in the top right of the hole

Both pictures should be turned to the right for proper orientation

Posted by: ChrisFoley May 16 2021, 12:20 PM

Have you removed the plastic cover at the transmission shift console yet?

Posted by: euro911 May 16 2021, 01:15 PM

I'll concur with Andy - the bolt for the engine mount bar on the passenger side appears to be bent rearward. I'd start there, jack up the bar and replace the bolt to see if that cures the issue

Posted by: Millerwelds May 16 2021, 03:07 PM

Yes. All good there as far as bushings and conical screw.

Posted by: Millerwelds May 16 2021, 03:09 PM

... double post

Posted by: wonkipop May 16 2021, 05:55 PM

a rotation of the shift rod under the engine would be one explanation for the contacting with the engine mount bar. you might have to take a good look at the shifter end of the bar in the tunnel and the shifter rod in the tunnel.

sounds like engine mounts can be eliminated, despite the bent engine mount bar where you say nothing has changed since beforehand.

there is a bit of stuff in the factory manual for the adjustment procedure telling you what position the bottom of the shift mechanism should be in for the gear planes.

have you got that manual.

it sounds as if the shift lever rod forced the clutch cable tube out of position causing the popping sound and cracking the cable tube plate rather than the other way around? like something might have let go in the shifter connections to the shift lever etc. maybe. bit hard to tell from the photo.

a mate of mine had the clutch cable tube let go in his 6 about 25 years ago and i helped him fix it. trying to remember what happened. i seem to remember it meant the clutch operation screwed up at the pedal and the car was undriveable. its a long time ago.
this sounds a little bit different, but maybe a clutch cable tube failing can do this?
someone here would know, was something 914s were famous for. touch wood in my case.

Posted by: Millerwelds May 17 2021, 07:21 AM

I think it is the other way around. The pop occurred when I pushed in the clutch so I think that tension caused the crack in the cable tube plate which may have then affected the shift rod.

On another note I just saw your screen name and I find it funny that this whole thing was started by a "Wonkipop".

Posted by: Bartlett 914 May 17 2021, 09:02 AM

One thing that comes to mind is the weld on the shift rod near the shift console often breaks. I would remove the shift rod and check this.

Posted by: wonkipop May 17 2021, 09:22 PM

of course, sorry, i just re-read your description of disaster sequence.

i just had a look at mine, put it in 4 and 5th. there is a fair bit of clearance room there through the engine carrier beam. the rod does not move a great deal up or down in plane in relation to the hole when its all working like its supposed to. i checked through all the gears. the rod stays more or less central in that hole.

something has really moved in yours.

or something only moved a little bit and because the engine support rod was already damaged it was on the edge of jamming but you had been getting away with it and now it finally did foul on the limited clearance due to the bent support carrier.

suggestions to get hold of a good engine support beam make sense.
at least get that part right and then move on to what other issue might have tweaked it into the realm of not working on the engine carrier you presently have.

what do they say about plane crashes. its never one thing. but a sequence?
sounds like maybe the clutch cable tube did pop, would not be unusual in a 914.
(i reach to touch wood again). and maybe then its tweaked the shift rod enough that it jambs. but it would not have jambed if the engine beam was AOK and as it should have been.

Posted by: Millerwelds May 18 2021, 08:12 AM

Agreed. I am going to start with the tunnel repair and see where it ends up. Then engine bar if need be.

Posted by: wonkipop May 19 2021, 03:49 AM

report back when you crack it.
valuable information for owners.

Posted by: Millerwelds May 19 2021, 07:45 AM

Will do