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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 914 V8 or Pantera Detomaso

Posted by: Jaiden Jul 22 2005, 10:14 AM

Guys,
I found an unrestored 1974 Pantera Detomaso GTS that one of my fiance's bridesmaids has stashed away in the family Garage. The Car does not currently run (stored for 14 years) and I could probably get it (if I can gather the money) for a VERY good price.

Which would you guys go for the Pantera or a 914 V8?

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 22 2005, 10:16 AM

pantera.....

Posted by: VegasRacer Jul 22 2005, 10:18 AM

easy question - PANTERA

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 22 2005, 10:22 AM

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Jul 22 2005, 11:18 AM)
easy question - PANTERA

Pantera!

one of my dream cars!

pantera will give a better ROI too...

Posted by: dakotaewing Jul 22 2005, 10:23 AM

Pantera - No doubt about it -

Posted by: spare time toys Jul 22 2005, 10:23 AM

You would go through life like this I could of had a Pantera I could of had a Pantera. The worst it could be is a great swap into a 914 Hold on dont Panteras have RUST issues

Posted by: ! Jul 22 2005, 10:24 AM

You have to ask????

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 22 2005, 10:26 AM

the stuff of sci-fi movies for years.

Godzilla va Mechzilla
Rodan vs King Kong
T. Rex vs allodaurus

you can make a 914-V8 any time; Panteras are where you find them.
they are not practical. they are horribly expensive to operate.
you might be able to slip an engine swap past your insurance agent or state inspection types, but there's no hiding a Pantera.

Pantera all the way...

Posted by: TimT Jul 22 2005, 10:28 AM

Pantera

Posted by: bondo Jul 22 2005, 10:31 AM

Both! (Duh!)

Posted by: jimkelly Jul 22 2005, 10:31 AM

A Pantera of course - put a 1.7L and tailshifter in - that would be icing on the cake

Posted by: Travis Neff Jul 22 2005, 10:33 AM

P P P P P Panterrra

Posted by: Jaiden Jul 22 2005, 10:38 AM

Man you guys are quick!

Yeah I pretty much thought it would go that way. a good 914 v8 can be had for $5000-$8000, but the panteras are going in the $30000's.

Now this one inparticular "should be" ok with the under body rust. The story is that the mom and Dad boaught the car for the daugther as an investment to pay for her college. well she already graduated but is willing to let it go since she wants to use the money towards a house.

I have to start playing the numbers to see if I can come up with the money.
I think the car is worth $25000+. I only got a few minutes to take a look and it was buried in the garage and under a blanket but the body looked straight and the interior looked good too. The car is all original and unmolested.

The restored price for a 74 GTS is in the mid 40's so I think it might be worth.

Think!! Hell I know it will be worth it!!!!!

Now I have to figure out how to pay for the wedding and the car Hmmmm

Posted by: andys Jul 22 2005, 10:44 AM

Before deciding to build a 914 V8, I looked real hard at considering a Pantera. I was surprised at the range of prices and condition. Most that were priced too high, were being offered by Pantera enthusiasts. Like a 914, if you're not in a hurry and you keep a keen eye, you may well come up with a decent car like the one you describe....sitting somewhere in a garage (like my 914 was). Also like the 914, take some time to read up on and educate yourself of what to look for, what to avoid, and what's the value of a potential car. I unfortunately found that what I really liked were the later Euro only cars. They made some subtle modernizing changes that took the car away from that '70's look quite nicely.

Andy

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jul 22 2005, 10:49 AM

RUST! Look for it in the shock towers, as I recall, and the rear floor area. No rust? Buy it! The Cap'n

Posted by: RON S. Jul 22 2005, 10:50 AM

I wish I had your dilemma.

let's see,914,or a Pantera.
Well,I already have a 914.
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTTTTTT
TTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ron

Posted by: tod914 Jul 22 2005, 11:43 AM

No brainer... Pantera. The engine rebuild on that 8 is probally cheaper than a 4 banger rebuild

Posted by: dmenche914 Jul 22 2005, 11:44 AM

I like the Pantera. Other car is the early Lotus Esprit (remember James Bond driving out from the sea in one?)
Neat mid engined car, no V-8 monster (that could be changed!!!!) but a neat looking car, with good potential.

Posted by: neo914-6 Jul 22 2005, 11:50 AM

Use the Pantera ZF in a V8 914 and dump the rest,

I let go a '64 Maserati Sebring because the rust was bad enough to get $20k+ quotes from restoration shops. The Italian FI engine would cost another $15k to rebuild but since the Pantera has a Ford that is not as big an issue. You should know that even a good rebuilt performance V8 engine is at least $5k and can soar to over $10k easily. Rebuilt Pantera ZF's can be done for $9k. Be prepared to pay whatever the seller wants for those rare body parts if you can find them. In the end, if this car needs alot of restoration, it would probably cost less to find a good runner or one already restored.

For resale value, if you get a great deal out of it, and if it doesn't need all the costs above, the Pantera is the best choice...

Posted by: Ferg Jul 22 2005, 11:52 AM

Ahhh, my fantasy car

if you decide to pass, give me a pm will you .

lot's of nice one's for sale here.

http://www.pim.net/pim1.html

Ferg

Posted by: Lou W Jul 22 2005, 11:59 AM

Pantera

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 22 2005, 12:05 PM

I'd give my left nut for a pantera, how's that for value!

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 22 2005, 12:08 PM

Pantera by a wide margin. They have a big showing at annual Concorso Italiano in Monterey. Some of the Panteras there are just incredible.

Posted by: redshift Jul 22 2005, 12:11 PM

=\

Damn! You just missed my Pantera rant.

It's not an everyday driver. Being a 74, it'll have the upgrades that made the earlier ones trouble.. and it'll have one more thing..

The driver: The seat is too low for my shoulders (6'0") the pedals are where your knees go in a 914, and the steering wheel is far enough away to give you severe back pain, after multiple days of just commuting 30 minutes..

But, chicks will stop to look at your crotch.

M

Posted by: Ferg Jul 22 2005, 12:15 PM

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Jul 22 2005, 10:08 AM)
Pantera by a wide margin. They have a big showing at annual Concorso Italiano in Monterey. Some of the Panteras there are just incredible.

I was going to say the same thing...

There was a blue one with polished everything, (trans, axles, everthing) that was just unreal. I talked to that guy for at least half an hour, he was a big fan of 914-6's as well.

Ferg.

Posted by: tyler Jul 22 2005, 12:41 PM

914 V8 all the way (which I have now). I bought a new Pantera in 74 for $10k and had it for 6 years. Granted it looks and sounds absolutely great but nothing could be more uncomfortable driving any kind of distance - I drove from LA to Vegas and couldn't move when I got out (and I was only 30 then) since there's no position change once you're in place- it has nothing off the line, build for high speed (geared high)- I got the speedometer up to 140 on the way to Vegas and you'd think you were doing 60, smooth and quiet, except for the telephone poles blurring by - it's made to "drive"; high speed on windy roads so if that's what yu want, that's it. I'd rather get between the lights faster. I've always been surprised that they're not worth more money these days. I suggest you check around real good for the prices since I haven't seen them really selling for high prices.

Posted by: scruz914 Jul 22 2005, 01:02 PM

Pantera!

Screw the driving position and comfort. I would find out why it is not running though. I am not so sure that the engine would be "cheap" to rebuild.

What would be uncomforatble is pushing it to a local hang out just to sit in it and have the women look at your crotch.

Sounds like if it was parked in running condition it is nothing more than battery and fluids. You might want to put in a good battery and make sure all of the electircal stuff works. Rodents may have been nibbling away.

Once you are tired of it sell at a profit and buy several 914s!

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 22 2005, 01:07 PM

Pantera can hold the hp and tq much better than the 914 can. In stock condition.

Besides, its just cool!!!

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 22 2005, 01:08 PM

IIRC, the engine is just a FORD(351 IIRC)... not that expensive to rebuild...

Posted by: Eddie Williams Jul 22 2005, 01:11 PM

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 22 2005, 12:05 PM)
I'd give my left nut for a pantera, how's that for value!

Pretty good.... unless your Lance Armstrong!!

Posted by: Dr. Roger Jul 22 2005, 02:02 PM

I've driven and joy-ridden a Pantera. Got busted in Placervile Safeway parking lot doing doughnuts in it.... Bachelor party. Long story. LOL

I'm 6'2" and it was a tight fit... My penis received a default extension of 4 more inches. The result was lots of attention.

If I took $25,000 and placed it squarely in one bad ass teen, I'd have a grande verga and I'd stomp almost everything on the road. Quick and fast!

The 351C motor isn't all that great. All my Chevelle's could stomp them.

Posted by: BMartin914 Jul 22 2005, 02:06 PM

The one that doesn't cost 30K

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 22 2005, 02:07 PM

QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Jul 22 2005, 03:02 PM)
I've driven and joy-ridden a Pantera. Got busted in Placervile Safeway parking lot doing doughnuts in it.... Bachelor party. Long story. LOL

I'm 6'2" and it was a tight fit... My penis received a default extension of 4 more inches. The result was lots of attention.

If I took $25,000 and placed it squarely in one bad ass teen, I'd have a grande verga and I'd stomp almost everything on the road. Quick and fast!

The 351C motor isn't all that great. All my Chevelle's could stomp them.

351 W was different and could be bored out to a 400 IIRC

Posted by: sanman Jul 22 2005, 03:02 PM

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 22 2005, 10:05 AM)
I'd give my left nut for a pantera, how's that for value!

not too good, your left one is only worth a single rusted pantera windshield wiper blade screw

Posted by: airsix Jul 22 2005, 03:04 PM

The 351 in the Pantera is the Cleavland, not the Windsor. Windsors are cheaper becuase there are more of them, but the Cleavland has better heads for a hi-po motor.

-Ben M.

Posted by: redshift Jul 22 2005, 03:07 PM

QUOTE (tyler @ Jul 22 2005, 02:41 PM)
914 V8 all the way (which I have now). I bought a new Pantera in 74 for $10k and had it for 6 years. Granted it looks and sounds absolutely great but nothing could be more uncomfortable driving any kind of distance - I drove from LA to Vegas and couldn't move when I got out (and I was only 30 then) since there's no position change once you're in place- it has nothing off the line, build for high speed (geared high)-

I had a '72 with all the upgrades done for a few weeks, when I was B/S/T Ford stuff. It still ran hot, was hot, and loud, inside only.

Here, let me illustrate the ergonomics, by showing you the test body they used to design it:

Attached image(s)

Posted by: Dr. Roger Jul 22 2005, 03:07 PM

Thank you Ben, I was just going to say that. =-)))

FYI, The "magic" happens in the heads......

Posted by: bondo Jul 22 2005, 03:11 PM

The windsor is a small block, the cleavland is a big block. A windsor with modern heads might be pretty nice, being the same displacement but lighter.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 22 2005, 03:19 PM

QUOTE (bondo @ Jul 22 2005, 04:11 PM)
The windsor is a small block, the cleavland is a big block. A windsor with modern heads might be pretty nice, being the same displacement but lighter.

I've seen plenty of warmed up windsors and they can put out some power.

maybe it would be "wrong" to change the engine in a pantera, but I don't see a problem with it if you want more power

Posted by: lapuwali Jul 22 2005, 03:20 PM

There is or was a Pantera only shop in Mountain View when I lived down there. The owner said the two biggest problems with them were they overheated very easily, and even when the engine wasn't overheating, the driver often was. The gearboxes were/are quite dear, and hard to get parts for, at least in the US.

I've long suspected they're the kind of car that's wonderful to own, and terrible to drive. The Italians are masters at these kinds of cars.

No vote on the which way to go question.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 22 2005, 03:24 PM

if nothing else, you can buy the car, and if you don't like it once it's running, you can sell it and make enough profit to buy a fleet of 914s: a /4, /6, & v8...

Posted by: LongARM Jul 22 2005, 03:26 PM

Pantrera for sure....
check out the engine area in this 74..

Attached image(s)

Posted by: phantom914 Jul 22 2005, 03:29 PM

QUOTE (LongARM @ Jul 22 2005, 01:26 PM)
Pantrera for sure....
check out the engine area in this 74..

Interesting. The CV joints look like U-Joints.

Andrew

Posted by: redshift Jul 22 2005, 03:31 PM

Is it ok if we use this thread to roast Panteras? Just for fun?

They are neat, it's fun to walk out of Waffle House, and crank one up... but the ape/man ergonomics deserve nothing less than the best.

I have a series of pictures, if anyone is interested.

Yes, no CVs.

M

Posted by: phantom914 Jul 22 2005, 03:35 PM

QUOTE (redshift @ Jul 22 2005, 01:31 PM)
Is it ok if we use this thread to roast Panteras? Just for fun?

They are neat, it's fun to walk out of Waffle House, and crank one up... but the ape/man ergonomics deserve nothing less than the best.

I have a series of pictures, if anyone is interested.

Yes, no CVs.

M

And you can't fit your GF (Goat "Friend") in it.

Andrew

Posted by: neo914-6 Jul 22 2005, 03:42 PM

Pantera rant: A well known automotive designer / instructor at ACCD shook his head when I listed it as one of the car's I'd like to own. Something about bad a-pillar shape.

Man, I'll bet the Pantera club gets a hold of this thread and starts a flame war.

Posted by: Headrage Jul 22 2005, 03:45 PM

Will the tranny fit in a teener?

Posted by: redshift Jul 22 2005, 03:46 PM

I'll hold my pictures 'til they get here!

Oh, and just to get it lost, and burried upthread, by the time this thing is 34 pages: I like Panteras.

-warface-

Yes, Allan.

M

Posted by: Headrage Jul 22 2005, 03:49 PM

Hmmm?

Attached image(s)

Posted by: bondo Jul 22 2005, 03:50 PM

QUOTE (phantom914 @ Jul 22 2005, 02:29 PM)

QUOTE (LongARM @ Jul 22 2005, 01:26 PM)
Pantrera for sure....
check out the engine area in this 74..

Interesting. The CV joints look like U-Joints.

Andrew

I *think* the way they do it is u-joints at each end of the shaft, but the shaft is actually a splined shaft inside a splined tube. One joint is attached to the shaft, the other to the tube. This allows the length change needed for suspension travel. I don't know the advantages/disadvantages of it vs. CV joints.

Posted by: redshift Jul 22 2005, 03:51 PM

QUOTE (Headrage @ Jul 22 2005, 05:49 PM)
Hmmm?

YES ALLAN!

M

Posted by: bondo Jul 22 2005, 03:52 PM

QUOTE (Headrage @ Jul 22 2005, 02:45 PM)
Will the tranny fit in a teener?

Yup, Chris Julian's V8 has one. Not the cheapest route by far.

Posted by: Headrage Jul 22 2005, 03:54 PM

QUOTE (redshift @ Jul 22 2005, 02:51 PM)

QUOTE (Headrage @ Jul 22 2005, 05:49 PM)
Hmmm?

YES ALLAN!

M

$6300.00

Posted by: redshift Jul 22 2005, 04:29 PM

I think I saw it somwhere that Bruce sent me a couple weeks ago.. not rebuilt, out for a 6 speed upgrade? 42k or some such?

Not a bad deal, not the best, but not bad. I have seen similar, unpolished ones for.. around half that.. but out of salvage, or just sitting.. so.. you know how that goes.

M

Posted by: neo914-6 Jul 22 2005, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (redshift @ Jul 22 2005, 02:29 PM)
I think I saw it somwhere that Bruce sent me a couple weeks ago.. not rebuilt, out for a 6 speed upgrade? 42k or some such?

Not a bad deal, not the best, but not bad. I have seen similar, unpolished ones for.. around half that.. but out of salvage, or just sitting.. so.. you know how that goes.

M

RBT:
New ZF 5-speed is $8800.00
Rebuilds start at $1200.00
New 6-speed is $15,000

Posted by: redshift Jul 22 2005, 04:54 PM

Yeah, new is not expensive, or cheap, depending on how you look at it.

Most important thing is like all auto related thingys, service history, and updates.

M

Posted by: jd74914 Jul 22 2005, 06:39 PM

Panteras are nice. A friend of mine's uncle took me for a ride and lit up his tires at 80. I like

Posted by: LS6/914 Jul 22 2005, 09:14 PM

Worked late 70s early 80s at a shop that serviced Panteras. The 351 C is bullet proof and is considered a small block. The heads have huge flow potential. Check the front corner of the head at the valve cover for a cast "4" or four dots. designating the larger valve heads. The half shafts use u-joints and are readily available. To check timing or service the water pump or belts requires removing the passenger seat and dissassembling the firewall. The Pantera was prone to A/C failures, overheating, rust, no headroom..... however a ape could get a date in this car. When alls said and done Iam still a freak for a 914 with a stout V8.

Posted by: 9144guy Jul 22 2005, 09:24 PM

i worked on this 73' last month

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Posted by: 9144guy Jul 22 2005, 09:28 PM

guess that pic. was cut short , another

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