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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ PMO for sale
Posted by: Krieger May 31 2021, 01:53 PM
Posted by: SKL1 May 31 2021, 01:59 PM
Yeah, saw that. Hopefully it stays alive- would think there is a good sustainable customer base, at least for a while!
I'm old enough to remember when it was just Porsche Mail Order...
Posted by: Superhawk996 May 31 2021, 03:35 PM
There is so much in that ad if you know how to read between the lines. Makes me really sad.
Not only because I really want a set of PMO ITB's running EFI on my /6 conversion or because I've always considered a set of PMO carbs to be a solid fall back plan if I couldn't couldn't come up with the cash for ITB EFI, or if I can't find a nice set of vintage carbs. If I recall properly, Performance Oriented was also up for sale recently.
Looks like the old time carb business just isn't what it used to be.
So many of these job shops are closing up and/or trasfering ownership. Been watching it for years in Detroit. Sad to see it hitting the Porche markets too!
Posted by: IronHillRestorations Jun 1 2021, 05:37 AM
Another factor is Richard Parr is in his mid 70’s and probably wants to retire. Add typical staffing problems, and it’s not a mystery
Posted by: Mark Henry Jun 1 2021, 06:58 AM
Another factor is Richard Parr is in his mid 70’s and probably wants to retire. Add typical staffing problems, and it’s not a mystery
It's likely a good deal for the right person, problem is finding that right person.
It is a small market, IIRC up to 1989 Porsche only made as many 911's as the 914 was made in 6-7 years. Any company serious in buying PMO would need several other product lines on the go to make ends meet.
If it was a bigger market the 3 barrel Weber's would have China knock off's by now.
Posted by: Superhawk996 Jun 1 2021, 07:23 AM
If it was a bigger market the 3 barrel Weber's would have China knock off's by now.
Posted by: bdstone914 Jun 1 2021, 07:26 AM
Another factor is Richard Parr is in his mid 70’s and probably wants to retire. Add typical staffing problems, and it’s not a mystery
It's likely a good deal for the right person, problem is finding that right person.
It is a small market, IIRC up to 1989 Porsche only made as many 911's as the 914 was made in 6-7 years. Any company serious in buying PMO would need several other product lines on the go to make ends meet.
If it was a bigger market the 3 barrel Weber's would have China knock off's by now.
Stats i have indicate about 280,000 911' s made up to 1989. Many of those were fuel injected and not likely to get switched to carbs. I did sell several sets of his carbs when i worked for Pelican. I agree it is a small market. Also takes a lot of knowledge of the right carb setup for each different engine build.
I hope Dansk does not buy it and screw it up.
Posted by: Superhawk996 Jun 1 2021, 07:47 AM
I hope Dansk does not buy it and screw it up.
Nothing personal against Dansk. Would apply to any buyer. It just isn't simple to pick up CNC machines, move them to a new location, and then to duplicate the production process that existed at PMO's facility. To do that while maintaining same or better quality is even harder.
Looking at the selling price, I'd say that they aren't pulling in huge income on PMO's. Far less than I would have imagined. But after seeing the ad, and doing some napkin math, I'm a bit worried they won't find a buyer. . . or at least one willing to maintain PMO's quality.
Posted by: Steve Jun 1 2021, 08:05 AM
I've been following the ITB market. Only the purists would want PMO ITB's, because they look like carbs. Lots of other ITB options for a lot less money. Probably another reason for him to get out of the market.
Posted by: Superhawk996 Jun 1 2021, 08:09 AM
Only the purists would want PMO ITB's, because they look like carbs.
That is what I love about their ITB's.
Posted by: maf914 Jun 1 2021, 08:53 AM
I'm old enough to remember when it was just Porsche Mail Order...
Interesting little fact. I have wondered what PMO stood for. Thanks, SKL1.
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jun 1 2021, 09:16 AM
I'm old enough to remember when it was just Porsche Mail Order...
Interesting little fact. I have wondered what PMO stood for. Thanks, SKL1.
...and Richard (PMO), Robert Wood (spun into Wheel Enhancement), Neal Rayburn (NR Accessories) all started in their garages. They were good forward-thinking visionaries in the beginning of the Porsche aftermarket; I delivered + picked up at all of their garages once upon a time
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jun 1 2021, 10:45 AM
I've been following the ITB market. Only the purists would want PMO ITB's, because they look like carbs. Lots of other ITB options for a lot less money. Probably another reason for him to get out of the market.
Sad to see this, but hopeful one of the good businesses in the game will buy PMO's carb/ITB equipment & rights as I am not sure there is anything else at that level of quality.
There are other ITBs out there, but is there any other game in town if you want to maintain period looks and compatibility with a factory airbox? The latter is a big one for me.
...and Richard (PMO), Robert Wood (spun into Wheel Enhancement), Neal Rayburn (NR Accessories) on L.A.s West side, started in their garages. All very forward thinking visionaries in the beginning of Porsche aftermarket; I delivered + picked up at all of their homes once upon a time
Yep yep. There were a lot of visionaries from the 1970s through the 1990s. Was always amazed by the number of Porsche-focused businesses and suppliers who were advertisers when I worked at Excellence, and how they sailed through various downturns—or at least, the first parts of them.
Do feel like we're seeing a shift in the Porsche market over the last 10-20 years, where fewer people own more cars, more people restore cars that would have been let go once upon a time, and more cars sit. And the generation that started so many of these wonderful businesses and shops, supplying all sorts of great services and products, are looking to retire (or already have). All of these things cut various ways…
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jun 1 2021, 11:10 AM
Performance Products founder, the late Dick Lovell @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 was a genius.
He put his first L.A.retail (1,500 sq.ft.) location right accross the street from Westwood P+A (today Bev Hills Porsche) at Veteran and Santa Monica Blvd. At one time, they grew to 10,000 sq. ft. in Van Nuys.
Their mail order biz was huge . PP has had many owners; today I believe they are HQ on the east coast.
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jun 1 2021, 11:58 AM
Performance Products founder, the late Dick Lovell @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 was a genius.
He put his first L.A.retail (1,500 sq.ft.) location right accross the street from Westwood P+A (today Bev Hills Porsche) at Veteran and Santa Monica Blvd. At one time, they grew to 10,000 sq. ft. in Van Nuys.
Their mail order biz was huge . PP has had many owners; today I believe they are HQ on the east coast.
Automotion was another. Their catalogs were like crack cocaine for a teenage me—fueling at least as many fantasies as VW&Porsche and Excellence ever did. Instagram, Facebook, company websites, and ads on the 'net don't even come close to those catalogs when it comes to daydreaming—though this forum sure does…
And yet, there's still something about print—but of course I would say that.
Posted by: Steve Jun 1 2021, 12:02 PM
Performance Products founder, the late Dick Lovell @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 was a genius.
He put his first L.A.retail (1,500 sq.ft.) location right accross the street from Westwood P+A (today Bev Hills Porsche) at Veteran and Santa Monica Blvd. At one time, they grew to 10,000 sq. ft. in Van Nuys.
Their mail order biz was huge . PP has had many owners; today I believe they are HQ on the east coast.
Sad but Performance Products bought Automotion, then Performance Products was sold off to Ecklers in Florida, which then sold it off to Rose Passion in France. The automotion.com web page now points to rose passion. I don't think any of the conversion parts / Weltmeister are still being made.
Posted by: Ansbacher Jun 1 2021, 12:39 PM
Who in their right mind would buy a carburetor company in an age when the green crazies are trying to outlaw anything and everything related to fossil-fueled internal combustion? Probably better off buying a buggy whip factory. Guess we have to face up to the fact that we are the last generation that will ever enjoy and maintain classic cars.
Ansbacher
Posted by: arbitrary Jun 1 2021, 02:20 PM
I've been following the ITB market. Only the purists would want PMO ITB's, because they look like carbs. Lots of other ITB options for a lot less money. Probably another reason for him to get out of the market.
Going OT but curious to hear your thoughts.
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jun 1 2021, 02:22 PM
^ Don't believe everything you read. 
Even if various states' plans (my home state included) manage to actually ban the sale of ICE by 2035, that's 14 years out and the predictions that feel right suggest another 15 years or so before the gas fleet phases to the point that gasoline availability begins to become an issue. So that's 29 years, with some remnants from there?
And a lot has to happen between now and then. My gut take? As long as their are roads and streets for the people reading this forum post in 2021, there will be places and ways to drive these cars. The smart businesses will find ways to scale and meet their needs. Carbs and MFI will be part of that picture, as will tires, spare parts, consumables, etc, and the addressable market will surely exceed the buggy/whip industry…
Posted by: Steve Jun 1 2021, 03:35 PM
I've been following the ITB market. Only the purists would want PMO ITB's, because they look like carbs. Lots of other ITB options for a lot less money. Probably another reason for him to get out of the market.
Going OT but curious to hear your thoughts.
I'm a backyard mechanic with no actual ITB experience. Just reading threads on Pelican's 911 technical forum...
Besides Rasant and Clewitt, I see a lot of people buying the X-Factory stuff on the Pelican 911 technical forum. Otherwise that's the limit of my research so far.
https://www.x-faktory.com/store/c6/EFI.html
https://www.x-faktory.com/uploads/6/3/9/3/6...efi_systems.pdf
I noticed that X-Factory no longer lists the PMO ITB's. They probably still support them, but with PMO up for sale, maybe he doesn't want to promote them anymore.
Posted by: mepstein Jun 1 2021, 03:47 PM
I heard some behind the scenes info -second hand but pretty reliable. PMO has offered the business for $600k for a couple years now. One issue is that Weber is buying intakes and other parts and PMO can’t get the parts needed to sell a complete kit. Some of the product needs updating but hasn’t happened in a long time. PMO was an alternative when Weber’s were hard to get but now that Weber is back in production they have fell by the wayside.
Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Jun 1 2021, 04:09 PM
Who in their right mind would buy a carburetor company in an age when the green crazies are trying to outlaw anything and everything related to fossil-fueled internal combustion? Probably better off buying a buggy whip factory. Guess we have to face up to the fact that we are the last generation that will ever enjoy and maintain classic cars.
Ansbacher
When it comes to polluting and promoting climate change genuine classic cars are not even a blip on the radar. As a true Liberal Car Guy I would love to see a future where electric cars were 90% of the cars on the highway and old fashioned leaded gas was available (here and there) if you had a properly licensed classic car and were willing to pay the $10 per gallon or so that it would cost. Hope this isn't too "political".
Posted by: Front yard mechanic Jun 1 2021, 05:31 PM
Who in their right mind would buy a carburetor company in an age when the green crazies are trying to outlaw anything and everything related to fossil-fueled internal combustion? Probably better off buying a buggy whip factory. Guess we have to face up to the fact that we are the last generation that will ever enjoy and maintain classic cars.
Ansbacher
When it comes to polluting and promoting climate change genuine classic cars are not even a blip on the radar. As a true Liberal Car Guy I would love to see a future where electric cars were 90% of the cars on the highway and old fashioned leaded gas was available (here and there) if you had a properly licensed classic car and were willing to pay the $10 per gallon or so that it would cost. Hope this isn't too "political".
Yup
Posted by: wonkipop Jun 1 2021, 08:11 PM
Who in their right mind would buy a carburetor company in an age when the green crazies are trying to outlaw anything and everything related to fossil-fueled internal combustion? Probably better off buying a buggy whip factory. Guess we have to face up to the fact that we are the last generation that will ever enjoy and maintain classic cars.
Ansbacher
When it comes to polluting and promoting climate change genuine classic cars are not even a blip on the radar. As a true Liberal Car Guy I would love to see a future where electric cars were 90% of the cars on the highway and old fashioned leaded gas was available (here and there) if you had a properly licensed classic car and were willing to pay the $10 per gallon or so that it would cost. Hope this isn't too "political".
Yup
affirmative.
fuel vehicles as recreational anachronisms will be tolerated under C02 emission offsets which you pay for.
as to a young generation, they unfortunately never accessed a fleet of cheap starter vehicles that were able to be maintained shade tree style. for the last 25 years minimum the cars in that category had already become somewhat impenetrable mechanically. though it has bred a smaller generational group of speed enthusiasts who have mastered the black arts of electronics and advanced tuning. they are out there but its retracted back into the "hot rodder" set.
Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jun 1 2021, 09:21 PM
These ads from PMO have been popping up for years, he routinely hopes to sell it.
Posted by: SKL1 Jun 1 2021, 09:51 PM
Boy this is a trip down memory lane...
and no one mentioned PB Tweeks???? I used to love to get their catalog
(and I grew up on the JC Whitney catalog... I know that dates me!!)
Posted by: pfreiburger Jun 3 2021, 09:40 PM
I heard some behind the scenes info -second hand but pretty reliable. PMO has offered the business for $600k for a couple years now. One issue is that Weber is buying intakes and other parts and PMO can’t get the parts needed to sell a complete kit. Some of the product needs updating but hasn’t happened in a long time. PMO was an alternative when Weber’s were hard to get but now that Weber is back in production they have fell by the wayside.
So is the 3 barrel IDA being produced? If so, who is selling them? Thanks.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jun 4 2021, 12:20 PM
I heard some behind the scenes info -second hand but pretty reliable. PMO has offered the business for $600k for a couple years now. One issue is that Weber is buying intakes and other parts and PMO can’t get the parts needed to sell a complete kit. Some of the product needs updating but hasn’t happened in a long time. PMO was an alternative when Weber’s were hard to get but now that Weber is back in production they have fell by the wayside.
So is the 3 barrel IDA being produced? If so, who is selling them? Thanks.
https://www.piercemanifolds.com/category_s/496.htm
New IDA 40 $4085 /pr, carbs only
New IDA 46 $3600 /pr which must be a typo, I think that's each so $7200/pr, carbs only
Posted by: Front yard mechanic Jun 4 2021, 03:13 PM
I'm thinking about buying PMO I just need 599 more partners 
Posted by: BENBRO02 Jun 4 2021, 05:11 PM
I'm thinking about buying PMO I just need 599 more partners
Just buy a dozen sets of ITBs and store them until PMO goes under. They will probably be a better investment than Tesla stock?
Posted by: mepstein Jun 4 2021, 06:27 PM
Our engine builder doesn’t like the PMO itb’s because he said the injector is too far away for a street car but fine for a race car. They look pretty but aren’t the “go to” for everyone.
Posted by: JeffBowlsby Jun 4 2021, 09:38 PM
I think ICE engines and support for them will be around for a loooong time. classic car enthusiasts still have another couple generations to go at least.
One can still buy things like vacuum tubes, Victrola parts, historic house hardware, watch and clock parts and so on. Our cars won’t be destined for the museums on a large scale for decades.
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jun 4 2021, 09:39 PM
Our engine builder doesn’t like the PMO itb’s because he said the injector is too far away for a street car but fine for a race car. They look pretty but aren’t the “go to” for everyone.
^ Great feedback to get.
Do you know if any of the other options allow for the use of a factory airbox?
Posted by: pfreiburger Jun 4 2021, 09:58 PM
I had a good conversation with Richard Parr today – he is a very nice guy. As noted above the business has been for sale for quite a while, but finding a buyer that fits has been very difficult. The good news is that PMO is not going away any time soon. There were some supplier issues in the last year, but they have been handled and parts are flowing again, including manifolds. They have parts for 60 sets of carburetors on hand now, with plans for another run of 100. So, if PMO’s are on your shopping list, you should be good to go.
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