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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ I'm never going to finish
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 22 2005, 08:11 PM
I mated the tranny and the engine back tonight... mind you I only seperated them like 3 weeks ago, when they were seperated, everything fit fine...
now, 1 out of the 2 studs on the bottom seems too short 
WTF?!
the tranny seems flush with the engine, but the stud is only BARELY poking through the hole, not out far enough to even get a bolt on(even with no washer)! a washer BARELY fits...
here's a pic... what the hell?!
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Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 22 2005, 08:11 PM
one more:
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Posted by: Headrage Jul 22 2005, 08:13 PM
Show a pic where the tranny and engine meet.
Posted by: spare time toys Jul 22 2005, 08:14 PM
Something holding the trans back?
Posted by: SirAndy Jul 22 2005, 08:14 PM
| QUOTE (Headrage @ Jul 22 2005, 07:13 PM) |
| Show a pic where the tranny and engine meet. |
tranny hasn't seated right ...
AndyPS: get some brake cleaner and clean all the crud off the tranny and engine!!!
Posted by: bondo Jul 22 2005, 08:15 PM
It's your avatar that's causing the trouble. 
Posted by: echocanyons Jul 22 2005, 08:27 PM
Did you take off the clutch?
If so did you align it when putting it back together?
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 22 2005, 08:30 PM
obviously something is holding the trans up....
Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 22 2005, 10:43 PM
christ. that fuckers filthy.
k
Posted by: redshift Jul 22 2005, 10:45 PM
I'll bet you dirty grease has hardened up in'nair.
M
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 07:26 AM
yes, the tranny is a dirty mother fucker... I've tried engine brite, simple green, abd B-12 and it's just not coming off well... I'll attack again today with some brake cleaner, power purple, and ??? it sat behind a tired 1.7 with a bad seal before I got it. the engine is clean, but the tranny is so dirty, it's guilty by association.
I did take the clutch off but I did use the alignment tool
I'll take more pics but the thing that throws me off is this... the other 3 bolts are RIGHT... they had plenty of thread, even the other stud at the bottom...
Posted by: jr91472 Jul 23 2005, 09:24 AM
| QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 23 2005, 05:26 AM) |
| I'll attack again today with some brake cleaner, power purple, and ??? |
a wire brush and a paint scraper
Posted by: joeav8tor Jul 23 2005, 09:53 AM
hi wayne,
place a shitload of newspaper underneath your tranny and spray the shit out of it with brake cleaner....I went through 20 cans of the stuff (should have bought it by the case) I also used a tooth brush and other small vinyl brushes to get the 32 years of gunk off of the motor and tranny...it worked great...wear a mask and some goggles, that crap is toxic!
good luck
Joe 
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 23 2005, 09:56 AM
all the bolts are the same length????
Posted by: Headrage Jul 23 2005, 10:09 AM
Why not just soak it with simple green and take it to a pressure wash place? That's what I did with mine and it worked great...
Just make sure you plug the vent, drain and refill with your lube of choice...
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 10:36 AM
I got it MUCH cleaner...
the trick is in the combo... I sprayed foamy engine brite, let that set a sec, followed by power purple, folloed by brake cleaner... it is 100 times better, still not perfect though... good enough for me though....
that one stud is STILL being a PITA... the other stud will allow the bolt on about 1/2 way... the top ones are fine.
pics follow
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Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 10:37 AM
looks FLUSH!
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Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 10:38 AM
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Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 10:39 AM
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Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 10:40 AM
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Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 10:41 AM
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Posted by: SpecialK Jul 23 2005, 10:56 AM
Something VERY strange going on here. I went out and check the same area on my '73, and I have a bolt there in lieu of a stud. I'm guessing that a stud there might interfere with the movement of the clutch release arm.
Posted by: Lou W Jul 23 2005, 11:05 AM
I took a picture of mine for reference, I hope this helps. I have a stud on mine, with a bolt on the next one up.
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Posted by: James Adams Jul 23 2005, 11:10 AM
Was this engine attached to a bug trans? I think you got it from (can't remember his name right now) who had it in a bug. In that case it would have needed shorter studs and you need to put in longer ones now.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 11:20 AM
| QUOTE (James Adams @ Jul 23 2005, 12:10 PM) |
| Was this engine attached to a bug trans? I think you got it from (can't remember his name right now) who had it in a bug. In that case it would have needed shorter studs and you need to put in longer ones now. |
no, this engine was never in a bug... Tom Perso had his 2270 in a bug, not this one...
THIS transmission was mated to THIS engine, only 3-4 weeks ago, the stud was long enough then... why not now?!
special K, there SHOULD be a stud there... but pulling it and putting a bolt in is starting to sound good...
I have a old 1.8 that was in this car before... I'll try and measure the stud on it..
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 11:22 AM
JESUS Lou, you should delete that pic before 10 people tell you to clean it 
Posted by: SpecialK Jul 23 2005, 12:36 PM
Just curious...was the stud loose in the block when you removed it, and maybe it got threaded into the block farther by someone? I don't really see how it could shorten all by itself.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 12:43 PM
| QUOTE (Special_K @ Jul 23 2005, 01:36 PM) |
| Just curious...was the stud loose in the block when you removed it, and maybe it got threaded into the block farther by someone? I don't really see how it could shorten all by itself. |
I *think* the stud is pressed...
no, I don't believe it has shortened by itself(it would be a cool trick though)
I don't know WHAT's going on though! I don't understand!
this is why it feels like I'm never going to get this done in time for MUSR... a job like mating the tranny should take 10 minutes, instead it's been a day! and it's still not done...
if someone wants to come over for a closer inspection, LMK! I'm at a loss!
Posted by: James Adams Jul 23 2005, 12:52 PM
| QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 23 2005, 01:43 PM) |
| I *think* the stud is pressed... |
No, they are screwed in, just pull the tranny and unscrew it a little.
Posted by: Headrage Jul 23 2005, 12:52 PM
If everything is installed correctly, i.e., flywheel, pressure plate, clutch and throw-out bearing and the tranny mates up to the motor okay if it was me I would just find a longer stud and give it a shot.
Posted by: jr91472 Jul 23 2005, 12:57 PM
That is some crazy shit Wayne...
Have you fully tighten the other three? Is there enough thread exposed to get the nut started? If so, maybe it will snug the rest of the way on. IIRC, that stud is only barely supposed to extend through, otherwise it will interfere with the TO bearing fork.
Otherwise, I would take it back apart and inspect the stud further. Despite how it looks, something is keeping the tranny from mounting completely on the engine.
good luck and hang in there....
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 01:06 PM
i guess I'll extend the stud and see what happens... maybe when I loosened the tranny it screwed into the case more?!
the only bolt I didn't put on was the one that holds the starter too... I didn't want to put the starter on, with something obviously wrong...
I thought the other 2 bolts would tighten up and leave enough to get this stud stared... but I tore the thread out of 1 bolt trying to get it started...
if the stud won't extend enough, I'll pull the stud and put a longer stud or bolt there...
thanks guys... I'll let you know tommorrow... I have to go to a dinner tonight for my wife's work, and so, it will be tomorrow before I can get out there again...
Posted by: redshift Jul 23 2005, 01:16 PM
Lou, did you find that transaxle in a bat cave?
M
Posted by: SpecialK Jul 23 2005, 02:12 PM
If you're going to extract the stud a bit for nut installation, I think I'd take it all of the way out, and throw a little green lock-tite on the threads going into the block, as well as the nut side. Wouldn't be fun laying on a hot Texas road trying to re-tighten those bolts/nuts.
Posted by: Tom Perso Jul 23 2005, 03:04 PM
Wayne,
That's weird, those studs are 914 studs. I had the shorter ones on my 2270 and ran into that problem, so I got another set.
Let me know if I can do anything to help.
Tom
Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 23 2005, 03:50 PM
Wayne,
That stud is supposed to just barely stick through the nut. If it's too long, the clutch arm will hit it. Loosen the existing stud up until it will just barely stick through the nut when everything is tite.
Make sure that you put some locktite on the stud before you button everything up.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 03:54 PM
red locktite or green? should all of the nuts and bolts have loctite?
yea tom, this IS weird! like I said I didn't change anything with these studs, and now this one seems short... actually both bottom ones seem a little short, but the opposite side will work...
Posted by: kwales Jul 23 2005, 04:04 PM
Iffin you use green, you are never, ever, going to be able to remove it.
Used some of that green stuff to fill gaps on some printer parts. Wasn't right so we soaked it in the nastiest board cleaner (MEK?)we had for 24 hours. It still took a 5 lb sledge and viloent pounding for 15 minuutes to push a pin from a hole with .050 gap filled with "green".
Tough stuff and permanant.
Ken
Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 23 2005, 04:06 PM
Figure out how long the stud needs to be. Then remove the stud and put just a dab of red on the threads and put it back in the engine case.
Assemble your engine/trans combo. 
And stop worrying so much!!!
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 04:10 PM
| QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Jul 23 2005, 05:06 PM) |
| Figure out how long the stud needs to be. Then remove the stud and put just a dab of red on the threads and put it back in the engine case. Assemble your engine/trans combo. And stop worrying so much!!! |
thing hasn't been on the road in 2 years, and it looks like granbury will be the first trip in that time... IF it's ready... and right now, that's a big IF...
I AM nervous about it, but anxious and frustrated too... like I said, some of these 10 minute jobs have eaten whole days... it sux.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 23 2005, 04:14 PM
If you can make it to my house, we can run to Grandbury together. That way if something goes wrong on the way here we can fix it before we leave for Grandbury.
Hey.. mine has not been on the road in 5 years.
Anyone else who is going to the MUSR... how about a caravan on Thursday???
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 23 2005, 04:16 PM
cool! I'll do that! I was going to suggest something similar, since JR, and others are already so close to me... we can have a plano caravan to Hurst and then a DFW caravan to Granbury!
Posted by: Headrage Jul 23 2005, 05:33 PM
Wayne,
Like Clay said, don't sweat it too much, you'll get frustrated and things will seem to go wrong at every corner. Hell, I was still putting my car back together the same day I was heading out to the WCC.
It'll all work.
Posted by: SpecialK Jul 23 2005, 07:11 PM
| QUOTE (Headrage @ Jul 23 2005, 05:33 PM) |
| Wayne, Like Clay said, don't sweat it too much... |
Probably impossible if the weather is anything like it is here....
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 24 2005, 07:46 AM
| QUOTE (Buzzard1 @ Jul 23 2005, 08:11 PM) | ||
Probably impossible if the weather is anything like it is here.... |
ain't that the truth! early morning and late afternoon/night is the ONLY way to go...
it's 72% humidity today already yesterday we had a little bit of a breeze... but of course, it was hitting the BACK of by garage so I wasn't reaping that benefit!
I'll work on this issue this afternoon and keep ya'll informed
thanks!!
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 24 2005, 06:09 PM
I compared my stud length on this engine to the core engine in the corner... it was about 1/2" shorter...
so, I pulled the core's stud, and put it in the other engine, and Viola!
worked like a champ!
I put the permatex red loctite on the stud, going into the case
now, should I put the loctite on the bolt side of the stud too? I know it's a new clutch, but I MAY want to change it sometime... will I still be able to take the tranny off if needed?
thanks guys!
Posted by: jr91472 Jul 24 2005, 06:36 PM
| QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 24 2005, 04:09 PM) |
| now, should I put the loctite on the bolt side of the stud too? I know it's a new clutch, but I MAY want to change it sometime... will I still be able to take the tranny off if needed? thanks guys! :beer1: |
I am thinking no. But don't listen to me, I have had to pull my tranny about 6 times in the last year. Number 7 is tonite in another attempt to solve my leaking rear main seal.
Besides, I don't think the torque values on those bolts are that high anyway.
later
JR
Posted by: spare time toys Jul 24 2005, 06:45 PM
Glad to hear that other stud worked. I would Loktight the nut end also. Red will not set up so tight you cant get it off. I put the Alpine in the Suburban tonight so I wont forget it Tuesday.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 24 2005, 06:47 PM
| QUOTE (jr91472 @ Jul 24 2005, 07:36 PM) |
| I am thinking no. But don't listen to me, I have had to pull my tranny about 6 times in the last year. Number 7 is tonite in another attempt to solve my leaking rear main seal. Besides, I don't think the torque values on those bolts are that high anyway. later JR |
I hope not, I didn't use a torque wrench, I just put 'em on like a german virgin: gud'n' tight
I can put the loctite on if needed, but I never did before... if fact I didn't put loctite on anything...
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 24 2005, 06:50 PM
| QUOTE (spare time toys @ Jul 24 2005, 07:45 PM) |
| Glad to hear that other stud worked. I would Loktight the nut end also. Red will not set up so tight you cant get it off. I put the Alpine in the Suburban tonight so I wont forget it Tuesday. |
SWEET! I'll be rollin' like Easy-E wit da alpine blastin'
I wasn't sure if this was the right stuff larry... it's not loctite brand, it's the permatex, and I dunno if their "red" is the same as loctite's "red"... it says it requires heat to remove... so I was leary
Posted by: jr91472 Jul 24 2005, 09:11 PM
| QUOTE (jr91472 @ Jul 24 2005, 04:36 PM) |
| I am thinking no. But don't listen to me, I have had to pull my tranny about 6 times in the last year. Number 7 is tonite in another attempt to solve my leaking rear main seal. later JR |
Ha!!!! I am a dumbass.....
Just got done pulling the tranny (1hr 30min....thankyou, thankyou).
After all my ranting about a leaky rear main seal, it turns out that it was the tranny seal for the input shaft......
I guess I need some smellier gear oil, cuz I failed the sniff test.....bad.
oh well.
Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 24 2005, 09:32 PM
| QUOTE (jr91472 @ Jul 24 2005, 10:11 PM) | ||
Ha!!!! I am a dumbass..... Just got done pulling the tranny (1hr 30min....thankyou, thankyou). After all my ranting about a leaky rear main seal, it turns out that it was the tranny seal for the input shaft...... I guess I need some smellier gear oil, cuz I failed the sniff test.....bad. oh well. |
one more reason to not use swepco... expensive shit for a leak... Posted by: Joseph Mills Jul 24 2005, 10:11 PM
| QUOTE (jr91472 @ Jul 24 2005, 09:11 PM) | ||
Ha!!!! I am a dumbass..... Just got done pulling the tranny (1hr 30min....thankyou, thankyou). After all my ranting about a leaky rear main seal, it turns out that it was the tranny seal for the input shaft...... I guess I need some smellier gear oil, cuz I failed the sniff test.....bad. oh well. |
That tranny seal can be tough. Use a piece of lead pipe a bit smaller than the outer edge of the face of the seal to gently and slowly tap it into place. Stop every few taps and observe it to verify it's moving evenly. Sometimes just before they are "seated" flush, they will tend to flange out on you. If that happens, discard it and try another one.
If your shaft is worn at the seal spot, you can unscrew the spring inside the seal, snip off a bit and twist it back together to produce a tighter grip.
We used some adhesive on the outer surface of my last seal. Doesn't seem to leak a bit. I forget what we used, but can look it up for you if you like. PM me.
Good luck with it and hope to see you at the MUSR7
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