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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Aluminum repairs

Posted by: turtleman Jul 22 2005, 09:26 PM

I was installing an exhaust stud into a heli-coiled cylinder and caused the aluminum to crack around the heli-coil. I was hoping there was a way to repair the aluminum and redrill and tap a new hole?

I came across the following web site and wondered if anyone has used this company's product with success?

http://www.aluminumrepair.com

I appreciate any feedback.

Also, if anyone has a heating system, or parts of one. they wish to sell. please let me know. (pre 1975, preferably 1974 1.8L)

THANKS

Posted by: SLITS Jul 22 2005, 09:31 PM

Rimco (West Coast) charged $60 to weld up, drill and retap the same problem on a head. Any good machine shop should be able to heliarc it up and do the operation.

What heater parts?

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 22 2005, 09:58 PM

QUOTE (SLITS @ Jul 22 2005, 08:31 PM)
Any good machine shop should be able to heliarc it up and do the operation.

happens all the time ...

Posted by: turtleman Jul 22 2005, 11:11 PM

Is it possible to fix this without removing the cylinder from the car?

That is what I like about the product from this company. It appears it might be possible.

However, I prefer not to be the guinea pig and be the first to test their product. I have no experience with welding to use as a reference point.

Posted by: bondo Jul 23 2005, 12:32 AM

Are you sure that's "new"? It looks alot like the standard aluminum brazing rods you can pick up at any state fair or gun show. I have some, they work ok, but you have to get the base metal VERY hot. They make most of the same claims as the "new technology product". Heck, how can they really continuously call themselves "new technology products" as if their products will never become old technology?

Posted by: bondo Jul 23 2005, 12:47 AM

Second question of the faq:

QUOTE
Will your product work on aluminum that has been anodized?
Yes, remember anodized aluminum is just a coating of another metal over the aluminum that has pours, our material penetrates those pours and then penetrates the aluminum.

They just lost all credibility in my eyes.

Posted by: turtleman Jul 24 2005, 03:56 PM

Bondo;

What makes you suspect of their credibility?

Just curious did you watch their film clip on their web site?

Posted by: Mueller Jul 24 2005, 04:24 PM

QUOTE (turtleman @ Jul 22 2005, 10:11 PM)
Is it possible to fix this without removing the cylinder from the car?
That is what I like about the product from this company. It appears it might be possible.

have you forgotten about that "little" thing called gravity??

it's going to be tough to fill up a hole upside down

depending on the size of the helicoil, you can put in an oversized helicoil....studs are available with a larger diameter thread on the one end...I think normal is 8mm x 8mm, and I think 8mm x 9mm or 8mm x 10mm studs can be found.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jul 24 2005, 06:38 PM

Take the head off and do it right. There are no short cuts that work.

Posted by: turtleman Jul 24 2005, 06:53 PM

The cylinder head had previously had a helicoil installed. Unfortunately whoever installed it had not aligned it properly and had modified the Heat Exchanger by enlarging the hole in one ear so the new stud would fit. I was attempting to install a correct size stud into the cylinder head (my studs are 8mmx9mm) when two sides around the stud hole in the case split.

I thought I could remove the helicoil insert and put a piece of metal on the bottom where you typically insert the stud to keep the New Technology product from falling, sort of like the clip where they use steel to form a part of an ear as shown in the NTP video on their web site. I had expected some of the product would spill out due to gravity.

I though it just might be possible to fill it from the one side which split out a good bit. While I realize gravity is not in my favor in this circumstance, I had hopped it might be possible by someone who had past experience with this product, to do the repair from the side if they used some technique similar to what I am proposing. It obviously would then have to be drilled and tapped.

In the NTP video, especially the part where they place a bolt into the new material, that repair is essentially exactly what I would do IF I removed the cylinder head and flipped it before commencing the repair. Obviously I would prefer not to have to remove the engine if at all possible to do the repair.

I had taken a photo but misplaced the sd memory card when I was rushing around yesterday. Sorry, that would have made things more easily understandable.

I almost began to remove the engine this morning and have a machine shop do the repair, but I chose to wait and see if anyone on this forum might have tried this new brazing rod and could 'chime in' as to whether the repair is possible while the engine is till in the car?

Posted by: turtleman Jul 24 2005, 06:56 PM

I had not read your post yet Chris, I was composing mine. After I posted it I saw yours. As I mention in my last post, your advice was the direction I thoght I was going to have to go eventually. Just was praying otherwise.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jul 24 2005, 08:28 PM

I have a good deal of experience with welding aluminum and with that "special" rod you are curious about. What you are interested in trying isn't worth even one attempt IMO.
What is required is disassembling the head completely, grinding away some of the material around the damage, preheating the head in an oven, TIG welding up the hole, redrilling and retapping the hole, while making sure it is properly aligned. It is a job I would only trust to an expert. I guess RIMCO in CA does this, and I know Len Hoffman of Hoffman Automotive Machine (see my sig for a link) does this.

Posted by: Jake Raby Jul 24 2005, 08:39 PM

Don't play with it....

Send the head to Len and have it repaired correctly.

I weld on heads quite a bit as well as all sorts of other Aluminum mods/repairs and I can tell you that the TIV cylinder head is very weird to weld. If the wrong welder gets a hold of it the repair will be porous and won't be worth a damn.

Posted by: Brett W Jul 24 2005, 09:04 PM

The T4 casting is a very "dirty"casting. The German casting technique from back in the day is not near what the new Japanese stuff is. I degreased, bead blasted, and cooked to 450 and there was still crap floating up in the puddle on the last T4 head I did. Yesterday when I was welding a honda manifold back together, I was amazed at how clean the casting was. After degreasing, and cleaning with a stainless brush I went to it and could weld that cast manifold as good as new aluminum sheet.

If you do not have the skills, I would send the head to Len as he should be familiar with the techniques to weld the T4. Do not use aluminum braze or solder, the head will be ruined for any repairs in the future.

Posted by: davep Jul 24 2005, 09:36 PM

QUOTE (turtleman @ Jul 24 2005, 01:56 PM)
Bondo;

What makes you suspect of their credibility?

When they say 'pours' instead of pores is one very good hint.
When they say anodizing is coating another metal onto the aluminum is another.
Either they know the know the technologies and the terms including the correct spelling of the terms, or they don't. In this case I'd say they don't. Thus, no credibility.

Posted by: bondo Jul 25 2005, 09:31 AM

QUOTE (davep @ Jul 24 2005, 08:36 PM)

QUOTE (turtleman @ Jul 24 2005, 01:56 PM)
Bondo;

What makes you suspect of their credibility?

When they say 'pours' instead of pores is one very good hint.
When they say anodizing is coating another metal onto the aluminum is another.
Either they know the know the technologies and the terms including the correct spelling of the terms, or they don't. In this case I'd say they don't. Thus, no credibility.

Yup!

One more thing definitely worth mentioning... Once you get this stuff in there.. if it doesn't work, it will be nearly impossible to then fix it "right". You'd have to grind out ALL of it before welding it up.

Posted by: kwales Jul 25 2005, 11:50 AM

Just send it out to somebody good to weld it.

That rod is probably similar to the glorified solder stuff Sears sells.

Tried patching a crack in an aluminum Cub Cadett oil pan with the Sears stuff. Aluminum conducts heat so well (away from the weld site) that you will have big problems getting it hot enough to make the solder stick. Then it all the sudden slumps and flows away where you don't want it.

Sucker leaked in no time and recracked. Was worth a shot as the temps were low on the bottom of the engine.

You use that stuff and your gonna need major grinding or a new head.

Your head, do what you want.

Ken