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Posted by: Jwjwjw Jun 10 2021, 06:19 AM

I’m getting ready to start this project. What is the first few steps?

Build a jig? Any recommendations?
Remove the engine?
?
?
?

Need advice from the wealth of intelligence from this forum please.

Thanks Jeff


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Posted by: sreyemj Jun 10 2021, 07:03 AM

Add door braces to the car, and then cut out everything that is too far gone. Then you can start fabricating or buying replacement pieces and welding them in. Your car looks like a real challenge, might be worth buying a more solid stripped tub to start with.

Posted by: Galen Jun 10 2021, 07:11 AM

I would pull the engine step one. Get that thing out of the way. Next, I would clean everything up as best as you can to see what you are dealing with. Finally, I would start with a small, isolated rust spot...cut and weld in patch. Get your feet wet and build some confidence.

Here is my project, hope some of the pics help.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=353659

Remember it is only metal...cut and weld. You can do it one patch at a time!

Galen

Posted by: Superhawk996 Jun 10 2021, 07:11 AM

Read the other threads on massive rust repairs.

Jeff Hail's is a classic
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76791

Brent Brock's is a very recent succsss story that just got back on the road a couple weeks ago. Good example of a car that probably should have been scrapped but looks showroom fresh now.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=307290

There are literally dozens of these build threads on the forum

My personal advice would be to buy as much complete metal as you can. Floor pans, longs, rear bulkheads, etc. Don't lose track of the need for structural integrity for both performance as well as crash worthiness. It's not just about fixing "holes".

Rule #1 of work like this - you can't weld to rust.

Posted by: mepstein Jun 10 2021, 07:33 AM

read, read, read. There's an old but good thread, digging into hell.
Also, buy some some good PPE. Protect your face, eyes, lungs and hands. You will probably be using an angle grinder and the proper safety equipment is way cheaper than a trip to the ER.

Posted by: bbrock Jun 10 2021, 07:40 AM

Maybe start by calling a priest?

- I second reading Jeff Hail's thread. In fact, read all of the builds in the builds and restoration forum.

- Next, strip the car starting with getting that engine out of there. Take lots of pics as you disassemble and label them so you have good references when you reassemble later. Get plenty of zip lock backs and sharpies to bag and label parts as you take them off.

- Get the tub level and secure. A Celette bench is the gold standard but lots of examples of DIY dollies and fixtures in the threads.

- Print copies of these dimension specs and tape them to the car, whiteboard, or shop wall. Use them often. http://www.914world.com/specs/bodydims.php
http://www.914world.com/specs/underdims.php Jeff Hail's thread also has useful dimensions.

- Brace the door openings with adjustable braces. IMO, the best ones allow doors installed while braces are on. That let's you dial in dimensions and gaps very well while replacing structural members.

- Start cutting and welding

Posted by: Shivers Jun 10 2021, 07:50 AM

Somewhere on here are the proper measurements you'll want to go by for bracing the car before dis-assembly of the tub. Like they said it's just metal...Like a big jig-saw puzzle that you weld together.

Posted by: Jwjwjw Jun 10 2021, 08:57 AM

Thanks for all the excellent advise. I have worked on a few rusty British and an Alfa Romeo spider before so I do have some experience. I know it will be tested. That’s the part where we grow right? Haha. I am finishing up a friends Escalade rust now. Then I plan on starting this project. I am retired so hopefully that will help me have more time to dedicate to this project. I’ll post pictures as I go once I start.

I have been looking at some of the other threads of rebuilds.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

Jeff

Posted by: 930cabman Jun 10 2021, 11:09 AM

You might start drinking .... heavily

Posted by: BillJ Jun 10 2021, 11:40 AM

what does the rest look like? If this is a very rusty chassis there are reasonably affordable starting points that may be better

Posted by: brant Jun 10 2021, 11:46 AM

I agree

This is going to be a lot of work and 10k in parts
It might be worth finding a 10k driver that doesn’t need rust repair
The time saved could be used on maintenance

Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Jun 10 2021, 12:05 PM

Posted by: mbseto Jun 10 2021, 12:43 PM

1) Grab the chassis measurements diagram from this site and make all those measurements. That itself could be a go/nogo moment. Take pictures of every part of the body - I wish I had taken many more pics.

nth-ing read up on all the classic build threads. Helps formulate an overall strategy. Start your own build thread!

2) Build a dolly and door braces. This is a good chance to polish up the welding skills.

3) Start buying metal and cutting and welding. Again, agree with the emphasis on safety gear. For a long haul project, long term effects of dust and vapor, loud noise, etc. can be just as bad as losing a chunk of you in one quick accident.

Posted by: jaredmcginness Jun 10 2021, 02:27 PM

Fixable! Pull the motor. Gives you the extra room to work.

Hire a chiropractor for the few days following. Getting in and out is no fun.

Posted by: roblav1 Jun 10 2021, 05:32 PM

A rotisserie is massively helpful. And when the car is done, you can sell it at 2/3 the cost you paid.

Posted by: rjames Jun 10 2021, 05:33 PM

Seriously though, always happy to see another car get saved. As others have said, more pictures please!

Posted by: bbrock Jun 10 2021, 06:31 PM

Ignore the naysayers. We crazies understand the satisfaction of an "impossible" rustoration. I was advised to scrap my car when I stared. I put about $30K into it all total, including original purchase price. Did everything myself except machining on the engine, and now it is insured for an agreed value of $50K What's funny is that looking back, the rust repair was neither the most expensive, nor the hardest part of the restoration, but it was the most satisfying. But do be realistic. Sounds like this is not your first rodeo so you are ahead of the game. Looking forward to seeing the progress.

Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Jun 10 2021, 06:50 PM

Do you mean the car or the rotisserie?

Posted by: roblav1 Jun 10 2021, 07:36 PM

Ha hs! I meant the rotisserie!

Posted by: bkrantz Jun 10 2021, 08:17 PM

But never put a body on a rotisserie until it is fulling braced and all the dimensions have been confirmed.

Posted by: wonkipop Jun 11 2021, 01:12 AM

this image being detail of same car as steel bar welded from engine mount to suspension trailing arm?

seems to be a glimpse into whats on the other side of a hell hole supernova collapse.

i'd think hard about this one before you start.

Posted by: brant Jun 11 2021, 08:44 AM

agreed...
and honestly a rust repaired car is worth less than a never been rusty, original car.
yes... a very professional repair is better than an amateur one... but that will have to be determined by a future caretaker down the road...

This car has some of the most significant rust and PO repairs I've seen... aka the rear trailing arm.

unfortunately the unit body is a lot more difficult to piece together than a british car with a frame.

brant

Posted by: bbrock Jun 11 2021, 09:11 AM

Where are you seeing this? In another thread? The image in OP shows metal welded in to bridge rusted floor across the double walled firewall. While it may be an omen of poor quality repairs in other areas of the car, it is a commonly repaired rust area and not that difficult either. Granted, from this one pic I would assume there is a LOT of rust to repair on this car we don't see, but I don't see anything in this pic that makes me think this couldn't be a good PROJECT car.

Are there more pics of this car that I'm missing

Posted by: BillJ Jun 11 2021, 09:28 AM

yeah definitely my point earlier. IF this is the only major area of issue then looks pretty straightforward. That is a big if of course lol. Could very well be worth the effort or perhaps not. More data is needed for us to give this brave soul good advice.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Jun 11 2021, 10:33 AM

From other post.



What is missing form all this discussion is what is the condition of the rest of the car.

I've undertaken complete passenger side long replacement, nearly complete replacement of this very area, and complete floor pan replacement. Not a show stopper as @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 mentioned.

BUT . . . . in my case the upper body is very solid. Even then, I'm doubting my own sanity for having undertaken my own project which appears to have been a better starting point than this car based on the craziness done to the trailing arm. I just didn't want to cut up a nice /4 to do a /6 conversion so I have my own flawed logic of why I did what I did.

I'd honestly suggest that before @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24296 undertakes this, that the rest of the car be honestly assessed in terms of what it will take to repair it properly. We don't have enough infomation with the limited photos posted thus far.

Posted by: bbrock Jun 11 2021, 11:23 AM

Ah. Thank you. I was fearsome confused there. This pic also reveals another DAPO repair adjacent to the DAPO repair shown in the earlier pic. So we have established this car has suffered a DAPO and there are likely many other areas with bad repairs. My car had a DAPO too only that DAPO was me 30 years younger and interested in just cobbling together the fastest and cheapest patch that would allow me to make it to work the next day. It happens. Nope, no show stoppers here, but yes an assessment of the whole car is need to be realistic of what is needed and if it fit the owner's abilities and motivations.

Philosophically, there is a huge difference in motivation for buying a car for a project vs. wanting one to drive. Of course anyone who just wants a nice 914 to hop in and drive should run away from this car, but as a project it doesn't look bad so far. Most people would have scrapped the car I'm driving now, but that isn't what it is about for me. If I didn't want the challenge of bringing my car back from the dead, I would not be driving a 914 now, period. It isn't a practical car where I live. The reward of learning how to bring a pile of rust back to a nice example of the make has been worth every penny already. It's the difference between buying a Tonka toy, or a Revell model kit.

Lastly, not that profit was a motivation for me, but the idea that extensive rust repair projects cost more than the car will be worth is outdated. The value of the cars is increasing as has availability of inexpensive repair panels. Paying for labor is what puts projects upside down. If you aren't paying for that, you absolutely can break even, or even profit. It is true that you can usually buy a solid car for cheaper than to fix up a rust bucket, but again, whether that is good or bad depends on what the owner wants to gain from the experience.

Posted by: Jwjwjw Jun 11 2021, 06:50 PM

Brent

Thanks for the encouragement. I’m of the same mind as you, doing this because I enjoy doing this and bringing back to life something others would not do.

Thanks Jeff

Posted by: bkrantz Jun 11 2021, 07:34 PM

Brent, you stated this well. Among us really crazy people, the fun is the rebuild. You mention the valuation of labor, that we provide for free. I suggest we are actually paying to play, with money for parts, supplies, tools, etc.

Some wise people have posed the key question: what do you really want to do with your time?

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jun 12 2021, 08:38 AM

I would remove the engine and transmission, sandblast the area and then see what is left that is good That will be the first step. Best thing is that all of the repair panels are available

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 12 2021, 09:42 AM

So....how does the trailing move up and down with that bar welded to it connected to the engine support bar? Regardless, I agree with the Doc, yank the engine, transaxle and media blast the entire area to see what you really have to work with.

Posted by: windforfun Jun 12 2021, 10:12 AM

It's time to "gut" the car.

Posted by: bbrock Jun 12 2021, 10:30 AM

Or the alternative question, how does the engine NOT move with the trailing arm? Looks like the bolt in the mount may be missing and the bar was welded to replace? That repair is f'd up for sure.


Seems extreme unless you just mean strip it down to the tub.

Posted by: mepstein Jun 12 2021, 11:26 AM

There might not be much left after blasting.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Jun 12 2021, 11:34 AM

Nah! Brent started with worse from what we've seen so far. Excluding that trailing arm "fix". Get er' done! At worst, you get the salvageable parts off the tub. If it turns out that the tub isn't worth saving, now you're ready for a new tub parts swap!

Posted by: mepstein Jun 12 2021, 12:30 PM

I’m just kidding. I’ve learned a lot from parting and cutting up cars. Unfortunately not enough to learn how to put them back together. The ones I cut up wasn’t due to rust but done because the PO’s “repairs”, usually with a stick welder, pop rivet gun and plywood had made the car dangerous and even more difficult to repair.
Whatever the OP decides will be a good learning experience.

Posted by: Geezer914 Jun 12 2021, 12:46 PM

Better off finding a stripped tub from CA with very little rust and use this one for a parts car.

Posted by: windforfun Jun 12 2021, 05:06 PM

Posted by: wonkipop Jun 12 2021, 06:05 PM

"what makes me think its not a good project car?"
not sure i said that.

i do advise to stop and think.
as others note, whats the rest of the car like.
----------->that requires a stop and think.

whichever way you look at it, it would appear that is where the car discussed here is at.
not a few repair jobs with the engine in etc as the owner inquires. its a strip down to tub job. and a commitment to years of work.

you can save anything if you have the time, skill and patience.
which again, those of you who have done it, i would not discount the skills you have.
and have used, even if you have taught yourself.