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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Door Glass
Posted by: frostyf Sep 12 2021, 05:01 PM
Given that doors got a reinforcement bar (late 73?) And the winder mechanism swapped from cable to scissor, does anyone know if the glass wind up window dimensions are actually different?
If you bought decent glass from a 1970 car, would it fit a later type door? Can you swap older glass onto a later door or are they completely different.
Grateful for any advice from those who know!!
Nick
Posted by: JeffBowlsby Sep 12 2021, 05:25 PM
Early/late is different side window glass because the operating mechanisms were different. Someone here will know the ~changeover dates. Also two types of side window glass, clear and tinted.
Posted by: bdstone914 Sep 12 2021, 08:07 PM
What Jeff said us the windoare shaoed different at the bottom and have different brackets to attach to the regulators. The early windows also have a stainless steel strip with studs that hold the rollers. Early windows were 70-72.
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Sep 12 2021, 09:59 PM
The glass is definitely different; as I understand it, there are four versions of the roll-up window glass:
> Early standard, 1970-1973 models
> Early tinted, 1970-1973 models
> Late standard, 1973-1976 models
> Late tinted, 1973-1976 models
After digging through piles of door windows, I can confirm that the glass is different—with the late windows having a small section that angles downward at the bottom towards the back of the door (I think). The way they attach to the early or late regulators is obviously different, and as Bruce noted early windows have metal strips along their leading with tiny studs for plastic rollers that go into the upright window track in each door.
Someone else might be able to nail down the change-over date, and I am curious too. Fwiw, my 914 is the 193rd 1973 model per the VIN and has the early regulators & glass.
Posted by: rgalla9146 Sep 13 2021, 04:55 AM
I've wondered the same thing.
Is the glass itself interchangeable if the right parts are attached to the glass ?
I think that angled part on the rear of the newer glass becomes the issue.
Posted by: 914Sixer Sep 13 2021, 06:29 AM
One side note, the 74?-76 glass has VW/Audi logo. Do not know change over time frame though.
Early 1973 built up to Jan 1 1973 had the 70-72 early glass. Jan 1973 was when side beam was required and inertia seatbelts were required, door glass had to change with it to later style
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Sep 13 2021, 07:25 AM
One side note, the 74?-76 glass has VW/Audi logo. Do not know change over time frame though.
Both sets of early glass that have been in my doors had the logos—now curious if all early glass had the logos?
I've always wondered about those markings, as the glass has to be unique to the 914, no? Not exactly "on brand" for a sports car that was marketed, sold, and supported as a full-fledged Porsche in its biggest market. Perhaps there was a legal reason for the four markings on the door windows…?
Early 1973 built up to Jan 1 1973 had the 70-72 early glass. Jan 1973 was when side beam was required and inertia seatbelts were required, door glass had to change with it to later style
I think there are hybrid 1973 doors—with late glass but no bars. Not sure how many cars were made that way, however, and guessing it is a pretty small number. Did RoW cars get bars, or NA-bound cars only?
Posted by: mepstein Sep 13 2021, 07:33 AM
One side note, the 74?-76 glass has VW/Audi logo. Do not know change over time frame though.
Both sets of early glass that have been in my doors had the logos—now curious if all early glass had the logos?
I've always wondered about those markings, as the glass has to be unique to the 914, no? Not exactly "on brand" for a sports car that was marketed, sold, and supported as a full-fledged Porsche in its biggest market. Perhaps there was a legal reason for the four markings on the door windows…?
Early 1973 built up to Jan 1 1973 had the 70-72 early glass. Jan 1973 was when side beam was required and inertia seatbelts were required, door glass had to change with it to later style
I think there are hybrid 1973 doors—with late glass but no bars. Not sure how many cars were made that way, however, and guessing it is a pretty small number. Did RoW cars get bars, or NA-bound cars only?
We have a 76 911 euro Carrera with bolt in door bars so I’m guessing the later 914 doors were a US mandate and not ROW.
Posted by: wonkipop Sep 13 2021, 08:41 AM
One side note, the 74?-76 glass has VW/Audi logo. Do not know change over time frame though.
Both sets of early glass that have been in my doors had the logos—now curious if all early glass had the logos?
I've always wondered about those markings, as the glass has to be unique to the 914, no? Not exactly "on brand" for a sports car that was marketed, sold, and supported as a full-fledged Porsche in its biggest market. Perhaps there was a legal reason for the four markings on the door windows…?
Early 1973 built up to Jan 1 1973 had the 70-72 early glass. Jan 1973 was when side beam was required and inertia seatbelts were required, door glass had to change with it to later style
I think there are hybrid 1973 doors—with late glass but no bars. Not sure how many cars were made that way, however, and guessing it is a pretty small number. Did RoW cars get bars, or NA-bound cars only?
We have a 76 911 euro Carrera with bolt in door bars so I’m guessing the later 914 doors were a US mandate and not ROW.
correct.
row from 73 might also have less reinforcing up at the front of the cars from memory.
Posted by: davep Sep 13 2021, 09:02 AM
At about 1000 cars into 1973 model year the doors and most of the parts for the windows changed. The window lift system went from a cable drive to a scissor lift system. Then as of Jan 1, 1973 the doors, at least for the North American market, also received the crash protection beam inside the door.
You can try swapping entire doors, but switching parts is not something I would consider trying.
Posted by: JeffBowlsby Sep 13 2021, 10:14 AM
Side window bug from a late 1974 model. This one is clear glass.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: frostyf Sep 13 2021, 03:14 PM
Thankvyou for all the advice and info. I think based on the VIN mine is a first half 73 but.... im currently away from home for the week so have passed the glass onto the next in queue. I just cant check for certain until a week Weds and dont want to risk getting it wrong.
Posted by: mepstein Sep 13 2021, 03:18 PM
Get the glass that fits with your window mechanism. That's all that matters.
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Sep 15 2021, 10:02 AM
At about 1000 cars into 1973 model year the doors and most of the parts for the windows changed. The window lift system went from a cable drive to a scissor lift system. Then as of Jan 1, 1973 the doors, at least for the North American market, also received the crash protection beam inside the door.
You can try swapping entire doors, but switching parts is not something I would consider trying.
^ Thank you. That info fits with what I know, though I suspect nailing the actual changeover date down might be tough. My guess is using up parts was a priority.
Conversions have been done, but what I saw prompted me go find a pair of late doors. Then I found an NOS early top and got cold feet. Back to early windows I went. One early > late conversion, mostly cut/bolted in: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=322769
Paul Sayegh did a late window/early door conversion in his black 914 3.6, but I can't find pics. Like everything else on that car, it was done really well.
Posted by: mepstein Sep 15 2021, 11:20 AM
At about 1000 cars into 1973 model year the doors and most of the parts for the windows changed. The window lift system went from a cable drive to a scissor lift system. Then as of Jan 1, 1973 the doors, at least for the North American market, also received the crash protection beam inside the door.
You can try swapping entire doors, but switching parts is not something I would consider trying.
^ Thank you. That info fits with what I know, though I suspect nailing the actual changeover date down might be tough. My guess is using up parts was a priority.
Conversions have been done, but what I saw prompted me go find a pair of late doors. Then I found an NOS early top and got cold feet. Back to early windows I went. One early > late conversion, mostly cut/bolted in: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=322769
Paul Sayegh did a late window/early door conversion in his black 914 3.6, but I can't find pics. Like everything else on that car, it was done really well.
"digging into hell" classic thread also shows the conversion to late mech into an early door.
post 567
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=16748&st=500
Posted by: JamesM Sep 15 2021, 11:45 AM
I think there are hybrid 1973 doors—with late glass but no bars. Not sure how many cars were made that way, however, and guessing it is a pretty small number. Did RoW cars get bars, or NA-bound cars only?
That is correct. I have a pair of them in my shed I have been hanging on to for the last 20 years.
Wish I had the sense to record the VIN back then.
Posted by: frostyf Oct 13 2021, 10:05 PM
I think there are hybrid 1973 doors—with late glass but no bars. Not sure how many cars were made that way, however, and guessing it is a pretty small number. Did RoW cars get bars, or NA-bound cars only?
That is correct. I have a pair of them in my shed I have been hanging on to for the last 20 years.
Wish I had the sense to record the VIN back then.
So my doors appear to be the late glass in an early door without the reinforcement. Mine are pretty battered on the outside, but appear solid without any rot. There's also some of the tar like sealant on the inside of the outer skin.
Posted by: frostyf Oct 13 2021, 10:07 PM
At about 1000 cars into 1973 model year the doors and most of the parts for the windows changed. The window lift system went from a cable drive to a scissor lift system. Then as of Jan 1, 1973 the doors, at least for the North American market, also received the crash protection beam inside the door.
You can try swapping entire doors, but switching parts is not something I would consider trying.
^ Thank you. That info fits with what I know, though I suspect nailing the actual changeover date down might be tough. My guess is using up parts was a priority.
Conversions have been done, but what I saw prompted me go find a pair of late doors. Then I found an NOS early top and got cold feet. Back to early windows I went. One early > late conversion, mostly cut/bolted in: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=322769
Paul Sayegh did a late window/early door conversion in his black 914 3.6, but I can't find pics. Like everything else on that car, it was done really well.
"digging into hell" classic thread also shows the conversion to late mech into an early door.
post 567
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=16748&st=500
Mark, the diagrams in that conversion are really useful thank you. Realised I have early doors (no reinforcement bars) but late glass! Will be trying out those door wafers shortly.
Posted by: bdstone914 Oct 13 2021, 10:46 PM
At about 1000 cars into 1973 model year the doors and most of the parts for the windows changed. The window lift system went from a cable drive to a scissor lift system. Then as of Jan 1, 1973 the doors, at least for the North American market, also received the crash protection beam inside the door.
You can try swapping entire doors, but switching parts is not something I would consider trying.
^ Thank you. That info fits with what I know, though I suspect nailing the actual changeover date down might be tough. My guess is using up parts was a priority.
Conversions have been done, but what I saw prompted me go find a pair of late doors. Then I found an NOS early top and got cold feet. Back to early windows I went. One early > late conversion, mostly cut/bolted in: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=322769
Paul Sayegh did a late window/early door conversion in his black 914 3.6, but I can't find pics. Like everything else on that car, it was done really well.
"digging into hell" classic thread also shows the conversion to late mech into an early door.
post 567
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=16748&st=500
Mark, the diagrams in that conversion are really useful thank you. Realised I have early doors (no reinforcement bars) but late glass! Will be trying out those door wafers shortly.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=17168
Early 73 doors had late glass and regulators, earl door posts with the fuzzy insert and not reinforcement bar.
Posted by: frostyf Oct 14 2021, 07:43 PM
At about 1000 cars into 1973 model year the doors and most of the parts for the windows changed. The window lift system went from a cable drive to a scissor lift system. Then as of Jan 1, 1973 the doors, at least for the North American market, also received the crash protection beam inside the door.
You can try swapping entire doors, but switching parts is not something I would consider trying.
^ Thank you. That info fits with what I know, though I suspect nailing the actual changeover date down might be tough. My guess is using up parts was a priority.
Conversions have been done, but what I saw prompted me go find a pair of late doors. Then I found an NOS early top and got cold feet. Back to early windows I went. One early > late conversion, mostly cut/bolted in: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=322769
Paul Sayegh did a late window/early door conversion in his black 914 3.6, but I can't find pics. Like everything else on that car, it was done really well.
"digging into hell" classic thread also shows the conversion to late mech into an early door.
post 567
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=16748&st=500
Mark, the diagrams in that conversion are really useful thank you. Realised I have early doors (no reinforcement bars) but late glass! Will be trying out those door wafers shortly.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=17168
Early 73 doors had late glass and regulators, earl door posts with the fuzzy insert and not reinforcement bar.
Thanks Bruce, believe that's what I've got. Its got a 72 manufacture date but a 73 VIN. Its not one of the early 1000 cars with the vinyl on the windscreen frames, but is an early 73.
Posted by: JamesM Jan 26 2022, 06:23 PM
Dragging this thread back up again as I noticed another glass anomaly when looking at at a spare pair of doors off a late 72 car I have and now curious if there was yet another style of door/window.
These doors have cable winders (72) but the glass itself extends all the way back into the window channel and is held in place by the felt channel liner used on the 73+ cars. All the other cable winder cars I have had the glass was not as long and had metal/plastic attachment in the lower rear corner that ran in the felt less track.
Has anyone else seen this early cable mechanism but with the later felt track using glass?
Ill see if I can grab some pictures tomorrow.
Come to think of it I have a VERY early 73 2.0 parts car that has the cable winders, ill have to go look at that one as well.
Posted by: 76-914 Jan 26 2022, 11:05 PM
I've wondered the same thing.
Is the glass itself interchangeable if the right parts are attached to the glass ?
I think that angled part on the rear of the newer glass becomes the issue.
Roy, no. Been there tried that. Removed the SS pieces from a 70 window only to find out it cannot fit to a scissor type mechanism. Ended up giving the window and the removed SS pieces to Bruce Stone.
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