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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Best 914-6 engine mount
Posted by: David Stowers Sep 15 2021, 10:53 AM
Hi Guys
I need to choose an engine mount for my conversion. Any pros and cons of which type to go for?
I understand height on install is an issue to get a good air seal to avoid overheating issues
Thanks
Posted by: nditiz1 Sep 15 2021, 10:54 AM
Hi Guys
I need to choose an engine mount for my conversion. Any pros and cons of which type to go for?
I understand height on install is an issue to get a good air seal to avoid overheating issues
Thanks
Maddog OEM .
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Sep 15 2021, 11:02 AM
The best buy for the smaller engines through 2.4 is maddog and we have his mounts on the shelf
for 2.7 and larger the dual club sport from Rich
Hi Guys
I need to choose an engine mount for my conversion. Any pros and cons of which type to go for?
I understand height on install is an issue to get a good air seal to avoid overheating issues
Thanks
Posted by: brant Sep 15 2021, 11:12 AM
the PMS tilting mount has the advantage of easier motor install/removal, and also tipping for service work. may not be as important for a street car. but very helpful on a race car.
Posted by: Justinp71 Sep 15 2021, 11:21 AM
the PMS tilting mount has the advantage of easier motor install/removal, and also tipping for service work. may not be as important for a street car. but very helpful on a race car.
Is this bolt or weld on? I went with Rich Johnson because it was both (weld and bolt) I thought was was a nice way to go. Just have to remove the rear brake lock up device.
Posted by: David Stowers Sep 15 2021, 11:24 AM
[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='Sep 15 2021, 09:02 AM' post='2945706']
The best buy for the smaller engines through 2.4 is maddog and we have his mounts on the shelf
for 2.7 and larger the dual club sport from Rich
[quote name='David Stowers' post='2945700' date='Sep 15 2021, 09:53 AM']
Hi Guys
I need to choose an engine mount for my conversion. Any pros and cons of which type to go for?
I understand height on install is an issue to get a good air seal to avoid overheating issues
Thanks
[/quote]
OEM or the other version? Pros and cons please. I’m not bothered about originality
Posted by: Steve Sep 15 2021, 11:44 AM
[quote name='David Stowers' date='Sep 15 2021, 10:24 AM' post='2945712']
[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='Sep 15 2021, 09:02 AM' post='2945706']
The best buy for the smaller engines through 2.4 is maddog and we have his mounts on the shelf
for 2.7 and larger the dual club sport from Rich
[quote name='David Stowers' post='2945700' date='Sep 15 2021, 09:53 AM']
Hi Guys
I need to choose an engine mount for my conversion. Any pros and cons of which type to go for?
I understand height on install is an issue to get a good air seal to avoid overheating issues
Thanks
[/quote]
OEM or the other version? Pros and cons please. I’m not bothered about originality
[/quote]
What size motor? I agree with the Doctor. Dual mounts according to Rich Johnson has less vibration than a single mount. The PMS tilting dual mount, has the advantage of trackside access to the engine. I have a Rich Johnson mount that I have used with a 2.7, 3,2 and future 3.6. Works great!
Posted by: brant Sep 15 2021, 12:28 PM
the PMS tilting mount has the advantage of easier motor install/removal, and also tipping for service work. may not be as important for a street car. but very helpful on a race car.
Is this bolt or weld on? I went with Rich Johnson because it was both (weld and bolt) I thought was was a nice way to go. Just have to remove the rear brake lock up device.
Mines welded
I assume they all are?
Posted by: Steve Sep 15 2021, 01:29 PM
the PMS tilting mount has the advantage of easier motor install/removal, and also tipping for service work. may not be as important for a street car. but very helpful on a race car.
Is this bolt or weld on? I went with Rich Johnson because it was both (weld and bolt) I thought was was a nice way to go. Just have to remove the rear brake lock up device.
Mines welded
I assume they all are?
There all designed to be welded on, except for the Cross Bar Motor mount that uses the stock 4 mounting pods. I don't know of anyone making that mount anymore.
Posted by: Justinp71 Sep 15 2021, 05:57 PM
the PMS tilting mount has the advantage of easier motor install/removal, and also tipping for service work. may not be as important for a street car. but very helpful on a race car.
Is this bolt or weld on? I went with Rich Johnson because it was both (weld and bolt) I thought was was a nice way to go. Just have to remove the rear brake lock up device.
Mines welded
I assume they all are?
The Rich Johnson is both. So you have about 4 thru bolts as I recall that take some of the load thru the firewall and its also stitch welded. I personally liked this as an extra safety measure.
Posted by: 930cabman Sep 15 2021, 06:10 PM
Hi Guys
I need to choose an engine mount for my conversion. Any pros and cons of which type to go for?
I understand height on install is an issue to get a good air seal to avoid overheating issues
Thanks
Maddog OEM .
By far, Maddog has a setup that fits perfect
Posted by: Tdskip Sep 16 2021, 06:09 AM
The Naro mount is easy to install and everything fit (once mounted slightly higher than directions indicate as discussed here extensively) BUT I haven’t run it yet and am a bit concerned over NVH compared to the Maddog and factory style set up.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Sep 16 2021, 06:12 AM
I have had the Rich Johnson mount. While it is a little harder to get the bolts in the mounts when installing the engine, it works great with the big 4.0L engine I have.
I had the body shop put in the mount when I had the paint and body work done. They put it exactly where the directions said, and I have had no issues with it at all.
Clay
Posted by: lesorubcheek Sep 16 2021, 08:24 AM
One issue to consider is the brake pressure regulator. It's been mentioned that cars with the later setup likely have to relocate the regulator farther toward the driver's side so it has proper clearance with the /6 mount. Looks like in the PET the change was made in the '74 model year after VIN 4742915751. Do all styles of the /6 mounts have this issue? Pretty sure I've read posts where the OEM style mount has the problem. Just looking, I'd guess the Bulkhead mount would also, but can't be sure.
Dan
Posted by: Steve Sep 16 2021, 09:04 AM
One issue to consider is the brake pressure regulator. It's been mentioned that cars with the later setup likely have to relocate the regulator farther toward the driver's side so it has proper clearance with the /6 mount. Looks like in the PET the change was made in the '74 model year after VIN 4742915751. Do all styles of the /6 mounts have this issue? Pretty sure I've read posts where the OEM style mount has the problem. Just looking, I'd guess the Bulkhead mount would also, but can't be sure.
Dan
I’m using the Rich Johnson mount with a “T” instead of the regulator. No mounting issues. In over 30 years of autocross and street driving I never had an issue with the T.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Sep 16 2021, 09:29 AM
One issue to consider is the brake pressure regulator. It's been mentioned that cars with the later setup likely have to relocate the regulator farther toward the driver's side so it has proper clearance with the /6 mount. Looks like in the PET the change was made in the '74 model year after VIN 4742915751. Do all styles of the /6 mounts have this issue? Pretty sure I've read posts where the OEM style mount has the problem. Just looking, I'd guess the Bulkhead mount would also, but can't be sure.
Dan
I have Boxster calipers, so they are sized for a mid engine car. I pulled the valve and put in a T to replace it.
So I don't know if it hits or not.
Clay
Posted by: Steve Sep 16 2021, 10:26 AM
One issue to consider is the brake pressure regulator. It's been mentioned that cars with the later setup likely have to relocate the regulator farther toward the driver's side so it has proper clearance with the /6 mount. Looks like in the PET the change was made in the '74 model year after VIN 4742915751. Do all styles of the /6 mounts have this issue? Pretty sure I've read posts where the OEM style mount has the problem. Just looking, I'd guess the Bulkhead mount would also, but can't be sure.
Dan
I have Boxster calipers, so they are sized for a mid engine car. I pulled the valve and put in a T to replace it.
So I don't know if it hits or not.
Clay
I’m also running boxster calipers front and rear with a 911 parking brake.
Posted by: Luke M Sep 16 2021, 12:09 PM
One issue to consider is the brake pressure regulator. It's been mentioned that cars with the later setup likely have to relocate the regulator farther toward the driver's side so it has proper clearance with the /6 mount. Looks like in the PET the change was made in the '74 model year after VIN 4742915751. Do all styles of the /6 mounts have this issue? Pretty sure I've read posts where the OEM style mount has the problem. Just looking, I'd guess the Bulkhead mount would also, but can't be sure.
Dan
I just went through this with my brothers 914. He has a 74 with the RJ 6 conversion mount welded in place. Yes, the pressure regulator needs to be relocated or swapped out for a T fitting. You also need new brake lines bent to fit properly. We went with the T fitting. The brakes he is using are PMB converted GT 6 calipers in the rear, and 911 Aluminum S calipers up front.
If I where to do another 6 conv I would use the OEM style Maddog mount setup which is a copy of the factory 6 mount.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: SKL1 Sep 16 2021, 12:55 PM
If using the maddog mount, do people recommend the wevo or uro option?
Posted by: lesorubcheek Sep 16 2021, 01:26 PM
First, David, thanks for starting this thread and asking the question. Forgive me if I'm jumping in a little too anxiously, but this is the exact question I'm trying to answer also. Trying to get all the ducks in a row for what's needed and the engine mount is one of the very important details.
I just went through this with my brothers 914. He has a 74 with the RJ 6 conversion mount welded in place. Yes, the pressure regulator needs to be relocated or swapped out for a T fitting. You also need new brake lines bent to fit properly. We went with the T fitting. The brakes he is using are PMB converted GT 6 calipers in the rear, and 911 Aluminum S calipers up front.
If I where to do another 6 conv I would use the OEM style Maddog mount setup which is a copy of the factory 6 mount.
That looks very nice. Better to say amazingly beautiful! Truly inspirational work. Thanks for verifying with your experience and recommendations.
If using the maddog mount, do people recommend the wevo or uro option?
Yes, perfect next question. You read my mind.
Dan
Posted by: Superhawk996 Sep 16 2021, 02:07 PM
From an NVH standpoint, the URO OEM style mount is going to provide superior isolation.
Posted by: lesorubcheek Sep 17 2021, 11:09 AM
What really makes the OEM style mount superior to the bulkhead mount? Agree it's nice to have a look close to factory, but for a car that's a conversion and not a real 914-6, can't see where it would make much difference from a "it'll be worth more" perspective.
Is it easier to install and remove an engine with the factory style OEM mount? The bulkhead mount just looks like it would be superior with two front mount points spread out as opposed to a single centered point for the OEM style. Does the bulkhead mount cause any interference or make access more difficult, or is there some additional work required to install it?
Posted by: mb911 Sep 17 2021, 12:27 PM
What really makes the OEM style mount superior to the bulkhead mount? Agree it's nice to have a look close to factory, but for a car that's a conversion and not a real 914-6, can't see where it would make much difference from a "it'll be worth more" perspective.
Is it easier to install and remove an engine with the factory style OEM mount? The bulkhead mount just looks like it would be superior with two front mount points spread out as opposed to a single centered point for the OEM style. Does the bulkhead mount cause any interference or make access more difficult, or is there some additional work required to install it?
So the reason I suggest the Oem style is the following reasons
1. Does not interfere with shift linkage in anyway shape or form
2. Does not interfere with heat exchanger installation
3. Does not interfere with the wiring harness
4. Does not require moving the brake regulator
5. Can be installed with proper engine height and angle
The naroscape Does not work well with line 1,2,4, and 5
PMS is about the same
The Rich Johnson mount is a solid second in choice for me. PMS and Naro are last for me
Posted by: Steve Sep 17 2021, 12:31 PM
What really makes the OEM style mount superior to the bulkhead mount? Agree it's nice to have a look close to factory, but for a car that's a conversion and not a real 914-6, can't see where it would make much difference from a "it'll be worth more" perspective.
Is it easier to install and remove an engine with the factory style OEM mount? The bulkhead mount just looks like it would be superior with two front mount points spread out as opposed to a single centered point for the OEM style. Does the bulkhead mount cause any interference or make access more difficult, or is there some additional work required to install it?
I might be biased, but the 911 has two mounts, it will be less vibration and stronger. Overkill maybe.. The factory mount requires welding and its best practice to weld in the bulk head mount. Installing and removing the motor, from my experience requires you to remove the tin in front of the motor to get to the two bolts through the mounts. The front tin also hangs on the bulkhead mount, when raising or lowering the motor. I am guessing the factory mount would also require this? Easy to remove and install the front tin with the motor in the car.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Sep 17 2021, 01:55 PM
I always wondered why Porsche didn't add the proper mounts to use the 911 crossbar when installing the six in the 914 chassis?
That would put the mounts way farther outboard, and would make it much easier to install and remove the motor. Plus it would mean less parts count in inventory.
Posted by: mb911 Sep 17 2021, 02:41 PM
I always wondered why Porsche didn't add the proper mounts to use the 911 crossbar when installing the six in the 914 chassis?
That would put the mounts way farther outboard, and would make it much easier to install and remove the motor. Plus it would mean less parts count in inventory.
That's a great point if it would have been engineered for it than all the items I listed would be a non issue. Also Interesting why the heat exchangers were not mirrored
Posted by: Steve Sep 17 2021, 02:47 PM
I always wondered why Porsche didn't add the proper mounts to use the 911 crossbar when installing the six in the 914 chassis?
That would put the mounts way farther outboard, and would make it much easier to install and remove the motor. Plus it would mean less parts count in inventory.
That's a great point if it would have been engineered for it than all the items I listed would be a non issue. Also Interesting why the heat exchangers were not mirrored
If they used the stock 911 bar, would it interfere with the heat exchangers like the cross bar motor mount did. Also the pissing match on using the four cylinder mounts versus moving the drivetrain mount to the firewall. Does it change the center of gravity?
Posted by: mepstein Sep 17 2021, 03:19 PM
I always wondered why Porsche didn't add the proper mounts to use the 911 crossbar when installing the six in the 914 chassis?
That would put the mounts way farther outboard, and would make it much easier to install and remove the motor. Plus it would mean less parts count in inventory.
That's a great point if it would have been engineered for it than all the items I listed would be a non issue. Also Interesting why the heat exchangers were not mirrored
If they used the stock 911 bar, would it interfere with the heat exchangers like the cross bar motor mount did. Also the pissing match on using the four cylinder mounts versus moving the drivetrain mount to the firewall. Does it change the center of gravity?
Center of gravity doesn’t change just by moving a pivot point.
Posted by: burton73 Sep 17 2021, 03:41 PM
Factory engine mount stiffening modification. Installed by PMB
In number 41 factory 6
Bob B
Posted by: burton73 Sep 17 2021, 04:44 PM
For reference of mount with it put on a painting rotisserie. 30th 6th down the production line
Bob B
Posted by: lesorubcheek Sep 17 2021, 06:07 PM
This is amazing information. Here's a few things gleaned from reading around. Hopefully it's correct. Please correct if something is screwed up.
- The Rich Johnson mount is pretty much the same as the current Maddog's Bulkhead mount.
- The Bulkhead mount looks to have a little tricky section for feeding the main wire loom up through it. Advantage here would go to using the OEM style mount.
- Unless an engine produces significant torque, there's no real advantage of spreading the load side to side. More area (or maybe volume) of rubber on mounts may reduce NVH, but torsional twist shouldn't be an issue to worry about. So, there's no real need to use the Bulkhead style over an OEM unless you have a high torque engine.
- Primary load on the front mounts is due to acceleration (upward force) and braking (downward). The location of the OEM mount is ideal relative to body structure for strength.
- 911s mount style is necessary since the rear cross member isn't structurally strong enough to attach in the center. They need to attach on the outboard where the chassis is strong enough to handle vertical forces.
Dan
Posted by: lesorubcheek Dec 16 2021, 02:05 PM
After much deliberation, finally pulled the trigger on the Maddogs OEM style engine mount using the URO mount. Many thanks to everyone providing advice, since choosing a mount isn't a trivial task. Haven't tried to test fitment, but the parts are of excellent quality. If anyone is hesitant, here's one vote to go for it. Big thanks to Maddogs for making this so easy and for your quality work!!!!!
The only thing I may do is tack the nuts that hold the URO mount in the cradle. Looks like it may be a little difficult to get to them after welding the cradle to the firewall since they're behind the reinforcements. Then again it may be fine. Have to remember to check this before welding.
Dan
Posted by: 930cabman Dec 16 2021, 03:09 PM
After much deliberation, finally pulled the trigger on the Maddogs OEM style engine mount using the URO mount. Many thanks to everyone providing advice, since choosing a mount isn't a trivial task. Haven't tried to test fitment, but the parts are of excellent quality. If anyone is hesitant, here's one vote to go for it. Big thanks to Maddogs for making this so easy and for your quality work!!!!!
The only thing I may do is tack the nuts that hold the URO mount in the cradle. Looks like it may be a little difficult to get to them after welding the cradle to the firewall since they're behind the reinforcements. Then again it may be fine. Have to remember to check this before welding.
Dan
You won't be sorry and Dave is easily available for support. Keep us posted as you continue down the /6 conversion road
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 16 2021, 06:42 PM
One issue to consider is the brake pressure regulator. It's been mentioned that cars with the later setup likely have to relocate the regulator farther toward the driver's side so it has proper clearance with the /6 mount. Looks like in the PET the change was made in the '74 model year after VIN 4742915751. Do all styles of the /6 mounts have this issue? Pretty sure I've read posts where the OEM style mount has the problem. Just looking, I'd guess the Bulkhead mount would also, but can't be sure.
Dan
I made a copy of a copy of a RJ mount, for the brake pressure regulator I just cut out the whole side gusset area of interference, then I welded a new HD shaped gusset. Except for a creative brake line path mine bolts up like stock.
Posted by: rgalla9146 Dec 16 2021, 08:06 PM
After much deliberation, finally pulled the trigger on the Maddogs OEM style engine mount using the URO mount. Many thanks to everyone providing advice, since choosing a mount isn't a trivial task. Haven't tried to test fitment, but the parts are of excellent quality. If anyone is hesitant, here's one vote to go for it. Big thanks to Maddogs for making this so easy and for your quality work!!!!!
The only thing I may do is tack the nuts that hold the URO mount in the cradle. Looks like it may be a little difficult to get to them after welding the cradle to the firewall since they're behind the reinforcements. Then again it may be fine. Have to remember to check this before welding.
Dan
You made the right choice.
It is as close to original as you can get.... so no compromises.
When installing the engine be sure to have a 16" drift pin on hand to guide the
front engine mount up toward the body mount..... the rear mounts will then go
right where they belong.
Before these were available I fabricated a copy of the original 6 cyl. body mount for my GT
conversion because the others available all had one or more issues.
Posted by: lesorubcheek Dec 16 2021, 08:27 PM
You won't be sorry and Dave is easily available for support. Keep us posted as you continue down the /6 conversion road
Sure will. It's a slow start though. Still in the planning and acquisition phase. Development won't begin until at least another year and that's if I'm lucky.
I made a copy of a copy of a RJ mount, for the brake pressure regulator I just cut out the whole side gusset area of interference, then I welded a new HD shaped gusset. Except for a creative brake line path mine bolts up like stock.
Smart way to handle it. Ours was built in late '73 and looks like it won't have the problem of relocating .
You made the right choice.
It is as close to original as you can get.... so no compromises.
When installing the engine be sure to have a 16" drift pin on hand to guide the
front engine mount up toward the body mount..... the rear mounts will then go
right where they belong.
Before these were available I fabricated a copy of the body mount for my GT
conversion because the others available all had one or more issues.
No regrets. Really pleased with how it's put together. Thanks for the suggestion, makes perfect sense. It's this kind of detail that can make all the difference when it comes times to do the install.
Dan
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