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Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 22 2021, 07:20 AM

Dear 914 friends -

At 76, I think I've got one more project in me. My Porsche genius friend Rick found me this in Cleveland:

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/d/lakewood-1980-porsche-924-turbo-special/7387301032.html

And I have a contract on it for less than asking price. Friends in Cleveland looked at it closely on Wed. nite, sent me 7 close-up videos of it and gave it a huge thumbs up. Engine did run for few seconds with starter fluid, started immediately and sounded like new. Almost no rust, interior immaculate.

This is a very rare Special Edition with custom interior, wheels and two-tone paint.

Looking for a great source of info on 924's but can't find much. Nothing like 914 world.

Any pointers for a resource like 914world would be appreciated - tho I'm sure there is none.

NO - not selling the 914! My garage has room for both cars.

TIA,

GN

Posted by: Big Len Oct 22 2021, 07:26 AM

I would have bought it too. Best of luck with it.

Posted by: Chris H. Oct 22 2021, 07:31 AM

Nice buy! Those are increasing in value for sure.

Here's a site I found when I considered buying a very low mileage 924:

http://924.org/

and the forum BBS:

http://924board.org/

Be VERY careful when you go to start it. The timing belt has to be changed beforehand, and you should also make sure the internals are well lubricated and nothing is stuck. Maybe you are planning to rebuild so that advice doesn't apply but just in case...

Posted by: infraredcalvin Oct 22 2021, 07:50 AM

Nice buy, love the pasha doors, looks nicely preserved!

Posted by: mate914 Oct 22 2021, 07:54 AM

I had a few 924's NA in high school. They are very good in snow.
I'm sure it will be a fun car, if you can get the fuel system cleaned.
Please don't get to excited, it is now where near a 914.
Matt

Posted by: 914Sixer Oct 22 2021, 08:31 AM

IF you can, hold out for 1981 924 Turbo. In the 90's I did the 1981 model. 80 model has a bunch of quirky things. 81 model has 5 bolt wheels, larger brakes, bigger engine, revised fuel injection system, different transmission. 81 has interchangeable parts with 944. PLEASE read up .

Posted by: ClayPerrine Oct 22 2021, 08:45 AM

My first Porsche was a 79 924. It was, without a doubt, the worst car I ever owned.

This is my opinion. Your experience may be different.

Clay

Posted by: jesse7flying Oct 22 2021, 08:53 AM

Congrats on your find. You might be interested in a YouTube channel by edredas. He owns a 924S and fixes 924, 944 and 928. Wealth of knowledge in his videos.

Posted by: JamesM Oct 22 2021, 09:35 AM

I picked up a non runner with the 5bolt/sport package a few years ago after encountering an offer I couldn't refuse. Had been sitting since 97 for unknown reasons.

Its a whole new learning curve but a fun car to both work on and drive. Very limited resource out there as far as information and even worse as far as parts availability (and that continues to get worse every year). I have encountered situations where all progress gets halted for months as i attempt to source parts.

Start by going through the entire fuel system (mine was completely gummed up and mechanical injection hates that) the cooling system, the timing belt (fond a major issue was the PO had it off by 2 teeth) and the vacuum elbows. That will most likely be enough to get you going.

Check to see if someone installed a manual boost controler... found one on mine and that that PO had it maxed out pushing near 30 PSI

They are fun cars to drive, though the gearing on the turbos is a little strange. I have both 914s and a 944 turbo and to me the 931 feels like a mix between the two. The Chassis being more solid and comfortable + boost makes it feel like the 944 turbo, but the lack of power steering and just overall rawness of nothing being electronicky controlled reminds me a lot of 914s.

Posted by: Root_Werks Oct 22 2021, 09:47 AM

Had a few 924's, never a 931 though. Nice find!

Favorite is the 924S, Wife had one for a number of years. It was hands down the easiest car to drive fast I've ever driven. Very forgiving, made it super fun.

Posted by: JamesM Oct 22 2021, 09:54 AM

Thats sort of a toss up. the 81s (S2,S3 cars) have a critical sensor for the ignition system that has been NLA for years and will leave you completely non-operational with no recourse if it isnt working,

Engine on the 81 is the same size, the turbos are smaller though for faster spool up, and thats personals opinion as to which is preferred there (a lot of people prefer the S1 cars as you can get more top end with the larger turbo.

The 80 Turbo also uses the Porsche G31 transaxle (shares a lot of parts with the 915 box)and the same shift pattern as a 914. It is both stronger and has better weight distribution than the Audi 016 box used in the 81 cars with a standard H shift pattern.

The 5 bolt pattern was not dependent on the year but rather the included packages. my 80 is 5 bolt.

Posted by: Mayne Oct 22 2021, 10:12 AM

The 924 turbo is a cool car! I almost bought a green two-tone with green Pascha interior some years ago. I believe it uses the Audi-derived engine of the NA 924, so quite different than a 944/924S motor. I think it would be a neat car to restore.

Speaking of the 924S, my brother is selling his 88 on eBay right now. Lovely car.

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 22 2021, 04:11 PM

To all -

Thanks TONS for all the help!

Been out all day driving a 944 friend Rick was looking at. Rick is a Porsche genius and encyclopedia and already told me most of the details you have noted. I've also studied everything I could find on the early 924 turbos and read what's out there.

Reason I am going for the '80 with it's "deficiencies" is this is an exceptionally rare car - both a Turbo and Special Edition with that great interior - and a rare find I'm not likely to run across again. 5 wheel lugs, all disc brakes, better turbo, etc. are not worth passing by this gem. I'm not looking for 914 handling - I have that. Looking for rare collectible old Porsche worth restoring in not too bad shape. This car nails it!

Owner bought w/5,000 miles in '86. Was honest about smallest details, wanted to revive car himself he loves it so much but realizes he's not going to do it. E.g., front right drain from sunroof stopped up or broken. But as car has been stored, dampness in floor is recent from recent heavy rain.

I found 924.org, but did not find the forum and will check that out - what I was looking for.

I'm an old mechanic so I know what to do first - fuel tank, pump, lines, filters etc. renewed. Coupe tablespoons of Marvel Mystery Oil to sit in each cylinder for several days before starting. All new belts, hoses, especially timing. Oil & filter change, coolant change/flush soon after car is running well.

Car is in amazingly good condition and I'm hoping it will start easily once the fuel system is renewed.

Welcome more thoughts as you all have them.

With my '11 Cayman S, '76 914 and '80 931 - I think I'll have an outstanding and unusual Porsche NON-911 collection!

Posted by: Tdskip Oct 22 2021, 05:15 PM

The bird has a fairly active 94–944 community, I’m sure they’ll be happy to help out.

I’ve always liked the purity of the early design, if it makes you happy go for it and please do keep us posted

Posted by: JamesM Oct 22 2021, 06:43 PM

If it sounds good running on starting fluid that's a good sign, sounds like you may mainly be dealing with fueling system issues.


Thoughts...

A couple things that i remember when i brought mine back from the dead 7 or so years ago.

The fuel/vacuum system accounted for 90% of the work in getting it going again.

The car has 2 fuel pumps an external high pressure pump, and an in-tank pump with attached filter. The high pressure pump can be had fairly cheap and is no big deal to replace. The in tank pump on the other hand may have you questioning your life choices if you look at how much it costs (north of 800 bucks last time i looked). More bad news is that i hear the pumps available today have fitment issues in the 931 tanks as well. If the in tank pump has failed (which after 17 years it is almost surely frozen) you can get the car to start and idle, but it creates enough of a restriction that it impacts fueling under load. Thankfully is there a part from later 928s that can be used in place of this pump (928 201 081 04) however the nipple is larger so the fuel hose to the pump will need to be replaced as well.

The piston in the fuel distributor is most likely seized due to varnish. This is probably the most critical part of the fuel metering. Be careful getting it out as you wont want to scratch it at all.

The fuel filter installs in the reverse orientation of what you would think it would due to how the lines are routed.

There are I think 5 different formed rubber elbows in the intake system. I was able to still source them back when I got mine going, but last I looked many of them are now NLA everywhere so you may need to get creative. These have most likely cracked and all are critical for proper fuel control. the injection system on these things is very sensitive to vacuum and fuel pressure issues. One of the elbows is right off the turbo and more or less behind the water pump so plan on doing the water pump and timing belt as well as you have to go through those to get there.

Some some of the coolant hoses are shared with the NA 924 but a lot of the turbo specific coolant hoses are NLA.

931 coolant expansion tanks are (or at least were) extremely hard to come by however the VW scirocco tank is a very close fit and can be made to work.

There was a 931 specific vendor (ideola) around when i brought mine back that had a lot of cool bits for the 931 however he recently closed up shop. Not aware of many vendors that specifically cater to the 931 anymore. Thankfully Porsche has brought some of the more impossibly critical parts for this car back into production since then (see cam oiler elbow) though others like the air flow meter to turbo boot are still impossible to come by.

There is a group on facebook for 924 Carerra GTs/Turbos that I have found to be far more active than the 924 forums.

Start your hunt for a Canadian Speedometer now, the 85mph thing gets old real quick as the car easily buries the needle long before you even hit 5th gear. 160MPH speedos exist BUT the green gauges were 1 year only (like many of the 931 parts), all the US cars had the legally mandated 85 MPH speedos and all the Euro cars had KPH gauges so the green 160MPH gauges are like hens teeth. They do exist though

good luck. They are fun (and now EXTREAMLY rare cars). Seriously in 30+ years of Porsche obsession the only 931 I have ever personally seen on the road is mine. I have seen more people driving 959s and Carerra GTs.

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 22 2021, 07:25 PM

Mark -

Thanks for tip, but I'm committed. If I get this car running like new and fixed up - and don't like it - I'll look for a later model or even a 944 Turbo.

And sell this one at a profit.

What I like most about this 931 are it's being a Special Edition, its rarity, and my fav colors - silver & grey - and its price. Not likely to find all those in a newer model.

GN

Posted by: Jett Oct 22 2021, 07:26 PM

Love the car!

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 22 2021, 07:27 PM

Thanks Clay - I always appreciate and respect your input/feedback.

But see my reply to Mark....

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 22 2021, 07:28 PM

Jesse -

THANKS! Will do!

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 22 2021, 07:36 PM

James -

Wow - great list of tips - thank you. Glad to know you are there for 931 details. Watch out - I'll be pinging you I'm sure!

As to 2 - fuel pumps - from all I've read so far, that began in '81 and the earlier 931's only had the HP pump.

I'm not buying this car for its performance - I have both a Cayman S and 914 for that. I'm buying it for its rarity and great condition at a great price. Hey, a 914 is fairly rare in central VA - I get waves and thumbs up everywhere I go. And if RickB45 doesn't bring his sweet '72 914 (like new) to C&C - mine's the only one there.

GN

Posted by: wonkipop Oct 22 2021, 07:46 PM

nice buy @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21449

924 turbos are a rare sight these days in aus, imagine it is the same in the USA.
never driven one but i hear they go.
there used to be some trick to them with owners down here due to hot conditions in aus - you were advised after a long hard run not to shut down the engine straight away, but to let it idle for a while at rest - supposedly help preserve the turbo bearings.

the ones we got in aus were the euro spec versions with heaps of power.
enough to frighten you.

i have driven a plain jane 924 thirty years back. the na engine was nothing to jump up and down about the high speed handling and balance of the car was fantastic straight out of the box bone stock. under-rated car. there are a few 924S down here that were privately imported from the UK and still to this day are tightly held passing from owner to owner off the radar. love the styling of the 924 turbo, real cult car. it lost a bit when they pumped it up into the 944.

Posted by: JamesM Oct 22 2021, 09:46 PM

Granted I only have experience with the 1 car, but my 80 S1 car had both pumps

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 23 2021, 05:35 AM

Pop -

The idle cool down when hot is really important on all turbos and yes, not doing it will destroy turbo bearings. Pretty sure this is true on all turbos. I had turbo on my new '06 Chevy Silverado DURAMAX diesel - now worth more than what I sold it for in '11! And I have a John Deere 5045E tractor that is turbo diesel.

Most turbo owners know this - but too many do not.

Thanks!

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 23 2021, 05:37 AM

James -

Thanks for the correction. I'll be looking for the 2 fuel pumps. Have never liked in tank fuel pumps of any kind.

GN

Posted by: mb911 Oct 23 2021, 06:42 AM

Absolutely love that car. Would love to have one.

Posted by: Mayne Oct 23 2021, 07:00 AM

Also, check the Rennlist sub-forums for more good info on these cars.

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 23 2021, 04:20 PM

Ben -

Thinking I will too.

Jeremy -

Thanks for tip - I am Rennslist member.....and will do!

Interesting: here, there are 100 posts a day, or way more. On the 924board.org forum, looks like 1 post every 2 months!

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 24 2021, 06:03 AM

FOUND IT!

THE HOLY GRAIL!

Of "How to Resurrect a 924 Turbo"! In detail beyond my highest expectations!

https://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=22724



GN

Posted by: Tdskip Oct 24 2021, 06:22 AM

We are all hoping for lots of pictures and updates from you on this.

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 24 2021, 06:52 AM

TD -

And I CAN'T WAIT to get the car and send them!

While we are in the Lake Erie area, good friend RickB45 wants to look at a nice 944 in Detroit, & he just may drive it home if he likes it.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 24 2021, 06:56 AM

So keeping a 924 thread going wouldn't be considered "high-jacking" the very best forum on all the internet??????

GN

PS: The folks on the 924 forum, 924board.org, need to learn from everyone here on how to do a great forum......

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 26 2021, 08:51 PM

Well, the Seller of the 924 Turbo shafted me. Even tho we had a contract and I sent him $500.00.

Seller quit communicating with me 3 days ago. Didn't even have decency to contact me if he sold it to someone else - which I assume he did. I could make a lot of not-nice comments, but why? Was picking up car Friday or Sat.

Put Stop Payment on check tonight.

May have been a bad idea to post link here before I had the car, but I wanted feedback from the Brain Trust. Won't do that next time. Have seen others do it and thought it would be ok. But I have no idea if that was what happened.

Not upset. Maybe something major was wrong with the car - I'll never know. Moving on. Such is life. It's for the best.

Looking now for an 81 or later 931 now. No hurry.

Appreciate y'all keeping your eyes out for me.

GN

Posted by: wonkipop Oct 26 2021, 11:54 PM

what a bastard.

expand your possible options.
i hear the 924 S is also a real good car.
good luck with further searching.

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 27 2021, 06:04 AM

Yes, 924 S is in the search. Has the Porsche balanced engine.

But I do like the rarity of the Turbo.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 27 2021, 06:28 AM

Stand by

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 27 2021, 06:29 AM

well that sucks. i wonder how many other $500 deposits he tried to take in ,
i would certainly post this on the 924 forum just ans we would here for a 914 scumbag seller, help protect the naïve and innocent -

i am sure you can find something better now that they are on your radar, i'm sure you will find one,

Posted by: mb911 Oct 27 2021, 06:33 AM

Well that sucks.. I know there is a 931 specialty shop about 45 minutes south of me.

There was also one repainted a different color local to me but I have to many projects now. The 928 is consuming my time and funds.

Posted by: Mayne Oct 27 2021, 06:42 AM

Sorry to hear the deal fell through! Check out my brother’s auction before it ends later today. Rare color, sport seats, recent maintenance.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284497000564?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11051.m43.l1465&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=40d42e61039147b4a7ddddd206041b6b&bu=43193907019&osub=-1~1&crd=20211021095139&segname=11051&sojTags=ch%3Dch%2Cbu%3Dbu%2Cosub%3Dosub%2Ccrd%3Dcrd%2Csegname%3Dsegname%2Cchnl%3Dmkcid

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 27 2021, 08:22 AM

Mayne -

WHERE is the car?

Thanks,

GN

Posted by: Mayne Oct 27 2021, 09:19 AM

Albuquerque NM, if you meant its physical location.

Posted by: JamesM Oct 27 2021, 11:09 AM

Wow that sucks. Didnt realize there was interest/a market for them. When I got my 931 you practically had to give them away. That was actually the only reason I picked mine up, the guy was walking distance from my house and gave me an offer I couldn't refuse before I literally pushed the car home.

Seriously though, if you are set on a 931, dont limit your search to just the 81 (S2,S3) cars, and be sure to read up on the situation with the flywheel sensors before you get into an 81 as that is a huge headache that you avoid going with an 80. Think I saw somewhere that someone was looking at producing a replacement but dont know if that has happened yet, otherwise, if that sensor dies your car becomes permanent yard art.

Posted by: Chris H. Oct 27 2021, 12:12 PM

Man that sucks. Sorry to hear, but you will probably end up with something better if it doesn't work out. Personally I'd rather have an 87/88 924S. Much easier to work on and more desirable. 924 body, 944 engine.

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 27 2021, 04:26 PM

James -

Yes, I read about that sensor and its failing. No, don't want that.

Deal on '80 has been resurrected. Seller now wants to do it again.

We'll see.

GN

Posted by: mb911 Oct 27 2021, 05:22 PM

Wow. Crazy. Hope it works out

Posted by: wonkipop Oct 28 2021, 12:50 AM

esoteric detail.
original 924 prototype, when it was still a VW project - had central tach as per porsche trad.

you have to look hard at the photo but you can see it.

wonder why they didn't go through with that on the later production porsche version.

Posted by: VaccaRabite Oct 28 2021, 07:24 AM

Oh man.
What you are telling me is throwing red flags on the seller. Proceed with caution to be sure. Maybe cash only at this point. It kinda sounds like he was after collecting the deposit and reengaged when you stopped payment for the check. Show up in person with a trailer.
Best of luck. I think they are super cool cars and I hope this works out for you!
Zach

Posted by: Root_Werks Oct 28 2021, 10:53 AM

If the deal is a possible again, show up with trailer and cash. Even then I've had to walk away. I remember one deal the guy handed me a registration and said "here's the title".

Umm, no.

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 28 2021, 09:14 PM

I totally don't get it either. ONLY place for the tach in a Porsche is in the center.

Rest of the car? Way cool!

Deal proceeding smoothly. Delay in pickup on our end - next Friday. Taking cash and trailer.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 28 2021, 09:17 PM

Zach -

I think I know what happened but don't want to say it until car is in my possession.

No, he has truly been in NYC with family for week - he couldn't cash my check - didn't even know it had arrived. We have a binding contract once he cashed my check.

He is back on board enthusiasticly saying he never was not on board. He was just out of touch.

So much about this car I love.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 28 2021, 09:29 PM

Guys -

I've never entered into a deal knowing more than I do about this car.

Again, two friends, one a mechanic, went over the car in every detail, sent me 7 videos of closeup everything. Mechanic said engine sounded smooth and great. I have video of it starting right up and running.

This is 924 Turbo #201 out of first 600 to USA. All were silver/dolomite grey, Pasha interior, Weissach wheels. It was made in 6/1979, sold on May 25th, 1980. This info from PORSCHE and here (translated):

https://translate.yandex.com/translate?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwerk924.com%2Fliste-der-sondermodell%2F924-turbo-einfuehrungsmodell%2F&lang=de-en

Front Pasha seats replaced with full leather - I'm good with that. Rear seats are Pasha.

No wreck damage, almost no rust other than bottom of front left quarter panel, which appears minor. Seller had car undercoated when he got it about 1985. Videos of underside look good. Looks like original paint. Condition good.

A member of the 924 forum from Sweden has ALL THE ORIGINAL PORSCHE FACTORY MANUALS ONLINE FOR DOWNLOAD - IN ENGLISH. And I have them all.

Seller is fully onboard, providing answers to all my questions, insists he's so glad car is going to someone who knows what it is and wants to restore it and drive it.

We were to pick car up Saturday but weather and things on our end prevent our getting car until next Friday - it is an 8 hour drive away.

Stand by and I'll keep everyone posted. But don't want to load this great 914 board with 931 stuff. (931 is Porsche's internal number for the 924 Turbo).

GN

Posted by: Chris H. Oct 29 2021, 07:01 AM

Sounds like it'll work out! You can definitely keep posting about your new 931 in this thread or start a new build/resto thread. Many have non-914 threads. I had a Vanagon one going for a while...

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 29 2021, 08:02 AM

Thanks Chris!

Posted by: JamesM Oct 29 2021, 08:45 AM

I have both a Vanagon and a 931.

Fun fact, they share some of the same parts.

Posted by: Root_Werks Oct 29 2021, 10:01 AM

Keep us posted! If this works out, it'll be a score.

Posted by: Gatornapper Oct 29 2021, 09:04 PM

Having restored a 914, and knowing the VW history of the 924, no surprise there.

I know the gas cap is VW - and many other parts as well.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 5 2021, 07:17 PM

Well guys! It happened! Picked up the sweet 924 Turbo in Cleveland early this am and brought it home tonight - long drive my self, because we picked up Rick's incredible '85 944 in Detroit last night and he drove it home after helping me load the 924.



Happy with what I bought - now have my work cut out for me. Very pleased with condition of car for my money.

First new timing belt, idler pulley, other belt. Then completely renew fuel system - lines to injectors are shot. Lots of work there.

Once I get it running, all new fluids.

Will be a slow project as I can get to it and no urgency - will be a little at at time as I always have 100 projects going on at the same time. At 76, one has to stay busy!

GN

PS: Rick's sweet 944 next......

I'll keep you all posted.

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 6 2021, 01:55 AM

well done mate.

Posted by: mb911 Nov 6 2021, 06:10 AM

Awesome.. can't wait to see the progress..

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 6 2021, 07:45 AM

Will be a slow project, other things going on.

Once engine is running well first thing I'll do is install the M471 package that is found on almost all 1980 931's - this one is actually a 1979 made in June of '79, tho indeed recorded by Porsche as a 1980 model and was sold new in May of 1980, is titled as a 1980.

"The M471 package came with 5-bolt hubs, Turbo 4-wheel disc brakes, 15″ ATS mesh wheels, Koni sport shocks, Euro Turbo 23/14mm sway bars, and the Turbo rear spoiler. Early models also came with a special “S” decal on the hood. "

There is actually a 1980 parts car on FB Marketplace in Richmond with the M471 pkg, but the owner will not respond to messages about the ad for some reason. And wants $2k for a parts car that has been sitting outdoors for 10 years.

Since I know what the parts are, might be easier to add them individually. Wheels like car has now but 5-lug may be difficult to find. Hello eBay.

Will keep you posted.

GN

Posted by: mb911 Nov 6 2021, 10:32 AM

My dad had that package on his 80 924 turbo.. might have been an 81 been a long time

Posted by: Tdskip Nov 6 2021, 02:38 PM

Congratulations

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Nov 6 2021, 03:22 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21449 Anthoni (924 guru) over in Oregon says hi, he's one of our header (924 n/a) customer's ; says that you found a decent 931 ! He uses our n/a race header on a modified 931 cyl head.

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 7 2021, 07:42 AM

Ben -

Ah-ha! you got your Porsche genes when you were born......

You had no choice!

GN

Posted by: GBX0073 Nov 7 2021, 03:39 PM

Wow looks even better on YOUR Trailer taking it Home
I can feel the excitement
Cant Help but feel Thankful for you
Sums up the Joy's in Life
Thank you for Sharing

Posted by: mb911 Nov 7 2021, 04:28 PM

Yup dad had 3 356s 2 912s 1 931 and then a bunch of MGs and triumphs

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 7 2021, 06:33 PM

Thanks Skip.

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 7 2021, 06:39 PM

Falcon -

Anthoni has been helping me a lot on the 924 forum. Great guy.

Once car is running well and on road, I'll be looking for some mods to improve HP/Torque, but doubt that headers will be on that list due to $$$.

Want to keep car fairly stock but add M471 pkg. items.

Thanks!

Only problem is this being one of the best car forums on the planet, I'm spoiled by all the great help here.

Only 3 or 4 have stepped up on the 924 board, Anthoni being one. Another, Cedric, in Sweden had ALL original Porsche Shop Manuals in ENGLISH for download! The guys that have jumped in to help all race their cars I think.......what a great resource.

Wish I had the same for my 914.......

GN

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Nov 7 2021, 08:46 PM

M471 option list for the 924 Turbo does sound intriguing ! Please list the goodies when you can / or pM me on message board .

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 8 2021, 10:16 AM

M471 group:

"At an early point in the production it was decided that the car's power required improvement in other areas. So, the 931 “....was built with a limited-slip differential, leather upholstery, air conditioning, power windows, a lift-out sunroof and the coveted M471 "S" Sport Group Package, which included four-wheel internally ventilated disc brakes on five-bolt hubs, mounting forged 16 x 6-inch 928-style alloys (up from cast 15 x 6s). Also included were upgraded springs and Koni shocks, 23mm front and 14mm rear anti-roll bars, a different steering ratio and a leather-wrapped 911SC steering wheel.”

My car has leather front seats and leather-wrapped 911SC steering wheel. Haven't measured sway bars yet.

Local junk car had all this, but sold. Sat outdoors for 10 years. Looking for parts car with this package - and almost ALL 1980 931's had it. Mine is extra rare in that it did not...mine manufactured in 6/79, so in many ways it was a '79 model, but was sold on 5/26/80 and recorded by Porsche as a 1980 model.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 8 2021, 01:09 PM

Just digging into car today. More good news.

Front sway bar is 23mm and rear is 14mm. Another item to check off list that is not needed. Now wondering if it also has upgraded springs and Koni shocks.......

Car does also have leather front seats in very good condition and leather-wrapped steering wheel. When I get it on the lift I'll check steering ratio to see which it is, but that is not a big deal to me. Limited slip diff? Now that would be huge!

Also has A/C, power windows, a lift-out sunroof.

GN

Posted by: JamesM Nov 8 2021, 01:46 PM

924 turbos are rare to being with, but yeah, most if not all 1980 models I have seen did have the M471 package, mine does. Seen the 4 bolt setup a lot more on the 79s, perhaps you have a late 79 production 80 model year car? Hard to say, These cars went though so many mid year production changes with limited production numbers across a 3 year period its hard to say what is "normal"

Is your car missing rear seatbelts?

If I recall, one advantage to having the 4 bolt setup is that you are dealing with cheaper VW parts, where as the M471 package parts have porsche PNs (911 SC brake bits if i recall correctly)

EDIT: Just read your early post stating a 6/79 production date... guessing that's why its 4 bolt

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Nov 8 2021, 02:59 PM

That's one nice M471 upgrade list @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21449 , thanks for digging it up ! This is the 937 (924gtr #0008) that we recently sold. The 2 car (sale package) came with this car and the Sonauto #40 LeMans car. We were only after the 9146...so had a good offer on the GTR, but broke my heart to see her go

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 8 2021, 04:36 PM

Cannot believe you let that very rare and priceless car go! Had to be for a small fortune!

I can only admire from a distance.....with great respect..........

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 8 2021, 04:44 PM

James -

Yes, build date of 6/79, but registered by Porsche as 1980 model and put in service/sold on 5/25/1980.

Delighted to find today that my sway bars are indeed 23mm & 14mm.

And yes, think rear seats have no seat belts.

Spoke to another Porsche 931 expert today who said the front brakes are the same on 4-bolt and 5-bolt, but are single piston calipers and to convert to 2-piston 944 calipers.

I don't mind cost of rear disc brakes. Car needs them. Finding them will be a challenge. May go for 944 parts there as well.

GN

[quote name='JamesM' date='Nov 8 2021, 02:46 PM' post='2958546']
924 turbos are rare to being with, but yeah, most if not all 1980 models I have seen did have the M471 package, mine does. Seen the 4 bolt setup a lot more on the 79s, perhaps you have a late 79 production 80 model year car? Hard to say, These cars went though so many mid year production changes with limited production numbers across a 3 year period its hard to say what is "normal"

Is your car missing rear seatbelts?

If I recall, one advantage to having the 4 bolt setup is that you are dealing with cheaper VW parts, where as the M471 package parts have porsche PNs (911 SC brake bits if i recall correctly)

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Nov 8 2021, 09:30 PM

These GTRs' were Turbo/ MFI, and on decel the rich fuel mixture threw a decent flame under the drivers door

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 8 2021, 09:44 PM

nice. (flame and GTR).

---

got me curious enough to check out 924s for sale in aus.
usually just beaters.
suddenly there are two turbos for sale.

one of them looks to be outstanding. a uk car that has come in.
that makes 924 turbos officially an international market car?

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1982-porsche-924-turbo-manual/SSE-AD-6154479/?Cr=0

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Nov 9 2021, 01:02 AM

Michael,
that's a pristine 924 turbo for sale, dealer service records, once owned by Peter John Vetesse...keyboard musician with Jethro Tull ; good looking deal !

Posted by: JamesM Nov 9 2021, 01:49 AM

What you have there appears to be a 932... for sure don't see those everyday.

Posted by: JamesM Nov 9 2021, 02:22 AM

Wow, so this is pretty interesting, just browsing through the 1979 924 PET

https://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/originalparts/en/E_924_79_KATALOG.pdf

Indeed the rear setup has 944 part numbers. Interesting in that the 944 didnt go into production until 1982. I would think those are going to be really easy to come by given how many 944s were trashed.

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 9 2021, 03:40 AM

yes i kind of figured that marty.
but i don't have the spare 40 odd K. (which is actually a bargain no?).
its funny what turns up here in australia sometimes.
i think it might be one of the best 924 turbos left in the world?
but what can i do.
i blame gatornapper for throwing me off course.
i'm just going to have to stop the distraction.
someone will get hold of that car and look after it.

i do like 924s. i drove a dumbo na one years ago.
they are pretty good cranked out to 95-100mph on a straight stretch of Western Australian highway heading north of perth going up and down over gentle sand dune undulations on a ribbon of narrow bitumen. one of those memories driving thats stuck in my head.

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 9 2021, 03:43 AM

stop - don't wind me up.
i've got my hands full.

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 9 2021, 05:33 PM

Wonki -

Now I'm really puzzled. "932" ?????? Never have seen that anywhere.

With a build date of 6/79 it is one very early Turbo, barely an '80 model. All I've read says it is a 931.

What is 932 and where can I find that?

Thanks!

GN

Posted by: mb911 Nov 9 2021, 05:43 PM

I am thinking he is messing with you. Attached is images of a 932

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 9 2021, 05:48 PM

gator - JamesM is referring to the right hand drive model no. for the turbo.
LHD = 931. RHD = 932. a lot less RHD cars than LHD?

the main point i suppose is its uk spec = euro spec.
note the 5 bolts.
not a despeced engine as initial usa turbos were.

i'm not sure but i don't think these came to australia early on.
don't know enough.
but that one is a uk car that has been privately imported here under the 25 year rule more recently. it will probably go back to the UK?
might be a post covid lockdown "forced" sale.
there is a lot of career change going on and the country is opening up again so folks that want to get out are getting out and heading for europe for work and jobs.
i've noticed a few things popping out of the woodwork all of a sudden.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 - James M is not messing - not as far as i know.
though your illustration of a concept 932 is interesting.
sometimes these numbers were internal designations and got used twice.
but i have heard of the 932 in reference to the turbo.
certainly i might be how they designated it in the parts book.
odd number as last number of first three number code usually meant the LHD version.
even number meant RHD. very definitely when it came to VW.
lets not forget these were built in a VW factory out of the VW parts bin (at least for the 924).

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 9 2021, 06:20 PM

i had a check of wiki.
just to see.
not that it is necessarily accurate but.....

wiki notes the 924 turbo was referred to as a 931.
rhd specific parts were designated with 932 prefix.

one of those cases where enthusiasts like to use the internal designations given to the models by porsche and then it slips into common use?
for instance i can't really remember anyone calling 924 turbos by the name 931 or 932 back in the 80s. they were just 924 turbos.
but 931 has come to be used?
maybe an american practice?

there would be a lot of parts specific to any RHD 924 given its front engine when compared to the older air cooled cars and using a different first three letter prefix was very definitely a VW practice. its not something you come across with 914s as there were no RHD cars. at most it might have been a part # for headlights for cars that went to the UK or Japan.

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 9 2021, 06:42 PM

Guys -

Found the same on 932 search. RHD.

I have determined mine is #201 of first 600 USA Turbos made - AND went to Puerto Rico. I think all the "Introductory Models" were Diamond Silver Metallic (L97A) on upper half, Dolomite Grey Metallic (LY7V) on the lower half, with Pasha interior.

Yes, these days the Porsche folk all refer to the 924 Turbo as the 931, as it was Porsche's internal number for the car.

In addition to stock, mine has the following Options: Right and left exterior power mirrors, removeable sunroof, 23mm & 14mm sway bars (like M471 Pkg), rear wiper, electric windows, and A/C. And Fog Lights that mounted below the bumper instead of in the bumper like the EUR cars.

I'm thinking of keeping the 15" ATS wheels and rear drum brakes as they were standard in the Introduction Models. One more part of its rarity.

What do you all think?

GN

GN

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 9 2021, 09:45 PM

i hadn't realised the turbos are quite a small production no.
just over 13.5K cars total production.

drive it a bit and see what its like.

its a pretty subtle upgrade visually.
i take it you swap over to a 5 bolt version of virtually the same looking wheels?
and all the goodies are under the skin.

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 10 2021, 01:17 AM

you got me going gator.

there is another one for sale here.
aus delivery.
half the $
i think it might be a better car.
i'm starting to get maybe half interested.

i've studied the uk car, its got all the docs etc/rock star owner.
but looking close its got fresh paint on the front half of the car.
had a hit and repair? somethings happened. paint tone is different and decal too.

this one looks half promising. again not your usual beater 924.
its in my state too, looks like its just up country somewhere.

might have to go have a look.

https://www.justcars.com.au/cars-for-sale/1981-porsche-924-turbo-coupe/JCM5011179

Posted by: mb911 Nov 10 2021, 03:02 PM

I like that one.

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 10 2021, 03:51 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892

it does look clean but i think there is something funny.
don't know my 924s well enough to spot things straight away.

but its got US bumpers!

aus cars look like this. V
euro bumpers and also flank indicators on the front guards.

sounds crazy but it could be a US car that has been imported and converted to RHD.
which seems like a crazy thing to do - when they made them RHD.

still might be worth a look.

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 10 2021, 07:32 PM

Wow. Didn't mean to influence you!

Yes, those are US bumpers - and I much prefer the Euro ones and will be looking for one sometime. No idea how the US bumpers would get on a RHD car.

Never seen one priced that high. A sweet GT clone here in great running and looking condition just went for $11k.....but had 34 k miles.

Finding putting rear disc brakes & 5-lug hubs in easy - but the front is major and huge, needing the brake master cylinder and booster. And don't add anything significant to ust handling. As you said, I'll drive the car and see.

Keep us posted on what you do.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 10 2021, 08:19 PM

Great 924 resource - actually great Porsche resource......

The whole story........

https://www.stuttcars.com/porsche-models/924/

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 10 2021, 08:32 PM

Today I drove RickB45's '85 944 we picked up in Detroit Thursday on our road trip - what a gem he found. 123k miles, owned by Porsche mechanics with all new almost everything, and truly felt like a new car.

We trailered it from Detroit to Cleveland, and then he drove it home from there. He was so stunned with the car driving home he had to call me every 15 minutes (well - seemed like it) to describe how incredible the car is.

Only the 2nd 944 I've driven - other one was junk - this was so sweet - neutral handling was amazing. Ride and handling in hard, rough twisties was amazing too. Quantum leap by Porsche from '70's 914's to eighties 924's & 944's - they are truly like modern cars in every way.

Car came will all documentation and maintenance records since new!

Here tis:



GN

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 11 2021, 01:35 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21449 .

don't forget 20K aud = 14.5K usd.
generally prices for porsches are lower in the USA than aus.
i think also the 924 turbo is a lot rarer in aus than in the USA - they tend to be worth a bit - i think - as most were/are well maintained.

bog ordinary 924s here have been driven into the ground.
most are beaters every bit as bad as a poor condition usa car.
i see them go for 1.5 - 2 K aud.

as to the other one with the asking price of 40+, well i guess its possibly an exceptional car.

if i get a bit of spare time and the 20K car doesn't sell in the meantime, i might just go take a look at it as i am curious about what it is. be strange if someone has converted a USA turbo to RHD. but a lot of 911s did come in during the late 80s and 90s and were converted to RHD so its possible that is the story with the 924 turbo. one thing its got going for it is the interior looks intact. most 924s exploded inside because of the sun down here.

i did miss out on a 924S a little while back. and my memory might be wrong but i think it ended up selling for 13K which i think was a bargain. but it was a uk car so it might have been dodgy under the make-up?

have fun.

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 11 2021, 09:30 AM

Wonki -

I cannot imaging the cost of converting a LHD car to RHD. Hard to believe. Very strange about bumper.

Seems like a super-clean car and worth checking out. A drive in it should settle a decision.......I myself have never driven any 924, let alone a Turbo. But then I had never driven a 914 before buying mine, and when I got it on the road, had to be one of the most pleasant and joyful surprises of my life! And not only was the 914 a joy to drive, it is extremely comfortable and great ride on highways at 70+ mph.....as all 914'ers know.

Will the 924 be such a surprise? I doubt it. But I know I'll like it if at all like my friend Rick's 944.

924 Turbos are indeed very rare here. I've never seen one nor have my Porsche friends. But seems I've infected others as well as you - for some are now looking. I hope they don't find. I got mine a lot because of its rarity - and would like to be the only one in central Virginia......pretty selfish of me, huh?

GN

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 11 2021, 05:16 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21449 .

converting cars to RHD from LHD is something that used to be well established in aus since the 1950s.

even the major car manufacturers did it.
i believe the first batch of mustangs sent to aus in the 1960s were subcontracted out by ford to a local specialist in sydney. the cars were sold with full warranty by ford.

holden also did it with the big chevs. which were sourced from canada. the components were made by GM canada including a right hand drive dashboard. but the cars were assembled in final form down here.

there were specialist guys everywhere that converted other USA models on an import basis.

converting a 911 to RHD is not that hard apparently. very straightforward.

the difference in price for a second hand 911 sourced in the USA during the 1980s and 1990s justified the cost of conversion. it worked out cheaper than buying one here at that time, even second hand. 911s have generally held on to high values here.
stratospheric now.

914s are another story. more difficult conversion as it required extensive mods to front firewall/fuel tank and basically a hand made dash. there were moulds in fibreglass floating around.

a mate of mine has a speedster that was exported here some time in the late 1970s and is converted to RHD. people did that because there were not many speedsters here and they were hard to find. so you went to the USA and got one, because thats where most of them were. probably nearly the entire population of speedsters resided in one state, california.

a 924 would be entirely doable. as there were RHD parts to source including the dash etc.

if the conversion was done by a reputable shop it would be a good job.

i'll take a look at it if its still around when i get some time.


as to driving a 924. i used to go out with a chick who had one in WA.
it was an N A model. not much fun around town as the engine really is a bit lack lustre. but out on the open road and wound up it was a whole other thing. just as balanced as a 914, maybe even more. certainly it did not suffer from high speed nose lift like the 914. when i lived in WA back then you got plenty of opportunities to drive as fast as you wanted on wide open empty roads, no other traffic. i discovered the 914 started lifting the nose at around 95mph. 924 just stayed planted all the way well past a 100mph. think we might have pegged out at about 110 mph. it took a while to get there but once you got it up there it would have sat at that speed all day long.

it might be why you have got me interested again as i am remembering the car.

trouble is there really is nowhere in my state these days you can drive at that speed.
if you got caught they would burn your license, throw you in jail and crush the car.

the only thing i remember about 924s that is a negative is they developed a lot of rattles in the body work. especially the tailgates etc. owners complained a lot about it back in the day here. porsches were not supposed to rattle.

i also remember the steering wheel. it was a real crush to get you legs in under it.
and it spun concentrically, a sort of planetary motion. when you were parking the car the wheel would dig into your legs.

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 11 2021, 08:49 PM

Wonki -

Lotsa priceless info in your post. Thank you. Never had my 914 over 80 so I know nothing of its problems at speed - my love of the car is in the twisties that are predominant where I live below 55mph. For anything above 55, that's where my '11 Cayman S shines!

I can't wait to get my 931 on the road. Drove my friend RickB45's new-to-him 85 944 yesterday and loved its neutral handling, great ride, great shifting - everything. Not sure how an '80 931 will compare. I do know my 931 has the large 23mm front and 14mm rear sway bars - so I'm looking forward to that. I doubt the 944 has such large sway bars.

Got the car on my lift today and all looks great underneath. Owner had car undercoated in mid-80's. I am very pleased.

While the 944 yesterday handled great in the curves, it wasn't quite as flat as my 914 - which doesn't have sway bars! Yet!.... that is! That was one of my winter projects that will now wait on how well the 931 is doing.

GN

Posted by: wonkipop Nov 11 2021, 09:08 PM

i'm a bit mellower with age than i used to be.

doubt i could find anywhere these days to wind out the 914. it takes so long to get it up to the ton that you are bound to run into trouble with the law or run out of road. its only a 1.8

i managed to squeeze it up to just a tad over 80 mph back in march on a country run on a bit of empty road where i could see any cops hiding behind trees or speed cameras in the back of parked SUVs on the side of the road. also no other traffic to endanger. no float at that speed which it gets too with minimal fuss. starts to hit the wall somewhere just north of that and takes forever to get to so called top speed. fastest i ever got it to was just over the ton in WA back in the 90s. but it was floating around and i wasn't feeling it with a grin.
might have had something to do with the half shot boges that were still on it then.

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 12 2021, 05:09 PM

Yeah, age does mellow us. I'm 76 but still go 100mph all day every day.

Well, maybe 90 now.....but I do collapse and pass out once about every month......get up and go at it again.....but hey! At doc visit yesterday morning my BP was 120/78!

Not bad for an overweight (but former runner til I was 69) guy who had open heart surgery 12 years ago with a triple bypass and aortic valve replacement.........

GN

Posted by: sixnotfour Nov 12 2021, 06:05 PM

84-85 ,,I would buy em for the Fuchs $750 , Sell em, Pic n Pull $650 no wheels.. yr 2009

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 17 2021, 06:01 PM

Any 924 Turbo owners here, I could use your help.

Cannot get the timing belt cover off - all unbolted, loose, cannot get out. Also a major belt clearance problem between intake manifold beneath fuel distributor and the water pump - less that thickness of water pump belt.

See here for my questions:

https://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=407984#407984

TIA,

GN

Posted by: mb911 Nov 17 2021, 06:26 PM

I seem to remember my dad taking the turbo off the car for the timing belt job. it is pretty in depth.

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 17 2021, 08:06 PM

Ben -

ARGHHHHH!!! I hope not! Taking fuel distributor off now to move it an inch or two forward - hoping that may do it........

Thanks.

GN

Posted by: infraredcalvin Nov 17 2021, 10:16 PM

Funny, all this 924 talk and look what I found I’m my bag of stuff that came with my -6…





Anybody have a Weissach Ed?

Posted by: JamesM Nov 17 2021, 11:24 PM

Its been a couple years since I did mine but i remember it being more difficult than you would expect to get that stupid cover off, probably why most pictures of peoples cars they are not reinstalled. I don't remember the exact process but more has to come out than you would think. Pretty sure the turbo charge tube has to come off, but for sure the turbo itself does not (which is good as I hear pulling the turbo is so difficult that a lot of people just pull the motor, but haven't attempted it myself yet)

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 19 2021, 04:18 PM

Ok, Calvin.

I can match those: The "Introductory Model" - only 600 made, mine #201 -









GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 22 2021, 06:47 PM

I you are thinking of getting a 924 Turbo, be prepared for finding engine work very difficult. The turbo and its associated parts are so jammed in the engine bay that working on anything up there is a BEAR.

NOT your normal everyday wrenching.......you'll be spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to get to parts, and how to remove 10 parts to get to the one you have to work on.

The 914 was a joy by comparison.

GN

Posted by: windforfun Nov 22 2021, 06:54 PM

Didn't the 944 use a piston counterbalancing design that was licensed from Mitsubishi (IIRC).

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 19 2021, 08:10 AM

Correct. They hated doing that but much less expensive than developing their own. Somewhere I read it was like $11/car.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 19 2021, 08:31 AM

Been a while since my last post on my progress on the 924T, or 931 ask known by owners.

Golly - where to start?

New timing belt, idler pulley, water pump, coolant, K&N air filter, spark plugs (wires, dizzy cap & rotor later - look good for now).

Removing timing belt cover a nightmare, almost impossible, on Turbo 924's. Several day job. Had to bend parts of it to get it off - then took snips to cover and cut off offending sections.

Some PO had converted fog light switch to secret kill switch killing power to fuel pump. Eliminated that wiring. When I find some original fog lights I'll run them as DRL's w/LEDs as on my 914.

Adjusted valves - another nightmare - far too complex to explain here - like nothing I've ever seen. Very difficult. A tiny 3mm allen screw in cam follower that's very difficult has to be rotated 360 deg. to change lash by .002" Almost impossible with Allen "L" wrench - but doable with difficulty. Surprising lack of detail on web and in Haynes manual.

All new rear brake assemblies, bled and adjusted - yes, they are drum.

New clutch master and slave cylinders, bled and working fine - first time I've had clutch since I picked up the car. Bolts on master cylinder impossible to reach. Starter had to come off to replace the slave. 2 - 19mm bolts holding starter in (original I think) took 100 ft.lbs. to break loose and then 50 ft.lbs. to turn for all but last threads. All renewed now.

Fuel system completely flushed & clean, all systems looking good. New fuel pump, in-tank filter replacing original in-tank fuel pump, line hoses, filter, and rebuilt fuel tank sending unit.

Injectors clogged. Soaked in Berryman's Chem Dip Carb cleaner for hour, then in ultrasonic cleaner with no success. Finally put the Berryman's in the ultrasonic cleaner and ran each injector for an hour and got them unclogged.

BUT, spray pattern on 3 out of 4 was not good, so had to order 4 new ones from Pelican. $176 ea. from Porsche, got them for $61 ea. So, all new fuel injectors. They are mechanical, not electrical. New to me.

Fixed a lot of small things like rear lights - corrosion on galvanized metal panels holding all lamps prevented many from working - now fixed.

New rear hatch strut. Lots off missing small parts replaced thanks to both Pelican and Auto Atlanta.

I'm probably missing something, but this is most of it. Been getting help from 3 guys on 924board.org, one in Sweden who provided me with all factory shop manuals in English in PDF format. Yay. But while the Germans have great engineering, the way they organize their info is plain weird - and alien.

Still very pleased with condition of this car - it is excellent and I can't wait to drive it. Hope to get engine running this week. Will try to add pics later.

Will let you all know.

GN

Posted by: JamesM Dec 19 2021, 12:51 PM

So you probably are not going to be happy to here this but...

There are a number of rubber vacuum elbows that are probably going to need to be replaced as vacuum leaks are a huge issue with these cars running properly.

Most of them are NLA now so you will need to get creative.

Worse though is that there is one that come offs the turbo and if I recall was somewhat blocked by the water pump/easier with the water pump out.

Don't worry though, the timing belt and water pump come off far easier the second time... ask me how i know.

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 19 2021, 01:47 PM

James -

Thank you. I know how you know. Is not experience the best teacher?

I was forewarned about the vacuum hoses in advance, but mine look so good I decided to take the risk on them. A guy on the 924 forum sourced a place that has silicone hoses that can replace the originals. Flexible enough to handle most of the original tight bends.

Yes, doing most complex things a 2nd time takes half the time, the 3rd time a 1/4, and so on.

AND I intentionally left OFF the timing belt cover for the very reason you mentioned. And that is half the battle there with the belt.

Keep the suggestions coming James - I'm one who appreciates them.

And I'll keep it posted here how it goes with the vacuum hoses........

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 19 2021, 04:26 PM

Few pics for Post #110:

Camshaft with followers underneath:



Follower beneath cam above valve - hole in follower is end of 3mm Allen screw that indicates which thickness it is. To access Allen end, you have to rotate follower 180 deg. and insert Allen wrench in opposite end. This pic is rotated 180 deg. from above pic.



And here is the Allen screw. Adjusted, flat side is always down, face on the end of the valve. Each rotation of screw changes thickness, and thus lash, .002". Screw IN (CW) for less lash, OUT (CCW) for more lash. Kind of hard to grasp until you see it. Screw is about 1" long:



And here is a pic of how the Allen wrench fits in the follower. I used an "L" wrench, not the one in the pic.



You can see you can only rotate the Allen wrench one face at a time (1/6th turn, 60 deg.). That makes an adjustment of .002" divided by 6.

914 valve adjustment is tight - but so much easier.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 28 2021, 06:37 PM

[/u]JUST POSSIBLY THE BIGGEST AND MOST WONDERFUL SURPRISE OF MY LIFE!







Friday through Sunday 931 would start but not run for more than a few seconds. Yesterday it would not start at all. Put my frustration level at a 12 on a 10-pt. scale.

Today about noon I double-checked some things, and thought, well, might as well try one more time.

Not only did the engine start immediately, I was able - barely - to keep it limping along pumping the accel pedal furiously. I thought, oh! If I could just keep it running! Well, I did. Or it did. BARELY running, missing like crazy, revs up, almost to zero, up, zero and so on.

BUT I KEPT IT RUNNING FOR 3 or 4 minutes and SHAZAM!!! all of a sudden the engine hits some smooth spots! Intermittent, but very noticeable and significant! So I just kept it running....and all of a sudden, after 5 to 7 minutes the engine begins running smoothly as I keep it about 2,000 RPM.

Surely if I let it drop to idle, it will die. NO! I let it drop to idle and the engine PURRS!

THE LONGER I RAN IT, THE BETTER IT RAN! But I figured what it needs now is 2 cans of Seafoam. Whatever was clogging up the CIS was being broken free and the system getting cleansed. Do I dare take it on road??????? Why not?

I called my insurance company, added the car, threw an Antique tag on the back and called my Porsche friend Rick who came right over. (Rick found the 931 for me, a Porsche genius, has 356 replica, Concours '72 914, almost like-new '85 944 and '04 911.)

Totally amazed, we drove out on the highway with the engine running like new! So we put it through its paces, and it is running flawlessly! EVERYTHING IS WORKING! Temp stayed perfect, fans working. I had already gotten all the lights working. Tranny and suspension are great! Car is TIGHT!!! It's almost like a new car - other than the hatch rattle in the back.

So Rick and I spent a good 30-40 minutes thrashing the 931, and it is doing all things well! Well, the steering is quite an effort as I'm used to my 914. But the Turbo kicks in nicely, smoothly, and sweetly adds its power!

From a long history of working on cars, trucks, motorcycles, I thought it would be months before I'd get the 931 to where it is today.

I consider it a miracle.

Now just can't wait to see what some new tires and Bilsteins will do for the car!

I could not be a happier 931 owner!

GN

Posted by: 914Sixer Dec 28 2021, 06:45 PM

Good for you

Posted by: JamesM Dec 28 2021, 07:03 PM

Not sure if i asked/mentioned that you will probably want to clean the fuel distributor/specifically the metal plunger fuel meter thingy really well.

Mine did the same thing when i first brought it back to life, the fuel meter rod was seized in its bore. Lots of soaking in cleaners and manually manipulating the shaft until it smoothly fell out of the bore took care of most of the issues.

If the fuel distributor was gummed up chances are your fuel accumulator may be shot as well. Replacing that made a HUGE difference for me in starting. Mine starts/restarts on the first compression stroke pretty much every time now. Its probably worth removing and inspecting/cleaning up the WUR as well as the fuel varnish is going to be everywhere in the system. Seafoam/cleaners in the fuel may be enough to take care of that though and its a little more difficult to get to, so maybe take a wait and see approach there.


For being the "Low end" Porsche it is surprising how tight and solid 931s feel when coming from a 914. I describe my 80 as feeling like a cross between a 914 and a 951. Still has the rawness of a 914 with the dog leg 931 and no power steering, but the comfort of a 944... and then BOOST!!!

Seriously if your car doesn't already have one look at getting a manual boost controller. Just upping the turbo pressure a couple PSI over stock really transforms the car. Just maybe not on a hot day.

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 28 2021, 08:03 PM

James -

From all my research I was fully prepared to do just what you described.

But it is not needed. I cannot imagine the engine running better than it does. Like new. Whatever was gumming up the CIS system - and I think the metal rod/plunger was a major part - is now completely cleared up. I'm glad - from all I read, I did not want to touch mine. Now I don't need to. Thankfully, fuel accumulator seems fine. Getting almost 1 liter flow in 30 seconds - 750ml is minimum.

Yes, you describe the car quite accurately. In every detail! Like the cross between 914 and 951.

Already picked out a nice manual boost controller a few weeks ago, made in Canada. On my list....OR.......

One expert said taking out catalyst alone raises boost significantly and safely due to loss of back pressure....now the factory boost will result in more HP. Problem is all exhaust is ONE PIECE STAINLESS STEEL. I can weld, but not stainless. Leaning that way if I can find someone who welds stainless.

Keep the suggestions coming - love hearing from those who have "gone before me" on this 931 journey.

Now it will be a battle over whether I drive the 931 or 914......

GN

Posted by: dstudeba Dec 28 2021, 08:16 PM

Congrats Gatornapper, wonderful news!!

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 29 2021, 07:02 AM

Question for other 931 owners here:

As the 931 has manual steering, I was expecting some steering effort. But the effort required is way above/beyond my expectations. R&P seems to work fine, can't detect anything wrong. It's just that the effort required - especially at parking speeds - is off the chart.

Is extremely heavy steering the inherent nature of a 931?

Or could it be a result of the car being in storage for 17 years?

Any tips on what I can do about it?

Are there known ways to lighten the work required?

As always, TIA for the help.

GN

Posted by: JamesM Dec 29 2021, 10:19 AM

I had not even thought about my catalyst, but it makes sense. A cat bypass on 944 turbos is one of the first upgrades people recommend. Given crap I have seen out my exhaust im sure my cat is blown/plugged anyways.

Wondering if we could just drop the exhaust and use the broomstick method to hallow it out? It looks like one end of the pipe is a straight shot to/through the cat.


https://www.vertexauto.com/porsche-924-turbo-catalytic-converter-p-479513.aspx

Posted by: JamesM Dec 29 2021, 10:22 AM

Low speeds are for sure a workout, highway speeds it feels about how I would want it to.

Replacing the tires from the 90s helped on mine. Type of tire may have some effect as well.

Posted by: mb911 Dec 29 2021, 11:36 AM

My dad's 931 was terribly hard to steer in like a parking lot etc. The car was only 3 years old at that time.

Posted by: Van B Dec 29 2021, 05:14 PM

I had a 944 that I converted to manual steering rack back in college. I still joke about how hard it was to drive home after working my shoulders in the gym lol… felt great at speed and is still to this day, the absolute best steering feel I’ve ever had in a car, but it was a bear in the parking lot.

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 29 2021, 07:14 PM

James -

While the original Porsche part diagram of the exhaust show a joint and seam just toward the engine, mine is one-piece factory welded from cat to the turbo - and it will be a nightmare to drop.

Think mine runs too well to be plugged.

Even if I had a sawzall blade to cut the stainless I'm not sure how I'd get it welded back.

Yeah - broomstick method might work.

Let me know if you do something.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 30 2021, 09:14 AM

For all 931 lovers & owners - GREAT RECENT ARTICLE from UK on this rare and exceptional car:

https://classicsworld.co.uk/cars/porsche-924-road-test/

VERY interesting quote from it re: steering

One pleasant side effect in this particular example is the far lighter steering than you would expect; a combination of those longer steering arms reducing gearing and the larger non Lux steering wheel, but this is not common to true UK spec 924 Turbos. The steering in those should still feel lighter than a naturally aspirated Lux owing to the gearing, though by less of a margin. We found this car perfectly communicative – while Motor would have preferred more direct gearing in period, we didn’t push David’s beautiful example hard enough to appreciate the benefit for which they might have hoped.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 30 2021, 09:18 AM

Registered car yesterday and got Antique vanity plates:

924TURB

7-digit max. Will be a couple weeks before I get them - will post pic then.

Or, should I have gotten "924TRBO" ????????

For $60, I can get it. I like both.

GN

Posted by: JamesM Dec 30 2021, 12:39 PM

Interesting. I will have to take a look at mine. it has been a while.

There is a 924 Turbo/carerra GT group on facebook that seems to be a lot more active than the 924 board. Saw someone selling a complete turbo exhaust on there recently. May want to check it out.

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 30 2021, 08:54 PM

James -

Thanks. I quit FB about 5 years ago. Too bad. Sounds like a group that could be a benefit for sure. And for sure FB Marketplace is the place now to buy and sell stuff.

Used to think FB was neutral and ok. But now I truly think it is evil the way it is a form of mind-control over the naive and ignorant and a propoganda machine that too often silences truth.

Can't go there again.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 30 2021, 08:58 PM

Found steering problem is in the whole steering system - still there when car on lift and tires off ground. Upper bushings shot, as may be shocks. Whole upper bushing washer and shock piston turn with wheels, sounding like rubber being dragged.

Later a member on 924board nailed it before I could post about it.

We pulled the shocks then re-installed, and that improved things somewhat, but shafts of shocks and top washer on top bushing still turning with wheels. Never seen this before.

Will put in Koni's and new bushings soon.

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Jan 5 2022, 04:56 PM

Ok, ordered and on the way: new front Koni Sport shocks, bushings; new front rotors.

Removing (a nightmare on Turbo) the WUV/WUR to do a rebuild on it. Engine starts great but won't run properly until a little warmed up - couple minutes...typical of WUV problem.

EVERYTHING on the car works but 2 things: passenger door power window switch will go up but not down; electric cooling fan #2 doesn't come on when engine gets hot. All else works, including power mirrors. Yay! Oh - Odometer dead - gotta rebuild that too.

With no heat in shop/garage, hard finding times when it's warm enough to work out there - 45 is about my minimum.

GN

Posted by: VaccaRabite Jan 6 2022, 02:26 PM

Thats the truth! 10+ years ago I'd be in the garage so long as the snow didn't squeak when I stepped on it (about 14degrees). These days I need more heat to stay motivated.

My VW Westy project hasn't been touched since deer season started, and probably won't until about march

Zach

Posted by: Gatornapper Jan 26 2022, 10:41 AM

Update on 931 resto........

Steering now fine, lubed all and turned lock-to-lock on lift about 30 times. Koni's not in yet, but soon.

Engine running perfectly now! Started quickly but would quit. Would not stay running until started 6 or more times, then very rough until warmed up. Once warmed up it ran great.

Warm Up Regulator was stuck closed. WUR sends rich fuel mixture to engine when cold, gradually leans out mixture as engine warms up.

Problem with WUR is getting to it - almost impossible. MOST DIFFICULT engine component to remove/install in my whole 60 years of wrenching!

I came up with an unknown method to un-stick the WUR, but then it went from stuck closed (engine won’t run till warm) to stuck open (engine overheats from running too lean). So I had to remove it and rebuild it.

A bench rebuild of the unit was easy - tons of experience with more complex devices - but tolerances in this device far more tiny than anything I’ve ever worked on. I read an expert say most WUR’s just need cleaning, not a rebuild kit, so I did that, and while I have a $90 rebuild kit on the way from Germany (only ones are in Germany and Australia), I didn’t need it. Rebuilt it in an hour - easy.

Removing the small unit took over 3 hours. Re-installing it took 4 to 5 hours. PAINFUL hours.

Finally got it installed yesterday afternoon, and VOILA! Engine starts cold and runs smoothly just like it did when new! Not touching accelerator pedal.

If you are interested in the details, read here til the end of the thread……….

https://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=45451&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

If you want to see what WUR looks like, and how to do a rebuild, watch this - but fast forward to the middle…….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVsnF2RlEqw

Took her for a 45 min spin in the area twisties late yesterday and car runs and handles great - not at all like a 914, but very neutral steering, no roll. Feeling the turbo kick in is a hoot - wish the 914 had that!

Still loving this car…….

GN

Posted by: dstudeba Jan 26 2022, 11:30 AM

Great to hear, congrats!

I keep looking at 931s and found a nice two tone one that fits the bill but in the meantime I took on a 914 project so I will still just be an observer for a while.

Posted by: Gatornapper Feb 2 2022, 06:15 PM

RickB45 (here) is a close friend, and when we drove to Cleveland to pick up my 931, he picked up a mint '85 944 in Detroit and drove it home. Rick also has a stunning almost Concours '72 914, a beautiful customized 997.1 and a '90 FiberFab 356 Replica he has put together. And now a 944 whose 2 PO's were Porsche mechanics who pretty much made the car new mechanically. Oh, he has owned air-cooled 911's and an '11 Cayman in the past. Addicted? Yeah.

We have been talking about taking his 944 and my 931 out to thrash them together, then swap cars, do it again, and then compare. Yesterday we did it!

Me in 931 Rick in 944

The 931 has been consistently running so well, starting instantly no matter what the temp, maintaining great engine temps and oil pressure, so I felt it's time to let her rip.
We did a 924T vs 944 challenge. Most roads where I live are super twisty.

We took both cars out on my choice of super twisty roads. I pushed the 931 like I’ve never pushed it.

So yesterday I floored it repeatedly. I thrashed it in the turns. I cut it loose.

Rick tried to keep up staying close behind me in the 944. I’d pull away from him in the straights. He’d catch me in the turns.

Then - we switched cars. I still in the lead - but in the 944. Fun all over again. Same story, different drivers.

Main problem is in the 931…….the ancient tires. They are 20 years old and as I'm having to put 4 new tires on my '11 Cayman S this month, they will have to do for a while. They seriously hindered the handling. I also have new Koni Sport shocks going in the front of the 931 & new strut bushings too. Those will radically change the 931 handling.

But the best news of the day was with Rick in front of medriving the 931, me following him. So WHAT is the GOOD NEWS?

No matter how hard Rick drove it, accelerated, wound it out - no a hint of smoke of any color out the tailpipe!

THAT MEANS THE INTERNALS OF THE ENGINE ARE IN GREAT SHAPE! No problems with rings, valve seals, etc. I WAS OVERJOYED!

Now that Audi 4-banger is known for being bulletproof, rock-solid, built like a tank. So I’m not surprised. But I am so glad to know how solid the engine is.

Now I know or sure I got a dgreat deal on the 931. Not a super-good deal - $4k or less would have been a good deal - but I got a decent deal.

For which I am grateful.

Very soon this car will be my daily driver and I can give my Cayman S (just turned 96,000 miles today) a break!

Oh - bottom line - the 931 will out-accelerate the 944, but does not handle the turns as well. But the 944 has much larger new tires, much wider stance/track, and has a lot of new suspension parts. On hard turns, the 944 stays very much in control, while the 931 leaves you feeling it’s not quite sure - not as certain, not as nimble. It's handling is still very neutral. But so different from both the 914 and the Cayman S.

Much of that will change with new tires and Koni’s. How much? We will see. I can hardly wait.

Loving this 924 Turbo!

GN

Posted by: Gatornapper Dec 2 2022, 10:02 AM

Ok, a way-overdue fill-in on what happened from this last post above to 9/17/22, and then to 9/30/22.

New tires on the 931 helped a lot.

But something happened in my driving Rick's 944 after driving my 931 on multiple occasions:

I fell in love with the 944.

The refinements between the two cars are huge - a long list. Power steering just being one. Transmission and shift pattern being another. Much better handling too.

I got the 931 90% restored and changed my plan for the car: I'm gonna see if I can get good $$$ selling it, and if I do, look for a 951 or S2 (rare - especially for my budget).

Wow. Lots of folk wanted my sweet 931. In fact, I sold it TWICE! Had contract and deposit from first guy, but he later changed his mind, lost his deposit. Next buyer took delivery near the NC line on 9/17.

I decided I didn't want a project car, but a daily driver so I could give my Cayman S a break. After 9 years of frequent use, she broke the 100k mile barrier - and needs a rest and become a weekly driver.

I do in-depth research on all old-car purchases (finding mechanics and earlier owners) and drove 951 sellers crazy with my questions - one in NYC (of course) even said, "FU". I was ready to pull the trigger on a really nice 951 that needed nothing in Albany, NY with 83k miles on it being sold by Porsche/BMW shop for client when Rick sent me an ad for this incredible, all-original '87 944S that needed almost nothing, owned for 19 years by seller, with all maintenance records back to 1993.

The rest of the story is posted here on a new thread.

GN