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Posted by: robkammer Nov 3 2021, 12:11 PM

Hey everyone: The BB is getting it's first oil change since it arrived. I'm thinking a good organic oil would be appropriate for this vintage motor with 121K on the clock.
The service records I have are not specific about what has been put in before.
I use Syn in every other car but I think it might be overkill and make it leak even more.

This should be fun!

Posted by: ClayPerrine Nov 3 2021, 12:16 PM

Simple answer.

Valvoline VR1. It is a high Zinc oil that is designed for older motors. There are others out there like Brad Penn, but the Valvoline is available at your FLAPS, and the others are normally only available at specialty stores. So it is easier to find.

I suggest 20W50 for a stock air cooled motor.


And don't buy a Fram rock stopper air filter. Buy a good one like Wix or Mann.

Clay

Posted by: iankarr Nov 3 2021, 01:25 PM

And prepare yourself for an onslaught of oil opinions.

The distilled consensus from the engine gurus is that if you change your oil annually or at regular, reasonable mileage intervals, it doesn't really matter which brand you use, as long as the oil has generous ZDDP levels.

I personally like VR1 for the reasons mentioned above. I also use the Joe Gibbs Driven DT50, which was developed specifically for air cooled engines. Mostly because I won a case of it at the NE gathering

Posted by: emerygt350 Nov 3 2021, 01:33 PM

I prefer a lighter weight synth like 5w40 mobile 1 euro blend. I find it takes the heat away better probably due to a larger volume of oil moving through (remember these are oil cooled). Synth also survives hot spots much better (critical temps in the 300s rather than the mid 200s). Thinner oil also gets to everywhere in the engine faster on cold starts and that is when the damage is done (thus the love of zddp, whether that benefit is real or not is also a huge area of debate).

That said, if you have a leaker, synth and thinner probably isn't for you.

If I were to use thick dino, I would change it pretty frequently on an old air cooled engine, at least keep a close eye on it.

Posted by: JamesM Nov 3 2021, 02:28 PM

That could also be due to lower oil pressures from the thinner oil as well. At high oil pressure the oil cooler gets bypassed. I have always ran 20w50 but have considered running thinner oil for this reason (but i dont have an oil temp gauge atm so would have no idea if it made a difference)

Personally I run Gibbs DT50, can only get that mail order though. Prior to that I ran VR1 racing as it was the only oil I could get locally with decent zinc numbers. Whatever you go with I would recommend it be fully synthetic due to having much better breakdown temps.

Never ran Mobile 1 in a 914 but I was running M1 0W40 European Formula in my newer BMWs. I stopped when I realized the the engines ran a lot quieter with 0W40 Castrol (or Valvoline, or pretty much anything but Mobile 1), now I dont put Mobile 1 in anything anymore. Never really noticed to much difference between oils before that.

Posted by: Rand Nov 3 2021, 02:39 PM

Just be aware of zddp. This topic resurfaces, but looking back is always relevant for those who haven't seen it.

http://www.randbaldwin.com/index.php/914-and-oils/

Posted by: emerygt350 Nov 3 2021, 03:22 PM

Recently I have been thinking about that. Because the cut off is pressure based and relies on the oil pressure falling below ...i can't remember... before it goes to the cooler I guess you could run into an issue with extra hot oil not going to the cooler because the pressure would damage the cooler. That would mean less ability to pull heat of of the engine as it circulates. That was probably all determined on the old 30 weight dino too.


I have always had luck with mobil 1 euro. Occasionally I try other brands but I keep coming back. You can't beat it for 24 dollars for 5 quarts at walmart. I spend the saved money on mobil 1 filters too. No clue if they are any better than any other but why not.

Posted by: StarBear Nov 3 2021, 03:30 PM

with all he posted.

Posted by: bbrock Nov 3 2021, 04:03 PM

I've been thinking about this a lot as I'm about ready for the first oil change on my rebuilt engine (actually 3rd if you count the change following cam break-in and another after running 500 miles on break-in oil). I'm running VR1 now but interested in moving to synthetic. There are quite a few high zinc oils (both synthetic and conventional) out there now formulated for classic cars. VR1 is even available in synthetic form. There are only 2 I can get locally - conventional VR1 and Mobil 1 15W-50 (which is 1200 ppm phosphorous and 1300 ppm zinc). I'm not really a Mobil 1 fan but local availability is appealing.

But there are many other options mail order so my question is, what is the lightest oil you'd feel safe running in a Type 4 engine? I have read that tighter machining tolerances on engines have allow use of lighter oils. No idea if that is true, but Mobil 1 has high zinc formulations in 0W-40, 5W-40, and 15W-50. Synthetic VR1 is 20W-50. It's nice to have choices again.

Here's a link to Mobil 1 oils with zinc and phosphorous specs: https://www.mobil.com/lubricants/-/media/project/wep/mobil/mobil-row-us-1/files/mobil-1-product-guide-rev-31.pdf

Posted by: windforfun Nov 3 2021, 04:39 PM

20W50 from Porsche.

Posted by: emerygt350 Nov 3 2021, 05:14 PM

I like the old rule "run the thinnest oil that gives you good pressure". I get 50 pounds at 2500 rpm running 5w40 hot and 15 pounds at idle hot. When it's less hot (not ripping through the hills or extended 70 mph on the highway) I get 20 at idle and 55-60 above 2500. More than enough pressure, I could probably go to 30 if I wanted more flow, but I think 40 is a good compromise and it is air-cooled and all

Posted by: barnfind9141972 Nov 3 2021, 08:39 PM

Question for everyone, I’m getting a 2258 built right now and live in Palm Desert so it’s warm everyday for the most part. What oil does everyone recommend for hotter climates or is it relatively the same thing?

Posted by: SKL1 Nov 3 2021, 09:13 PM

What Clay said. I've been running the VR1 Valvoline 20-50 in both cars for a while now.
I don't usually drive them when it's over 100 and obviously not when it's 110+ and I've had no low oil pressure issues.

Posted by: GBX0073 Nov 3 2021, 10:28 PM

VR1 ,I like that it can be found local in a store
With the thought process I can change more often if needed

Posted by: emerygt350 Nov 4 2021, 04:35 AM

I would ask the builder too. The guys that built my 302 had specific tolerances they aim for and recommended an oil weight to match them.

Posted by: robkammer Nov 4 2021, 07:40 AM

Thanks everyone! I'm thinking the VR1 sounds right, 20W50 if I can find it locally. I plan on annual changes and I doubt I'll have more than 1000 miles a year on the car. I swear that I'll sell it before I put 20,000 on it as I NEVER want to inspect the strainer again.

Replacing the IMS in my 986 wan't as stressful as that damn strainer nut.

Cheers!

Posted by: GregAmy Nov 4 2021, 08:15 AM

I just came here for the popcorn...

Posted by: 914_7T3 Nov 4 2021, 11:38 AM

ZDDP for days!

Posted by: Superhawk996 Nov 4 2021, 12:44 PM

Posted by: Spoke Nov 4 2021, 07:22 PM

I use VR1 (not the synthetic type) in both my 914 and 930. It's relatively inexpensive and readily available. Also there have been internet sales as well and I've purchased some from the net as well as local.

Posted by: bkrantz Nov 4 2021, 08:14 PM

Mmmm, dino juice.

Posted by: Van B Nov 4 2021, 08:54 PM

I’ve used liquimoly in my 996, boat, and mower for years. But for the boat and mower I add some ZDDP additive. I’ll probably do the same for the 914.

Posted by: 930cabman Nov 5 2021, 05:02 AM

Castrol 20W 50, have been using it for almost 50 years

Posted by: FRUNKenstein Nov 7 2021, 05:54 PM

Interesting read on Valvoline’s website:

https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq


RACING OIL FAQ
What are the benefits of using racing oil versus regular passenger car oil?
The Valvoline VR1 Racing and other racing oils not intended for passenger vehicles contain additional additives for increased horsepower and reduced friction on metal parts, provide extra wear protection for high compression/higher horsepower engines, and include fewer detergents than regular conventional motor oils.

What is motor oil with zinc?
The anti-wear additive simply referred to as zinc by most car enthusiasts is actually short for Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates or ZDDP. Its primary role is to prevent metal-to-metal contact between engine parts by forming a protective film. Despite being referred to as zinc, ZDDP also contains phosphorus, which helps to perform the anti-wear function in the motor oil.

Why are zinc/phosphorus levels in motor oil lower in today’s motor oils?
With ever increasing limits on emissions, automobile manufacturers have tightened emission control systems on newer vehicles. This is one of several factors considered when the American Petroleum Institute (API) sets standards for motor oil with zinc. The current API standard is SN, which replaced the previous SM classification. Because phosphorus can poison a vehicle's emission system, the level of zinc is lower for current motor oil. Valvoline uses a new type of zinc/phosphorus that maintains the prior level of wear protection of the engine while reducing the impact on the emission system.

What is the controversy surrounding the amount of zinc in motor oil?
The controversy exists as a result of many hands-on car enthusiasts and engine experts belief that lower levels of zinc in API SN and SM motor oils can cause excessive wear in older style push-rod and flat-tappet engines. They hold this belief despite the fact that all new motor oil classifications are intended to be backward compatible.

What solutions does Valvoline offer to the zinc issue?
Valvoline offers two solutions to the zinc issue:

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil: Contains 75% higher zinc than SN or SM motor oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and traditional applications. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: 20w50, straight 50, 10w30, straight 30, straight 40 and straight 60.
Longer-Lasting Zinc/Phosphorus: Valvoline uses an advanced zinc/phosphorus additive that keeps higher levels of phosphorus in the motor oil where it protects the engine instead of poisoning the catalytic converter.
Which oil has more zinc/ZDDP: VR1 or Not Street Legal racing oil?
Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent zinc and .12 percent phosphorus compared to the Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil, which contains .14 percent zinc and .13 percent phosphorus.

Will an additive boost the zinc level?
Keep in mind that zinc additives are corrosive above certain levels and can harm your engine. Valvoline doesn’t recommend using third-party additives to boost the zinc level. If higher zinc levels are required for your engine, we recommend using Valvoline VR-1, and always remember to consult your vehicle’s owner’s manual.

Is VR1 conventional oil synthetic or a blend?
Valvoline VR1 racing oil is conventional, non-synthetic racing oil.

Posted by: ctc911ctc Nov 7 2021, 06:22 PM

Extra Vitamins and Dinosaurs,,,,,,just what my motor needs.

Posted by: bbrock Nov 7 2021, 06:57 PM

Good read, but this last sentence is now out of date...


https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/motor-oil/vr1-full-synthetic-racing-motor-oil

Posted by: flat4guy Dec 3 2021, 08:56 PM

I've been using VR1 in my VWs for years - think I may add it to my 914 this weekend. For some reason the PO was using straight 30w, not sure why but it's been 2 years ( less than 2000 miles) so it's due.

Posted by: mlindner Dec 4 2021, 08:11 AM

Yup VR1 or Joe Gibbs Driven for air cooled engine ( I think DC30)

Posted by: emerygt350 Dec 4 2021, 02:07 PM

I was just reading my owners manual and ran across the oil consumption line... 1 quart every 600 to 1000 miles is normal. Good old solera method oil change. If it burns it up fast enough the oil never gets old!