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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ With rising popularity, should 914s be kept stock?
Posted by: unpolire Nov 24 2021, 02:48 PM
For years now since owning my first 1971 914, I have seen heavy modifications such as rotary engines, turbocharger additions, V-8 conversions, and 914-6 engine conversions. Now, with rising values and losses due to wrecks and rust, how many unmodified 914s are left? Even the best Porsche tuners in the world have touched the stock 914 or 914-6 and tastefully upgraded them making them remarkable machines.
Is the time for modifications coming to a close and preservation becoming more of a priority? As a multi-marque car collector, I feel that original 914s are now the rarity. Or does the community feel that reversible modifications are OK now? I know that the originality forum of 914World is the definitive answer for all things original 914. But is that just for the small concours original community or is it migrating towards all 914 owners?
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Nov 24 2021, 03:06 PM
of course unless they are dragged out of a field and saved, then anything goes and we. should all be happy that someone dedicated themselves to saving the car.
The same amount of energy and time is required to modify or build back (better lol) originally, and the original cars are MUCH more valuable
Posted by: StarBear Nov 24 2021, 03:16 PM
My 74 1.8L is stock and original with only a few improvement mods (fuel pump relocation, Ford starter solenoid and SS braided fuel lines. Otherwise, unmolested as original owner. There are a few of them (and us) out there. 
Only left rear panel replaced (bubble rust) and all original paint, carpet, and records. This , I think adds quite a bit to its ultimate value.
Do like many of other’s mods, though.
Posted by: mlindner Nov 24 2021, 03:36 PM
Nope
Posted by: Wew Nov 24 2021, 03:47 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but could someone please clarify what exactly is stock?
Meaning if you build a 2056 from the original 2.0 block is that still stock?
New heads?
Moving fuel pump from engine compartment to the frunk?
Stainless steel fuel lines instead of the plastic.
Electronic ignition rather than the points and condenser?
Or is stock simply the way it rolled off the showroom floor and that's it.
Of course I did the ultimate sin and put the badge on mine, which I like the look.
I am waffling about removing it.
I would consider removing it if I were to sell it (which I have no plans) however with the above being done to the car to improve it in my opinion, other than the badge, is it stock?
Gauges, rims, body, motor, transmission all numbers matching.
As the good Dr. recommends and I agree, I would keep it stock, just not sure exactly what stock means.
Looking forward to the input.
At Least I am not asking about what type of oil you should use.....Doh!
Posted by: Shivers Nov 24 2021, 03:49 PM
When I got mine it was bone stock. Over the years I have unbolted stock parts and replaced them with better parts that bolted right back into the stock location. I went and shot an Austin gathering, every engine compartment was different. The 914 was designed for a six cylinder and Porsche put them in. I would not mess with an LE or and original six, they are fine the way they are. Inside of most 914-4's is a 914-6 (or 8) trying to get out. Just my opinion, the salt is behind you
Posted by: 914e Nov 24 2021, 03:56 PM
The nimble 914 wants to run free in its native habitat of twisty mountain roads, it should not spend the rest of its days confined to a garage or trailer.
Posted by: emerygt350 Nov 24 2021, 04:16 PM
The nimble 914 wants to run free in its native habitat of twisty mountain roads, it should not spend the rest of its days confined to a garage or trailer.
Exactly!
That's why I bought chalon... Ain't no going back from that. Just enjoyment. I guess I could buy new panels but why? My car is a little bit of the 80s and a little bit of the 70s. I suspect people in my generation (x) will have more interest in this relic of early 80s mods than previous generations.
Posted by: Root_Werks Nov 24 2021, 04:24 PM
Like most things, it depends.:
If I bought a nice original example, yes, would leave it alone.
It's why I bought an already butchered 914-6. Even that is going back to a "stock" looking 914.
2 cents
Posted by: Van B Nov 24 2021, 04:33 PM
Originality is a farce in a time where more and more parts show up as NLA.
That said, any build should be cohesive. Emery’s Chalon should be full on, and my ‘74 1.8L should be simple and period correct. Why? Because each car is different and each owner is different. The owners and the story are part of the car. You can’t separate them.
All you “value buyers” should go find something else. The 914 was always meant to be a cheap fun car that must be driven often to run well.
Posted by: Steve Nov 24 2021, 04:54 PM
Like most things, it depends.:
If I bought a nice original example, yes, would leave it alone.
It's why I bought an already butchered 914-6. Even that is going back to a "stock" looking 914.
2 cents
Personally since I only have a two car garage, I wouldn’t own a stock 914. There worth too much money and I like a lot of power. There are plenty of modified 914’s out there. I would buy one of those versus destroying a stock 914. I saw a killer deal on a stock Karman Ghia, but I didn’t buy it because I know I wouldn’t be happy with it and I didn’t want to ruin it.
Posted by: StarBear Nov 24 2021, 05:01 PM
Like most things, it depends.:
If I bought a nice original example, yes, would leave it alone.
It's why I bought an already butchered 914-6. Even that is going back to a "stock" looking 914.
2 cents
Personally since I only have a two car garage, I wouldn’t own a stock 914. There worth too much money and I like a lot of power. There are plenty of modified 914’s out there. I would buy one of those versus destroying a stock 914. I saw a killer deal on a stock Karman Ghia, but I didn’t buy it because I know I wouldn’t be happy with it and I didn’t want to ruin it.
My thoughts/ opinion too.
Posted by: jagalyn Nov 24 2021, 05:44 PM
With the 914, there is room for everyone. That’s what makes the world go round.
I've seen extremely nice modified cars that command prices that compete with and sometimes exceed the very best stock 914/4.
I think there will always be a range of 914's from completely stock to heavily modified that will continue to increase in value... as always condition will be the determining factor on how much.
Posted by: unpolire Nov 24 2021, 05:48 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but could someone please clarify what exactly is stock?
Meaning if you build a 2056 from the original 2.0 block is that still stock?
New heads?
Moving fuel pump from engine compartment to the frunk?
Stainless steel fuel lines instead of the plastic.
Electronic ignition rather than the points and condenser?
Or is stock simply the way it rolled off the showroom floor and that's it.
Of course I did the ultimate sin and put the badge on mine, which I like the look.
I am waffling about removing it.
I would consider removing it if I were to sell it (which I have no plans) however with the above being done to the car to improve it in my opinion, other than the badge, is it stock?
Gauges, rims, body, motor, transmission all numbers matching.
As the good Dr. recommends and I agree, I would keep it stock, just not sure exactly what stock means.
Looking forward to the input.
At Least I am not asking about what type of oil you should use.....Doh!
Well, replacing wear components and safety items (plastic fuel lines!), in addition to upgraded mechanicals for longevity, make logical sense and are highly desirable to keep 914s on the road. I guess that there will always be stock original, restomodded, and wild versions. I may start buying any 914 now to preserve them. I could have 25 of them if I had thought heavily about this beforehand! People were doing two for one sales, usually a roller and a non-runner. Didn't have the space then, but now I do!
Posted by: KELTY360 Nov 24 2021, 05:56 PM
That ship has already sailed. Due to it's NARP status for years, modifications weren't considered blasphemous, or even questioned for that matter. Fine, it is what it is.
Going forward, owners will need to evaluate their car differently, depending on how far it's descended down the rabbit hole. Originality can't be 'reclaimed', especially with the paucity of restorable and OEM parts available. IMO, true survivors, sympathetic restorations and period correct cars will offer the greatest value for collectors entering the market. 100 point restorations will always be attractive to big dollar collectors, especially as interest in the 914 continues to rise.
For my own part, I've owned my '74 2.0 since 2006. When purchased, it was 'substantially' stock, needing paint and other cosmetic touches. I left it that way for a few years until a small accident squashed the front fender leading to a makeover I'd been planning for years. Front and rear bumpers were backdated to '72 to delete the bumpetr tits, sail panel vinyl was deleted and trim holes welded shut, DOT warts were removed. The car was fully repainted in it's 'correct' color, Marathon Blue; but the bumpers and sail panels were also painted that color. The goal was to replicate an old school look of the early 914s. Instead of black valances and rocker covers, they were painted a complimentary dark blue and the Mahle wheels were also painted that color with the ribs and lips left silver. If you're interested, here's a link to the makeover: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=106287&hl=making++lemonade++from+lemons
All this said, it still has it's correct D-jet, 2.0 engine (rebuilt with euro pistons by PO), side shift tranny (rebuilt), correct interior, incl. working backpad light, and the patina of a well driven car. I wouldn't call it stock, but modified would be a pretty strong word for the changes, I think. Bottom line is that it's my car and I did what I wanted but maintained the 'essence' of the 914 character.
Posted by: Shivers Nov 24 2021, 06:10 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5344
Sure came out nice. My 72' they had painted the bumpers yellow at the factory, but then they sprayed them black. That always bugged me
Posted by: SKL1 Nov 24 2021, 06:29 PM
Looks nice Kelty.
Had my early '71 since new and over the years have done numerous "mods" including all OEM "6" brakes and suspension pieces (back when you could get them!) and when it needed a repaint (in OEM silver metallic) I went for the euro lighting look and thankfully got rid of the front warts. So it looks pretty "original" and I actually don't care as the car will never be for sale and will stay in the family after I'm long gone.
Did basically the same thing to my '73 2.0 and got rid of the front bumper tits, warts, etc. That car ain't for sale either. I have two boys (and two grandsons) and they're spoken for!!
Posted by: 930cabman Nov 24 2021, 06:32 PM
Depends on your mood of the day, original cars have a place, modified cars have a place and everything in between also has a place. I currently have 3 914's in the stable, one nearly original, one rat rod and one highly modified/6.
Life isn't too bad
BTW: Happy Thanks giving to all
Posted by: Wew Nov 24 2021, 06:38 PM
That ship has already sailed. Due to it's NARP status for years, modifications weren't considered blasphemous, or even questioned for that matter. Fine, it is what it is.
Going forward, owners will need to evaluate their car differently, depending on how far it's descended down the rabbit hole. Originality can't be 'reclaimed', especially with the paucity of restorable and OEM parts available. IMO, true survivors, sympathetic restorations and period correct cars will offer the greatest value for collectors entering the market. 100 point restorations will always be attractive to big dollar collectors, especially as interest in the 914 continues to rise.
For my own part, I've owned my '74 2.0 since 2006. When purchased, it was 'substantially' stock, needing paint and other cosmetic touches. I left it that way for a few years until a small accident squashed the front fender leading to a makeover I'd been planning for years. Front and rear bumpers were backdated to '72 to delete the bumpetr tits, sail panel vinyl was deleted and trim holes welded shut, DOT warts were removed. The car was fully repainted in it's 'correct' color, Marathon Blue; but the bumpers and sail panels were also painted that color. The goal was to replicate an old school look of the early 914s. Instead of black valances and rocker covers, they were painted a complimentary dark blue and the Mahle wheels were also painted that color with the ribs and lips left silver. If you're interested, here's a link to the makeover: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=106287&hl=making++lemonade++from+lemons
All this said, it still has it's correct D-jet, 2.0 engine (rebuilt with euro pistons by PO), side shift tranny (rebuilt), correct interior, incl. working backpad light, and the patina of a well driven car. I wouldn't call it stock, but modified would be a pretty strong word for the changes, I think. Bottom line is that it's my car and I did what I wanted but maintained the 'essence' of the 914 character.
Beautiful
Posted by: r_towle Nov 24 2021, 07:02 PM
Personally I can’t resist modifying any car.
Posted by: Beach914 Nov 24 2021, 07:02 PM
I like seeing any 914 that has been has been safely resurrected and on the road in any state of modification, be it conversion, shalon, or whatever.
Well, maybe not “any” state…..there are some pretty weird ones out there.
I think i just really like 914’s.
Posted by: 914_7T3 Nov 24 2021, 07:59 PM
I think so! 
Posted by: SO.O.C914er Nov 24 2021, 08:06 PM
I can take a 914 in any configuration you want to make it. If you have a clean great shape unmodified I would keep it stock. But it wouldn’t drive as nice through the canyons as a wide body…..drive on 
Posted by: bkrantz Nov 24 2021, 08:13 PM
My own very personal opinion:
If I owned a low mileage, pristine, and completely original 914, I would work to keep it that way.
If I bought a similar car, but in need of restoration, I would also be tempted to maintain originality, and enjoy the challenge of chasing down stock parts.
I did buy a 914 with matching numbers (see my build thread) that turned out to have been mildly wrecked and repaired (poorly) on two corners, and with serious rust. I decided that I would have more fun with some mods, mostly reversible, in building my vision of a cool 914.
Posted by: Ansbacher Nov 24 2021, 08:33 PM
I think "stock" is a nebulous and unobtainable concept with any car that has left its factory. Scenario - car rolls off the assembly line, is shipped to a dealer and is purchased. Three days later it gets its first replacement tank of gasoline; six months later its first oil change and replacement wiper blades; two years later new tires; etc., etc., etc. Voila, the car is already no longer "stock", or as in the condition it left the factory. With our 914s at the half-century mark, the idea is even more ludicrous. Let's just be content with what we have.
Ansbacher
Posted by: Eric_Ciampa Nov 24 2021, 08:35 PM
Personally I welcome any *high quality* work or modification to our cars. An excellent done restoration, BIG 4, Six conversion, Suby conversion, or V8 monster is a treat to see. To each their own. Keep our cars on the road. The enemy is rust, junkyards modifications, and poorly done work.
Posted by: KELTY360 Nov 24 2021, 08:50 PM
I think "stock" is a nebulous and unobtainable concept with any car that has left its factory. Scenario - car rolls off the assembly line, is shipped to a dealer and is purchased. Three days later it gets its first replacement tank of gasoline; six months later its first oil change and replacement wiper blades; two years later new tires; etc., etc., etc. Voila, the car is already no longer "stock", or as in the condition it left the factory. With our 914s at the half-century mark, the idea is even more ludicrous. Let's just be content with what we have.
Ansbacher
Not to be confrontational, but I think your definition is highly simplistic and an insult to the owner of a true survivor who has properly maintained his car. I believe stock refers to the configuration of the car as it left the factory. They were always designed to burn gasoline, exhaust friction capabilities of oil, wear the rubber tread off tires, etc. Why else would they supply an owner’s manual listing the correct replacement components.
Posted by: jagalyn Nov 24 2021, 09:10 PM
Not to be confrontational, but I think your definition is highly simplistic and an insult to the owner of a true survivor who has properly maintained his car. I believe stock refers to the configuration of the car as it left the factory. They were always designed to burn gasoline, exhaust friction capabilities of oil, wear the rubber tread of tires, etc. Why else would they supply an owner’s manual listing the correct replacement components.
Agreed
Posted by: Wew Nov 24 2021, 10:01 PM
I think so!
Holy smokes, Gorgeous!
Posted by: wonkipop Nov 24 2021, 10:07 PM
i used to raise an eyebrow at merican love for sticking V8s in 914s.
not anymore.
there are enough original ones around for antique interest purposes.
should be open slather for the rest.
the chassis is up for it.
remember there is only 10 years of petrol left.
drive em while you can.
Posted by: KELTY360 Nov 24 2021, 10:35 PM
i used to raise an eyebrow at merican love for sticking V8s in 914s.
not anymore.
there are enough original ones around for antique interest purposes.
should be open slather for the rest.
the chassis is up for it.
remember there is only 10 years of petrol left.
drive em while you can.
There’s a lot of wisdom here. As appealing as an unmolested 914 may be, I truly feel that the fundamental attributes of the car make it a generational platform for hot rodding. Mid-engine, four wheel disc brakes, independent suspension, rack and pinion steering, easy basic upgrade path, etc. Those are all elements to building a supercar with a nearly unlimited choice of power plants. What car builder wouldn’t want to mess with that combination? We’ve seen amazing examples of that concept.
This is the charm of the 914. In stock form it’s one of the most fun, practical sports cars ever built..trust me, I had a new one in 1973. As a platform for individual ingenuity it has no equal. This leaves it up to the owner’s evaluation of what he owns and where his vision takes it. Enjoy the ride.
Posted by: JeffBowlsby Nov 24 2021, 11:54 PM
At this point, ~50 years from being as originally delivered, each 914 is unique and different. No two 914s nor 914 owners are alike and that should be celebrated. That’s the way we like them around here.
Posted by: rgalla9146 Nov 25 2021, 07:48 AM
At this point, ~50 years from being as originally delivered, each 914 is unique and different. No two 914s nor 914 owners are alike and that should be celebrated. That’s the way we like them around here.
I'll take one of each please.
Posted by: mlindner Nov 25 2021, 07:54 AM
I love these cars, stock or modified. Happy Holidays 
Posted by: mb911 Nov 25 2021, 09:10 AM
I think ones that are close to stock current condition or survivor condition with almost no rust and close to original paint on all panels should be kept stock hands down. Then I think ones like mine that were rust buckets and destined to be scrapped are really a blank canvas. Now an interesting quandary for me is my dad's 74 , a fairly stock 914 though think someone upgraded to a 2.0 from what I believe was a stock 1.8. This car needs some rust repair and paint but it's hard for me to decide if I should put it back 100% to stock or should I just 6 swap it?.
It boils down to it's your car do what you want.. from a value stand point I believe sticking with the air-cooled vw or Porsche engine are hands down your best bet.
Posted by: Jett Nov 25 2021, 09:44 AM
We are fortunate to have four 914’s two (73 and 75 2.0) in as close to stock configuration as possible and perhaps over restored. One 73 1.7 that is mechanically sound but never restored, and a 75 1.8 that we are doing a narrow body conversion with a 69 911s motor, which should be a blast.
We like them all !
Happy Thanksgiving!
Posted by: Jett Nov 25 2021, 09:50 AM
I think so!
Holy smokes, Gorgeous!
Car is stunning! Let me know if you ever plan on selling
Posted by: jagalyn Nov 25 2021, 10:11 AM
I think so!
Holy smokes, Gorgeous!
Car is stunning! Let me know if you ever plan on selling
Sorry Jett, I’m first in line!
Posted by: GregAmy Nov 25 2021, 10:26 AM
No.
Let's stop turning these cars into concourse specials. Let's stop trying to make them expensive collectibles. I bought my cars because they are affordable and fun to drive. I don't care if the value goes up or down EXCEPT if they become so "collectible" that I have to start thinking about the finances and begin questioning if it's rational to drive them on the street at all.
If I had a /6, I wouldn't drive it. I'd sell it and buy a nice /6 conversion to drive. What happens if my /4 become spendy? Where do I go?
I don't want my cars placed in a bubble. I want to enjoy them. If we make my car "collectible" then I'll have to start wearing string-back gloves and dealing with 911 artichokes at PCA meetings discussing option and paint codes and pretending I care what they have.
Enjoy your car. Do with it what you want. But please don't place these 914s on art pedestals... GA
Posted by: mepstein Nov 25 2021, 10:42 AM
If people complain to me about what I'm doing to my cars, I'm hanging out with the wrong group. I like stock, I like modified, but I don't like other people telling me what I should or shouldn't do.
Posted by: mlindner Nov 25 2021, 10:45 AM
I'm with you GregAmy. I bought the last 993 Carrera S (1998) new and had it for 18years til the value when up so high and the driving experience went down. It was time to sell and put some of the money back into the old 914 that sat in the garage for the last 30 years. I'm happy all over again.
Posted by: rgalla9146 Nov 25 2021, 11:19 AM
Variety is the spice of life.
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Posted by: StarBear Nov 25 2021, 11:41 AM
Posted by: StarBear Nov 25 2021, 11:44 AM
If people complain to me about what I'm doing to my cars, I'm hanging out with the wrong group. I like stock, I like modified, but I don't like other people telling me what I should or shouldn't do.
Posted by: windforfun Nov 25 2021, 11:55 AM
I think so!
Me too. Happy Thanksgiving!!!
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Posted by: tygaboy Nov 25 2021, 12:07 PM
Eesch, I hope not... 
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Posted by: rgalla9146 Nov 25 2021, 12:19 PM
Eesch, I hope not...
This shot is beautiful.
Five hundred horses....... I don't nee no stinkin' trunk
(what trans is that ?)
Posted by: tygaboy Nov 25 2021, 12:44 PM
Eesch, I hope not...
This shot is beautiful.
Five hundred horses....... I don't nee no stinkin' trunk
(what trans is that ?)
Boxster S 6-speed - G86/20
Posted by: Ansbacher Nov 25 2021, 12:59 PM
Not to be confrontational, but I think your definition is highly simplistic and an insult to the owner of a true survivor who has properly maintained his car. I believe stock refers to the configuration of the car as it left the factory. They were always designed to burn gasoline, exhaust friction capabilities of oil, wear the rubber tread off tires, etc. Why else would they supply an owner’s manual listing the correct replacement components.
[/quote]
Conceptually you are correct. Technically you are wrong. To assume I have insulted anyone by voicing my own opinion is a bit cheeky.
Ansbacher
Posted by: Cornerlot Nov 25 2021, 01:49 PM
At this point, ~50 years from being as originally delivered, each 914 is unique and different. No two 914s nor 914 owners are alike and that should be celebrated. That’s the way we like them around here.
My 914-6 hasn't been stock since 30 days after it left the dealer's lot in 1971. It's personalization and patina tell the 50 years of ownership that no 'stock' or restored car can ever convey. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Posted by: windforfun Nov 25 2021, 02:34 PM
It's whatever floats your boat (as a friend of mine likes to say).
Posted by: FRUNKenstein Nov 25 2021, 07:55 PM
I love these cars, stock or modified. Happy Holidays
That car is stunning. Similar to mine, but man, orange is a great color on these cars. Ravenna green is my favorite 914 color, but with GT flares, I think orange looks the best, bar none.
As for the thread topic, when adding flares and 5 lug hubs allows a car to come out like that, I shed no tears for the loss of originality.
Mine:
Posted by: davehg Nov 26 2021, 02:00 AM
First time I drove a big six conversion, I was hooked. No way I could go back to stock. In my second build, I decided to get a bone stock appearance but sneak a twin plug 2.7 to create the ultimate sleeper.
Given the prices that the big six conversions are getting, it won’t harm collectibility.
Posted by: 914Next Nov 26 2021, 09:29 AM
If people complain to me about what I'm doing to my cars, I'm hanging out with the wrong group. I like stock, I like modified, but I don't like other people telling me what I should or shouldn't do.
Mark. I'm a diehard survivor buff and not ashamed of it. Love keeping a car original and in amazing condition. But I drive them too....yes, far more minimally that some of you but I get to enjoy preserving as well as driving them. Just love preserving the history. A pic taken of Jim this fall before I put the car away (original owner of my car for 41 years). If you look closely you can see the green paint on the wheel lugs that he left on after the dealer recall of the Fuchs in 1973. No way I'm gonna remove it now. With that said I love seeing cool restorations and am amazed at the skill that some of you have. I'm not a mechanic or body guy so I can offer my skills as a preservationist for me others to enjoy. It takes all types.
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