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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Father/Daughter Build
Posted by: Hollybrook Nov 28 2021, 04:01 PM
I've been lurking here for a few years, but this is my first post so I guess an introduction is in order. My name is Wayne and though I actually don't have a Porsche, I do have a 1992 Mercedes Benz 500E that Porsche had a big hand in designing and building. I also have a Datsun 260Z and used to race a 240Z in SCCA road racing. My 260Z was heading to the garage for restoration until my wife convinced me that my daughter's 914 needed to be done first.
My youngest daughter, Annika, is sharing this account while we work on the project. She recently graduated from college with a degree in civil engineering and a minor in mechanical engineering technology. I think you will enjoy getting to know her!
The car in question is a 1973 1.7L 914 that my brother and sister in law bought new and drove as their only car for many years. As their family grew, the car ended up in the driveway under a tarp until it was offered to Annika as a gift. We thought it needed a tune-up and some paint work. As we started looking at the car, it became obvious that it had serious hell hole rust and would need lots of loving care to get back on the road. At the time, Annika was a junior in high school without the financial resources for a project of this magnitude. so back under the tarp it went until she got a career type job and started building up a fund for the project.
We are quite lucky to have my brother in law and original owner, John, helping us with this build. John is a car enthusiast and used to crew for me on my race team. Not to mention, he did all the work on this car over its life and his historical perspective will be invaluable.
Here we are in January 2016 loading the car onto a trailer for the trip back home.
A very excited car owner!
After a quick wash in our drveway.
Posted by: Hollybrook Nov 28 2021, 04:14 PM
The tarp came off today so we could see what condition the car is in now. The good news is that it is pretty much just like how we stored it.
Here are Annika and John with big smiles on their faces.
Posted by: Shivers Nov 28 2021, 04:17 PM
Farout, this will be a great project. Love the rims and the rack. 
Posted by: Van B Nov 28 2021, 04:18 PM
Welcome!!!! So cool! I’m across the river from you all in Southern Maryland. I have the same color car as a 74 1.8L that I bought in Atlanta a couple months ago.
Also, I just paid a nice price for those same ATS wheels! Those are the coolest wheels from the era and definitely keepers in my book!
Posted by: Hollybrook Nov 28 2021, 04:24 PM
Thanks for the welcome!
Unfortunately, we only have three of the ATS rims -- 2 5.5" and one 6". I wish we could find another 6" rim, but have not had much luck when I poke around.
W
Posted by: BeatNavy Nov 28 2021, 04:28 PM
Great story, Wayne (and Annika). Until about 2 years ago I was full time in NoVA, too.
The great feeling of bringing one home on a trailer 
Then the real work starts 
Good luck to both of you, and look forward to hearing the progress.
Posted by: Hollybrook Nov 28 2021, 04:30 PM
I should add that this will not be a 100% stock garage queen. Annika wants a car for driving and is probably going to make choices for best performance over a show car.
And I'm quite happy with that as I believe cars should be driven!
W
Posted by: Shivers Nov 28 2021, 04:47 PM
I should add that this will not be a 100% stock garage queen. Annika wants a car for driving and is probably going to make choices for best performance over a show car.
And I'm quite happy with that as I believe cars should be driven!
Well you guy's came to the right place...It's like Baskin Robbins around here. From 4 to 8 cylinders, air or water cooled, you'll find guidance here.
Posted by: wonkipop Nov 28 2021, 05:01 PM
love the ATS
Posted by: Puebloswatcop Nov 28 2021, 05:38 PM
I think its awesome that you are doing this as a father / daughter project. Hope it is fun for you both. Cant wait to watch the build go on. 
Posted by: mepstein Nov 28 2021, 06:13 PM
Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 28 2021, 06:23 PM
Wayne & Anika -
WELCOME!
I'm just 2 hours or less south of you and would love to drive my 914 up to see you all some time as you do this recovery.
Will love to be watching it here....
GN
PS: Where did Anika get her degrees? I have 2 engineer sons, Civil one went to VA Tech, the other ODU was Mechanical - now a Navy helo pilot.
I've been lurking here for a few years, but this is my first post so I guess an introduction is in order. My name is Wayne and though I actually don't have a Porsche, I do have a 1992 Mercedes Benz 500E that Porsche had a big hand in designing and building. I also have a Datsun 260Z and used to race a 240Z in SCCA road racing. My 260Z was heading to the garage for restoration until my wife convinced me that my daughter's 914 needed to be done first.
My youngest daughter, Annika, is sharing this account while we work on the project. She recently graduated from college with a degree in civil engineering and a minor in mechanical engineering technology. I think you will enjoy getting to know her!
The car in question is a 1973 1.7L 914 that my brother and sister in law bought new and drove as their only car for many years. As their family grew, the car ended up in the driveway under a tarp until it was offered to Annika as a gift. We thought it needed a tune-up and some paint work. As we started looking at the car, it became obvious that it had serious hell hole rust and would need lots of loving care to get back on the road. At the time, Annika was a junior in high school without the financial resources for a project of this magnitude. so back under the tarp it went until she got a career type job and started building up a fund for the project.
We are quite lucky to have my brother in law and original owner, John, helping us with this build. John is a car enthusiast and used to crew for me on my race team. Not to mention, he did all the work on this car over its life and his historical perspective will be invaluable.
Here we are in January 2016 loading the car onto a trailer for the trip back home.
A very excited car owner!
After a quick wash in our drveway.
Posted by: Van B Nov 28 2021, 06:47 PM
Thanks for the welcome!
Unfortunately, we only have three of the ATS rims -- 2 5.5" and one 6". I wish we could find another 6" rim, but have not had much luck when I poke around.
W
I got 5.5” on all four corners. And I’m going for tall boy tires to get my speedo as accurate as possible. Even a mildly staggered setup would make zero sense on a wimpy 1.8L.
You got a long road ahead so plenty of time to source another 6” wheel!
Posted by: Hollybrook Nov 28 2021, 06:57 PM
Hello! What a coincidence! I got my Civil Engineering degree from ODU! I started out Mechanical then wanted to do Civil but after an internship with the Navy wanted to do Electrical
A
Wayne & Anika -
WELCOME!
I'm just 2 hours or less south of you and would love to drive my 914 up to see you all some time as you do this recovery.
Will love to be watching it here....
GN
PS: Where did Anika get her degrees? I have 2 engineer sons, Civil one went to VA Tech, the other ODU was Mechanical - now a Navy helo pilot.
Posted by: Gatornapper Nov 28 2021, 08:06 PM
A -
That is indeed a fun coincidence. I am an EE who should have done ME - but then it's the way my career path steered me more than my choice. That's why I love wrenching so much.
Think it is fantastic you and your dad are doing this together. You'll be grateful for the experience and time together all you life.
I have 3 daughters - oldest a UVA grad in Lingustics (speaks Portuguese and Spanish) working on her masters in Ed now, another a very successful realtor, another a creative artist and gourmet cook who is in accounting in a Fortune 500 company.
When weather turns warm again, I'll have to drive my 914 up your way.
GN
Hello! What a coincidence! I got my Civil Engineering degree from ODU! I started out Mechanical then wanted to do Civil but after an internship with the Navy wanted to do Electrical
A
Wayne & Anika -
WELCOME!
I'm just 2 hours or less south of you and would love to drive my 914 up to see you all some time as you do this recovery.
Will love to be watching it here....
GN
PS: Where did Anika get her degrees? I have 2 engineer sons, Civil one went to VA Tech, the other ODU was Mechanical - now a Navy helo pilot.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Nov 29 2021, 07:45 AM
What a terrific car to begin with. I love that your daughter is into the 914. Great career path she chose too. Please keep the pictures coming as you begin the resurrection of this great car. The fact it is a family owned since new car makes it all the better.
Posted by: Dion Nov 29 2021, 08:25 AM
Absolutely fantastic. Glad you posted this. Good luck with all. Most importantly have fun with this experience…My son is at George Mason in VA studying Mechanical Engineering He’s slowly getting his 944 sorted.
Posted by: mbseto Nov 29 2021, 08:48 AM
Cool project! Looking forward to watching this happen.
Posted by: flipb Nov 29 2021, 09:20 AM
Welcome! I am nearby in Fairfax (22031) with my own yellow 914.
Mine is by no means a stunner, but I'm happy to meet up and share it if you need a little inspiration.
DM me if you'd like to connect.
Posted by: krazykonrad Nov 29 2021, 11:20 AM
Let us know how we can help.
Posted by: 930cabman Nov 29 2021, 11:26 AM
Welcome aboard, what a great project for you two. Keep us updated with your progress as you move along
Posted by: jaredmcginness Nov 29 2021, 11:43 AM
Nice start! I'm not far away either, I was born in Fairfax - always good to see local cars.
Posted by: Root_Werks Nov 29 2021, 01:49 PM
Looks like a solid 914 to start with, nice find! Very neat you got your daughter involved. Most younger folks are not interested tinkering on cars.
Posted by: Betty Nov 29 2021, 05:00 PM
You certainly are in the right place for all things 914!
Holler if you need parts/advice/vent/grumble/brag!!! 
P.S. - pictures of the race car or it didn't happen! 
Posted by: stownsen914 Nov 29 2021, 05:08 PM
Awesome project! My first car was a '74 914 that my dad and I rebuilt. Can't replace that experience ... you'll get lots of help/advice here.
Posted by: FRUNKenstein Nov 30 2021, 12:26 AM
Welcome, and definitely save those ATS Classic wheels!
Posted by: Arno914 Nov 30 2021, 03:35 AM
Great Project! Good to see that you will bring this 914 back to life together!
My daughters love the 914, too and helped as much as they could to bring it back on the road after some 15 years of dry storage.
Cheers from another proud dad. 
Posted by: wonkipop Nov 30 2021, 03:40 AM
have you got twins mate?
Posted by: Arno914 Nov 30 2021, 05:54 AM
No, not Twins.
22 and 25 now.
Sort of grew up with dad´s Porsche passion. Remember beeing pulled over because we didn´t deinflate the turtle on the drive home after going for a swim. Gladly the German Polizei had humour... 
Posted by: wonkipop Nov 30 2021, 06:07 AM
ahh
thats great. the turtle. (and nice to know german cops can laugh!
your girls sure look alike. incredible.
Posted by: Arno914 Nov 30 2021, 07:32 AM
Thank you!
(We have visited Australia in 2017. Stayed in Melbourne and enjoyed the Great Ocean Road - in a rental car, off course). Beautiful Country!
Posted by: Hollybrook Dec 29 2021, 11:59 AM
We are finally getting back to this project and planning how to approach the metal repairs. I think we have decided to go with a rotisserie rather than build a jig for repairing or replacing the longitudinals. It seems to me that access will be a lot better going this way, even though we will need to stabilize the chassis by temporarily tying together the inside of the passenger compartment.
The car was resting on pressure treated lumber at the jack points and this has caused extra corrosion. I have attached some photos of where we are starting from. I don't have any photos of under the battery tray, but it certainly looks better than the photos I am including. We will see how much work needs to be done there after we get the engine out.
Any comments or ideas are most welcome!
This is where the jack point would be on the passenger side. There was a 6x6 pressure treated post under the jack pad near this.
The jack pad is rusted out as well.
The longitudinal is rusting out from the inside.
W
Posted by: Hollybrook Dec 29 2021, 12:01 PM
The driver's side looks better.
W
Posted by: Superhawk996 Dec 29 2021, 04:29 PM
Been there - done that.
Think three times about doing longitudinal replacment on a rotisserie.
You will need more than just door bracing to keep the vehicle intact on a rotisserie when the long is removed.
Of course it all depends on the design of the rotisserie and where the weight loads are, how stiff the rotisserie is, etc. A conventional rotissierie that is just supporting the vehicle from the bumper mounting points is going to cause you a lot of grief even with substantial bracing. The amount of movement and shrinkage when welding is usually underestimated.
Best practice for structural repair is to build on a Celette bench. Since most of us can't afford that, a build jig is 2nd choice and even there, fixturing is important. Last choice is a rotisserie. Not saying it can't be done, just give it extra consideration if you go the rotisserie route.
My hat goes off to you for working to save one that is has that much long damage. I hate seeing these cars scrapped. 
Posted by: Hollybrook Dec 29 2021, 05:35 PM
My thought was a typical rotisserie and door bars like Tangerine Racing's with two on each door opening. These would be tied together with cross bars and triangulation in two planes. Do you think that is inadequate compared to a jig or table?
W
Posted by: Superhawk996 Dec 29 2021, 06:41 PM
I'm sure there are viable ways to do it on a rotisserie (especially the hoop cage rotisserie designs) but I think it will be very easy to underestimate the amount of structural bracing that will need to be done to the chassis to maintain integrity.
I used a triangulated door brace along when I was doing the major longitudinal work on a build cart. Stuff still moves around with these braces. 
Later on, I also used a diagonal brace inside the chassis running diagonal from driver side cowl to passenger side rear door / top of long to control "matchboxing" fore & aft when I welded in the new floorpan. You can see on the diagonal brace, it had to be doubled up with another tube to have enough stiffness to control movement. 
I'm sure this isn't the only way to do it.
Given the sizing of my braces, I certainly wouldn't have wanted the weight of the chassis cantilevered on a bumper mounted rotisserie. You will be amazed at how much stuff still moves around with these braces.
My build cart, jig followed that used by Jeff Hail - Bringing out the dead.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76791
The weight from the front of the car is transfered down into the build cart via the OEM front suspension crossmember. The rear via the transmission mounts stanchions. Since both of these mounting locations are approximately 1/2 the distance between bumper and the passenger compartment the weight is sort of balanced and doesn't put much bending load on the longitudinal or the lack there of when one of them is missing. The door braces then were used for tweaking and preloading the chassis when welding.
Another great thread is Digging into Hell:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=16748
And of course most recently from @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=307290
If you're not familiar with those threads, spend time on them. Each has unique ways of doing things but overall they serve as the DIY guide that has worked out sucessfully.
Posted by: mate914 Dec 30 2021, 08:23 AM
The door bars are a must. X pattern at dash to door frame and firewall. X pattern at windshield to rear window top roof. Take care to have car level while bracing and rotisserie. The pressure treated wood did very little to the rust, how ever it did stop it from sagging worst.
I forgot to say that putting a jack under the very rear of the car on metal only and jacking the car up until doors are even is also very important.
Matt 
Posted by: Hollybrook Dec 30 2021, 09:53 AM
Thanks for the links. I had already read the whole hell hole thread but the other two will make some good reading.
Luckily for us, the doors seem to be aligned correctly and close nicely.
Posted by: SirAndy Dec 30 2021, 02:28 PM
You can never have enough bracing, even on a Celette bench ...
Posted by: Puebloswatcop Dec 30 2021, 06:00 PM
I would definitly skip putting on a rotisserie until the longs have been replaced. Without a solid frame putting on a rotisserie is teetering on suicide for the car. Even on a rolling frame it is important to brace, brace and brace some more. Also measure, measure and measure more. If you need the measurements they can be found in several places, or if you want I can send you what Porsche has in the manuals.
Posted by: rcrgyrl Dec 31 2021, 11:34 AM
Annika you will love your 914 - this is my third. My daughter (a 3rd year ME actually) and I work on all our cars together, it's a great mom/daughter fun time. Feel free to reach out - we are in socal, but still....
I have had three 914s - here are pictures of my previous and my current 914 (along with my daughter and me)
Jeni
Posted by: Hollybrook Jan 3 2022, 02:48 PM
I was looking back through this post and noticed you asked for a photo of my old race car, so here is one from the Washington DC Auto Show in 2004:
And this one is from Summit Point turn 5:
W
Posted by: Hollybrook Jan 4 2022, 05:22 PM
Got some new tires and wheels for Christmas this year from my parents who got them from @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=18763 . Thanks so much, Nick, for the great deal and thanks mom and dad for the best present ever! I love how they look so I plan to recondition them for long term use
/A
Posted by: Hollybrook Jan 4 2022, 06:43 PM
Annika you will love your 914 - this is my third. My daughter (a 3rd year ME actually) and I work on all our cars together, it's a great mom/daughter fun time. Feel free to reach out - we are in socal, but still....
I have had three 914s - here are pictures of my previous and my current 914 (along with my daughter and me)
Jeni
Great pictures Jeni thank you for the inspiration! And I definitely agree, working on cars with family is priceless and wonderful.
/A
Posted by: nditiz1 Jan 4 2022, 08:15 PM
Got some new tires and wheels for Christmas this year from my parents who got them from @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=18763 . Thanks so much, Nick, for the great deal and thanks mom and dad for the best present ever! I love how they look so I plan to recondition them for long term use
/A
You're very welcome! You're Dad's a great guy with some cool racing stories. Hope to see it on the road soon.
Posted by: Van B Jan 4 2022, 11:41 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22788
What’s your plan for the ATS wheels?
Posted by: Badinfluence1 Jan 5 2022, 02:16 AM
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
cool car and story
Posted by: Hollybrook Jan 5 2022, 09:36 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22788
What’s your plan for the ATS wheels?
Van B, we are not sure yet. Its really up to Annika to decide if she wants to try to find another 6" wheel.
I have a question about tagging a user with a space in their name -- how do you do that? I tried to tag Van B and got Van instead...
/W
Posted by: Van B Jan 5 2022, 12:35 PM
Spaces are a pain. I don’t know how to tag my own name properly lol…
Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 6 2022, 06:57 AM
Posted by: poorsche914 Jan 6 2022, 09:50 AM
Place the name in quotes AFTER the @
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=26011
Posted by: Hollybrook Jan 6 2022, 11:52 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=26011
I thought I tried that but perhaps I put the quote in front of the @.
/W
Posted by: Van B Jan 6 2022, 02:08 PM
Well it worked because I came a runnin’ lol!
Thanks!
Posted by: Type 47 Jan 6 2022, 08:43 PM
I was looking back through this post and noticed you asked for a photo of my old race car, so here is one from the Washington DC Auto Show in 2004:
And this one is from Summit Point turn 5:
W
Welcome Wayne, You said "actually don't have a Porsche" but you have an intense relationship to a 914 and certainly belong contributing to this forum! Your also an SCCA racer, which is cool.
You not only have a relationship to a 914 but one that is kind of rare. What makes it rare is that it's basically and original car and still has ties to the original owner.
This car deserves to be restored to like new.
Problem is it would be an expensive investment but well worth it. The other issue is that you want to make it road worthy and give that 914 experience as a daily driver to your daughter. I've had a 914 since 1977 and had a couple that were daily drivers for quite a while that instilled the 914 spirit.
So here is the other issue...while it is a daily driver, it needs to be protected as when it is fully restored is valuable...more valuable than the restoration costs; and 914 prices continue to rise for nice cars.
It does have to have the major rust properly fixed before it goes on a jig. when I had the body work done on mine it was a rust free car.
Factor in with whatever you do is that there are very few original cars that exist, and you have one.
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