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Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 23 2021, 06:04 PM

Just another Resto thread!

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 23 2021, 06:06 PM

Hiya 914 folk, so decided to take the plunge last year and get my car restored. This is as most of you know not an endeavor for folks with a lot of common sense. I’m going to be upside down and having to explain to my friends for years to come why I would spend so much money on an old car that..well pretty much looks just like it did before I did the project. This is out of love, and passion for my teener.
Back story is I had always wanted one of these. After years of fooling around with the Italians (primarily Alfas),rotary engined weirdos Mazdas (still have my FD), 911’s, various sporting British makes I took the plunge and went for the more pedestrian, or so I thought at the time, the peoples Porsche, the 914. I knew I wanted a 73 2.0 preferably a blue color of some sort. (sixes were out of my comfort zone price wise and I wasn’t convinced it was that much of a better driver than the 2.0..sorry six owners) I waited patiently and eventually this Alaskan blue beauty popped up. It was more than I originally wanted to pay, but I don’t have kids, didn’t have a girlfriend, and my lifestyle is a fairly simple one. I negotiated for a better price, and the owner didn’t budge! Ouch! Oh well, It was too late. Once I saw the car I was smitten and had to have it. Some of you may remember this car or even know it. I really bought it with the intention of having fun with it for a year and then moving on. The day I drove it home I was completely surprised at how well this little car behaved. It handled beautifully, felt faster than it was, and made me (and others) smile. It’s fair to say It was love at first drive. Of course this is an old car, and as all things that age (myself included!) we start to fall apart. First it was the suspension, then it was the FI, valves we[attachmentid=819623]nt out of adjustment quickly, then the door locks stopped working..etc..Still I drove the thing daily and for the most part it never let me down (except on the first day of the California Melee..OUCH..that was embarrassing and another story for another time). [attachmentid=819622] [attachmentid=819622] I decided it was time to jump into the deep of the pool. Inspired by so many of the builds on here (Cairo…nice car Mike…thanks for lunch too!) I did some research and even though there were many reputable builders out there I went with Eric and his crew out at PMB in Utah. I was swayed in part by Eric’s car as presented on Jay Leno’s website. His car was stunning. I contacted Eric and after an initial waiting period (they were very busy) I finally saw my car off! Woo hoo. It was very exciting. Then the sh*#t hit the fan. Pandemic. Things got weird. PMB moved to a different location, there was some difficulty for them getting help. Still they were great and kept in touch even if we were a little behind schedule. Now the guys are going at it with the fervor of religious TV minister! Here are some updates for you to enjoy. Comments suggestions please welcome[attachmentid=819623] [attachmentid=819627] [attachmentid=819626]

Posted by: Shivers Dec 23 2021, 06:12 PM

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 23 2021, 06:19 PM

So here is some of the work being done…and less talky talky from me! pic 1) to remove or not to remove? That is the question.
Pic 2) just when you think you have no rust..pic3) Voila! Rust gone) 4) Yikes!

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 23 2021, 06:26 PM

More pics..happy freaking Christmas you purveyors of carnage, mayhem and total destruction..

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 23 2021, 06:28 PM

More good stuff!

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 23 2021, 06:33 PM

Let’s keep the party going! goodies from 914 Rubber!
what the heck are all these holes! Looks like a kitchen colander! what do my car and Jesus have in common? They are both holy.

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 23 2021, 06:38 PM

Hang in there readers almost done..for today! More holes! Wait till you see the trunk..some bozo thought it was a good idea to put an air conditioner in this car and cut a giant hole in the trunk in the process. Just take the top off for goodness sake.



Attached image(s)

Posted by: dstudeba Dec 23 2021, 06:40 PM

Those are the before shots of your car?!?

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 23 2021, 06:43 PM

ahhhh..shiny new metal..



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Posted by: Montreal914 Dec 23 2021, 06:48 PM

This will be a very good looking car when it gets out of PMB! Congratulations!

As for pictures, I typically upload my phone pictures on my laptop, then open them with Paint. I rotate, crop to the interesting zone, and rescale if too large, then save. When I upload to the forum they are perfect. I typically target around 300mb size file. This allow for decent size pictures and putting up to about 10 of them per post.

Keep the pictures coming of the progress!


Edit: and...

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 23 2021, 06:52 PM

I know this is kind of like binge watching the entire series of the office but hey is that so bad? Ok need some feedback. Saw a car recently on BAT (twin plug 2.9 powered 1972 Gold 914) with a very cool stripped out interior. No back pad, carpets, just clean. What’s your opinion on this look? Votes on keeping the vinyl sail panels or not? Any other positive helpful suggestions welcome. Trolls not. BTW here is a pic of Larry's bad ass car (he’s the one doing the work on my car) so sweet. Shout out to guys at PMB

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 23 2021, 06:57 PM

Thanks for the picture editing suggestions will do! I just realized I double posted initial post…can I delete that…sorry I’m old don’t know how these dang computer things work! Somebody give me an abacus, slide rule, and a Brownie camera!

Posted by: JamesM Dec 23 2021, 07:18 PM

If you are going this deep into it, build the car you want. If you like something, no matter if it is popular or not, do it. Its going to come out beautiful either way.

Are you keeping it a narrow body? 4 cyl?

Me personally, I think the carpeted firewall works in race cars and GT clones but for street cars I like having the backpad+interior light. Just feels a little more finished/comfortable to me.

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 23 2021, 07:29 PM

Yes those are before shots of my car..it was pretty..but like a lot of pretty things lots of underlying unseen issues. Not much rust but lots of metal work (frickin holes everywhere!)
I am keeping this car narrow bodied. I really like the classic lines of this car. Definitely keeping the 2.0 4 cyl. with maybe some minor performance upgrades. I don’t think these were meant to be particularly fast cars, and like they say it’s more fun to drive a slow car fast..
I think I’m going for the “Euro” look hence the deletion of the warts, and considering the non vinyl sail panel look.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 24 2021, 07:45 AM

Hi Frankie - I am so glad to see you moved forward and are getting the car restored by PMB. You are going to have a very beautiful car for sure. As others have said, make the car what you want it to be.

When it comes to suspension, my 2 cents worth is go with rubber bushings all around. I went with Elephant Racing and the car rides very nice and does not squeak. I also went with Bilstein shocks on all 4 corners. Your car should already have F&R sway bars and the stock later sway bars are what I added to my build. I also went with 140 pound rear springs, but the 6 motor is a bit heavier than the 4.

I am now in Auburn- we sold/bought/moved in November.

Look forward to seeing your car as it progresses along and then in person. You will be driving it before you know it.

Merry Christmas.
Michael

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Dec 24 2021, 11:46 AM

Nice car, Frankie! And glad you made it into a 914 after a lot of other cool cars. Tested FDs for Sports Car International when they were new—dug them then, dig them now. Always happy to see one, but rarely do. Spotted a clean black one in Richmond last week, sitting on silver Enkei RPFs, and it made my afternoon.

I'm in Marin, too, and will look forward to seeing your 914 when completed. As others have said, build it the way you want to—but if my two cents are what you're after, I became a subscriber to "less is more, with an edge" when it comes to the 914 back in the 1990s and 2000s, and that approach has only had more and more appeal for me as time goes on. Michael's Irish Green six is a perfect example of the approach. Looking at your Alaska Blue car, I'd restore the Fuchs stock, put everything "right" in a stock way and focus on a few details: US sidemarker delete, front bumper guard delete, Euro lights (and maybe collect US lights for a box in the garage), low ride height/great suspension (I'd go Koni reds, were it me), and the right tires (195/65, 205/55, or maybe 185/70 Avons?). Maybe a steering wheel you like and Scheel seats inside, with a short shifter from Weltmeister or JWest.

I've been driving the same old narrow 914 for 32 years now, and as much as I love wild 914s and modified 914s, my budget limitations as a young punk led to a path that has me appreciating stock-ish (extra emphasis on the ish!) 914s more and more, whether four or six. These cars are so, so good—even when compared to some of Porsche's very best.

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 31 2021, 11:35 PM

….not much going on this week with the teener, although I made a decision to keep the sail panels. Hard choice to make as there are so many beautiful examples on the forum with deleted vinyl that look so good. In the end, being that my car is mostly stock (although I did delete side markers, put on euro signal lights & euro tails), I think it’s appropriate to go with the vinyl. My only concern is the possibility of rust getting into that area again..Trent had to cut a pretty big chunk out and patch it up.
Thought it would be fun to share some car porn for you enthusiasts out there. First pic is of my FD and 914 in the garage and my guard cat Shasta (“she has to” go out “she has to” come back in) Boots Jones checking the perimeter. Second pic is my car on the bottom and my friend Ari’s very cool Lancia Zagato Flamina Super Sport pictured above. Third pic (sorry can’t seem to rotate last two pics) is an actual Singer just casually parked among more pedestrian metal. Fourth pic is of an Renault/Alpine A110, the only other car I truly lust for!

Posted by: frankieshooz Dec 31 2021, 11:48 PM

By the way, thanks Pete for your 2 cents. Yes I love Michaels car and I think you are pretty much right on with my thinking on how I want to present this car. I’ve pretty much done exactly (so far) what you have suggested. I also had the warts removed from the bumpers for a smoother look (thanks for the suggestion Trent). The interior is my only point of contention. I’m thinking factory plaid (although not available in ‘73) in the darker blue tartan, possibly match that fabric on the dash panel as well (to break up all the black) Would love some Sheels but they seem hard and $$$ to come by. I’m also thinking of deleting all the carpet and just putting down some 914 fitted mats. I’ll definitely look into the short shifter as well. I pretty much did the suspension as you suggested (lowered) Need to get the black paint off the rims and go stock there as well. Keep the suggestions coming.

Posted by: stevesc_us Jan 2 2022, 12:28 AM

I’m no expert on Scheel seats, but these appear to be the real deal at a price that to me appears to be pretty reasonable given how rare they are. Pete, could you weigh in on what you think of these?

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/dealtank-vintage-scheel-seats/

Posted by: mepstein Jan 2 2022, 08:55 AM

They are Scheel 114’s but the price is a bid. There was an unknown reserve and seller says bid is well below.

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jan 2 2022, 11:21 AM

Right on, and you're welcome. You're on a great path with your 914, and it'll likely go a long, long time without developing rust at the sails if the areas are in good shape when the vinyl goes on. Interior is a great place to experiment over time, and cloth seat centers in a 914 are game changers—so much nicer than vinyl or leather on hot day, and grippier too. Let me know if you want to test sit Scheels some time…they definitely aren't for everyone. Best path with them, in my opinion, is to simply keep an eye out. And count on redoing even nice old ones…so there isn't much point in paying for nice finishes so long as a total rebuild isn't needed.

Was out on the Breakfast Club Rally yesterday, and had a lot of fun. Would be great to see another 914 active in the North Bay. In a strange twist from my childhood here in the Bay Area, I see Lambos more often than 914s these days…

Posted by: KELTY360 Jan 2 2022, 05:58 PM

This comment may come too late but I like your direction. I had the same decision with my ‘74 2.0. Deleted the warts and sail vinyl and am pleased with how clean those changes made the car. You won’t be sorry.

Posted by: stevesc_us Jan 3 2022, 12:41 AM

They’re actually in the Deal Tank section with a buy it now price of $2k so that price is known.

Posted by: burton73 Jan 3 2022, 02:49 PM

Frankie, 914 and PMB Brother.

As far as the Scheel seats go, $2,000 is not bad at all if they fit your ass OK.
Look over my Build from PMB and look at what we had to do with the Scheel seat to fit me in a more comfortable way at 6ft 220 lb.
The 30th 914-6 #41 build: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=307620

Look at the work done by PMB from Advice and paint on. Custom sound, custom interior.
All PMB custom.

Good luck

Bob B

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 4 2022, 01:01 PM

Ok. Vacation is over and the guys are getting back to work in a big way. Old heat exchangers look shot. Time to pony up and pick up some SS versions. I’m not sure if the quality of these vary from manufacturer to manufacturer but any suggestions helpful. Did look on E bay, saw some used as well as new. Probably (as everything else is new) probably splurge and get a new set,

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 4 2022, 01:05 PM

Also, as is the common case, longs needed a bit of love and some new sheet metal.

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 4 2022, 01:09 PM

Also removed the A/C compressor. I really didn’t feel I needed it living in NOR CAL but it is unique in that it was dealer installed and I have the whole unit. Will try to sell not sure value of it? It was operating before I removed it.

Posted by: BillJ Jan 4 2022, 02:32 PM

Not worth a whole lot actually. Usually the compressor is substituted for a modern less hp hungry version. The blower that is inside the car may have some value for those looking to keep original and holding on to mounting bracketry amd pulley setups may make for great ease in case someone wants to use them again. Unfortunately not overly valuable. My parts source has probably 5 or more full original setups in storage.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 4 2022, 03:06 PM

Wow... you're on top of it! I was watching him weld that in this morning!

You're almost rust free. This week should wrap it up!

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 10 2022, 04:12 PM

I think the price of the Scheels is a bit high. I'm now coming to the "overrated" conclusion. Every Scheel we've been into has been broken or in need of frame repair. They are made rather "cheap" in my book. There's a small welded frame inside and it will not withstand years of using the bolster to get in and out of a 914.

Not a big deal if you're going in there and reupholstering the seat. We weld in the repair and we weld in extra frame support to make them work but... all that said, you can easily be upside down in a Scheel. They're gorgeous, don't get me wrong... I just think there's better values out there.

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 12 2022, 03:29 PM

Hi fellow forum folks.some more resto porn out there for you. Driving lights looked pretty bad decided to just go with replacements and possible do the 118’s at a later date as they seem relatively pricey.

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 12 2022, 03:34 PM

I’m especially pleased with the new trunk metal as the old one had a huge hole in it from a horribly installed A/C compressor.

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 12 2022, 03:36 PM

Now the extra goodies start being added. Chassis stiffening kit installed! Woo Hoo. Canyon carving here I come!

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 12 2022, 03:43 PM

Had a nice little chat with Eric and decided that if I’m going this deep into this restoration, and that I already had the motor out, I might as well take the plunge and go with an upgrade and build the 2.0 up to a 2258 motor. Initially I had deemed my original 2.0 was strong enough to keep as is but the temptation for more power/torque was too much to ignore. Really excited about this, not as excited about how much extra work I have to take on to pay for this though! LOL.
Eric thanks for the input on the Scheel seat discussion. I agree completely. I will start looking at possible alternatives or just stay with the stockers.

Posted by: eric9144 Jan 12 2022, 06:26 PM

And that my friend is the slippery slope.
It's in very good hands, it's going to be freaking awesome!

Posted by: eric9144 Jan 12 2022, 06:37 PM

Agree on the Scheel's too, don't get me wrong, I'm a fan, have a pair of Konigs on the shelf in the garage, but they're a bit overrated compared to options that are out there now... They sit a bit proud, you loose a bit of headroom and leg room and if you're a 32", maybe 34" waist they're great, anything 34" up and you'll likely hate them, also the adjustable head rests on the ones with that feature, get stuck and tend never to want to come back up, and they tend to make operating the parking brake a bit of a pain too.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 15 2022, 11:54 AM

The team did the final walk through on Frank’s tub yesterday. He is officially a “rust free” teener. This week we’ll move on to seam sealer and paint prep. Come’on out Frank!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 15 2022, 11:57 AM

How cool. I am so looking forward to pictures. I know Frank is really excited about his car being in your capable hands Eric.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 22 2022, 04:25 PM

We’ll start seam sealing next week. She was working double duty yesterday as we templated the frame jig with her pristine body.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 23 2022, 10:23 AM

There is just something about a 914 chassis all bare like that.....

Posted by: mb911 Jan 23 2022, 04:25 PM

That's awesome..

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 2 2024, 10:37 PM

Been I while since I posted. Here is some updates of the work done over this last year. Enjoy!
Finishing up metal work.

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 2 2024, 10:43 PM

Keep sanding..

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 2 2024, 10:49 PM

Primer!

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 2 2024, 10:52 PM

Fresh paint!

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 2 2024, 10:59 PM

..this is the point I had a hiccup..after understanding I was getting a lot more power/performance with the motor rebuild I thought it would be prudent for me to add an oil cooler. Unfortunately, this realization came after I had it painted the car! So, here we go cutting up some nicely newly painted metal…oops

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 2 2024, 11:08 PM

More oil cooler and beyond pics…I was kinda belligerent about not cutting up the front panel of the nose and using the factory holes as my air inlet. I also chose to go with a louvered vented floor panel (not what they usually do) and hard oil lines…maybe not the most efficient way to cool but I liked the look and cleanliness of this method. Thanks for putting up with me (PMB). First pic is of a car I really loved at Lüftgeküllt. If you look close you can see the stock nose holes in this car behind the bumper cutout. last pic is of our esteemed forum contributor (and my advisor) Michaels car, which inspired me to copy this look. Stock with a some teeth showing!

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 2 2024, 11:22 PM

Next and current drama…seats….first HUGE SHOUT OUT TO WARD AT VINTAGE SEATS! He has been a true gentleman and first class service and timeliness! If you are looking for aftermarket seats this is the place to go! These are a little more $$$ than some of the other seat builders but they are top notch, perfect fit, and look the business! These are exact replicas of the LeMans winning GT seats. First pic is of Wards standard design…I wanted to do a tartan, specifically, copy Magnus’ 911 seat (second picture). Seats came out great (third picture) but I did not communicate clearly about laying the pattern specifically a certain way, and although subtle, it didn’t come out the way I wanted. NOT WARD’S FAULT! Anyway, seats are back at his shop while I contemplate next move. I am considering doing woven inserts from Achtung Kraft. Pricey. Super unique. Definitely a nod to Singer…also want to add whatever I end up with on the seats to face of the dash but not the door panels…

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 2 2024, 11:26 PM

Not to press an already stressful topic but I played around with the fabric…using a seat from my 94 FD3S R2 Mazda..I laid the fabric the two different ways. Can you guys see the difference? Am I batshit crazy? Thoughts on the material or any other suggestions?
Chime in! The last pic is of a woven leather interior. Not the colors (obviously) I would go with for my car but as an idea kind of cool.

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 2 2024, 11:33 PM

..so hope you enjoyed pics..didn’t publish everything but you get the gist..Huge thanks to the guys over at PMB! THANKS ERIC AND CO…
Just ordered the Rennspeed shifter with protostick option. The pedalboard and passenger floorboard with pedal covers along with auxiliary 3 gauge pod (as I plan to eliminate the console and install 3 auxiliary gauges in the dash where the radio would go) from THOROTEC all in anodized black. I am not running back pad or carpet in a the car so everything needs to look finished (I had interior painted to same standard as exterior) Please let me know what you think or questions you have..

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 2 2024, 11:50 PM

BTW shout out to and big thanks Michael (Cairo 94507) you have been my guiding light and go to guru throughout this build! Thanks for answering all my texts and endless questions! Can’t wait to go for a cruise with you and your amazing 6 although it will be hard for me to keep up with you after you install that new beast of a motor!

Posted by: SteveL Jan 3 2024, 07:34 AM

This is the first time I have read through this thread - one question:
Did you have the car dipped to start with? If so, how did PMB keep it from rusting while doing the metal work?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 3 2024, 07:49 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=17945 - Thank you for the kind words; my pleasure to discuss 914's always. Your car is looking great. Before you know it you will be behind the wheel enjoying all that work. Can't wait to see it in person.

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 3 2024, 10:19 AM

Steve L, no the car was not dipped. I do believe the car was media blasted. Not sure what media PMB uses but I this is definitely not the first time at the rodeo for them so there is a level of trust that that I have in knowing what they are doing. As far as preventing flash rusting goes I don’t know the answer to that.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 3 2024, 10:35 AM

Flash rust shouldn't be a problem in UT. In TX, SC or FL, etc, yes. Touching with bare hands is guaranteed to make bare metal rust no matter the climate. Great work as usual Eric. "You're in Good Hands with..........." , No, that's Allstate. You're in Great Hands with PMB!

Posted by: JmuRiz Jan 3 2024, 11:46 AM

Sounds like mine, engine scope creep made an after-bodywork-was-finished change needed for a front cooler.

PMB should stamp those metal shrouds. Remind me a lot of the one-off Scotty made long ago. LOTS of work if not a stamped part.

Posted by: burton73 Jan 3 2024, 12:41 PM

Seat on right looks better IMHO but what the hell do you like. This is on your dime. In the end you will have spent a large amount of money at PMB. Do what you want to do.

I spend a lot of time looking at my PMB 6 build in my cave and that gives me great pleasure.

Bob B owner of PMB build of number 41

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 3 2024, 06:43 PM

Vintage Seats are awesome. I installed a set in a 72 Targa.

Posted by: burton73 Jan 3 2024, 08:54 PM

Picture of the Scheel seat strip naked by Dale when did the modification to widen it slightly, it looks really bad inside, nasty welding but this boy is 50 years old.

Best Bob B

Posted by: VaccaRabite Jan 5 2024, 08:09 AM

Hey Frankie - its water under the bridge at this point but you did not need to do that cutting.

I have one of Eric's 2.3i engines in my car. I have a simple Setrab oil cooler in the car under the rear trunk. It keeps my oil temps well in check. i have the fan pack I can put on if needed, but I'll take 200 miles on hot humid summer days this summer and oil never got above 220 with the passive setup. With the fan packs it never got above 115. Zero cutting needed for this setup. Its simple, and its effective. The Setrab /NASCAR cooler is a bit more expensive then the cheaper coolers on the market. But no metal work, no complicated plumbing, and a fully usable front trunk.

You already have the metalwork done, so it does not make sense to take that back. BUT you can stop there if you want and keep the entire front trunk for storage. I've found this to be helpful for taking trips in the car with my GF.

By the way, you are going to love the engine. Its the same amount of power as a 2.7 /6, but minus about 100 pounds.

Food for thought.
Zach

Posted by: Root_Werks Jan 5 2024, 11:25 AM

Cool build thread for sure. Probably my favorite colors on 914's are the blues.

Looks good!

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 10 2024, 05:58 PM

So went over the prep work for the interior/cabin this morning (thanks Tom!)Being the weirdly OCD guy i am and because I decided a while ago not to go with carpets and a back pad we decided to do a beauty panel over the tranny tunnel from the console box forward. Just wondering if anyone else out there has done this and if so if they could share some pics. I know some of you will suggest just putting in the appearance package gauge console, but I prefer the more open look and am going to mount the gauges in THOROTEC’s gauge pod in the dash.

Posted by: JamesM Jan 11 2024, 01:50 AM

Has anyone warned you about the level of noise in the cabin with a bare metal interior? One of my 914s that I used only for autocross for the last 15 years (the tangerine car going back together at PMB) had nothing on the interior but the door panels and the center carpet piece covering the tunnel/wiring. It was a very harsh experience. So much so that now that I am rebuilding it its getting full carpet AND added sound deadening even though I still plan on autocrossing it. For me the comfort is worth a little bit of added weight. Having 914s with bare metal interior, full interior, and full interior with added sound deadening I can say that there is noticeable difference in the feel and comfort level the further you move from bare metal.

Posted by: frankieshooz Jan 12 2024, 03:41 PM

Hi James, yes. You are not the first person to mention this. However, I run my FD3S the same way and it does not bother me in the least. Maybe I am a little more deaf! LOL. I figure worse comes to worse I can always take the route you are doing and add that stuff down the road.