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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ New TIG welder thoughts
Posted by: obscurity Jan 24 2022, 11:59 AM
I would like to buy a TIG welder and give it a try. What do you suggest I look at? I need it to be 110V capable as my garage has no 220V. I plan to weld mostly sheet metal and have a MIG if I need to go much thicker. It does not have to do aluminum but it wouldn't hurt. What have I been looking at?
Eastwood TIG200
Primeweld TIG225x - Leaning toward this one
Vulcan Protig205
I know there are those who will say that I should buy a $3500 Miller but that is not realistically in he cards for me as I am by no means a professional nor will I ever be. I just like learning new things and developing new skills. This will be a weekend warrior machine and not for everyday use. As you can see from the list above I have been looking in the $800-1,200 range. Most of these machines have a pedal, pulse and are AC/DC.
Anyone have any of these or should I be looking elsewhere?
Posted by: Superhawk996 Jan 24 2022, 12:20 PM
I have a Lincoln Precision TIG225 so I'll offer up my opinion. They guy you really want the opinion of is @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 .
My thoughts:
Forget about TIG if you don't have 220v. If you already have 110v to garage it really shouldn't be big $ to get 220V out there. I'd invest in that power upgrade 1st. Also comes in handy for other things like air compressors.
Buy a good unit once. Better to save up for a while and/or buy a used Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, or quality unit once than to mess with lower quality units.
A quality inverter based TIG can be had for about $2400 + tank.
https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/lincoln-square-wave-tig-200-welder-k5126-1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItZe-uv_K9QIVax-tBh3RBAI1EAQYASABEgKGQ_D_BwE
110v really limits your options for welders. Though I agree you don't need 220v to weld steel sheetmetal, you'll need it for other materials like Aluminum which require more current. I've TIG'd 0.064" copper and that takes about 180A!
TIG welding isn't fundamentally different than oxy-acetylene welding as far as technique goes. It's all about heat control and filler rod control. It takes a long time to get good to get the stack of dimes TIG look. Even harder if you're welding out of position on a car instead of a benchtop. So if you need work on technique, you can get practially the same thing by mastering oxy acetylene work.
Finally, a good 110v MIG is way more affordable. If you don't already have a MIG unit, conisder starting there.
Posted by: mb911 Jan 24 2022, 01:07 PM
Oh geez well your gonna get the 20 plus year college welding instructor response from me.. I have used state of the art welding equipment my whole professional career. I have tried all of the name brand stuff and have an opinion of each. I have trained 1000s of professional welders. That all said please know that TIG welding is hands down the hardest skill set to master. Though you mention that is not your goal so that is out of the way. I have no particular experience with the import welders from Asia but have heard the Eastwood to at least have a good warranty. I have also heard about the I believe it's called the atp or htp on Amazon. They are semi reliable.
My only Real advice is don't expect much from longevity but if I am wrong you got one up on me and 2nd realize there is a reason good TIG welders make 45 plus an hour for their skill sets. The thinner the material the harder to weld.. you will be able to TIG weld it just takes time and lots and lots of patience.
Posted by: obscurity Jan 24 2022, 01:08 PM
I have a Lincoln Precision TIG225 so I'll offer up my opinion. They guy you really want the opinion of is @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 .
My thoughts:
Forget about TIG if you don't have 220v. If you already have 110v to garage it really shouldn't be big $ to get 220V out there. I'd invest in that power upgrade 1st. Also comes in handy for other things like air compressors.
Buy a good unit once. Better to save up for a while and/or buy a used Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, or quality unit once than to mess with lower quality units.
A quality inverter based TIG can be had for about $2400 + tank.
https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/lincoln-square-wave-tig-200-welder-k5126-1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItZe-uv_K9QIVax-tBh3RBAI1EAQYASABEgKGQ_D_BwE
110v really limits your options for welders. Though I agree you don't need 220v to weld steel sheetmetal, you'll need it for other materials like Aluminum which require more current. I've TIG'd 0.064" copper and that takes about 180A!
TIG welding isn't fundamentally different than oxy-acetylene welding as far as technique goes. It's all about heat control and filler rod control. It takes a long time to get good to get the stack of dimes TIG look. Even harder if you're welding out of position on a car instead of a benchtop. So if you need work on technique, you can get practically the same thing by mastering oxy acetylene work.
Finally, a good 110v MIG is way more affordable. If you don't already have a MIG unit, consider starting there.
Thanks! I actually already have a 110V MIG and use it quite a bit. What I liked about the three welders I listed is they will run 110V or 220V.
I am looking into getting 220V to the garage but from the looks of it you can need as much as 50A which is quite a bit to added load on the panel. Related to that I only have 1 space left in the current panel so I would have to work a sub panel or share with the dryer which is not a good idea long term. On the plus side the routing would be very easy
Posted by: jd74914 Jan 24 2022, 01:26 PM
I'm a huge HTP Invertig 221 fan, but those are almost $4k so a bit much...IMO welds every bit as nice as a fancy Lincoln or Miller, just made in Italy. 
That said, a buddy has an AHP Alpha-TIG and it welds pretty good. As does another friend's Everlast PowerTIG 250EX. Like Ben said, longevity may be an issue, but realistically, if you aren't running a bead full time this really might not be a problem. The AHP is ~$800 and 250EX ~$1400. Control was pretty good; you can do all the usual part tricks (weld razor blades and soda cans) with either. 
Never tried the HF or Eastwood so no comments there.
I hated both the provided pedals and torches though. Awful IMO, but maybe you won't notice if you haven't spent much time behind a nicer TIG. I have heard the pedals have gotten better lately.
I would highly recommend budgeting some extra cash for a nice CK torch and cable though.
Posted by: mb911 Jan 24 2022, 01:54 PM
On last thing to consider as I have tried the big 3 my favorite smaller multi process machine is the ESAB 205ic rebel. Does all processes really well and takes up little space. Here are the welds it produced yesterday
Posted by: mb911 Jan 24 2022, 01:54 PM
Posted by: obscurity Jan 24 2022, 02:12 PM
On last thing to consider as I have tried the big 3 my favorite smaller multi process machine is the ESAB 205ic rebel. Does all processes really well and takes up little space. Here are the welds it produced yesterday
Wow that Rebel is a dream machine! I wish I had that much $ to spend. It seems to do it all
Posted by: jd74914 Jan 24 2022, 02:14 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 -any thoughts on the ESAB ET 186I? I've been seeing some at near clearance prices (~$1200), but have never used an ESAB machine.
Posted by: mskala Jan 24 2022, 02:51 PM
I have a ThermalArc 186. I have not yet had enough time to really learn TIG welding,
but will get to it. Any opinions on this machine?
Recently installed 240V 50A electric car charge circuit to the garage. Note, according to my interpretation of US taxes, there is a 30% credit on the cost of this. I bought a cheap 4-prong to 3-prong adapter so the welder can also use this plug.
Posted by: targa72e Jan 24 2022, 02:56 PM
I purchased a Everlast 185DV (less than $1K) in 2018 and so far have had no issues with it. I already had a MIG welder as well. I wanted to be able to weld Aluminum and Stainless but did not want to spend a ton for something I will use a few times a year. It is 120/220 capable however to weld Aluminum I had to use 220V to get enough amps (tried on 120 and would trip the breaker) It did not come with a foot pedal (found it essential vs finger switch for a good weld) and I purchased that separately.
I have now welded Aluminum, Stainless and mild steel. I found precise prep before welding to very important. Stainless and Mild steel were easier to get decent at than Aluminum. Aluminum was very hard to learn. It took me 4 big tanks of gas to get ok. I used the welder to weld up a Vellios oil tank for my -6 conversion. I was worried about leaks from the welds but they were all good. The casting on the other hand had many spots with porosity that leaked air when pressure tested and had to weld up the porous spots. Pics of welds on Aluminum tank. So far I am quite happy with the welder, especially for the price.
john
Posted by: Van B Jan 24 2022, 03:35 PM
I was a TIG welder in a former life and still weld as part of the hobby. I recently bought an Alpha TIG 201XD as they were going out of style. However, the new line looks real sweet.
https://ahpwelds.com/catalog/tig
I’ve only used the machine on 120v and it’s been great for the thin stuff. Overall, I prefer a transformer over an inverter machine for aluminum, but these inverter machines still get the job done just fine.
Good luck in your search,
Van
Posted by: mb911 Jan 24 2022, 03:44 PM
I was a TIG welder in a former life and still weld as part of the hobby. I recently bought an Alpha TIG 201XD as they were going out of style. However, the new line looks real sweet.
https://ahpwelds.com/catalog/tig
I’ve only used the machine on 120v and it’s been great for the thin stuff. Overall, I prefer a transformer over an inverter machine for aluminum, but these inverter machines still get the job done just fine.
Good luck in your search,
Van
Hmm that is actually exactly the opposite impression you should have. Inverter machines have way more adjustable parameters for TIG then a transformer. I grew up using a goldstar 200 Amp Miller . Fine for its days but no way given the option would I use a transformer machine now. Just the frequency adjustment makes life so much better for materials that will be anodized
Also a note not to brag but rather to explain perspective. I am a national weld instructor and trainer welding instructors across the country. I have used almost every name brand machine.
Posted by: mb911 Jan 24 2022, 03:51 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 -any thoughts on the ESAB ET 186I? I've been seeing some at near clearance prices (~$1200), but have never used an ESAB machine.
I have not used that one but will tell you ESAB products are top notch.
Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, ESAB, Fronius are all top notch.
Posted by: Van B Jan 24 2022, 03:55 PM
I bought a Lincoln Precision TIG 375 when they first came out in the early 2000’s. That thing was as smooth as butter right up to the limit of it’s duty cycle. When I was welding for a living, I would take that thing to high temp shut down routinely in the summer by pushing big parts at 360-370amps.
I’ve tried several different inverter machines and they’ve all been great. But not quite the same IMO.
I don’t think I’d be so bold in saying I “should” have a different opinion. It is after all based on the thousands of hours and experience I spent under a hood over 20+yrs. But then again, every welder you meet is the best welder ever so, results may vary.
Van
Posted by: mb911 Jan 24 2022, 04:19 PM
I bought a Lincoln Precision TIG 375 when they first came out in the early 2000’s. That thing was as smooth as butter right up to the limit of it’s duty cycle. When I was welding for a living, I would take that thing to high temp shut down routinely in the summer by pushing big parts at 360-370amps.
I’ve tried several different inverter machines and they’ve all been great. But not quite the same IMO.
I don’t think I’d be so bold in saying I “should” have a different opinion. It is after all based on the thousands of hours and experience I spent under a hood over 20+yrs. But then again, every welder you meet is the best welder ever so, results may vary.
Van
Totally get it. Different applications. Probably not anodizing welded parts that required 375 amps to weld them..
Ps the precision TIG is a pretty nice unit. I work extremely close with Lincoln. In fact I will be traveling next week with corporate Lincoln and doing a presentation with them.
Posted by: Van B Jan 24 2022, 04:27 PM
That welder is a reminder of how different (better) our economy was then.
Exact same machine has doubled in price since then!
https://bakersgas.com/products/lincolnprecision375230v-460v-575v-1-60hztigwelder-k2622-2
Posted by: dhuckabay Jan 24 2022, 04:28 PM
I did not like the new prices. Bought a Miller at an industrial auction for $500. Nice having the tig and stick on the same machine. Foot pedal amp control works well.
Posted by: Van B Jan 24 2022, 04:34 PM
That was the winning factor for my Alpha TIG 201XD, it was the cheapest machine with a legit foot pedal. Some of these bargain basement machines give you a pedal that’s got the same response as a light switch…
Posted by: mb911 Jan 24 2022, 04:45 PM
And yes machines have gone crazy. I have a quote in right now and it was 500k worth of machines and last year our quote was 100k less.. crazy
My 205IC I bought 2 years ago was 2500 right now they are almost 4k
Posted by: obscurity Jan 24 2022, 07:38 PM
How about Weldpro Tig200gd?
https://weldpro.com/product/digitial-tig200gd-200-amp-acdc-tig-welder-with-pulse-ck-17/
Also how universal are pedals? Are they easily replaced?
Posted by: mb911 Jan 24 2022, 07:45 PM
How about Weldpro Tig200gd?
https://weldpro.com/product/digitial-tig200gd-200-amp-acdc-tig-welder-with-pulse-ck-17/
Also how universal are pedals? Are they easily replaced?
Not universal and typically the light switch effect is based on the software uploaded to the machine
Posted by: Van B Jan 24 2022, 08:10 PM
I think the rheostat counts a lot toward a consistent impedance signal. But mostly a good wide pedal where you can get consistent foot action is where you’ll find the most reward.
Lots of folks these days are starting to use the triggers that attach to the torch. I never used them because they were only on-off switches in my day. Now, since I just weld for my own projects, I prefer a familiar method over novelty.
Honestly, a lot of these inverters are coming from the same factory in China. What Ben is talking about with software is where the cost really starts to factor in. But, I would say for a hobby TIG welder, you need reliable and good customer service after purchasing.
Van
Posted by: Superhawk996 Jan 24 2022, 08:35 PM
Lots of folks these days are starting to use the triggers that attach to the torch. I never used them because they were only on-off switches in my day. Now, since I just weld for my own projects, I prefer a familiar method over novelty.
Van
Check out TIG button. I've been running one for years. True modulation amptrol on the torch.
https://www.6061.com/tigbutton.htm
I prefer it to the pedal. It is intuitive and very natural. Press harder more current and is pretty linear to how the amperage is set. So if set at 100A the TIG button is linear in that range. Set the machine to 200A, and it's still pretty linear. Set it at 40A on the machine still linear. It just works. Even when you're upside down and laying on your back!
No way I could pull off the out of position TIG welding I've been doing with a foot pedal.
Posted by: Van B Jan 24 2022, 08:39 PM
Out of position is a good point. It’s been years since I’ve welded something that couldn’t move on my own.
Posted by: bkrantz Jan 24 2022, 08:58 PM
I have been reasonably happy with the Eastwood 200 TIG, which can run on 120V. I (really my son) have only used it on 240V.
Posted by: tazz9924 Jan 24 2022, 08:59 PM
weldpro 220 has been awesome for the money, and ive put some mileage on it. Had a ck torch go bad and customer service sent me a replacement for free.
Posted by: obscurity Jan 26 2022, 02:56 PM
weldpro 220 has been awesome for the money, and ive put some mileage on it. Had a ck torch go bad and customer service sent me a replacement for free.
The Weldpro does seem to address some of the noted Primeweld shortcomings but there are not very many reviews of it. What made you chose that one?
Posted by: tazz9924 Jan 26 2022, 05:01 PM
weldpro 220 has been awesome for the money, and ive put some mileage on it. Had a ck torch go bad and customer service sent me a replacement for free.
The Weldpro does seem to address some of the noted Primeweld shortcomings but there are not very many reviews of it. What made you chose that one?
I don’t honestly remember what my reasoning was at the time, ive had it about 3 years now, still running good. It has a ton of features like the finger control it is awesome when you set it up right. Its an aircooled torch so after 20 minutes of straight welding .090 + steel it gets quite hot. But if your back and forth doing stuff it’ll never get hot. I was also once a beginner welder and this was my first machine and i still use it. Is it professional quality? probably not but i do great work with it:
Posted by: AZBanks Jan 26 2022, 06:36 PM
I ordered one of these through their kickstarter campaign. It should be here in the next few weeks.
https://yeswelder.com/products/firstess-mp200
It does tig but not for aluminum or stainless. It does everything else including plasma cutting.
I have no idea if it works well since it's not here yet and I've never done any welding. I am hoping we both turn out to be good welders.
Posted by: Van B Jan 26 2022, 07:23 PM
No difference between steel and stainless steel with regard to machine requirements.
Posted by: tazz9924 Jan 26 2022, 07:34 PM
No difference between steel and stainless steel with regard to machine requirements.
This is true.
Posted by: hex123 Jan 27 2022, 03:05 PM
I have the older version of the alpha tig the one with the analog controls and its plenty for a "home gamer" Dual voltage and It will do Aluminum up to 1/4" it gets good reviews and it is a good bang for the buck.
a review comparing the old and new models https://youtu.be/RRwegGHavgM
company website
https://ahpwelds.com/product/ahp-alphatig-203xi-pre-order-only-ship-date-estimated-end-february-2022
Posted by: Gatornapper Jan 27 2022, 03:36 PM
No Ben - respectfully -they didn't produce those welds. YOU did! Just as guns don't kill people - people use guns to kill people - your great welder didn't produce those beautiful welds - you did.
And they are works of art, flawless.
As an amateur stick & MIG welder of 40 years, I could never produce those. And because of what you noted about TIG (friend can TIG weld like you - has his own welding business), I would never even attempt TIG - especially due to the cost.
But I hope you like what came to me when doing some welding long ago. I asked myself why I love welding so much, and why it's my fav hobby.
1. You don't gotta wait for the glue to dry.
2. When you screw up - which I frequently do - you just pull out the cutting torch and grinder and nobody knows......
GN
On last thing to consider as I have tried the big 3 my favorite smaller multi process machine is the ESAB 205ic rebel. Does all processes really well and takes up little space. Here are the welds it produced yesterday
Posted by: mb911 Jan 27 2022, 04:56 PM
No Ben - respectfully -they didn't produce those welds. YOU did! Just as guns don't kill people - people use guns to kill people - your great welder didn't produce those beautiful welds - you did.
And they are works of art, flawless.
As an amateur stick & MIG welder of 40 years, I could never produce those. And because of what you noted about TIG (friend can TIG weld like you - has his own welding business), I would never even attempt TIG - especially due to the cost.
But I hope you like what came to me when doing some welding long ago. I asked myself why I love welding so much, and why it's my fav hobby.
1. You don't gotta wait for the glue to dry.
2. When you screw up - which I frequently do - you just pull out the cutting torch and grinder and nobody knows......
GN
On last thing to consider as I have tried the big 3 my favorite smaller multi process machine is the ESAB 205ic rebel. Does all processes really well and takes up little space. Here are the welds it produced yesterday
So an interesting data point. I welded 3 tanks this week one on my 205IC one on a newer Miller MP212 and 1 on a Miller dynasty 210.
The best weld quality came on the ESAB 205ic the second best was the Miller MP212 and the worst was the dynasty.
Was surprised by the results.
Posted by: AZBanks Jan 27 2022, 05:27 PM
So an interesting data point. I welded 3 tanks this week one on my 205IC one on a newer Miller MP212 and 1 on a Miller dynasty 210.
The best weld quality came on the ESAB 205ic the second best was the Miller MP212 and the worst was the dynasty.
Was surprised by the results.
For us noobs, can you give a quick rundown on the differences between the the welders?
Posted by: mb911 Jan 27 2022, 06:17 PM
So an interesting data point. I welded 3 tanks this week one on my 205IC one on a newer Miller MP212 and 1 on a Miller dynasty 210.
The best weld quality came on the ESAB 205ic the second best was the Miller MP212 and the worst was the dynasty.
Was surprised by the results.
For us noobs, can you give a quick rundown on the differences between the the welders?
So for 25 years now the dynasty was kind of the premier TIg welding. They started making these inverters in the late 90s and were bullet proof. In about the mid 2000s they sourced less then stellar boards for them and it was common to replace them with little to no time on them but when working they were amazing. Fast forward to now they are really the bar for quality and weld performance.
The MP212 is a Miller multi process machine so you can Stick weld, Mig weld and also TIg steels and aluminum but doesn't do any particularly awesome. They are somewhat new to the market and suffered from poor quality boards initially. That said multiprocess welders are all somewhat new to the market. We have seen big improvements in these type of machines over the last 7 or so years.
The ESAB 205IC is another multi process machine and has much higher level settings. It is also an intuitive machine for MIG and TIg so it adjusts to your welding styles for easier Arc starts and offers a cool pulse MIG feature. The AC TIg has incredible range. That is why I chose it.
I hope that clears up a bit of what I am talking about.
Posted by: AZBanks Mar 14 2022, 02:21 PM
I got a delivery today. The lady who delivers my mail called it a hernia in a box.
I can't wait to try it out even though I have no idea what I am doing.
Posted by: Van B Mar 14 2022, 04:27 PM
Time to go get a bottle of argon!
Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 14 2022, 05:24 PM
Time to go get a bottle of argon!
You think you had sticker shock buying a welder . . . wait until you get the price for argon.
Precise control of heat and complete lack of the shower of sparks makes it all worthwhile though!
Posted by: iankarr Mar 14 2022, 11:05 PM
If your electric panel is maxed out, you can swap some of the breakers with half-size units to create more space. I’ve had to do that several times. So don let a full panel keep you from adding 220 to your shop!
Posted by: IronHillRestorations Mar 15 2022, 08:13 AM
FWIW I took a vo-tec welding night class years ago specifically for learning to TIG weld. I spent the first four (3 hour) classes just TIG welding surface beads. I got good but not as good as I wanted to be.
My typical advice for guys getting a new MIG welder is to practice, practice, practice before you touch your car with it. Then practice more. With TIG you should triple or quadruple your practice time.
Pretty much anyone can learn to MIG in a reasonable amount of time. Not everyone will learn to make good TIG welds.
Posted by: AZBanks Mar 15 2022, 01:54 PM
If your electric panel is maxed out, you can swap some of the breakers with half-size units to create more space. I’ve had to do that several times. So don let a full panel keep you from adding 220 to your shop!
I close on a new house/property between now and April 8th. The plan is to build a 2400 sq/ft shop with 220, 2 post lift, 3 compartment stainless steel sink, big compressor, etc, etc.
This welder will do both 110 and 220 so I can do some small stuff while I am building the shop.
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