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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Fuel injection issues? Possibly run carbs?
Posted by: bmtrnavsky Apr 19 2022, 01:52 PM
My 914 has been sidelined since 2012 for a number of reasons but was parked not running. Pulled it out of mothballs and hauled it over to the local vintage Porsche mechanic who said my impulse sender had no signal. He said he was unable to source parts for it and was unsure if replacing that part would get it back on the road his recommendation was to convert to Weber 40's. I'm not rich so I understand his hesitancy to open what could be a very expensive can of worms.
So here is where my questions start
I'm just looking for a solid running reliable car that I can drive on trips and maybe autocross 2-3x per year.
anyone have a source on the impulse senders? can they be rebuilt?
Is the Carb it advice good?
I have a basically stock 2.0 with hydraulic lifters and a very mild cam.
Will I have to change my cam to convert it?
what's the best carb? I have seen 34's 40's and 44's people seem to do all three are there pros and cons to each setup?
Can I get this conversion done for around $1500 in parts and is it a achievable project for an average mechanic? I suck with electrical but I have plenty of tools and am not afraid to learn as I go. I have done head gaskets and other mid level projects before.
Posted by: brant Apr 19 2022, 01:59 PM
which motor and injection system are on the car?
you can learn fuel injection
there is a lot of experts around here
I am not familiar with your mechanic's term of "impulse injector"
as there is no part with that name... so the mechanic is talking about something with a different name...
possibly the MPS
manifold Pressure Sensor
but there are other items it could be.
I'd look up brad anders website and read it 3x
then go part by part and test each of your Fuel injection components
some description of how it was "running poorly" when it was parked would help also
If you fix it yourself... your probably talking about a few hundred dollars
you may do other maintenance things like changing out all of the vacuum lines while your there... and that could cost a little extra... but should not run up to the 1500 limit your expecting for the carbs.
The Fuel injection system is not very happy with cam lift.
so depending on which cam you put in... that may matter also
brant
Posted by: BK911 Apr 19 2022, 02:01 PM
I swapped over to carbs for the same reason; parts were just hard to find and I got tired of trouble shooting the FI system.
Now parts are a LOT more available, and the FI knowledge is more accessible.
However, I still do not have ANY regrets making the swap.
Cleaner engine bay and easier trouble shooting.
You can pull your existing FI and put on a set of carbs with minimal effort.
I went with the EMPI HPMX 40s.
Pretty easy install.
Posted by: nditiz1 Apr 19 2022, 02:08 PM
You can carb it!
You will not need to change the cam, you should as the one that is in it is probably setup for FI, but you don't need to. You did say it is a mild one. Which one is in there?
You can do it for under $1500 depending on your mechanics labor rate. The carbs run close to $1000 I believe for a set of 40 Webers. 40 Webers are what you should go with. You will need a different Fuel pump or a really good regulator to drop down the FI pump. The linkage is where you can spend a lot or a little.
Tangerine Sync Link - Set them and forget them $300
CSP - good quality center pull system $150
Hex bar - Cheap garbage. Will work at first then start to deteriorate free when you buy a kit
The $1000 kit should also contain the manifolds. You may need to buy the phelonic? spacers/gaskets between the intakes and the heads.
So you can see you get pretty close to the $1500 mark in just parts. I feel carbs are very reliable and simple.
BUT but BUT but BUT...
FI does work well when it has no vac leaks or wire issues and was meant for that engine. It is reliable once it is all working. You can probably get almost a completely refreshed FI system for $1500 or under. I don't like dabbling in the dark magic as my brain is too simple to work with complex wires and hoses and wires and thingies. From what I have worked with is runs nice. The jury is still out on whether I like djet or ljet more. If you replace the wire harness and the vac lines and test all the components individually, replacing the ones out of spec, you should be pretty close to a reliably running car. Also, learn the items yourself since most mechanics don't know the simplest spell in an ancient old magic.
Posted by: bmtrnavsky Apr 19 2022, 02:25 PM
which motor and injection system are on the car?
you can learn fuel injection
there is a lot of experts around here
I am not familiar with your mechanic's term of "impulse injector"
as there is no part with that name... so the mechanic is talking about something with a different name...
possibly the MPS
manifold Pressure Sensor
but there are other items it could be.
I'd look up brad anders website and read it 3x
then go part by part and test each of your Fuel injection components
some description of how it was "running poorly" when it was parked would help also
If you fix it yourself... your probably talking about a few hundred dollars
you may do other maintenance things like changing out all of the vacuum lines while your there... and that could cost a little extra... but should not run up to the 1500 limit your expecting for the carbs.
The Fuel injection system is not very happy with cam lift.
so depending on which cam you put in... that may matter also
brant
The part was the impulse sender that he could not find. So far I have not been able to either but said part does seem to exist. I googled it and found it for lots of other cars. for the 914 its NLA. Is there ayone that sells used parts for this?
Posted by: Superhawk996 Apr 19 2022, 02:40 PM
. . . . local vintage Porsche mechanic who said my impulse sender had no signal.
The blinker fluid is also hard to come by.
Signed:
Resident smart
Time for a new mechanic in my opinion. I've been in the automotive industry for 27 years and have no idea what is meant by an impulse sender in the context of a 914.
It could be interpreted to be any sort of Hall Effect sensor (Crankshaft, camshaft, speedometer, ABS sensor, etc.). Of which, the 914 Fuel Injection system has zero.
Could it mean:
Injector trigger points? Maybe -- but can be obtained with some work.
Ignition points -- These are definitely available so suspect that isn't what he means.
Source for trigger points in a pinch - not completely unavailable.
Posted by: brant Apr 19 2022, 02:49 PM
all of the FI parts are out there...
even if it means rebuilding the MPS yourself with a diaphram from CFR
but I still have no idea what an IMPULSE sender is.
that is the wrong word for what ever part he is trying to describe.
maybe call the mechanic and get him to explain what an "impulse sender" does... then we can translate it into the correct term to help
I like superhawks idea... he might mean the trigger points in the distributor
like I said... anything can be found, even if its in the form of a good used one...
but you have to know the correct label for "impulse sender" before you can search one.
if you found something on the internet, maybe send us a picture of it
also... as a warning... there are very few mechanics left that still know this injection system. most of those guys are long gone, and all cars quit using Djet sometime in the late 1970's
so I would be highly suspect of any mechanic's diagnosis
unless they specialized in old volkswagens, most of them have no clue
even if its the "impulse injector" and you buy one... your mechanic could be far off.
I'd test it myself before spending the money. How did he test it? How did he diagnose it? Like I said... most mechanics have no clue when it comes to antique fuel injection
and that is likely the reason that most mechanics just want to sell you a set of carbs...
because 99% of them don't know how to fix it.
brant
Posted by: Superhawk996 Apr 19 2022, 02:52 PM
On a more pleasant note:
If you are limited on monetary resources, carbs are a very viable option but if you are unable to do the work on them yourself, you will quickly find that they they too can be maintenance intensive over a couple years time which could put you right back at the mercy of a good mechanic as they age and need rebuilds.
Getting harder and harder to find mechanics that are good with carbs 
.
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Apr 19 2022, 02:53 PM
keep the fuel injection call for advice, do not incur needless expense, do not devalue your car and make it unreliable
My 914 has been sidelined since 2012 for a number of reasons but was parked not running. Pulled it out of mothballs and hauled it over to the local vintage Porsche mechanic who said my impulse sender had no signal. He said he was unable to source parts for it and was unsure if replacing that part would get it back on the road his recommendation was to convert to Weber 40's. I'm not rich so I understand his hesitancy to open what could be a very expensive can of worms.
So here is where my questions start
I'm just looking for a solid running reliable car that I can drive on trips and maybe autocross 2-3x per year.
anyone have a source on the impulse senders? can they be rebuilt?
Is the Carb it advice good?
I have a basically stock 2.0 with hydraulic lifters and a very mild cam.
Will I have to change my cam to convert it?
what's the best carb? I have seen 34's 40's and 44's people seem to do all three are there pros and cons to each setup?
Can I get this conversion done for around $1500 in parts and is it a achievable project for an average mechanic? I suck with electrical but I have plenty of tools and am not afraid to learn as I go. I have done head gaskets and other mid level projects before.
Posted by: brant Apr 19 2022, 02:56 PM
which motor and injection system are on the car?
you can learn fuel injection
there is a lot of experts around here
I am not familiar with your mechanic's term of "impulse injector"
as there is no part with that name... so the mechanic is talking about something with a different name...
possibly the MPS
manifold Pressure Sensor
but there are other items it could be.
I'd look up brad anders website and read it 3x
then go part by part and test each of your Fuel injection components
some description of how it was "running poorly" when it was parked would help also
If you fix it yourself... your probably talking about a few hundred dollars
you may do other maintenance things like changing out all of the vacuum lines while your there... and that could cost a little extra... but should not run up to the 1500 limit your expecting for the carbs.
The Fuel injection system is not very happy with cam lift.
so depending on which cam you put in... that may matter also
brant
The part was the impulse sender that he could not find. So far I have not been able to either but said part does seem to exist. I googled it and found it for lots of other cars. for the 914 its NLA. Is there ayone that sells used parts for this?
please tell us what year and motor you have
there are 2 different (stock) fuel injection systems for a 914
one is called Djet
the other is Ljet
different components and theory
so you have to tell use which system you have
EDIT
I just saw your signature
if its stock components for a 1973 2.0
then you have a Djet system
sorry I didn't see that previously.
Posted by: PCH Apr 19 2022, 04:53 PM
The good news: it's probably something really simple to fix.
The bad news: it will take less time to install the carbs than it will take you take you diagnosis the problem with the FI.
Posted by: JamesM Apr 19 2022, 04:55 PM
I'm just looking for a solid running reliable car that I can drive on trips and maybe autocross 2-3x per year.
You probably don't want carbs then.
Yes they will work, but they will be neither as solid running or as reliable as sorted fuel injection.
While the engineering behind D-jet is pretty complicated the actual troubleshooting and maintenance of it is pretty simple once you familiarize yourself with it. As stated, check out Brand Anders D-jet site. There are really only a couple major components that will cause serious issues and they are fairly simple to bench test.
Posted by: Lockwodo Apr 19 2022, 05:32 PM
I'm a newby here and am working on getting the FI system on my '74 2.0 up to snuff. Not that complicated. Anyway, Brad Anders has a discussion about the tradeoffs between the stock D-Jet FI system and carburetors which has some interesting information and perspective:
https://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/carbs.htm
Posted by: mtndawg Apr 19 2022, 05:40 PM
I've owned a car with carbs and a car with stock FI. The FI required less maintenance and tinkering. If you already have the FI, just clean it up and make it work.
Posted by: 914werke Apr 19 2022, 05:55 PM
What hasn't been brought up (in this thread) that bears repeating ....
FUEL! The fuel mixes today SUCK unless you are fortunate & buying
non-ethanol fuel.
Unless you are driving the car daily these fuels exacerbate the challenges with carbed cars.
Posted by: burton73 Apr 19 2022, 06:22 PM
All I can say is with my Porsche cars with FI, they start right up. It never mattered if my car sat for 6 months with a battery tender on it started right up. This is with fuel for California. I say FI is best. I am thinking of putting FI on my RAT Eng. that has carbs now
Yes, this engine was in one of Oscars cars
Bob B. 
Posted by: r_towle Apr 19 2022, 07:06 PM
Carbs FTW
I do believe an impulse sender is what we call a bar tender up here on Mass.
All joking aside, just fix the FI
It’s most likely something stupid simple.
Posted by: r_towle Apr 19 2022, 07:13 PM
Looking at your location quickly I found
Modern Aircooled
And
Victory motors
Koby
And a few others
Houston has a decent Porsche car culture so I suggest you might want to look around for a shop that remembers how to work on your era of air cooled classic Porsches and VW because the FI is basically the same.
Posted by: emerygt350 Apr 19 2022, 07:22 PM
It can only be the trigger points (although impulse has such a nice star trek ring to it). I would suggest spending 400 on a 123 ignition as the triggers are getting to unobtainium and that will also address the points issues. The rest of the djet is available and reliable and we can help you sort it out.
Just fyi, my 73 2.0 djet was near basket case due to well meaning mechanics. It cost me about 1000 dollars to get it running perfectly. 4 injectors, rebuilt mps, new hoses, cleaning, and some new boots and gaskets, the new 123dizzy, and more gauges than god.
Posted by: 930cabman Apr 20 2022, 06:06 AM
I swapped over to carbs for the same reason; parts were just hard to find and I got tired of trouble shooting the FI system.
Now parts are a LOT more available, and the FI knowledge is more accessible.
However, I still do not have ANY regrets making the swap.
Cleaner engine bay and easier trouble shooting.
You can pull your existing FI and put on a set of carbs with minimal effort.
I went with the EMPI HPMX 40s.
Pretty easy install.
Ditto for me. From my perspective working with 50 years old electronics is just too problematic. I have done the conversion with several cars and never looked back.
Sure, when the Bosch FI system was new, it was unbeatable, but she has her issues when old.
Posted by: rhodyguy Apr 20 2022, 10:01 AM
Going carbs? Figure out which distributor you are going to use. Buy a carb balancing tool. Add a fuel pump for carbs that is self regulated, figure out where you intend to mount the pump, buy the CB Weber manual, don't buy a cross bar linkage dependent on springs to keep it centered, replace every piece of fuel line with line for modern fuels, new fuel sock in the tank, phenolic spacers/gaskets under the intakes. Stock up on patience.
Posted by: Superhawk996 Apr 20 2022, 12:37 PM
Before I add more, let me say I'm in the camp of keeping FI if at all possible.
However, going to carbs is pretty darn simple let's not make it out to be rocket science. I figured it out as a 20 year old bone head. K-mart tools and timing light were about all I had back in those days.
We put so many rules on folks (yes I know I do too . . ). The best 914 is one that is driven!
My 1.7L carb conversion broke all the rules we know all know to be DAPO stuff in hindsight:
Dual 40 IDF's that came with venturi's that were too large and poor out of the box jetting
OEM FI cam 
No phonelic manifold spacers. Later just stacked about two or three more gaskets. 
I swapped to the 009 centrifugal advance distributor (it was all the rage in the 80's for VW's) with a translucent / clear red distributor cap 
Facet 3 psi fuel pump - noisy SOB
Rubber lines in the tunnel (replaced plastic after the metal stubs) since the plastic lines had cracked 
Round crossbar / stamped steel linkage (slippage galore 
). An aluminum Hex bar would have been a serious upgrade. 
Some sort of throttle cable holder made out a piece of 1/8" strap iron that I bent up and attached to the case via case bolt. 
Uni-syn carb sync tool (cheapest out there 
)
And those are just the dumb 
things I can remember not to mention all the hard lessons I learned along the way about jetting, cam choices, etc.
But you know what . . . . it ran . . . it drove 
and i fell in love 
Posted by: jdamiano Apr 20 2022, 06:22 PM
I have the stock FI, in a box in my shed in case anyone after I die wants to put it back on. I have the Redline Weber 40 kit on my car with the Petronix distributor and coil, a whatever electric fuel pump and regulator. I still have the stock cam and it runs great. I originally put a 009 distributor but the curve on the Petronix suites the conversion much better. Let me know and I can send you links to all the parts you need for pretty much a bolt on conversation.
Posted by: Lockwodo Apr 20 2022, 08:59 PM
I have the stock FI, in a box in my shed in case anyone after I die wants to put it back on. I have the Redline Weber 40 kit on my car with the Petronix distributor and coil, a whatever electric fuel pump and regulator. I still have the stock cam and it runs great. I originally put a 009 distributor but the curve on the Petronix suites the conversion much better. Let me know and I can send you links to all the parts you need for pretty much a bolt on conversation.
Hi there jdamiano. I for one would certainly like to have those links, I'm sure they will come in handy in the future. If you could add them to the post here that would be great, or email them to me at lockwood107@gmail.com. Thanks, Doug
Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 21 2022, 06:08 AM
You could always go aftermarket EFI...
This is a kit for a 356. If you already have carbs, you can bold this on a 914 in a few hours. The only thing you will have to do is to extend a the power lead and the O2 sensor lead, and weld in the O2 bung. It will start and run out of the box, but it will need tuning because this is tuned for a 1800CC 356 engine.
I have driven a 356 with this kit. It starts with the turn of a key, it idles great with no issues, and it out performs the exact same car with carbs on it.
Check it out here: https://www.allzim.com/store/356-parts/efi-conversion-parts/356-efi-conversion-faq.html
Or call Aaron at 800-356-2964 or 817-267-4451 for more info.
I know Aaron is working on a kit for a 914 that will use the original throttle body and runners. But it is not done yet.
Clay
Posted by: 930cabman Apr 21 2022, 07:00 AM
How can you not like this setup?
Budget $$?
Posted by: rhodyguy Apr 21 2022, 07:27 AM
The 356 kit is $3495. Plus any options not included in the basic kit.
Posted by: DRPHIL914 Apr 21 2022, 07:50 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=8245
to the OP -
i am guessing the impulse sender he is referring to is the MPS the round silver thing, probably was shot when the car was parked. You can rebuild it with a kit from Tangerine racing or source one from someone here, or Jeff Bowlsby will rebuild yours and tune it for factory setting, you will fine tune it- read PB Anders--- Jeff makes new FI harnesses and the alternator harnesses from him or 914rubber.
IF the FI points plate is bad , there are some out there, i have several, someone will sell one to you, and you can put a Petronix or Compufire electronic points module in the top end OR just spend $400 get the 123ignition distributor and eliminate all of that.
new CHT sensors are available, good functioning AFR are out there.
Get all new vac hoses from Dr914- George at AA and all new fuel lines, new spacers and seals, throttle body gasket and intake runner gaskets., your injector seals should be replaced too, .
I am in the keep the FI camp on this one, and to say that parts are hard to come by for the d-jet system is just not accurate anymore at all! there is not one part for my 2.0 d-jet that you cant get new or NOS or reman. its old so what ever you do you will need to clean your tank and lines and get a new pump and filter.
when i bought my car 12 years ago, all it needed was clean tank, new lines and a new MPS, it fired right up. took less than a weekend, all the information i needed was right here on world or in the Haynes Manual and PB anders site.
So YES you can spend less than $1500 and replace all that with new and refresh your motor drive it and enjoy it.
FI once set will be less maintenance than the carb solution, been there done that got the t-shirt.
Posted by: GeorgeKopf Apr 21 2022, 07:54 AM
As for after market EFI, I was looking at these:
http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html
and
http://thedubshop.com/dual-throttle-body-fuel-injection-package-with-ignition-type-4/
Posted by: DRPHIL914 Apr 21 2022, 09:08 AM
As for after market EFI, I was looking at these:
http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html
and
http://thedubshop.com/dual-throttle-body-fuel-injection-package-with-ignition-type-4/
Ethan from Jacksonville Florida aka bearfoot garage on youtube has done a
Haltech EFT conversion.
Phil
Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 21 2022, 10:26 AM
As for after market EFI, I was looking at these:
http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html
and
http://thedubshop.com/dual-throttle-body-fuel-injection-package-with-ignition-type-4/
LOL... the "Idle up valve" that SDSEFI sells is a Ford Pickup fuel tank switching valve. I put them on 914s with stock injection to idle up the engine with the AC running.
Posted by: JamesM Apr 21 2022, 01:24 PM
You could always go aftermarket EFI...
I know Aaron is working on a kit for a 914 that will use the original throttle body and runners. But it is not done yet.
Clay
This is always the best solution but comes with a steep learning curve, especially if you dont have someone that knows what they are doing tuning it for you.
Marios kit (thedubshop) should get you 90% of there way there. PMB (@EricShea) has had the other parts needed machined up for a 100% bolt on solution, not sure if they are selling kits stand alone yet though or only installing them in shop.
Brand new EFI is always the best choice but comes with a cost.
Posted by: GregAmy Apr 21 2022, 01:57 PM
Note I am successfully controlling idle in my 2L DJet/Microsquirt conversion using ignition timing only. Works great, drops down and nails it right at 900 every time.
I don't think you need an air valve.
Posted by: jdamiano Apr 21 2022, 04:20 PM
Carb kit. Use the 40s for a stock motor.
http://www.redlineweber.com/carb-kits/auto/porsche/
Distributor
https://www.amazon.com/Pertronix-D186604-Flame-Thrower-Electronic-Distributor/dp/B004C02I1S/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=2XIL6CGRQFEA4&keywords=pertronix+vw+distributor&qid=1650578897&sprefix=Petronix+vw+%2Caps%2C213&sr=8-3
Coil
https://www.amazon.com/PerTronix-40511-Flame-Thrower-Volt-Coil/dp/B00199BO4C/ref=pd_aw_fbt_img_sccl_1/130-3584959-8366526?pd_rd_w=0fsTZ&pf_rd_p=76328f70-5fff-49b7-869a-94bfdaa768fc&pf_rd_r=ASP3C4TM5FXZHVXBFBRG&pd_rd_r=5166e2aa-a110-41d5-ba43-e27917eb5705&pd_rd_wg=bjSR8&pd_rd_i=B00199BO4C&psc=1
Fuel pump. You can go with any pump and regulate it to about 3.5 psi but Tangerine Racing can set you up with the pump bracket and I suggest a new steel line if you still are running factory plastic.
http://www.tangerineracing.com/stainlessfuellines.htm
I think I got it all. I think the beauty of this is 12 volts to new stuff and you are running. Eliminates all the old complicated stuff.
Let me know if you need any additional information
Posted by: SirAndy Apr 21 2022, 04:39 PM
Posted by: Ansbacher Apr 21 2022, 04:56 PM
My advice on carbs:
1. Don't oversize. 40s are big enough for a stock 2.0 L.
2. Go with Dellortos over Webers.
3. Use a good rotary fuel pump calibrated to 3.5-4.0 lbs. of fuel pressure.
4. Make sure your intake gaskets are not leaking; replace if needed.
5. Buy a snail type balancer (NOT a unison).
6. Don't starve the carbs for fuel- go with big enough main and idle jets. It takes experimentation.
7. Do not exceed 30-32 main venturis, or you will have off the line problems.
8. NEVER use ethanol gas.
Ansbacher
Posted by: Craigers17 Apr 21 2022, 06:55 PM
If you end up converting to carbs, and decide upon the CSP linkage, this McMark video might be useful for maintenance. Good luck with your choice!
https://youtu.be/ZS3oNSwkUPk
Posted by: rjames Apr 22 2022, 08:08 AM
Once you read up on how the stock FI works and how to troubleshoot, you may find that it’s cheaper and easier to fix the FI issues than switching to carbs. If I can do it, anyone can.
Posted by: emerygt350 Apr 22 2022, 10:34 AM
Once you read up on how the stock FI works and how to troubleshoot, you may find that it’s cheaper and easier to fix the FI issues than switching to carbs. If I can do it, anyone can.
And it is kinda cool. So much easier than later versions with all the sensors all over the place. Just a temp sensor/CHT, TPS, and MPS really. Damn thing can run when all of those are messed up too. Not too well, but it will still get you home.
Posted by: bmtrnavsky Apr 30 2022, 09:07 AM
Ok it’s bad trigger points the thingy under the distributor that has gone bad. If I can’t find those where do I find the distributor that works to stay fuel injected?
Posted by: ndfrigi Apr 30 2022, 09:18 AM
Ok it’s bad trigger points the thingy under the distributor that has gone bad. If I can’t find those where do I find the distributor that works to stay fuel injected?
nice! good you can keep the F.I.
Posted by: pbanders Apr 30 2022, 09:30 AM
You've gotten a lot of advice and info here, I'm not going to go over any of it again. If you decide to keep your D-Jetronic FI system, you can find a lot of information about it from my web page:
http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders
Note that I haven't been able to gain access for several years to update these pages (can't get anyone at rennlist.com to respond to my requests), so parts that I list as available may no longer be available except from eBay or classifieds. But you can still learn how the system works, and how to debug most problems. Good luck.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 30 2022, 10:27 AM
Ok it’s bad trigger points the thingy under the distributor that has gone bad. If I can’t find those where do I find the distributor that works to stay fuel injected?
https://123ignitionusa.com/porsche-912-914-356-vw-411e-412e-1600e-123ignition-distributor-switched-w-o-vacuum-includes-spacer/
Posted by: emerygt350 Apr 30 2022, 03:16 PM
Agree, 123ignition. One of the best things I have done for the car. Just put your old dizzy on the shelf for the next owner if they want it.
Posted by: r_towle Apr 30 2022, 05:02 PM
123 works to replace trigger points?
How?
Posted by: BeatNavy Apr 30 2022, 06:04 PM
123 works to replace trigger points?
How?
Yes, the D-Jet version of 123 provides the functionality served by stock trigger points. Works like a champ.
Posted by: emerygt350 Apr 30 2022, 06:16 PM
Yep, just put the two leads from the distributor into the pigtail that hooks to your old trigger points. No cutting or anything. No harm and you can always put the old one back on if some fool wants it original.
Posted by: nivekdodge Apr 30 2022, 09:32 PM
123 works to replace trigger points?
How?
Yes, the D-Jet version of 123 provides the functionality served by stock trigger points. Works like a champ.
I have one of these for my 1.8. Can I buy and run a djet system on my 1.8?
Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 30 2022, 09:54 PM
123 works to replace trigger points?
How?
Yes, the D-Jet version of 123 provides the functionality served by stock trigger points. Works like a champ.
I have one of these for my 1.8. Can I buy and run a djet system on my 1.8?
You don't need trigger points on a 1.8. L-Jet doesn't use them. Just get the proper distributor for a 1.8 and plug it in.
Clay
Posted by: nivekdodge May 16 2022, 04:31 PM
123 works to replace trigger points?
How?
Yes, the D-Jet version of 123 provides the functionality served by stock trigger points. Works like a champ.
I have one of these for my 1.8. Can I buy and run a djet system on my 1.8?
You don't need trigger points on a 1.8. L-Jet doesn't use them. Just get the proper distributor for a 1.8 and plug it in.
Clay
Clay
I have the single carb on the engine. Snce I have the distributor , can I buy the djet setup and use it?
Posted by: nditiz1 May 16 2022, 07:19 PM
No
The one you have is most likely for one with carbs. It possibly has the port for svda. I'm not sure if 123 has a dvda one. Regardless, if you wanted to go back to FI you should get all the Ljet stuff, not try to throw djet onto it which WILL require a different distro.
Posted by: pbanders May 16 2022, 07:43 PM
FWIW, I just found four sets of used trigger contact points on ebay ranging in price from about $25 to $75. A new 123 dizzy with single port vacuum is about $500.
Posted by: emerygt350 May 16 2022, 08:42 PM
And worth every penny.... I can always go back to points and triggers but for daily driving/racing 123 is great.
Posted by: ClayPerrine May 17 2022, 08:42 AM
My suggestion is to float test the single carb. Throw it in a lake. If it floats, use it on your car.
Now for some real advice... find a complete L-Jet system and put it back on the car. You will be much happier than the single pinto/weber carb in both performance and mileage.
Clay
Posted by: bmtrnavsky May 25 2022, 08:39 PM
When I looked at the 123 distributor it looked like it plugs into the trigger points and keeps them? I’ve seen trigGer points on eBay for about $50 but I like what I see in the 123 especially if I do not need trigger points that could wear out again. How does the distributor fire the FI without the trigger points? Is there a seller of the 321 I can call with questions? I’d like to buy this ASAP if it lets me keep my d jet FI and not run trigger points.
Posted by: BeatNavy May 26 2022, 05:32 AM
No, you don't keep the trigger points. The trigger points are integrated into the stock dizzy. They're gone when you swap it out for the 123. The 123 has two electrical leads that plug right into the FI wiring harness which was previously inserted into the trigger point connector (on the back of the old dizzy).
I've got the older D-Jet version (non-Bluetooth). It's actually installed on an engine sitting on the floor of my garage if you want a picture or something.
The sales rep for 123 has, or had, an account here. Can't remember it though.
Posted by: ClayPerrine May 26 2022, 05:33 AM
When I looked at the 123 distributor it looked like it plugs into the trigger points and keeps them? I’ve seen trigGer points on eBay for about $50 but I like what I see in the 123 especially if I do not need trigger points that could wear out again. How does the distributor fire the FI without the trigger points? Is there a seller of the 321 I can call with questions? I’d like to buy this ASAP if it lets me keep my d jet FI and not run trigger points.
The 123 distributor does not have physical trigger points. It has an electronic emulator for the trigger points. So you don't need them with a 123 distributor.
Hope that helps.
Clay
Posted by: wonkipop May 26 2022, 07:03 AM
My suggestion is to float test the single carb. Throw it in a lake. If it floats, use it on your car.
Now for some real advice... find a complete L-Jet system and put it back on the car. You will be much happier than the single pinto/weber carb in both performance and mileage.
Clay
the voice of reason.
:
Posted by: Jake Raby May 26 2022, 09:23 AM
That carburetor (or any single) fitted to these engines is a quick way to experience the worst ownership experience possible.
People go to these because they *appear* to be simpler and easier to tune than duals.. This could not be further from the truth. These carbs are damn near impossible to tune, primarily due to the long runners that allow the fuel to form droplets and enter the chambers as liquid that has fallen from suspension and lost atomization characteristics.
This means the engine always performs and tunes like it is rich, even when it is lean.
I rip them off, and crush them with my bulldozer, or tracked armored personnel carrier.
Posted by: rjames May 26 2022, 09:59 AM
Posted by: ClayPerrine May 26 2022, 11:03 AM
That carburetor (or any single) fitted to these engines is a quick way to experience the worst ownership experience possible.
People go to these because they *appear* to be simpler and easier to tune than duals.. This could not be further from the truth. These carbs are damn near impossible to tune, primarily due to the long runners that allow the fuel to form droplets and enter the chambers as liquid that has fallen from suspension and lost atomization characteristics.
This means the engine always performs and tunes like it is rich, even when it is lean.
I rip them off, and crush them with my bulldozer, or tracked armored personnel carrier.
Jake... why do you think I suggested to "float test" the carburetor????
Posted by: Superhawk996 May 26 2022, 11:05 AM
I rip them off, and crush them with my bulldozer, or tracked armored personnel carrier.
I want to see pictures of both!
Posted by: 914_teener May 26 2022, 06:10 PM
Carbs FTW
I do believe an impulse sender is what we call a bar tender up here on Mass.
All joking aside, just fix the FI
It’s most likely something stupid simple.
All the technical advice in the World here from the best in the World but to set the record straight:
The trigger points send two impluses at a time while the Mass bar you can only have one impulse at a time. I know this from experience.
Posted by: emerygt350 May 26 2022, 06:16 PM
I once ordered a strong beer at a mass bar and the impulse sender was quite judgey and told me they would have to pour it in a little glass and gave me bad looks.
Posted by: bmtrnavsky May 31 2022, 01:05 PM
Are the any vendors on The World who Sell this and can walk me through this? I'm ready to order one but I want to ensure I get the correct parts from a reliable dealer.
Posted by: emerygt350 May 31 2022, 07:13 PM
Trigger points are NLA, I think there are some folks around here sitting on some, however I see them for 150 to 200 dollars. That's halfway to a 123ignition distributor, and that is where everything becomes easy. No points, no triggers, installs in minutes, no fuss.
Posted by: Lockwodo May 31 2022, 08:27 PM
Trigger points are NLA, I think there are some folks around here sitting on some, however I see them for 150 to 200 dollars. That's halfway to a 123ignition distributor, and that is where everything becomes easy. No points, no triggers, installs in minutes, no fuss.
Posted by: Superhawk996 Jun 1 2022, 05:33 AM
Trigger points are NLA, I think there are some folks around here sitting on some, however I see them for 150 to 200 dollars. That's halfway to a 123ignition distributor, and that is where everything becomes easy. No points, no triggers, installs in minutes, no fuss.
Trigger points are NLA - True
I see them for 150 to 200 dollars. That's halfway to a 123ignition distributor.
Right on page 1 -- I posted an Ebay offering; $32 for a used set. Took me all of 30 seconds to find them. Trigger contacts are a low current contact switch. Many used sets are still serviceable. There is a guy (Norbert) here on the World that sells an adjustment gauge / tool that can be used to reset trigger points gap even when the rub block is worn.
Another 30 second search on the site using: site: 914world.com trigger points tool
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=271523
Nothing wrong with a 123 Dizzy but there were MILLIONS of these trigger points made and plenty are still in circulation so let's not pretend that you HAVE to spend $450 + tax + shipping for a 123 dizzy to get the car back on the road.
Posted by: emerygt350 Jun 1 2022, 10:26 AM
Just too many advantages to the 123. Although you can get these to run and drive on 50 year old triggers and the crappy quality points they make today, for only a little more you can have a new distributor, never buy points or triggers, and have a better running engine. Not to mention all the other fail points in that original distributor. And setting dwell. Makes you feel all old school but it does get old.
Posted by: Superhawk996 Jun 1 2022, 10:47 AM
Just too many advantages to the 123. Although you can get these to run and drive on 50 year old triggers and the crappy quality points they make today, for only a little more you can have a new distributor, never buy points or triggers, and have a better running engine. Not to mention all the other fail points in that original distributor. And setting dwell. Makes you feel all old school but it does get old.
Don't disagree.
I just wanted to make sure we don't lose sight that OP may not have extra $$ and that 123 dizzy isn't the only option.
Posted by: 914e Jun 1 2022, 11:45 AM
My suggestion is to float test the single carb. Throw it in a lake. If it floats, use it on your car.
Now for some real advice... find a complete L-Jet system and put it back on the car. You will be much happier than the single pinto/weber carb in both performance and mileage.
Clay
I feel the same about carbs.
Posted by: JeffBowlsby Jun 1 2022, 12:57 PM
My comments about the 123 trigger points. Some may consder these nuances, I consider them important, but resolvable. Mind you I have not had a 123 in my hands, am only looking at the published drawings/photos online. Maybe I am missing something? Those that have done this, please clarify and post photos of your solution. If you are driving around with an expensive new dizz and this connection fails you are in trouble.
123 provides 2 wires coming out of a hole in the side of the dizzy body. Ideally the 123 would come with a female D-Jet plug emulating the stock trigger point connection plug where the stock plug on the harness simply plugs into it like it was made for it, and which accommodates the rubber boot as the D-Jet connection system requires. How hard would it be for 123 to fab a rigid plastic connector housing with the terminasl embedded for D-Jet and provide their dizzys with it for cars that require D-Jet compatibility?
In the meantime, these wires need:
-Outer casing to route them and protect them from engine bay heat and fluid contamination. Exposed wires will not last long in our engine bays if not protected.
-A grommet to keep the wire penetration into the dizzy body watertight.
-The male wire terminals in their diagrams which insert into the wire harness female terminals. I have not been able to locate these male terminals and its not clear that they are provided with the 123.
-Some easily removeable and reinstallable method of waterproofing the electrical connection to the FI harness. Electrical tape is not an acceptable solution. D-Jet relies on the rubber boot over the trigger points connection for strain relief, to protect the wires from heat and fluid contamination and to keep the connection physically connected.
D-Jet owners need a total solution for this important connection.
Posted by: emerygt350 Jun 1 2022, 05:58 PM
Definitely concerns of importance, however, my car is 50 years old, none of the boots on any of my connections have provided the protection you speak of for 25 years. When I run into them I tend to say "oh, that must have been nice" and move on. The 123 plugs into the original connector for the triggers without having to modify anything. After making sure it worked I wrapped it in the good old electrical tape and called it a win. I know that isn't quality work, but it still works incredibly well, so good in fact that I have no qualms about suggesting it to others. Most of the stuff I do I would never suggest others follow. My old dizzy sits on a shelf now, ready to go back in if somebody wants it to, no damage to the wiring or the motor.
Posted by: bmtrnavsky Jun 3 2022, 11:59 PM
I’m sold on 123 distributor… is there a vendor on the world who sells them and will answer questions about installation if I have issues?
Posted by: emerygt350 Jun 4 2022, 04:41 AM
I got mine from tangerine racing but I am not sure he stocks them any more. There was a group buy on here not long ago so I know one of our suppliers has them.
Posted by: Lockwodo Jun 4 2022, 05:37 PM
I’m sold on 123 distributor… is there a vendor on the world who sells them and will answer questions about installation if I have issues?
https://123ignitionusa.com/
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