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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ STUCK - Strut will not come out!
Posted by: ctc911ctc May 2 2022, 07:14 AM
'74 2.0, 24K miles all original
Teeners,
When I first got this car revived (it was parked in '84, I revived it in 2018) i left the shocks alone.
IN 2019 I installed a nice system in the rear.
This year I am doing the front - all bushings, and other rubber parts (ball joints).
The project came to a halt, I cannot get the strut out of the cylinder
I will rig a system to press it out later today
I am checking in to see if there might be something I may be missing?
I have hit is pretty hard to try and loosen it, no luck yet, soaked it with Liquid Wrench over night.
Thanks!
Posted by: Superhawk996 May 2 2022, 07:31 AM
Tip the strut body upside down.
Look inside the ball joint hole. You'll see another hole that is in the bottom of the strut body that will allow you to tap the strut insert body with a long punch.
That should do it with a few modest hits. If you're having to hit it seriously hard and it's not loosening, try a little heat on the strut body to free rust and to expand the strut bore slightly.
FYI -- Those are aftermarket Bilstein inserts if you're not already aware and/or want to replace with same thing.
Posted by: ctc911ctc May 2 2022, 07:50 AM
SUPERHAWK - I knew you would fly into this!
Seriously - I hit it with a large steel hammer and a large punch - did not budge.......I am replacing with OEM Bilstein (SP) - surprised that anything was changed in this car - the rears were seemingly all original.
Will take and post a pic when I get it out!
Tip the strut body upside down.
Look inside the ball joint hole. You'll see another hole that is in the bottom of the strut body that will allow you to tap the strut insert body with a long punch.
That should do it with a few modest hits. If you're having to hit it seriously hard and it's not loosening, try a little heat on the strut body to free rust and to expand the strut bore slightly.
FYI -- Those are aftermarket Bilstein inserts if you're not already aware and/or want to replace with same thing.
Posted by: rhodyguy May 2 2022, 08:08 AM
Get some PbBlaster, pourable, and put some in the housing. About a pint for starters. Let it work to break any rust bonding. Then try driving the cartridge out again.
Posted by: mepstein May 2 2022, 08:15 AM
Not uncommon if the strut body is bent. Put a straight edge to it. - Seen it many times...
Posted by: ctc911ctc May 2 2022, 09:45 AM
I used liquid wrench - filled it up.........funny, none has leaked through the access hole on the bottom - YET
Get some PbBlaster, pourable, and put some in the housing. About a pint for starters. Let it work to break any rust bonding. Then try driving the cartridge out again.
Posted by: ctc911ctc May 2 2022, 10:12 AM
******UPDATE***********
I went to the garage and it is still stuck - none of the Liquid Wrench has seeped through the hole at the bottom.
I banged it a few times and it did not let go of the cartridge - also, the cylinder is straight.
Posted by: euro911 May 2 2022, 11:00 AM
If you decide to heat it up with a torch after pouring in any type of penetrating fluid, be careful not the breathe the fumes 
Posted by: Superhawk996 May 2 2022, 11:09 AM
Here is what your dealing with at the bottom end of Bilstein strut inset for Boge strut bodies.
The metal body of a Bilsten insert actually holds the damping rod (it's inverted) and the actual valve body for the damper is up in the chrome "big" end that you see.
This metal end cap is probably severely rusted to the strut body and/or has been jammed in there hard by hitting full jounce too many times. Also Bilstein's are pretty tight to the strut body since they need such a large tube to guide the upper inverted damper. Point being your Liquid Wrench / PB Blaster probably isn't even getting down to bottom where it's needed most.
Invert strut and put the PB blaster in from the bottom though the ball joint and the other hole so it gets where it's needed.
Can can get pretty aggressive with the hammer and the punch since you're hitting this gold colored steel end cap that is probably well rusted. Don't go 3 lb sledge on it though. Heat is your friend.
Steel end cap
Posted by: tomeric914 May 2 2022, 06:13 PM
Big slide hammer? I built one in high school and it removes just about everything.
Posted by: Shivers May 2 2022, 06:53 PM
Or turn the housing up side down, in the press, with the punch.
Posted by: Superhawk996 May 3 2022, 06:35 AM
Uh oh! No update of success. 
Posted by: Superhawk996 May 3 2022, 06:41 AM
Or turn the housing up side down, in the press, with the punch.
This is a pretty good approach too. Need to be careful to press square and not bugger up the strut body threads.
I'm thinking that you reinstall the gland nut at top of strut. But loosen it by about two turns giving just enough slack to budge the insert. That gland nut will help prevent deformation of the thin strut body tube and protect the threads simultaneously.
Really would be surprised that it would take press forces to get it out.
The one thing that bothers me is the Bilstein strut inserts since I don't have one to look at. "Real" Bilstein struts have the damper rod pinned in at the bottom of the strut housing with a roll pin that is very obvious. This is going way out there -- is there any thing like that going on with these struts and/or is the bottom hole behind the ball joint bore have some sort of a plug and/or threaded fastener in it?
If no success so far . . . can you post a picture of the bottom of strut so we can see inside the ball joint bore and/or verify the damping rod isn't pinned like OEM Bilstein struts? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22206
Posted by: ctc911ctc May 3 2022, 06:48 AM
I went out yesterday and gave it a wack after soaking - did not budge
Will try the press and then heat - need to fashion a jig to perform the press. 2x4 should do the trick
will send more as this progresses,
Thank you SuperHawk
Or turn the housing up side down, in the press, with the punch.
This is a pretty good approach too. Need to be careful to press square and not bugger up the strut body threads.
I'm thinking that you reinstall the gland nut at top of strut. But loosen it by about two turns giving just enough slack to budge the insert. That gland nut will help prevent deformation of the thin strut body tube and protect the threads simultaneously.
Really would be surprised that it would take press forces to get it out.
The one thing that bothers me is the Bilstein strut inserts since I don't have one to look at. "Real" Bilstein struts have the damper rod pinned in at the bottom with a roll pin. This is going way out there -- is there any thing like that going on with these struts and/or is the bottom hole behind the ball joint bore have some sort of a plug and/or threaded fastener in it?
If no success so far . . . can you post a picture of the bottom of strut so we can see inside the ball joint bore and/or verify the damping rod isn't pinned like OEM Bilstein struts? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22206
Posted by: ctc911ctc May 3 2022, 05:58 PM
Well, it came out - the rust was right at the interface of the bottom of the receptacle and the bottom of the insert - the rust is minor, and the interface was water (oil) tight which makes absolutely no sense.
I tried pressing it out and after a few pumps I chickened out and turned it upside down and hit it with a drift........... popped out after I got aggressive
THANK YOU FOR THE ASSISTANCE TEENERS!
Posted by: Superhawk996 May 4 2022, 06:30 AM
Glad you got it out. 
The second picture confuses me. Looks like the yellow Bilstein strut insert has separated. What I mean by that is the small diameter damping rod (with the black jounce bumper) and it's associated end cap have separated from the yellow tube / body of the strut insert.
How did that happen if you were driving the steel damping rod end cap downward into the yellow strut body?
Doesn't really matter since you're replacing the inserts. Now that you have it apart like that, I'd love to see an internal picture of the yellow strut body. Can the large diameter chrome valve body be removed from the yellow outer tube? If so, you should be able to see a pair of teflon coated linear bushings (and some sort of seal to the large diameter chrome body) that guide the large diameter chrome valve body within the outer yellow tube. I'm wondering if they are the same setup as the original green Bilstein struts or some other variation?
I'm also curious how the small diameter damping rod is secured to the bottom steel plate that you were hitting on. Is it welded or perhaps deformed into the end cap like a rivet or such?
Sorry for the 20 questions, I've just never seen a Bilstein insert separated like that. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22206
Posted by: Shivers May 4 2022, 09:00 AM
Good news! Would only need a couple pumps to break it loose. I'm curious too, this is the inside of one of mine. Looks the same for the most part.
Posted by: Superhawk996 May 4 2022, 11:12 AM
Same principle for the damper - it's an inverted mono shock design that reduces sprung weight, has better valve response, and better cooling than a twin tube damper.
However, ctc911ctc has a aftermarket Bilstein strut insert in a Boge strut assembly.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24781 , you have an actual Bilstein strut from a 911. You can tell these are from 911 by the seal cap which is much larger than the seal cap that was on the 914 Bilstein struts. The curved steering arm is also a 911 feature; 914 steering arm is straight.
In your case, the damping rod is pinned into the bottom of your strut body and the larger diameter "insert" slides back & forth in the strut body and is guided by two Teflon coated bronze linear bearings. See PM.
In the case of the aftermarket Bilstein strut cartridges that go into the Boge struts, the yellow (sometimes green) strut insert contains the guide bushings (theory on my part - I've never seen inside a yellow insert) - or at least I think so which is why I'm hoping @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22206 will post a few pictures.
Posted by: Shivers May 4 2022, 01:59 PM
Same principle for the damper - it's an inverted mono shock design that reduces sprung weight, has better valve response, and better cooling than a twin tube damper.
However, ctc911ctc has a aftermarket Bilstein strut insert in a Boge strut assembly.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24781 , you have an actual Bilstein strut from a 911. You can tell these are from 911 by the seal cap which is much larger than the seal cap that was on the 914 Bilstein struts. The curved steering arm is also a 911 feature; 914 steering arm is straight.
In your case, the damping rod is pinned into the bottom of your strut body and the larger diameter "insert" slides back & forth in the strut body and is guided by two Teflon coated bronze linear bearings. See PM.
In the case of the aftermarket Bilstein strut cartridges that go into the Boge struts, the yellow (sometimes green) strut insert contains the guide bushings (theory on my part - I've never seen inside a yellow insert) - or at least I think so which is why I'm hoping @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22206 will post a few pictures.
Yes, 1979 I think it was. I've got the other goodies too. A bit of work first.
Posted by: ctc911ctc May 4 2022, 02:32 PM
I will post as many pictures as necessary to answer your questions Mr. S-Hawk!
I am going to powder Coat the A-Arm and Spindle assembly the same color as Mr. Shivers
Speaking of Shivers, I have a cold, will get to it tomorrow - pictures that is.
I have another project - the bead on the front right tire broke on my '17 Alpina B6.......need to remove and replace the tire......UGH
Posted by: ctc911ctc May 5 2022, 04:17 PM
Pictures requested by S-Hawk!
Posted by: Superhawk996 May 6 2022, 11:22 AM
Thanks for those pictures!
Damper rod is definitely a deformed rivet swage type connection to the end cap.
From the looks of it, the end cap appears to have been wedged around the OD of the piston damper rod / end cap to the black Boge strut ID. I think that was liquid-tite and preventing any penetrating oil from getting by it?
Jounce bumper cracking (if I'm seeing that right) is good indication that it has bottomed hard more than a couple times which could really wedge the end cap.
Just curious, since that end cap has come undone, can the whole large chrome end of the damper be pulled out of the yellow tube?
If you don't want to do that I understand. i don't think that end cap is ever supposed to come free of the yellow strut insert body but now that it has, I'd suspect the whole damper can now be removed from the yellow tube to expose the linear bushings.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22206
Posted by: ctc911ctc May 15 2022, 09:33 AM
Would you like me to send it to you?
Or I can take more pics?
Please let me know
Thanks for those pictures!
Damper rod is definitely a deformed rivet swage type connection to the end cap.
From the looks of it, the end cap appears to have been wedged around the OD of the piston damper rod / end cap to the black Boge strut ID. I think that was liquid-tite and preventing any penetrating oil from getting by it?
Jounce bumper cracking (if I'm seeing that right) is good indication that it has bottomed hard more than a couple times which could really wedge the end cap.
Just curious, since that end cap has come undone, can the whole large chrome end of the damper be pulled out of the yellow tube?
If you don't want to do that I understand. i don't think that end cap is ever supposed to come free of the yellow strut insert body but now that it has, I'd suspect the whole damper can now be removed from the yellow tube to expose the linear bushings.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22206
Posted by: Superhawk996 May 15 2022, 12:28 PM
Oh God no . . . I don't want parts. 
I'm in the midst of trying to clean out all the crap I've hoarded over the last 20+ years as we prepare to move cross country.
Let me post a picture a little bit later of a 914 Bilstein cartridge for a Bilstein strut.
What I'm wondering is if you pull the damping rod / bump stop / steel end cap toward the end that is now open, will the insert just slide out and are you left holding the equivalent of the insert I'm going to post a picture of?
Sorry to keep this thread going on, just interesting to see how those yellow strut inserts are made.
Posted by: ctc911ctc May 17 2022, 06:56 PM
We live very near the edge of Boston - large house on a small lot with a small garage by anyones standard except Boston - almost 2 car!
I tell my kids we are working in a submarine, nothing on the floor! nothing in the yard! Everything must be put away.......then my 20 year old brings home a blown up Yamaha 250. oh well, I try but still have lot's of stuff to get rid of, will take a few more pics and then I will throw them away
Oh God no . . . I don't want parts.
I'm in the midst of trying to clean out all the crap I've hoarded over the last 20+ years as we prepare to move cross country. Let me post a picture a little bit later of a 914 Bilstein cartridge for a Bilstein strut.
What I'm wondering is if you pull the damping rod / bump stop / steel end cap toward the end that is now open, will the insert just slide out and are you left holding the equivalent of the insert I'm going to post a picture of?
Sorry to keep this thread going on, just interesting to see how those yellow strut inserts are made.
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