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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Why my car has no front or rear sway bars?
Posted by: CCE Jun 27 2022, 04:27 PM
Can anyone explain why my North American sold 1974 2.0, has no front or rear sway bars. Was Porsche so confident that 4 cilinder cars could handle the use without bars?
Is it only an American thing? Did Euro models also came without. Was it an option?
My car leans badly, I am in the process of getting bilstein B6 shocks installed, but anyway, I see 914 cars with bars everywhere and mine has a big NOTHING to stop body lean…
I still love it, buy 
Any comments?
Posted by: KELTY360 Jun 27 2022, 04:33 PM
Mine was the same way. The mounting tabs were on the lower A arm but no bar. I think it was a cost cutting measure. '73 2.0's came with front and rear bars. I added a front bar and it made a big difference.
Posted by: CCE Jun 27 2022, 04:53 PM
Mine was the same way. The mounting tabs were on the lower A arm but no bar. I think it was a cost cutting measure. '73 2.0's came with front and rear bars. I added a front bar and it made a big difference.
My front arms have no tabs, If (or when) I install the bar, I need to put them in and drill the car…
Posted by: JeffBowlsby Jun 27 2022, 05:05 PM
Sway bars were optional equipment for 1974.
Posted by: Freezin 914 Jun 27 2022, 05:07 PM
You are not alone, I also have a 74’ 2.0L, no sway bars. My car is as plain as they come, no sway bars, no chrome bumpers, no center counsel. That said, it has grown on me overall. Being these are considered a sports cars, I personally believe sway bars are a must. Almost all modern cars have them, sports cars or not.
I am in the process of doing some mild upgrades, modifications. Sway bars being one of them.
Posted by: mepstein Jun 27 2022, 05:24 PM
You are not alone, I also have a 74’ 2.0L, no sway bars. My car is as plain as they come, no sway bars, no chrome bumpers, no center counsel. That said, it has grown on me overall. Being these are considered a sports cars, I personally believe sway bars are a must. Almost all modern cars have them, sports cars or not.
I am in the process of doing some mild upgrades, modifications. Sway bars being one of them.
They are worth the effort.
Posted by: wonkipop Jun 27 2022, 05:26 PM
dunno the answer to that.
my lowly 74 1.8 had front and rear sway bars out of the showroom.
i did read somewhere that the sway bars were in conjunction with softer rear springs.
maybe the idea was you got a comfortable ride and the sway bars stopped it leaning at ridiculous angles cornering!?
perhaps the cars fitted with firmer rear springs did not need the sway bars so much.
there were a range of at least three rear springs in 74.
Posted by: CCE Jun 27 2022, 05:29 PM
You are not alone, I also have a 74’ 2.0L, no sway bars. My car is as plain as they come, no sway bars, no chrome bumpers, no center counsel. That said, it has grown on me overall. Being these are considered a sports cars, I personally believe sway bars are a must. Almost all modern cars have them, sports cars or not.
I am in the process of doing some mild upgrades, modifications. Sway bars being one of them.
Which takes me to a second question, which brand and model is best bang for the buck?
Its not a cheap accessory, what are you looking at? For options..
Regarding the bumpers I want to change color to anthracite gray, altogether with my steel wheels. Maybe that will get some contrast..
I like the amplitude of the interior.
Posted by: rjames Jun 27 2022, 06:57 PM
Find a used stock front bar- it's plenty for an otherwise stock car and IMHO the rear bar isn't needed for a car that is driven only the street.
It'll change how the car handles tremendously for the better. These cars never should've been delivered without a front bar.
Posted by: 914werke Jun 27 2022, 07:04 PM
You can find the 13mm 912 bars for cheap, but usually they are bare (no arms ect.) from an upgrade. Check the Bird.
Posted by: infraredcalvin Jun 27 2022, 08:00 PM
It’s all to create a balanced system. Looks like you’ve lowered your car and are using lower profile tires from stock, that’ll help for starters.
Every change you make to front or rear will have an effect on the other.
Stiffen up the rear with heavier springs, your car will want to oversteer. Stiffen up front with heavier bars and sways bars your car will want to understeer. It’s a balancing act.
1st best option is adjustability, so if you go with a stock bar, get some tarrett or like adjustable drop links.
After that, $$$ will give you all kids of adjustable options…
Posted by: 914Sixer Jun 28 2022, 06:28 AM
There was a base 2.0 l car for 1973. I was just like the base 1.7l with nothing. It simply had the larger engine. The dealer order guide shows the two models.
Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 28 2022, 07:56 AM
Sway bars were optional equipment for 1974.
My ‘75 2L came without sway bars as well…
Putting even the stock bars on is a dramatic improvement.
This corner is being attacked with an elephant bar front and stock rear sway bar. Without sway bars any corner feels like trying to balance on top of a rolling rubber ball.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: CCE Jun 28 2022, 08:02 AM
It’s all to create a balanced system. Looks like you’ve lowered your car and are using lower profile tires from stock, that’ll help for starters.
Every change you make to front or rear will have an effect on the other.
Stiffen up the rear with heavier springs, your car will want to oversteer. Stiffen up front with heavier bars and sways bars your car will want to understeer. It’s a balancing act.
1st best option is adjustability, so if you go with a stock bar, get some tarrett or like adjustable drop links.
After that, $$$ will give you all kids of adjustable options…
Thanks so much, the info helps a lot!, the car is as I found it, I will replace shock absorbers, and see how low it is.
Regarding the front bar which is the best recommendation on diameter? The stock?
Iwill use in highway and backroads, and occasional track days, so the bilsteins I think, will do the trick..
I will see how to get the elephant racing bar, here to Mexico and do the
Here is a picture as it was for 40 years. Before cleaning
Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 28 2022, 09:04 AM
Other than a AXing monster, I see no reason to omit the rear ASB. Stock F&R ASBs, stock front torsion bars, 100# springs on adj perches (ground control system). Excellent manners and ride for a street car. I have ext adj Koni reds on 4 corners and Elephant poly-bronze bushing up front. Firm but not overly so and expansion joints don't rattle my teeth. Don't forget the corner balance and 4 wheel alignment. The route will not come cheaply but well worth the expense in my book.
Posted by: brant Jun 28 2022, 09:26 AM
I've always preferred larger front bars than stock...
I (vague memory) believe the stock front was 16mm
the weltmeisters came in 19 and 21 and were my choices usually
currently running a 28mm front bar in my race car with larger than stock rear
and a welt 21mm in the street car with no rear bar
Posted by: Root_Werks Jun 28 2022, 09:27 AM
My six conversion is running stock sway bars F/R with 100lb rear springs and likely stock 914-4 torsion bars up front. I have Koni oils in the rear turned max and can't remember what's up front other than it's a 911 3.5" spaced. I like it for a street car.
Posted by: CCE Jun 28 2022, 09:58 AM
I've always preferred larger front bars than stock...
I (vague memory) believe the stock front was 16mm
the weltmeisters came in 19 and 21 and were my choices usually
currently running a 28mm front bar in my race car with larger than stock rear
and a welt 21mm in the street car with no rear bar
Are Weltmeister bars still available?
Posted by: brant Jun 28 2022, 09:59 AM
I've always preferred larger front bars than stock...
I (vague memory) believe the stock front was 16mm
the weltmeisters came in 19 and 21 and were my choices usually
currently running a 28mm front bar in my race car with larger than stock rear
and a welt 21mm in the street car with no rear bar
Are Weltmeister bars still available?
available used... just like the stock bars are.
H and H made an aftermarket bar also that can be found used.
the welts had a better arm with more adjustability
brant
Posted by: Shivers Jun 28 2022, 10:05 AM
My 72' was the same way. I put them front and rear and wow what a difference.
Tabs:
https://www.elephantracing.com/911/swaybars-for-911/quickchange-blade-style-swaybars/u-tab-kit/
Posted by: Spoke Jun 28 2022, 10:09 AM
My '71 didn't have front or rear sway bars. So I knocked off 2 projects at once: 911 underbody sway bar and 5-lug conversion. No drilling or welding; bolt on.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: gandalf_025 Jun 28 2022, 11:00 AM
My factory 6 came without sway bars, but it did have the tabs on the A arms.
I bought a 19mm front bar from H+H Specialties in 1974, The owner of
H+H lived 2 towns away from me and I drove to his house to get it. I went with the H+H because you could install it without removing the gas tank..
I have ABSOLUTELY no track experience, but what I noticed with the bar installed was
A corner I could normally take at 70 mph before the bar, was fine with the front bar installed at 80 mph.... Then the back of the car started feeling a little loose.
So I went back and bought the rear bar and that same corner could now be taken at
90 mph.. It really felt locked down and well planted..
What nobody explained to me at that point was.... You can OVER drive a set of sway bars and when that happens... It happens fast and you have absolutely no control..
You are just along for the ride..
I was 19 at the time and I survived.. Still have the car too.. I did manage to spin it
a few times and was lucky to never hit anything..
Posted by: mepstein Jun 28 2022, 11:35 AM
My factory 6 came without sway bars, but it did have the tabs on the A arms.
I bought a 19mm front bar from H+H Specialties in 1974, The owner of
H+H lived 2 towns away from me and I drove to his house to get it. I went with the H+H because you could install it without removing the gas tank..
I have ABSOLUTELY no track experience, but what I noticed with the bar installed was
A corner I could normally take at 70 mph before the bar, was fine with the front bar installed at 80 mph.... Then the back of the car started feeling a little loose.
So I went back and bought the rear bar and that same corner could now be taken at
90 mph.. It really felt locked down and well planted..
What nobody explained to me at that point was.... You can OVER drive a set of sway bars and when that happens... It happens fast and you have absolutely no control..
You are just along for the ride..
I was 19 at the time and I survived.. Still have the car too.. I did manage to spin it
a few times and was lucky to never hit anything..
My friend had a GT3 and he said the limit was so high, he knew when it let go, he’d be in a lot of trouble.
Posted by: CCE Jun 28 2022, 12:14 PM
My 72' was the same way. I put them front and rear and wow what a difference.
Tabs:
https://www.elephantracing.com/911/swaybars-for-911/quickchange-blade-style-swaybars/u-tab-kit/
I have a quotation from elephant racing, it’s just too much for the moment, I know I will do eventually. Just need to be sure of all the options.
914world is helping a lot.
Posted by: CCE Jun 28 2022, 12:15 PM
My '71 didn't have front or rear sway bars. So I knocked off 2 projects at once: 911 underbody sway bar and 5-lug conversion. No drilling or welding; bolt on.
Ooooo nice!, and vented disks in the front.
Posted by: CCE Jun 28 2022, 12:24 PM
My factory 6 came without sway bars, but it did have the tabs on the A arms.
I bought a 19mm front bar from H+H Specialties in 1974, The owner of
H+H lived 2 towns away from me and I drove to his house to get it. I went with the H+H because you could install it without removing the gas tank..
I have ABSOLUTELY no track experience, but what I noticed with the bar installed was
A corner I could normally take at 70 mph before the bar, was fine with the front bar installed at 80 mph.... Then the back of the car started feeling a little loose.
So I went back and bought the rear bar and that same corner could now be taken at
90 mph.. It really felt locked down and well planted..
What nobody explained to me at that point was.... You can OVER drive a set of sway bars and when that happens... It happens fast and you have absolutely no control..
You are just along for the ride..
I was 19 at the time and I survived.. Still have the car too.. I did manage to spin it
a few times and was lucky to never hit anything..
I think “that” is the mid engine configuration for you, I am used to drive VW beetles here (had 4 in a row, from 92, to 2004) love them, I had one tuned with bars and Bilstein it was hard on the back as a rock, it was hilarious, but oversteer was a daily thing, and 360 turns in the rain was also a thing, (till my brother took it for a ride) you get used to it. Now with the 914 It’s very similar only 400,000 times better. I am loving the process
Posted by: brant Jun 28 2022, 12:32 PM
look for used.
also check the pelican parts forums
the 911 (through the body bar) is the same as the 914
steer clear of the 911 underbody sway bar, as it will require different mounting tabs and is generally used when doing a full 911 suspension swap
the through the body bar (early 911, and 914) gives better geometry anyways.
Posted by: ndfrigi Jun 28 2022, 12:41 PM
My 72' was the same way. I put them front and rear and wow what a difference.
Tabs:
https://www.elephantracing.com/911/swaybars-for-911/quickchange-blade-style-swaybars/u-tab-kit/
I have a quotation from elephant racing, it’s just too much for the moment, I know I will do eventually. Just need to be sure of all the options.
914world is helping a lot.
Try to change the front shock/insert for now and check if you will be okay with that for the meantime or even the rear shocks may also make a big difference from that old shocks/inserts.
Posted by: mepstein Jun 28 2022, 12:41 PM
My 72' was the same way. I put them front and rear and wow what a difference.
Tabs:
https://www.elephantracing.com/911/swaybars-for-911/quickchange-blade-style-swaybars/u-tab-kit/
I have a quotation from elephant racing, it’s just too much for the moment, I know I will do eventually. Just need to be sure of all the options.
914world is helping a lot.
Most of the elephant racing sway bars are pretty big and heavy duty. It may not be what you want for a road car. You should be able to get a stock 914 front bar for about $200-400. It will probably be the most bang for your buck. Then add a rear bar as money permits.
Posted by: Shivers Jun 28 2022, 12:47 PM
My 72' was the same way. I put them front and rear and wow what a difference.
Tabs:
https://www.elephantracing.com/911/swaybars-for-911/quickchange-blade-style-swaybars/u-tab-kit/
I have a quotation from elephant racing, it’s just too much for the moment, I know I will do eventually. Just need to be sure of all the options.
914world is helping a lot.
Well I can not afford anything from elephant unless I get a deal on it. If you want I'll pull a tape on mine, I know I could make my own if I needed to.
Posted by: autopro Jun 28 2022, 12:56 PM
My car didn't have the sway bar either so I bought one from GR German Parts Restoration.
Brackets I made for mounting
Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Jun 28 2022, 01:49 PM
My car didn't have the sway bar either so I bought one from GR German Parts Restoration.
Brackets I made for mounting
I have the same bar in 19mm. Nicely made, highly recommended.
Posted by: 914Next Jun 28 2022, 02:03 PM
Wait…..a Mexico barn find? In storage 40 years? Did I miss this story? I gotta know more! And w are you located in Mexico.
Steve
Posted by: CCE Jun 28 2022, 02:10 PM
Wait…..a Mexico barn find? In storage 40 years? Did I miss this story? I gotta know more! And w are you located in Mexico.
Steve
That is correct. In Mexico city, it was last moved around 1981 after imported from LA/USA, I knew the car in 1985 more or less, but I was not allowed near the car, NEVER… the owner passed away 5 years ago, my friend called me to ask if I was interested last November…
So, next thing…
Posted by: 914Next Jun 28 2022, 02:13 PM
[quote name='CCE' date='Jun 28 2022, 04:10 PM' post='3011851']
[quote name='914Next' post='3011850' date='Jun 28 2022, 03:03 PM']
Wait…..a Mexico barn find? In storage 40 years? Did I miss this story? I gotta know more! And w are you located in Mexico.
Steve
[/quote]
That is correct. In Mexico city, I knew the car in 1985 more or less, but I was not allowed near the car, NEVER… the owner passed away 5 years ago, my friend called me to ask if I was interested last November…
So next thing…
[/quote
Nice. Would love to see more pics and hear more about the story.. What is the condition? I’m from the states but live near Guadalajara now.
Posted by: CCE Jun 28 2022, 02:29 PM
[quote name='914Next' date='Jun 28 2022, 03:13 PM' post='3011853']
[quote name='CCE' date='Jun 28 2022, 04:10 PM' post='3011851']
[quote name='914Next' post='3011850' date='Jun 28 2022, 03:03 PM']
Wait…..a Mexico barn find? In storage 40 years? Did I miss this story? I gotta know more! And w are you located in Mexico.
Steve
[/quote]
That is correct. In Mexico city, I knew the car in 1985 more or less, but I was not allowed near the car, NEVER… the owner passed away 5 years ago, my friend called me to ask if I was interested last November…
So next thing…
[/quote
Nice. Would love to see more pics and hear more about the story.. What is the condition? I’m from the states but live near Guadalajara now.
[/quote]
I have a vey rustic video on you tube you may like.
https://youtu.be/uow_y-61hxc
https://youtu.be/0TKeQhttLHQ
Posted by: ndfrigi Jun 28 2022, 02:29 PM
I think the owner also posted a video on youtube. If yes, hope the owner can share the youtube link here.
Posted by: CCE Jun 28 2022, 02:41 PM
I think the owner also posted a video on youtube. If yes, hope the owner can share the youtube link here.
https://youtu.be/uow_y-61hxc
https://youtu.be/0TKeQhttLHQ
https://youtu.be/fouqlBMV-sk
https://youtu.be/lTHjHWGmVYk
Here you go…
Posted by: CCE Jun 29 2022, 12:09 PM
My 72' was the same way. I put them front and rear and wow what a difference.
Tabs:
https://www.elephantracing.com/911/swaybars-for-911/quickchange-blade-style-swaybars/u-tab-kit/
I have a quotation from elephant racing, it’s just too much for the moment, I know I will do eventually. Just need to be sure of all the options.
914world is helping a lot.
Try to change the front shock/insert for now and check if you will be okay with that for the meantime or even the rear shocks may also make a big difference from that old shocks/inserts.
I got the shocks yesterday, I will install right away.
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