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Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 16 2022, 12:50 AM

Very disappointed when I received 2 rebuilt calipers and one obviously had some considerable corrosion before being restored. After cad plating it looks like a gold nugget. The pad resting areas are extremely pitted and uneven. Pads move a lot more in the caliper than in my original calipers. Will this lead to any issues if I decide to use them?

Posted by: sechszylinder Aug 16 2022, 02:57 AM

Wow , that one looks ugly.

To answer your question, I wouldn't use it, but only because it doesn't look good.
From a functional point of view one could only guess if its properly rebuilt.
Send it back … Our cars deserve better parts …

BR

Benno

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 16 2022, 05:45 AM

From what I can tell the area in question is a sliding surface for the pads, my vote would be to discard this caliper

Posted by: 914Sixer Aug 16 2022, 06:01 AM

I would be worried about metal fatigue on the pin holders. Should not have a been a candidate for rebuilding.

Posted by: BillJ Aug 16 2022, 06:07 AM

I never ever mess with less than perfect with the system that allows me to stop.

Posted by: PatMc Aug 16 2022, 07:18 AM

That’s trash.

Posted by: mepstein Aug 16 2022, 07:23 AM

There might not be a functional issue but I would still return it for a better one.

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 16 2022, 09:58 AM

Posted by: Root_Werks Aug 16 2022, 10:03 AM

Wouldn't use it either, there are still good cores out there. Why use something that pitted/corroded?

Posted by: krazykonrad Aug 16 2022, 10:50 AM

Just as the tree is coming through your windshield, I doubt you're going to be congratulating yourself on the money you saved by not getting a better one.

My $0.02

Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 16 2022, 11:08 AM

I will try to exchange it or just return the complete set. Like I said, I am disappointed. I expected much better from this vendor.

Posted by: jd74914 Aug 16 2022, 11:21 AM

Can you post a zoomed out picture. I'm just curious what the whole caliper looks like.

Posted by: Puebloswatcop Aug 16 2022, 12:03 PM

Absolutely not. I can't believe any reputable supplier or builder would even consider sending something of such poor quality. Who was your supplier? That is very poor quality.

Posted by: Mikey914 Aug 16 2022, 01:32 PM

I understand cores are getting hatder to find. While functionally it may meet the job requirement, it's not pretty. If you got a discount ok, but this one shows its wear.

Posted by: burton73 Aug 16 2022, 04:29 PM

Question is, how did that make it all the way to you? Quality control was terrible. This should be on the wall of shame at the supplier that you got it from. I have seen a lot of 914 calipers and that is the worst thing I have ever seen of any caliper!

Get the company to give you back all your money. I hope you used a Credit Card or PayPal and they will go to bat for you in case the vendor would not issue a full refund.

And where did you get this from?


Bob B

Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 16 2022, 04:42 PM

I will take a pic when I get home.

Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 16 2022, 04:55 PM

I am not looking to throw any rebuilder under the bus but I agree with you nomination for the wall of shame. I am returning them to Pelican who is the supplier, not the rebuilder.

I have talked with a rebuilder today that is local to me and I will report back after I see his work.

Posted by: emerygt350 Aug 16 2022, 05:24 PM

I plan on getting new rears next year and pmb is the only one I am considering.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 16 2022, 06:19 PM

I would give the rebuilder the benefit of a doubt, so long as they are willing to make good on it.

The degradation we see here can probably be repaired.

Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 16 2022, 06:34 PM

Benefit of the doubt, there is no doubt that they thought it was ok to put it into a box with their name on it. The only way to fix those surfaces is to weld in material and re machine.

Posted by: PatMc Aug 16 2022, 06:42 PM

No, absolutely not. Maybe if it was the last on existence, maybe…but no.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 16 2022, 07:51 PM

I know a reputable vendor you does offer 'B' stock calipers that have cosmetic damage but deemed to be safe and functional otherwise. Any chance 'B' stock was ordered or sent by mistake?

I discovered about the 'B' stock when said vendor saw a picture of my calipers on the forum and reached out to say I was sent the wrong calipers by mistake and promptly sent the good ones. They didn't look nearly as bad as yours though.

Posted by: bkrantz Aug 16 2022, 08:01 PM

Junk. And if a sketchy rebuilder sells calipers that look that bad on the outside, what nasty stuff is lurking in the bores?

Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 16 2022, 08:21 PM

I think I received "F" stock.

Posted by: Van B Aug 16 2022, 08:30 PM

I’m mind blown by what I’m looking at… PMB has ‘74 calipers on sale btw.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 16 2022, 08:56 PM

Yeah, 'F' would be about right. The 'B' stock I received had a couple cosmetic flaws but in no way would you question whether they were safe. One of those things you see and think, "huh, that's kind of a shame, but they'll work."

Posted by: Geezer914 Aug 17 2022, 05:18 AM

pull the pistons if they are good and use the caliper for an anchor!

Posted by: Van B Aug 17 2022, 10:38 AM

Thought about this thread and the long time vendor who sent that part out.

I think the responsible thing to do is for that vendor's rep to own up to this and offer an explanation.

For the record, we do know who you are and that you were OK putting your name on the box and charging money for that piece of yellow zinc scrap. Again, speaking for myself, my future purchase decisions will be affected by the response here or in private.

Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 18 2022, 07:20 PM

Today UPS delivered a box of calipers I ordered from a different supplier that I had found locally. Just opened the box and I can honestly say these are what I expect from a rebuilder. They are cad plated and the machined surfaces are just as they should be. They have “new” chrome pistons and came with all new hardware, pins, clips, bleeders, caps and retainers. They look brand new. The owner Pat is great to talk with and has tremendous knowledge regarding braking systems. I must have talked with him for almost 45 min before committing to order. I am glad I did and want to give a shout out to Pat and his skills.
If you are looking for 914 brakes here is Pats contact info.
Automotive Brake Solutions in Long Beach, Ca. (310) 947-7014

I will be returning the other calipers to Pelican.

Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 18 2022, 07:46 PM

Picture



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Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 18 2022, 07:50 PM

Hardware


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Posted by: barnfind9141972 Aug 19 2022, 02:16 AM

Pat is the man, I have front and rear calipers from him including pads and hoses. They are awesome and have had zero issues after driving

Posted by: PatMc Aug 19 2022, 12:05 PM

Thanks for the kind words. Most people call me something else lol

Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 19 2022, 02:08 PM

I plan on doing the fronts also, just not a current priority. Maybe during next pad change.

Posted by: rjames Aug 19 2022, 04:06 PM

The new ones look great! I love seeing that new bleeders were included instead of cleaning up and reusing the old ones, which in at least one instance that I'm aware of, led to one snapping in half in the caliper when tightening.

Posted by: Spoke Aug 19 2022, 04:08 PM

Your latest set looks great. The first set looks like a rock formation on the side of a mountain.

Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 19 2022, 07:34 PM

LMFAO

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 25 2022, 09:27 AM

I would be very disappointed as well Brian. Very sorry for the mix-up.

That is a "B-Stock Blowout" caliper that appears to either have been put on the wrong inventory shelf or pulled from the wrong inventory shelf. We restore thousands of calipers per year and quite often, these are the cores we are left with. Usually we can make lemonade out of lemons by selling these calipers for a fraction of the price, (this caliper would sell for roughly $40.00 in the open market. Still having "excellent" internals (to answer that question) otherwise they would be thrown out for metal scrap. How they ended up in your hands is a mystery that we've struggled with all day yesterday. The two inventory shelves are on top of one another so... we assuming that's how it happened in haste to get the order out the door to Pelican. I apologize for the inconvenience. Please stand by as our team has a care package coming your way. We know it takes time and effort to deal with a situation like that so I've put a little something in the mail to reduce the sting.

Hopefully it's not how far we fall but how high we bounce.

As you can tell from my screen name, I'm Eric Shea. I founded PMB Performance in the winter break of 2004-2005 right here in the pages of 914World. I'm also an admin here who assisted Andy, Mark, Gint, and others in creating 914World as we know it. I'm extremely proud of my involvement here and extremely grateful for Andy and others for making this the most badass place for 914 lovers ON THE PLANET. Fun fact; I was in the Music Industry at the time working as the Associate Publisher for Guitar Player and Bass Player magazines. One of our biggest competitors was "Guitar World" and I always thought that was a great name. It encompassed the "World-Wide" aspect of what we were trying to do. The suggestion stuck. Now you know the rest of the story.

I have 19,115 posts as of this writing. Learning, living, loving and helping all things 914 in these forums. I'm hosting Red Rocks Classic this year and 914's are a "Vital" part of our shop and our existence. We're the number one caliper restoration facility in the world because of you. We restore calipers for Porsche Classic, Mercedes Benz USA and countless others... all because of a small thread in the Vendor forum here. I thank you. We're the largest supplier of 5-lug conversion kits to the market. We make and supply countless specialty items for our cars. I own 3 914's and 914-6 variants (6 if you include the parts cars ). It's safe to say I eat, live and breath 914. To see a thread where we've disappointed a fellow 914 owner is, frankly, quite devastating to me personally.

I want to thank the members in this thread for not throwing me under the bus, as the urge to trash a vendor is strong. Brian exercised great restraint in his post as did many of you. The fact is, that caliper did slip out of our facility in an A-Stock box.

This is my "Breakwerks" team. Each and every one of them came out in the parking lot and stood behind our product and I stand behind them. If you'll notice, each one is a human being. All capable of making a mistake. That said, I'm proud of them and I love them like the family we are here on 914World. Will they make more mistakes? Many! As will I, every single day. Their faces told the story when I showed them your thread. They care. We've disappointed a customer. Not an overly exciting day.



We've taken measures internally so a caliper of this caliber never gets in a box destined for a A-Stock order again. I've reached out to Pelican Parts to rectify this as well. We've even questioned the practice of putting our name on "B-Stock Blowouts" moving forward.

This is a pair of A-Stock 914 rear calipers that I pulled off the shipping shelf and it is indicative of the quality of the products we sell day in, day out whether it's a 914 or a factory 917. You all get the quality that has delivered both Pebble Beach and Amelia Island podium finishes. Rest assured.



Brian, thanks for posting this thread. Call us if you ever have an issue we my company again. Holly is "amazing" at taking care of customer issues. Van, thanks for pointing me to the thread. With the daily business grind and Red Rocks 2022 looming on the horizon, I don't get out much these days.

Posted by: Van B Aug 25 2022, 09:49 AM

Eric, Thank you for speaking up. If I'm honest, seeing that part stopped me in my tracks regarding my plan to send you my 996 and 914 calipers. I couldn't get my head around why a caliper so eaten up would be restored even if the internals functioned. What I mean is, I wasn't confused how that caliper got pulled from a shelf. Rather, I was confused why it wasn't harvested of parts and then thrown in the trash right away.

My opinion is that the 914 has arrived as a legit classic Porsche and I just don't think there is a market for that kind of part anymore. You know better though, since customers are calling you, not me.

I definitely wish you'd been quicker to respond, but ultimately, I'm thankful you have; and how you have. Your response is very important for customer confidence, and it was on the money. So, thank you again.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 25 2022, 12:06 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1110

That response / apology should be a MBA case study in the proper way to conduct business and to respond to a legitimate customer concern.

It seems to me that you clearly are evaluating how this happened internal to your own inventory and shipment processes. More importantly, how to prevent a reoccurrence. This is behavior that should be benchmarked by all others.

I applaud you Eric.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 25 2022, 12:16 PM

^^^
This.

And now I feel compelled to tell "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say.

I learned about the B-stock at the end of a long road with my calipers. I'm a hard core DIY guy and since Eric has posted excellent instructions for rebuilding front and rear calipers, I got the internals from PMB and shipped my calipers off for plating. Only two calipers came home as the USPS lost two. The two that came back were left in acid too long by the plater so the bolt threads were roached. Eric reached out on my post on the World, quickly diagnosed the problem, and said if I sent him a set of rebuildable shells, he'd send me some nice plated ones.

Before I could post a WTB, World members had already jumped in to donate cores. After stripping down the cores, I sent them to Eric but I believe only two of them made it as the others once again went missing on the way down. Eric sent a full set of plated cores anyway and charged me pennies for the exchange. I'm sure he was losing money at that point.

As I mentioned earlier, the plated cores had a few gouges but the internals looked great. Sure, the gouges were a little disappointing to put on my fully restored baby, but I would be the only one to know and Eric had already gone the extra 10 miles and probably lost money helping me out. So I rebuilt the calipers, bolted them on, and posted a pic on the thread to show off my accomplishment. Eric quickly posted publicly on the thread saying it looked like I was sent B-stock cores by mistake and just as quickly set up an exchange.

A couple weeks later, I had a set of pristine cores and by this time had a lot of practice rebuilding calipers so had them bolted onto the car within an hour. It remains the most impressive customer service experience I've ever had. No complaint was made and yet, the owner of a very busy company took the initiative to reach out multiple times to help a fellow enthusiast who he has never met in person. I would say that bounce is pretty darn high my friend.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 25 2022, 12:21 PM

Eric and PMB- class all the way; just great people.

Posted by: mepstein Aug 25 2022, 01:36 PM

Eric and PMB have been my go-to Brake guys for a decade. When I worked at the Porsche shop, we decided we were a lot better off sending parts to PMB than rebuilding them ourselves. They may not always be perfect but they are professional, which means they fix there mistakes and learn from them to do better. I’ll be a customer for life.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 25 2022, 06:11 PM

Being self employed for many years, I have found good will goes a long way in this world. PMB did a set of rear calipers for me a year ago, flawless

Hats off to Eric and his team

Posted by: Puebloswatcop Aug 25 2022, 06:42 PM

I have purchased several items fro PMB, almost never any issues. And when there was an issue (part of a kit missing) it was handled right away and shipping was immediate. Eric and Staff are awesome.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 25 2022, 07:49 PM

One last comment on this thread. Although it is unfortunate that the OP was sent the wrong calipers, I very much think there is a market for B-stock on 914s. There are still a lot of driver 914s out there proudly showing their battle scars and being the little workhorses that they are. Those cars don't need cosmetically perfect calipers and I'd much rather have a set of PMB B-stocks that I was confident would stop my car for years to come than roll the dice on a set of rebuilts from the local FLAPS.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Aug 26 2022, 08:18 AM

I would like to add my praise of PMB.

We have 3 914s and a 95 BMW 540I. Out of those cars, the only one that doesn't have PMB rebuilt calipers on them is the 914-6 conversion with the big six in it. And that is my fault. I have PMB rebuilt 992 calipers for the front of it, I just have not put them on yet. I am looking for matching rear calipers to send to PMB for rebuild.

If PMB rebuilt calipers for a Jeep Comanche, I would have a set on my Jeep.

Clay

Posted by: VaccaRabite Aug 26 2022, 08:43 AM

Yep, Eric is the man, and he always makes it right.

I've got his brakes on my 914, my 2002, and I'll have them on my 72 Westy (well, the fronts anyway). He's also building me an engine for the 914.

There will always be bumps on the road whenever you have people involved. How those bumps are handled is what will make a lifelong customer, or a company that flounders and has a horrible reputation.

I'll tell you right now I'm a life long PMB customer.
Zach

Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 26 2022, 01:37 PM

Eric, Thank you for the clarification. I have been in automotive manufacturing for 35 years and understand the challenges. I appreciate your response and dedication to the 914 community, and thank Holly for getting my hard lines to me before last weekend.

Posted by: Brian Fuerbach Aug 31 2022, 07:22 PM

Arrived home last night and found a UPS package from Eric Shea and the crew at PMB. Eric sent me a set of gorgeous front calipers with hardware, pads and a nice letter signed by everyone at PMB. Never would have expected this, but it is very appreciated. Above and beyond, thank the whole crew.


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Posted by: 930cabman Sep 1 2022, 04:57 AM

I would bet Eric understands "what goes around comes back around in this world" Simple concept but many of us on the planet don't subscribe to it.

It's all about me abounds in the world these days