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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Problem Removing Turbo Tie Rod End
Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 30 2023, 04:07 PM
It's been well established that I am dumber than the average bear, but aren't the tie rod ends (on turbo tie rods) just supposed to unscrew off the tie rod? I'm not talking about getting the threaded end out of the control/pittman arm -- I've done that. I'm trying to replace the tie rod end. Heat, PB Blaster, but I can't seem to break it free. It's not easy getting leverage on the rod and the end at the same time, but I've put a fair amount of torque on there with no luck.
Any suggestions or thoughts?
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 30 2023, 04:13 PM
Aren't those reverse threads? It's been a long time since i last touched on of those.
Posted by: BillJ Jan 30 2023, 04:33 PM
Lol. Yes. Yes they are. I remember that 42 minutes of my life.
Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 30 2023, 04:36 PM
Oh man, if that's the case, then I AM dumb.
But I did consider that at one point. I tried to go the other direction and it still wouldn't budge (although I didn't put as much effort into it then). Hmmm....
Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 31 2023, 08:22 AM
Nope, I can't get that tie rod end to move either direction on the rod. I don't know if the threads inside got boogered or if I did something on the install 5 or so years ago.
What are my options at this point? Do I unthread/remove the whole rod so I can at least get it on a vice or something?
Posted by: bdstone914 Jan 31 2023, 08:36 AM
Nope, I can't get that tie rod end to move either direction on the rod. I don't know if the threads inside got boogered or if I did something on the install 5 or so years ago.
What are my options at this point? Do I unthread/remove the whole rod so I can at least get it on a vice or something?
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=17042
Do you have the narrow wrench needed to fit the end of the tie rod?
Have you tried a big hammer hit
on the wrench to break it loose?
Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 31 2023, 08:44 AM
Hey Bruce!
Yeah, I do have that special wrench. Just got done watching Ian's install video to remind me how this all went together.
So how does one apply enough torque to get it to break free in this situation? The tie rod rotates freely in the rack, so you need to try to hold that still, and those little flat surfaces on the rod don't give much to hold onto. Not sure how I could do this with a hammer....
EDIT: or are you referring to removing the whole tie rod with the wrench and hammer?
EDIT part II: wait, there's a narrow wrench for the end? I don't think I have that. I have the big one (36mm) that's used to secure the inner part to the rack.
Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 31 2023, 10:15 AM
I took the tie rod off of the rack. PB Blaster, lots of heat, and I still can't get that thing to move. I clamped it as hard as I could in a vice and backing up with vice grips, but I can't get the rod to stay and the end to move. It's like it's welded to that thing.
I think my best bet at this point is to buy another tie rod 
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 31 2023, 11:34 AM
What am i missing here? I've always used two long wrenches and you move them towards each other to break the end lose.
Both parts should allow for a wrench (forget which sizes, the two are different if i recall)
Can you post some pics of what you have?
Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 31 2023, 11:47 AM
What am i missing here? I've always used two long wrenches and you move them towards each other to break the end lose.
Both parts should allow for a wrench (forget which sizes, the two are different if i recall)
Can you post some pics of what you have?
I don't know, but I'm missing it, too, apparently. Yes, that's what I've been trying to do (I still think it's right hand threaded, but either direction it's not budging). The rod itself has a small flat surface that will fit a 12mm wrench although not that well. The tie rod end will take a 22mm wrench. Here's a pic:
There was some surface rust on the threads from the 5 or so years I've been running these, but I still can't believe that's what's causing it not to budge.
I said screw it and ordered a whole new tie rod / tie rod end assembly from the bird.
Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 31 2023, 11:58 AM
Here's the tie rod off the rack. The ONLY thing I can think of is if I put something like red loctite in there during assembly. But I don't think I did that, nor do I think I am that dumb. And I heated that b**** up pretty good trying to break it free.
Posted by: mepstein Jan 31 2023, 12:25 PM
More heat & more leverage.
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 31 2023, 01:08 PM
More heat & more leverage.
Posted by: Dion Jan 31 2023, 01:29 PM
Vice & Pipe wrench 
Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 31 2023, 01:46 PM
Had the MAP torch out, but getting leverage is tough on that rod, even in a vise. Lots of heat, vise, biggest pipe wrench I have -- nada. Couldn't find anything to work as a cheater bar.
though. It's not like it's a 40 year old rusty part. Been maybe 5 years, and maybe only one East Coast winter. The rest of the time it's been garaged in the winter.
Thanks for the support, fellas, but I'm throwing in the towel on this one before I pull a groin. New tie rod shows up on Friday, I guess.
Posted by: SirAndy Jan 31 2023, 02:56 PM
That is so weird, those threads should be moving freely since it's supposed to be the locking nut holding things in place.
Posted by: mepstein Jan 31 2023, 03:19 PM
That is so weird, those threads should be moving freely since it's supposed to be the locking nut holding things in place.
Welcome to the east coast -
Posted by: MDTerp Jan 31 2023, 09:13 PM
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: bbrock Jan 31 2023, 09:17 PM
Wow. That is a head scratcher. Once that lock nut is loose, you can usually screw the tie rod end off by hand. Red loctite came to my mind too but I'm not even that dumb and I guarantee I'm dumber than you. I can't imagine it would be possible to cross thread those either.
Posted by: mepstein Jan 31 2023, 11:25 PM
Wow. That is a head scratcher. Once that lock nut is loose, you can usually screw the tie rod end off by hand. Red loctite came to my mind too but I'm not even that dumb and I guarantee I'm dumber than you. I can't imagine it would be possible to cross thread those either.Red loctite should free up with heat. I use heat on the cylinder registers to free up head studs and a minute or two of head easily softens the loctite.
Posted by: rfinegan Feb 1 2023, 06:49 AM
Did the adjuster come out off the inner Long(turbo end)?
Perhaps the adjuster is bottomed out or turning the wrong way?
Posted by: jvmarino Feb 1 2023, 10:16 AM
Well if the entire tie-rod is already off and you have a new one coming, nothing to lose if you take a cutting wheel to it and slit it lengthwise about 1/8" deep and then use a chisel and split it open.
Posted by: BeatNavy Feb 4 2023, 12:13 PM
Got the new tie rod / end combo on Thursday (nice job, Pelican, two day order fulfillment from West Coast is pretty sweet). Friday I used the old tie rod to measure the length. This all started when I was trying to adjust the tie rod end to get 1/8th in of toe-in. Installed new one without issue, but my string alignment setup now tells me I'm about 1/4 in toe-in, so I need to back it off again. Problem is, the tie rod end is stuck in the control arm. I've tried the BFH method without success. I don't want to use the pickle fork method again and destroy a brand new tie rod end. Purchased the only one they had at FLAPS and of course it's the kind that doesn't fit 
Currently waiting for delivery of the tie rod separator that kind of looks like the VW special tool (266h). 
But I'm curious: car didn't even make it out of my garage. I torqued the nut to 33 ft lbs which I believe is correct. And that sucker is STILL in that control arm very tightly. It's a pinch fit, right? Is this normal? I was hoping I could coax it back out without too much force, but no luck without that tool I guess.
For those that are interested, I "unzipped" the threaded section of the old tie rod end to get it off the rod. Even with one side cut and banging with chisel and hammer it wouldn't come off. I had to slice both sides before it would give way. I don't see any obvious issues in the threads, so I'm still confused as to why it was so badly frozen on there.
Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 4 2023, 12:20 PM
Rust frozen? It doesn’t look like the penetrant made it to the threads.
Posted by: BeatNavy Feb 4 2023, 12:28 PM
Rust frozen? It doesn’t look like the penetrant made it to the threads.
Yeah, that's the only thing I can think of. It LOOKED like it was getting in there, but looking at it now it doesn't look like the PB blaster got in there.
Posted by: SirAndy Feb 4 2023, 06:21 PM
I'd be tempted to add a dab of grease to the threads of the new one to prevent that kind of rust.
Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 4 2023, 06:24 PM
Ball joint is a taper. It is normal for it to be a tight fit (non release after fastener removal) after torquing the fastener.
In reality the joint is held by the interference fit of the taper, not by the fastener.
Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 4 2023, 06:34 PM
I’m not sure what BFH approach was used. Did you try hitting the side of the knuckle while backing it up with a 2nd hammer? Basically using the 2nd hammer like a body dolly.
Usually that approach will get it to release pretty easily. I usually back it with a 2lb ball peen and hit it on the knuckle side with a 3lb brass hammer. Not a good method if you have pretty powder coated / painted struts.
More effective than simply hitting it downward on the threaded section of the ball joint. Doesn’t risk damaging the threads or the nut as occurs when hitting directly on the ball joint.
Posted by: bkrantz Feb 4 2023, 09:11 PM
Wow. I wonder if the rod or the socket threads were raw (uncoated or unplated) and the rust got extra stuck.
I agree for the new stuff: some grease or ant-seize.
Posted by: Van B Feb 4 2023, 09:19 PM
Actually a great thread despite all the frustration. This is a good reminder for me to use anti seize on all my adjuster threads!
Posted by: technicalninja Feb 5 2023, 09:55 AM
The best release agent I've found for ferrous on ferrous is "Pimp Juice".
Pimp Juice is an old school hot rodder trick...
1/2 acetone and 1/2 old school Dexron III.
It separates in the bottle.
Shake it like you mean it and it turns Pepto Dismol pink.
Super thin and will wick upwards about a 1/2 inch into a vertical fastener.
Tested against all of the custom release agents (PB blaster, Kroil, etc) it kicks ass.
I had an exhaust stud with a locked fastener and this stuff took 4 SECONDS to go through the nut. It then screwed out with minimal effort.
I was shocked! Works great. It will damage any plastic you get it on.
I have completely negated the need to beat stuck rotors off axle flanges with this stuff. Put a little squirt in each lug blot hole and 10 minutes later the rotor will fall off the flange by itself.
For dissimilar metals I use wintergreen oil (you buy it from health products supplier-Amazon). This trick comes from the technicians on our aircraft carriers.
Imagine working on a F15/F18 in a 100% salt environment...
Your shop smells like Christmas when you use this stuff.
Posted by: mepstein Feb 5 2023, 10:07 AM
One of the techs showed me his trick. He heats up the part and then uses a piece of paraffin wax. The wax wicks up the threads but unlike penetrating oils, doesn’t burn off easily. Pro techs don’t have all day (or days) to wait around for penetrating oil to work. This does it in minutes.
Posted by: technicalninja Feb 5 2023, 10:52 AM
One of the techs showed me his trick. He heats up the part and then uses a piece of paraffin wax. The wax wicks up the threads but unlike penetrating oils, doesn’t burn off easily. Pro techs don’t have all day (or days) to wait around for penetrating oil to work. This does it in minutes.
Yep, this works great as well.
Even better if you light the candle and let the already liquid wax hit your threads.
This does require a torch (propane torch works fine) and can damage the paint.
The pimp juice works in seconds as well. It does work better the longer you leave it on.
I have been a professional technician for 4 decades...
This is my current business.
http://granburyautoac.com/
And yes, I still do R12 work.
The car has to be special, and the AC system has to be perfect before I'll charge it.
The 1970 Chevelle SS on my website had been converted to R134 and I back dated it to R12 seven years ago. It still blows 35 degrees on a 100-degree day...
Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 5 2023, 11:04 AM
One of the techs showed me his trick. He heats up the part and then uses a piece of paraffin wax. The wax wicks up the threads but unlike penetrating oils, doesn’t burn off easily. Pro techs don’t have all day (or days) to wait around for penetrating oil to work. This does it in minutes.
Has its limitations but works extremely well especially good at preventing galling once it’s loosened.
Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 5 2023, 11:09 AM
I’m late to this thread but to me it looks like original problem was that the threaded road was likely forced down into the ball joint far enough that it began to engage with the partially cut threads near the bottom.
Then add a smidge of corrosion after the original alignment had been done.
Not enough heat and not enough leverage to back the rod out of the ball joint.
Partially cut threads circled.
Posted by: BeatNavy Feb 7 2023, 02:15 PM
I don't think the rod extended that far into the area of the threads that looked damaged. I can tell based on the color of the rust. But you could be right, as I don't have a better explanation other than rust.
Anyway, finally got my tie rod separator tool. That thing is substantial -- it probably weighs 10 lbs. And it made short work of removing the end without damaging the boot like that damn pickle fork.
Thanks for everyone's help and support on this. Today I:
1. Put some rust inhibitor on the rod threads.
2. Dialed the toe-in back a bit
3. Took her for a test drive -- alignment / toe is darn near perfect.
This was all part of a deep-dive I did to try to get my alignment / balance more in line with spirited street driving. Everything seems good to go!
Posted by: 914_teener Feb 7 2023, 03:21 PM
I don't think the rod extended that far into the area of the threads that looked damaged. I can tell based on the color of the rust. But you could be right, as I don't have a better explanation other than rust.
Anyway, finally got my tie rod separator tool. That thing is substantial -- it probably weighs 10 lbs. And it made short work of removing the end without damaging the boot like that damn pickle fork.
Thanks for everyone's help and support on this. Today I:
1. Put some rust inhibitor on the rod threads.
2. Dialed the toe-in back a bit
3. Took her for a test drive -- alignment / toe is darn near perfect.
This was all part of a deep-dive I did to try to get my alignment / balance more in line with spirited street driving. Everything seems good to go!
Hey Rob....just had to ask. With the Turbo Tie Rod set up....did you use the spacer washer? Looks like fun wrenching in any case.
Posted by: BeatNavy Feb 7 2023, 03:36 PM
Hey Rob! Hope all is well 
I used A spacer washer. I don't think it was the thick one you see in the 911 kit. I used a much narrower one that either came with the kit I purchased or swapped in for that thicker washer. I can't remember now, but I'm sure I did it based on threads I read here.
Posted by: Montreal914 Feb 7 2023, 10:30 PM
Excellent thread with good tricks!
That drive after the work... 
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