Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: DBF May 7 2023, 11:10 AM

I just had heart surgery and now need a pacemaker. When I told the medical team I own 914 with an engine a foot or two from my heart one persons strongly suggested not driving it. Anyone else here with pacemakers and what is your experience with motors. Thanks - Doug

Posted by: willieg May 7 2023, 11:35 AM

I have a pacemaker and read up on everything after installation. I also own a 914 with a Subaru 3.0 engine. I know I am not supposed to lie flat on the engine because of proximity to electro-magbnetic waves but do everything else associated with normal car stuff. My main objection to the pacemaker is that I can no longer MIG weld, which I used to really enjoy. I still gas weld but it isn’t the same. I also could not go into the bowels of Hoover Dam because of the huge generators. There are some other minor inconveniences but better than the alternative. Good luck with the life change.

Posted by: Mikey914 May 7 2023, 02:17 PM

If you are truly concerned, I’m sure that you could put up a barrier on the inside of the firewall. Or heck just inside of the engine compartment.

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 7 2023, 02:43 PM

You can’t prevent EMF from getting inside the cabin short of turning it into a mesh shielded Faraday cage complete with a fine metallic mesh over all glass.

I’m not a doctor and can’t give you any advice there. However, if they are worried about the ancient ignition system of a 914 running a terribly weak coil, you may want to talk to them about modern cars which have way more EMF.

Since 2010 there has been a massive proliferation of devices in cars that have way more EMF sources such as modems, WiFi, Bluetooth, high voltage coils, CAN bus communication, electric motors for everything. Electric vehicles, batteries, and high voltage drive motors are even worse!

You may want to seek out a more specialised medical expert opinion on EMF than your current team has offered up and/or to clarify risks of more modern vehicles to you vs. your 914.

Posted by: StarBear May 7 2023, 04:32 PM

Use “R” resistor spark plugs?

Posted by: wonkipop May 7 2023, 05:24 PM

they could be correct. they would not have cautioned without good reason.
the alternator is right behind you and close.

you can ask a good medico about it.
the caution you got was probably very conservative.
you do have to be very close to the electrical field. very close. 6 inches in most cases.
so i guess the 914 alternator is in borderline territory.
and it would generate a strong electrical field as its a charger device.

i have an old mate with a pacemaker.
and there is a list of equipment (makes and models) issued by heart foundation (of australia) for caution in relation to proximity of certain devices.

as others note here, there are a lot of electrical fields in modern cars a lot stronger than those in older cars. ie electric vehicles! i'd add a lot of the equipment in modern cars is also shielded.

but there are electrical fields everywhere these days.

Posted by: DBF May 7 2023, 07:33 PM

Thanks everyone for the comments. Now hearing my heart surgery complication may be more severe and pacemaker dangers worse than other pacemaker wearers. Looks like a lot of research ahead

Posted by: Freezin 914 May 7 2023, 07:43 PM

Wishing you good luck with everything my friend.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 7 2023, 07:43 PM

Should not be an issue. I will copy and paste some guidance that we use and to further look into this I have messaged a few cardiologists and EP in a physician car group that Im in as they get the nuance of the question.

From Uptodate, one of our resources for med info and guidelines:
"AVOIDING ELECTROMAGNETIC INTERFERENCEAlthough contemporary pacemakers are less susceptible to interference than older models, electromagnetic energy can interfere in some cases. Thus, experts advise that people with pacemakers be aware of the following:

Household appliances — Pacemaker manufacturers do not recommend any special precautions when using normally functioning common household appliances such as microwave ovens, televisions, radios, toasters, and electric blankets.

Cellular phones — People with a pacemaker or a defibrillator should know that items with strong magnetic fields (eg, cellular phones with magnets for wireless charging [iPhone 12], magnetic accessories such as certain “smart watches”) can affect the function of the device if they are very close (less than six inches) to their device. Cell phones without strong magnets are unlikely to cause problems with pacemakers or defibrillators.

If you have a pacemaker or a defibrillator, the safest strategy is to use your cell phone at the ear on the side opposite the cardiac device. When you are carrying your phone, keep it in a pocket or bag below your waist. If you’re not sure whether your phone or watch is likely to cause problems with your cardiac device, check with the manufacturer or your doctor.

Anti-theft systems — Electromagnetic anti-theft security systems are often found in or near the workplace, at airports, in stores, at courthouses, or in other high-security areas. Although interference with a pacemaker is possible, it is unlikely that any clinically significant interference would occur with the transient exposure associated with walking through such a field. Based upon several studies and observations, experts advise that patients with pacemakers should:

●Be aware of the location of anti-theft systems and move through them at a normal pace

●Avoid leaning on or standing close to an anti-theft system

Metal detectors at airports — Similar to antitheft systems, metal detectors at airports can potentially interfere with pacemakers, although this is unlikely. Such exposure has been shown to cause interference in some cases and may be related to the duration of exposure and/or distance between the security system and the pacemaker. Metal detectors will likely be triggered by the presence of a pacemaker and therefore at places such as airports, it will be important for individuals with pacemakers to carry an identification card for their pacemaker, and airport personnel will likely prefer to do a manual search.

External electrical equipment — External electrical fields do not seem to cause a problem for most people with a pacemaker. However, in workplaces that contain welding equipment or strong motor-generator systems, because interference can inhibit pacing, it is recommended that a person with an implanted cardiac device remain at least two feet from external electrical equipment, verify that the equipment is properly grounded, and leave the immediate locale if lightheadedness or other symptoms develop."

Posted by: Dr Evil May 7 2023, 07:45 PM

I feel you. Been dealing with heart shit for 5 yrs, and had valve replace and repair last December. Hang in there and ask lots of questions of your team.

Posted by: burton73 May 7 2023, 09:12 PM

I have an inside of my hart pacemaker on one side and I went over this with my Electro specialists on my heart peacemakers their answer was, this if electric Welding my pacemaker would not work right. It would not damage the unit but as my pacemaker paces 22% of the time, my hart may beat to low, and I could pass out. I sold my welding equipment for that reason.

Stay healthy my friends,

Bob B

Posted by: Dr Evil May 7 2023, 09:14 PM

Update, you need 12" from ignition system, which is not an issue, and per the guidelines I already posted. That is generic, though. If you want to DM me your model type/number I have a cardiology friend that offered to pull up the details and let me know if yours is even a concern.

Posted by: davep May 8 2023, 06:58 AM

I defer to Dr Evil of course, but the engine is almost in a Faraday cage as it is. Generally you will be about 18 inches away from the ignition system.

Posted by: Steve May 8 2023, 07:42 AM

Beware…. Make sure you push for a pace maker that supports MRI’s. Some don’t.

Posted by: burton73 May 8 2023, 09:44 AM

My pacemaker must be turned off when I go in the tube. Not a big deal but I have to be at Hospital that can deal with it.

Bob B

Posted by: Mikey914 May 8 2023, 09:44 AM

If it’s unaffected by an MRI, I’d suspect the 914 would not be an issue.

Posted by: Steve May 8 2023, 11:08 AM

My Mom's pacemaker brand/model did not support MRI's and my Dad's does. Big PIA when we needed an MRI when she had a stroke.

Posted by: emerygt350 May 8 2023, 02:10 PM

I wonder if a gauss meter or something would be helpful? They are not expensive considering the value in your case.

Posted by: tpines May 10 2023, 10:30 AM

Hi. I'm sure your friend with the pacemaker is aware of this potential danger but if not please let him know as well.
Cheers!

Posted by: DBF May 14 2023, 06:22 PM

I'm home from the hospital after 16 days and working to regain strength. Thanks for all the information and offers to help. It's looking like I won't need to sell my barn find BB before I even get it back on the road! I'll be sure to reach out as I begin my research. Thanks again, Doug

Posted by: mlindner May 15 2023, 07:47 AM

Doug, what is your location in WI, I'm on Lake Wisconsin north of Madison. Mark

Posted by: burton73 May 16 2023, 02:02 PM

I called my In heart (leadless) pacemaker manufacture today to ck on a few things after I was at Cedars Sinai hospital for my yearly pacemaker Ck up. As far as the ignition source goes, they say 12 inches away is fine. I am inclosing some info from them Stay healthy my friends.

Bob B


Dear Mr. Burton,
Thank you for contacting Medtronic Patient Services. If you do choose to weld after consulting with your physician, follow these welding safety precautions to minimize the risk of interfering with your implanted heart device:
• Limit welding to currents less than 160 amps
• Work in a dry area with dry gloves and shoes.
• Maintain a 2-foot (60 centimeter) distance between the welding arc and heart device.
• Keep the welding cables close together and as far away as possible from the patient’s heart device.
• Place the welding unit approximately 5 feet from the work area.
• Connect the ground clamp to the metal as close to the point of welding as possible.
• Arrange the work so the handle and rod will not contact the metal being welded if they are accidentally dropped.
• Wait several seconds between attempts when having difficulty starting a weld.
• Work in an area that offers firm footing and plenty of room for movement Work with an informed person who understands these suggestions.
• Immediately stop welding and step away from the area if the patient start feeling lightheaded or dizzy or if the patient believes their implantable defibrillator has delivered a shock
Welding above 160 amps is not recommended, maintain at least 5 feet from the welding area and components for welders up to 400 amps.
NOTE: There is no apron or vest that will effectively shield the Medtronic heart devices from the electromagnetic fields generated by the welding equipment.
Welding precaution guidelines support the following types of welding machines:
• EDM - Electromagnetic Discharge Machine
• GMAW - Gas Metal Arc Welding types:
• MIG - Metal Inert Gas welding
• MAG - Metal Active Gas welding
• SMAW or MMA - Shielded Metal Arc Welding or Stick Welding or Manual Metal Arc welding
• GTAW or TIG – Gas Tungsten Arc
• Welding or Tungsten Inert Gas
• Helium arc
• Plasma cutters
• Gouging
• Alternating Current (AC) or Direct Current (DC)
To learn more about Medtronic implanted heart devices, please reference the websites below. You may also share the following links with family and friends:
• medtronic.com: Learn more about Medtronic products
• medtronic.com/patient-services/cardiac-emc-guide/index.htm: Understand electromagnetic field
 EMC_Guide.pdf ( 2.43mb ) Number of downloads: 27
 EMC_Worksite_Patient_Standard_Letter_v1.2.pdf ( 102.61k ) Number of downloads: 28

Posted by: DBF May 16 2023, 04:58 PM

I live in McFarland. Thanks for the info about welding. I have a dual lead Medtronic. Things are looking more positive for life with a pacemaker.

Posted by: r_towle May 18 2023, 01:07 PM

because this issue is what I do daily...and I am most likely going to get one in the future....

I am very concerned about this aspect.
There are things I can avoid...EMF things.
This bit will become harder to avoid as things become more connected.
An example article, but the issue is very real, and very scary.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.118.037331#:~:text=cyber%20security%20concerns.-,Hacking%20Risk,inappropriate%20shocks%2C%20the%20agency%20noted.

Posted by: DBF May 20 2023, 11:55 AM

When friends offer condolences about my heart problems, I tell them everyone just has to play the cards they are dealt, but when I read this article, I sometime feel mine are too often aces and 8's. Scary stuff.

Posted by: Superhawk996 May 20 2023, 12:44 PM

Logan’s Run

Posted by: r_towle May 20 2023, 01:15 PM

So,
I will be watching your heart rate and I will Brick your car and call an ambulance.

Lol