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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ A couple /6 conversion Q's
Posted by: 930cabman Jun 10 2023, 11:08 AM
Wrapping up a couple patches in the battery/hell hole area, getting things ready to mount a new Maddog OEM style engine mount. It looks as though the main wiring harness will interfere with the new engine mount. Is it as simple as moving the harness towards the passenger side an inch or so?
Also, should I remove the /4 crossbar mounts? My gut says yes, get them out of the way
Is cutting a hole in the firewall required to access the fan belt?
TIA to all
Posted by: SirAndy Jun 10 2023, 11:21 AM
Wrapping up a couple patches in the battery/hell hole area, getting things ready to mount a new Maddog OEM style engine mount. It looks as though the main wiring harness will interfere with the new engine mount. Is it as simple as moving the harness towards the passenger side an inch or so?
Also, should I remove the /4 crossbar mounts? My gut says yes, get them out of the way
Is cutting a hole in the firewall required to access the fan belt?
Yes
Optional
No
Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 10 2023, 12:24 PM
1. Yes
2. definitely
3. I would not cut an original 6 chassis for fan belt access, but a conversion chassis, maybe. 
Posted by: mepstein Jun 10 2023, 01:00 PM
One good reason to remove the 914-4 engines me mounts is because there is often rust behind the mounts, especially on the passenger side. I’ve removed them on my rusty tub and left them on the non rusty car. Works either way.
Posted by: 930cabman Jun 11 2023, 11:20 AM
Thanks to all who replied. I have been researching this project for some time, but confirmation is always good.
Had a few hours this morning, wife out of town. The passenger side engine shelf was damaged from rust and prior impact so had been previously removed. Having access to the /4 engine mount made removal somewhat straightforward.
Drivers side engine shelf is in great condition, but will need a bit of selective demo to access the engine mount.
Is the only reason some guys cut out the firewall is for fan belt access? how did the factory allow for belt replacement/adjustment on the original /6 cars?
Posted by: mepstein Jun 11 2023, 11:28 AM
Drop the motor or for some people with good dexterity, do it in place. I have seem pictures of a 90 degree bent box wrench to help with removing the fan nut
Posted by: brant Jun 11 2023, 12:31 PM
The belt can be changed in car but its not fun
You can not drive a 911 without a belt. Even a little bit will cook the engine
In my race car I have lost belts more than a few times
Would not want to do that replacement on the rush without the access
Attached image(s)
Posted by: targa72e Jun 11 2023, 11:13 PM
Adding my thoughts having used a Mad Dog mount on my conversion.
#1 yes. Everything fit fine
#2 I removed mine and thin put back a reinforcement piece of sheet metal. Some said it helped reinforce the area.
#3 the access to the fan area is very limited. My conversion does not have a access port. If I needed to replace the belt I would probably pull the engine. I would estimate a belt replacement for me in my garage at 5 hours. This would be pull engine, replace belt and reinstall.
I am starting another -6 conversion and plan on putting in a access panel.
john
Posted by: mlindner Jun 12 2023, 05:09 AM
I think the service cover is a must. Replacing the belt can be done without one but loosening the distritor bolt for timing its a must. Also, I left the engine mounts in....all the metal looked good, then mounted a plate over it ( This my new jack point) really work nice. Best, Mark
Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 12 2023, 06:19 AM
I vehemently disagree in the idea of cutting a hole in something called a "FIREWALL".
Having lived through an engine fire, it will not happen on my cars. The factory didn't put one in, so I am not either. The belt can be changed in the car. It is not easy, but it can be done. And it all else fails, roll the new belt on, then drive it home and drop the motor to replace it properly.
With how easy it is to drop the motor, I do it just to adjust the valves. So while it is out, I put a new fan belt on, even if it doesn't need it.
Posted by: mepstein Jun 12 2023, 06:33 AM
Looks like most people screw on a plate to cover the hole. If the vehicle catches on fire, exit the vehicle.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 12 2023, 07:03 AM
Looks like most people screw on a plate to cover the hole. If the vehicle catches on fire, exit the vehicle.
AT 70MPH?
Posted by: mlindner Jun 12 2023, 07:39 AM
If a fire starts in a 914 four or six, at speed or stationary. Being that the engine is right behind you that rear window is going to go before anything regarding fire wall. And Clay I understand your concern, but a lot of 914 enthusiast do not have the tools or skill to pull engines that offten for service as you do. I greatly appreciate everything you bring to this forum Clay. Best, Mark
Posted by: sixaddict Jun 12 2023, 07:58 AM
Lots of competent advice…..but would not do without in track car .
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Posted by: Root_Werks Jun 12 2023, 08:42 AM
Wrapping up a couple patches in the battery/hell hole area, getting things ready to mount a new Maddog OEM style engine mount. It looks as though the main wiring harness will interfere with the new engine mount. Is it as simple as moving the harness towards the passenger side an inch or so?
Also, should I remove the /4 crossbar mounts? My gut says yes, get them out of the way
Is cutting a hole in the firewall required to access the fan belt?
Yes
Optional
No
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jun 12 2023, 09:15 AM
do not cut the firewall!!!!!! DO remove the four cylinder mounting pods CAREFULLY and immediately sell the right one on e bay for 450!!!
Wrapping up a couple patches in the battery/hell hole area, getting things ready to mount a new Maddog OEM style engine mount. It looks as though the main wiring harness will interfere with the new engine mount. Is it as simple as moving the harness towards the passenger side an inch or so?
Also, should I remove the /4 crossbar mounts? My gut says yes, get them out of the way
Is cutting a hole in the firewall required to access the fan belt?
TIA to all
Posted by: mepstein Jun 12 2023, 09:23 AM
do not cut the firewall!!!!!! DO remove the four cylinder mounting pods CAREFULLY and immediately sell the right one on e bay for 450!!!
Wrapping up a couple patches in the battery/hell hole area, getting things ready to mount a new Maddog OEM style engine mount. It looks as though the main wiring harness will interfere with the new engine mount. Is it as simple as moving the harness towards the passenger side an inch or so?
Also, should I remove the /4 crossbar mounts? My gut says yes, get them out of the way
Is cutting a hole in the firewall required to access the fan belt?
TIA to all
I gave mine away to another member here. I think Dion did the same.
Posted by: 930cabman Jun 12 2023, 09:30 AM
do not cut the firewall!!!!!! DO remove the four cylinder mounting pods CAREFULLY and immediately sell the right one on e bay for 450!!!
Wrapping up a couple patches in the battery/hell hole area, getting things ready to mount a new Maddog OEM style engine mount. It looks as though the main wiring harness will interfere with the new engine mount. Is it as simple as moving the harness towards the passenger side an inch or so?
Also, should I remove the /4 crossbar mounts? My gut says yes, get them out of the way
Is cutting a hole in the firewall required to access the fan belt?
TIA to all
Thanks again to all repliees (if that's a word) I have removed the passenger side /4 engine mount and it's in perfect condition, with a minimum of rusting underneath. Have yet to go after the drivers side, it's concealed by the engine shelf.
I will probably be opening up the firewall for fan belt access, as my gut and the advice of others tells me.
Also, it appears as though the brake compensator needs to be moved when using the Maddog OEM style mount.
This is not a bolt in conversion for sure, but I am hoping the result will be worth it. I have not driven or ridden in a 914/6, so this will be a surprise.
Posted by: mepstein Jun 12 2023, 10:07 AM
The brake compensator was different in early vs late so some cars need modification. It will be worth it. A 914 with a six is a blast. 
Posted by: r_towle Jun 12 2023, 10:21 AM
can someone with a six show how hard it is to get in there to change the belt?
I was looking at the /4 the other day...and that is no walk in the park.
I recall this car is all about closing your eyes and doing the work purely based upon touch.
Can you fit all the required tools in to properly change a belt on a six...without ever having to drop the motor?
Rich
Posted by: mepstein Jun 12 2023, 10:40 AM
can someone with a six show how hard it is to get in there to change the belt?
I was looking at the /4 the other day...and that is no walk in the park.
I recall this car is all about closing your eyes and doing the work purely based upon touch.
Can you fit all the required tools in to properly change a belt on a six...without ever having to drop the motor?
Rich
Yes but it’s not fun. One of our guys did it a couple months ago but he’s 22 years old and does whatever you tell him to do. It’s not something I would want to do myself.
I did tell him to remove the engine lid and he said that helped.
Posted by: r_towle Jun 12 2023, 10:42 AM
can someone with a six show how hard it is to get in there to change the belt?
I was looking at the /4 the other day...and that is no walk in the park.
I recall this car is all about closing your eyes and doing the work purely based upon touch.
Can you fit all the required tools in to properly change a belt on a six...without ever having to drop the motor?
Rich
Yes but it’s not fun. One of our guys did it a couple months ago but he’s 22 years old and does whatever you tell him to do. It’s not something I would want to do myself.
I did tell him to remove the engine lid and he said that helped.
So, this is a February annual project...drop motor, do everything needed for the season.
rich
Posted by: campbellcj Jun 12 2023, 10:47 AM
I've done the belt with no firewall access hole and can vouch for it being a beotch - you're essentially working by feel unless you maybe have a helper hold a mirror or camera. My car has a removable lid and no airbox to pull off or work around which does help. I have literally injured myself several times working on this car lol.
Posted by: 930cabman Jun 12 2023, 12:26 PM
I will definately be opening up the firewall to provide fan belt access, thanks for the comments. I am also sure the opening can be made reasonably fire resistant and allow for access into the engine compartment. Working on a mid engined car is tough enough without making it more difficult. Can anyone provide an approx. size?
Every so often an engine drop to check things out is a good practice, but somewhere out in the middle of nowhere to change a fan belt. No way
Posted by: mepstein Jun 12 2023, 12:42 PM
If you want the firewall piece, I have one from a parts car. $50 + ship.
Posted by: 930cabman Jun 12 2023, 12:49 PM
If you want the firewall piece, I have one from a parts car. $50 + ship.
Can you post a photo? is it a bolt on? sounds like an easy button thanks
Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 12 2023, 01:22 PM
Removing the engine mounts does make for a cleaner look, only reason to keep is if you have future thoughts of a different motor install. LS and most other engine swaps use them. Once you go six though you just want to make it bigger... 
.
I did have to remove the rear brake (anti lock?) valve when I installed the Rich Johnson mount.
Posted by: 930cabman Jun 12 2023, 04:21 PM
Removing the engine mounts does make for a cleaner look, only reason to keep is if you have future thoughts of a different motor install. LS and most other engine swaps use them. Once you go six though you just want to make it bigger...
.I did have to remove the rear brake (anti lock?) valve when I installed the Rich Johnson mount.
I have a fresh 2.7 on the shelf scheduled to go in hopefully soon. If anything I would hop up the 2.7 or increase power some other way. I would probably not go an LS
Considering either Webers or CIS, Webers will probably get the nod, need to look at the throttle shafts soon
Posted by: mepstein Jun 12 2023, 05:31 PM
If you want the firewall piece, I have one from a parts car. $50 + ship.
Can you post a photo? is it a bolt on? sounds like an easy button thanks
It’s just the cut out firewall center section. I’ll dig it up and post a pic. The advantage over a piece of sheet steel is it follows the curves of the firewall.
Posted by: rgalla9146 Jun 12 2023, 07:04 PM
If you want the firewall piece, I have one from a parts car. $50 + ship.
Can you post a photo? is it a bolt on? sounds like an easy button thanks
It’s just the cut out firewall center section. I’ll dig it up and post a pic. The advantage over a piece of sheet steel is it follows the curves of the firewall.
with a piece cut from a scrap car the fit is instant and perfect.leave at least a a 3/4" overlap and secure with four fasteners...or more if
you go large.
Weld nuts or palnuts on engine side of firewall
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: 930cabman Jun 13 2023, 04:55 AM
If you want the firewall piece, I have one from a parts car. $50 + ship.
Can you post a photo? is it a bolt on? sounds like an easy button thanks
It’s just the cut out firewall center section. I’ll dig it up and post a pic. The advantage over a piece of sheet steel is it follows the curves of the firewall.
with a piece cut from a scrap car the fit is instant and perfect.leave at least a a 3/4" overlap and secure with four fasteners...or more if
you go large.
Weld nuts or palnuts on engine side of firewall
I like the look of the painted firewall, how is the engine noise?
Posted by: rgalla9146 Jun 13 2023, 05:24 AM
Plenty.
Haven't found a simple effective solution.
I'm considering the rubbery asphalt mat that was used in early cars covered with
form fitting perlon.
I don't want anything 'fancy'
Posted by: mepstein Jun 13 2023, 06:20 AM
Plenty.
Haven't found a simple effective solution.
I'm considering the rubbery asphalt mat that was used in early cars covered with
form fitting perlon.
I don't want anything 'fancy'
Rory - Look at “Lizard Skin”. Great product. Easy to apply. Very effective. Can be painted over.
Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 13 2023, 07:13 AM
can someone with a six show how hard it is to get in there to change the belt?
I was looking at the /4 the other day...and that is no walk in the park.
I recall this car is all about closing your eyes and doing the work purely based upon touch.
Can you fit all the required tools in to properly change a belt on a six...without ever having to drop the motor?
Rich
It’s easy to change the belt. You drop the motor.
No holes will ever be cut in my firewall while my name is on the title.I remember a phone call from McMark asking about the four mounts. My response to his question “do you see yourself ever going back to a four cylinder?” Was “Remove the mounts Mark!”
Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 13 2023, 07:26 AM
It’s easy to change the belt. You drop the motor.
No holes will ever be cut in my firewall while my name is on the title. 1000%
Posted by: Justinp71 Jun 13 2023, 01:15 PM
Removing the engine mounts does make for a cleaner look, only reason to keep is if you have future thoughts of a different motor install. LS and most other engine swaps use them. Once you go six though you just want to make it bigger...
.I did have to remove the rear brake (anti lock?) valve when I installed the Rich Johnson mount.
I have a fresh 2.7 on the shelf scheduled to go in hopefully soon. If anything I would hop up the 2.7 or increase power some other way. I would probably not go an LS
Considering either Webers or CIS, Webers will probably get the nod, need to look at the throttle shafts soon
Originally I went from a tired 2.7CIS to a 3.0 with Webers, headers and mild cam (DC20 I think). Big difference in power and overall responsiveness. Carbs can be a little stinky in general though. I added breather recirculation which helps.
Posted by: Root_Werks Jun 13 2023, 02:20 PM
If you already have a fresh 2.7:
Drop in Solex cams if you plan to use carbs
Drop in 964 cams if you plan to use CIS
Or sell it and buy a higher HP engine.
Posted by: 930cabman Jun 13 2023, 03:49 PM
If you already have a fresh 2.7:
Drop in Solex cams if you plan to use carbs
Drop in 964 cams if you plan to use CIS
Or sell it and buy a higher HP engine.
Yes, my engine builder suggested the Solex cams. She is fresh and I can't wait to fire her up for the first time. I have a set of 40 IDTP carbs on the shelf, but need to go through them
Posted by: 930cabman Jun 15 2023, 08:49 AM
Using the Maddog OEM style engine mount requires the brake regulator to be moved an inch or so to the West. Where is a good source for metric brake lines and fittings? Are they the same/similar to domestic "double flare"?
Posted by: brant Jun 15 2023, 09:07 AM
I believe the correct flare is different
Called a bubble flair
Posted by: Root_Werks Jun 15 2023, 10:26 AM
If you already have a fresh 2.7:
Drop in Solex cams if you plan to use carbs
Drop in 964 cams if you plan to use CIS
Or sell it and buy a higher HP engine.
Yes, my engine builder suggested the Solex cams. She is fresh and I can't wait to fire her up for the first time. I have a set of 40 IDTP carbs on the shelf, but need to go through them
That would be a sweet combo.
Posted by: nditiz1 Jun 16 2023, 07:10 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24877
Check out my build thread as I went through similar issues you are facing. I converted my proportioning valve to an early style setup, and made a custom line to go through the firewall. I used a bungie cord to pull the wiring harness out of the way while welding the maddog mount.
Posted by: 930cabman Jun 17 2023, 05:10 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24877
Check out my build thread as I went through similar issues you are facing. I converted my proportioning valve to an early style setup, and made a custom line to go through the firewall. I used a bungie cord to pull the wiring harness out of the way while welding the maddog mount.
Thanks, I see nothing unsurmountable, just a couple kinks in the road. Speaking of kinks how about the brake line going through the firewall!!! I will try to use the original proportioning valve if possible.
Posted by: mlindner Jun 18 2023, 05:13 AM
All Porsche Boxster ane Cayman's have service covers in firewall for belt replacement and water pump replacement. Mark
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