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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 27 2023, 11:29 AM

In the future Porsche line-up, the 911 will stand alone.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/porsches-iconic-911-be-sole-survivor-automakers-combustion-models-2023-07-26/

Posted by: 914Sixer Jul 27 2023, 11:46 AM

So Europe is struggling to keep the power grid up and bringing old power plants back on line, all the more reason to go EV.

Posted by: Root_Werks Jul 27 2023, 12:00 PM

Nothing against EV's, heck, in 1903 97% of vehicles on the road were electric. I even 50% owned one of the early Tesla Roadsters (fun car) with a buddy of mine years ago.

I do see a major grid issue though. I've seen EV's waiting in line to charge for 30-60 minutes? Hours?

On our little island, there is very limited chargers/dedicated spaces. Tourist season sees many EV's waiting around to charge.

Posted by: VaccaRabite Jul 27 2023, 12:14 PM

There are places where they work, and places where they don't. I think over time, and not too far out - 10 to 20 years, charging stations will be like gas stations. And in 40 years gas stations will be like charging stations now - you have to look for them.

Porsche is leading the charge. Not a surprise given their relationship to VW, which is really pushing electric cars forward in Europe.

I hope to have my 4Runner for another 16 years. But when its time, I bet I'm shopping for an electric truck, not a gas one.

Zach

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 27 2023, 12:38 PM

I just sold my 250,000 mile Silverado and bought a Honda Ridgeline, but I suspect it too will probably be the last gas one I have. Maybe not, but maybe.

Posted by: dirk2056 Jul 27 2023, 12:52 PM

Good luck with the EV world stopped at a Buc-ee's The other day I was pump # 264 and every pump was being used. I figure it takes 10 to 15 min to fill a standard car or truck. No way in hell is there or ever going to be 264 charging stations in one location. I'm not sure what future technology is available EV look to be a long shot.

Posted by: 930cabman Jul 27 2023, 12:52 PM

How much do we know about the Shell racing fuel, I recently saw something in Pano about this fuel, not derived from the ground and very clean.

I am not sure EV is the answer?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 27 2023, 01:03 PM

He's a friend.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: targa72e Jul 27 2023, 11:26 PM

Ok, So my take on EV. If you own a house with a garage you will never visit a charging station unless you are on a trip of 300+ miles. Its like leaving your house with a full tank of gas every time you drive. If you do not own a house then you are at the mercy of where you can charge.
In my current life i drive most of my miles for work at about 15,000 miles a year (i do not commute to a office this is random locations about town for customer visits). I go 300+ miles a day about 6 times a year and 1200 miles 1 to 2 times a year. When I am going cross country (1200 miles for personal use) I rent a car. Renting for long distance travel ends up being less cost than the wear and tear on my own car ( based on general guidance of .55Cents per mile) and If my car breaks down I can swap for another from the rental company and I have road side assistance. I fully expect to have a EV in my future as a daily driver. With the demise of manual transmission cars I enjoy, I will have to enjoy my old manual transmission ICE cars when I am not driving the slog thru big city traffic or the 1-2 miles to the grocery store.

john

Posted by: VaccaRabite Jul 28 2023, 06:23 AM

This is about where I am too. Maybe a few more road trips in the about 300 mile range.
On hunting weeks I'll likely need to get a solar setup to charge the truck while it sits since the cabin is 100% off grid.

I keep finding myself looking at the ID Buzz, but I know I'm not buying a new car right now.

Zach

Posted by: r_towle Jul 28 2023, 06:36 AM

We have a plug in hybrid.
In the northeast we have started to see some more places to plug in, but not nearly enough.
We have solar on the roof….so I am up for a pure electric, while keeping a gas car for any longer (rare) trips.

I would love to see much smaller cars.
Short around town grocery getters do not need to be massive, and would be faster to charge…..

But, I too am waiting to see when I can buy the IDBuzz

Posted by: flipb Jul 28 2023, 07:14 AM

This is pretty much my life. Before bedtime, plug in car and cell phone. In the morning, both are ready for a full day. There's another perk too -- much, much less maintenance. No oil changes. Brakes last ages with regen doing most of the work. The only maintenance my (used, 99K miles) Tesla has had in the past 18 months is new tires, new wipers, new cabin air filter.

I have free supercharging and I still very rarely use public chargers. Overnight at home is just too convenient.

More condos & apartments are putting in charging accommodations too. Level 2 charging (AC 240v) is MUCH cheaper than DC fast charging to install and totally adequate in places where people park overnight.

Back on the original topic, I suspect we'll see a 911 with a full EV drivetrain selling alongside the combustion 911 for some years before the latter is phased out.

Posted by: Jim C Jul 28 2023, 07:52 AM

Cargo ship with over 2,00 cars including 500 EVs loaded at Bremerhaven, Germany is on fire in the North Sea. No news on makes of cars. 1 crewman dead.

Posted by: 73-914 Jul 28 2023, 07:54 AM

Posted by: VaccaRabite Jul 28 2023, 08:18 AM

Earlier this month a car carrier burned in the Port of Newark. No electric cars were on board. 2 died.

Fires on cargo ships are an issue that is older then automobiles by several hundred years. We are constantly working to make our ships and the cargo they carry safer because its good for business and good for society as a whole.

I don't find a fire on a cargo ship to be a valid argument against electric vehicles.

Zach

Posted by: Jim C Jul 28 2023, 08:42 AM

I wasn't making an argument against electric vehicles; I was reporting on a fire on a car carrier loaded probably with German cars. Porsches? A crewman reported the fire started in an EV and it isn't yet under control. Just the facts as reported, no conclusions.

Posted by: technicalninja Jul 28 2023, 09:56 AM

The word "SHIT" came from cargo ships blowing up and burning from the storage of dried cow dung (as fertilizer) in the holds of 17th century cargo ships.

The dung would get wet and release methane in the hold and when a crew member would go into said hold with a fire powered lantern the BOOM came out.

"Stow High In Transport" was printed on the sacks of dung and quickly became simplely "SHIT".

Posted by: Txbentleyboy Jul 28 2023, 10:08 AM

Buc-ee's would love to have you shopping an extra 15-30 minutes.

Remember, always follow the money!

Posted by: KELTY360 Jul 28 2023, 10:21 AM

That has to make the list for post of the year.

Posted by: 930cabman Jul 28 2023, 10:32 AM

It's full of stow high in transport.

BTW: what does this have to do with cargo ships and fires?

Great information though

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jul 28 2023, 05:41 PM

Of course, it's a bogus etymology. Just like the "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" one. Both amusing stories, both full of Stow High In Transport. Both words are older than the events that purport to be their origins.

--DD

Posted by: technicalninja Jul 28 2023, 07:43 PM

I always thought it was Fornication Under Consent of the King.

That's the best one I've heard of for shit, and it has the ring of truth to it.

So many of our word today are mash-ups from the different world powers that held dominance.

Posh IMO came from Port outbound, starboard home.

British passengers on ships heading from England to India before the advent of air conditioning.

This was supposable the cooler side of the ship to be on.

I don't know if it's true either. None of us do...

You guys were talking about cargo ships burning and I was just trying to add a bit of humor to the discussion.

I believe there were ships lost to methane explosions from the early transport of dried dung in lower holds. The article I read mentioned LLoyds of London as a source of data.

Might be complete BS as well...

Posted by: wonkipop Jul 29 2023, 03:36 AM

latest one burning.
its just off the coast of holland at present.
they are trying to tow it out of the shipping lanes.

confirmed. ev fire.
400EVs on board.
about 5,000 cars in total i believe.
infra red image.



its a bit of a problem.
yes petrol cars burn. mostly older ones? and lots more of them on road with suss fuel lines etc. but they burn when they are running.

these f#ckers burn turned off.

personally i would not have one in my garage, connected to my house.
nor would i live in an apartment building with these parked in basement garage.

i'm just saying.
batteries are fine. but the lithium ion batteries are not good tech.
they will get past this tech. but its not actually correct technology yet.
it will be.

anyway. i don't want one. i don't wan't to park next to one in the street.
its just too random? sure the odds are low. but..........

and i speak as an enthusiast of the original burner ----- the 914.
but they didn't sit in your garage and explode at midnight.

and as to car carriers burning.
i am a designer.
i get how car carriers are set up for fire regs.
its based on C02 flooding (previously Halon until ozone depletion came in) and its based on horizontal fire separation of decks and top down sprinklers.
none of which as measures can suppress a battery fire or a chain of battery fires.

same goes for your house or an apartment building you live in.
or if you are real fancy and live in an apartment building with a car stacker.

i am only a professional building designer. but if there are any fireman on this website i am sure they will chime in and back me up.

this stuff is truly problematic. and with accelerating EV take up its a real problem.

and you can solve problems.
but don't pretend for one minute its not serious, as a problem.

Posted by: wonkipop Jul 29 2023, 04:02 AM

that is the commonly held explanation of "posh" down here mate.

and australia is the former epicentre of every cringing forelock tuggin bit of insecurity when it comes to the mutha country.

poms. variation on the theme. englishmen stranded in the prison colony.
prisoner of her/his majesty.

the general argument is correct. ships were always going off due to their cargo.
or in the case of apollo 13 while happily sailing to the moon happening to denotate their cargo of precious oxygen simply by giving it a bit of a stir with a spoon.

anyway. someone is going to have to figure out how to put out a battery fire in an ev in a jam packed cargo hold or we are all going to be paying a huge hefty premium surcharge to buy our ev cars. esp down here. all of them now arrive by ship since we unwisely decided to de-industrialise. i can't even figure out what people do down here anymore. they don't make anything. they just drive to bunnings (the big hardware store chain) and get chinese screws and bolts and assemble crap for their garden decorations?

Posted by: dirk2056 Jul 29 2023, 05:56 AM

How true The longer you stay more you spend just think if they put in beer garden bubba food and beer you might stay long enough to get 100% charge.

Posted by: technicalninja Jul 29 2023, 06:32 AM

My youngest son Michael was a Track Marshall for MSR (Motorsport Ranch) up in Cresson for 3 years.
One of his jobs was fire suppression.

The little baby Li-on batteries make a car fire un-controllable. Usually take entire car and the garage it's parked in with it.

Best way to combat a Li-on fire is to bury it.

Only thing worse is a magnesium fire but that stuff is HARD to ignite in the first place and is never the source of the fire. It's the second stage of the fire.

The batteries are the source, for no good reason.

These batteries weigh less then 5 lbs and they wipe the car out. 100 lbs + only adds to the yield.

Ya'll will get a chuckle.

The nick name for Porsches (mostly 911s) is "fire lizard" for the guys at MSR.

They slither off the track and catch the grass on fire...

Car doesn't usually burn but they are pyromaniacs for the environment.

Posted by: 930cabman Jul 30 2023, 07:38 AM

+1

Posted by: thomasotten Jul 31 2023, 08:46 AM

Imagine a parking garage with 500 vehicles, and just one EV decides to ignite, and then all the chaos with people trying to get out through the bottle neck.

https://youtu.be/SIpXkQhq1ps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44IHYmyMiWw&t=916s&pp=ygURbWFjbWFzdGVyIHBvcnNjaGU%3D

I hear from a car handler in Germany, who works for Porsche, is that people don't want to buy elektrischen Porsches. But when a customer wants to buy a 911 or other petrol car, and they give a Taycan in as trade, they must take it in. But, they are hard to sell used, and in his words, he had 10 used Taycans standing there which noone wants.

Posted by: VaccaRabite Jul 31 2023, 10:52 AM

I fully agree the Lithium ion batteries are bad tech. I suspect they will phase out shortly or be legislated away. Battery tech will improve. It already has with the LiFePo4 tech which is MUCH safer concerning fire or explosion.

I literally loose sleep over all the little Li-ion batteries in the house in forgotten kids toys. :-/

Zach

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 12 2023, 07:03 AM

check out the latest on the fremantle highway.
the ship that was burning off holland that they finally dregged to port.

too dangerous to get the electric cars out of it that are below the decks that burned.
full of electric bmws, mercs and vw group cars.

the one full of porsches that sunk in the middle of the atlantic a little while back took its problems to the bottom with itself..........but not this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqvm2HEp4Uk

Posted by: TomE Aug 12 2023, 09:28 AM

I worked in the electric utility industry for 30 years. Our electric grid can't handle all the AC units when we have a prolonged heatwave. One major power supply in the midwest going down will cascade the entire east coast with no power. We came very close a couple of times. Our grid can not even begin to handle EV replacements for every vehicle. The worst part is there is absolutely no reason to change them over to EV.

Posted by: sixaddict Aug 12 2023, 03:05 PM

So EV is supposed to help the environment…..as long as you don’t consider the mining of stuff that goes into the batteries, disposal of batteries AND electrical capacity to charge them. Sorry but hard to buy into the “story”……..
Oh let’s burn some condos down with garage fires. …….seriously?

Posted by: type2man Aug 12 2023, 09:25 PM

Car companies will sell the cars that consumers buy. Remember that...

Posted by: mate914 Aug 13 2023, 07:09 AM

I don't agree with that. The free market use to work that way. Now the car companies are told how to built the new cars "EPA". Ford did not want to do and or lose all that money on electric cars"700 million". They were forced into it. Not by the consumers at all. I have a 10 year old Chevy 1500 with the frame rusted to the point it wont pass inspection. Consumers do not want that either, but chevy does.
Don't get me wrong here ... Electric cars are great. I just don't want it shoved down my throat like it is along with a few other social sins like pride.

Matt

Posted by: mate914 Aug 13 2023, 07:14 AM

I was wrong Ford lost 4.5 billion.

Posted by: campbellcj Aug 13 2023, 07:58 AM

I'm a fan/convert as well but totally agree that battery tech and power generation needs to keep progressing and in many areas the power grid needs serious maintenance and upgrading. Here in the LA burbs I have never so far in 2 years needed to charge my Tesla away from home, and it's been working out great for commuting and errands. Looking forward to what Porsche does with EV sportscar platforms ie the new Cayman. That being said I don't see fully giving up combustion engines in my lifetime and I hope synthetic or hybrid fuel tech also moves ahead so there's less reason for the politicians to try confiscating our ICE vehicles.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 13 2023, 08:32 AM

Tom only has 30 years experience, he just might know a thing or two.

Problem is, nobody is listening.

EV may have advantages, but we do need to look at the whole picture

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 13 2023, 08:34 AM

$4.5 billion probably chump change for Mr Ford

My guess, this will all pass

Posted by: technicalninja Aug 13 2023, 08:53 AM

I'm a 40-year experience gear head who loves hydrocarbon burning engines...

I believe the electrics are the way of the future.
Thier torque curve makes them stupid fun to drive.
They are quiet and emit basically nothing during their operation.
They have greater design variants. By the time the motors move into the wheels you can have a basically flat chassis that has all of the weight low.
Sky's the limit as to what you put on said chassis.

Two things have got to happen to make it work.

Electricity production will need to double or better. MSR reactors may be a path along with lots of re-newables. I like solar panels too.

Someone need to come up with a way to store electromagnetic energy is huge amounts, with zero fire risk, in a lightweight container that can accept and discharge large amounts of energy without effort.
The person who comes up with this "power cell" will be the next richest person on the planet.

Now, you're going to pry the keys to my ICE powered vehicles from my cold dead hands..
But,
Having an electric car for appliance car duty is perfectly fine in my book.

Posted by: vitamin914 Aug 13 2023, 09:28 AM

100%


My refrigerator runs on electricity and it too is an appliance.

ICE vehicles are like sex - the noise and the smells add to the experience. EVs are a bit too clinical.

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Aug 13 2023, 12:25 PM

Have a very similar use case, and very similar outlook.

Can't see my old stick-shift 914 going anywhere, and its simple/analog experience is only becoming more valuable to me given where the car world is going (and has already gone). If you think about sports cars from the standpoints of size, balance, form factor, materials quality, and support, the 914 is very, very hard to beat. It also stands up in terms of the quality and fun of its driving experience when compared to some of the greatest Porsche sports and racing cars of all time. Didn't expect that, back when I thought I wanted to move on and up from the 914.



^ We recently changed our family car to a PHEV, our first toe in, and also have rooftop solar + battery (both done for non-EV reasons).

For a "get-around" vehicle, it's pretty fantastic for the reasons others have stated in this thread: Even on a Level 1 / 120V charger, we aren't using much gasoline anymore—and longer intervals for brake linings on a daily car is very appealing. All that kinetic energy, for all those years, wasted in both $ and materials disposal. Particularly on the heavier family cars of today. In fact, the engine comes on so rarely I can see wanting to run it occasionally on purpose just to run it once we install a Level 2 charger. If it had 20~ more miles range on EV mode, I'm not sure we'd even bother with a Level 2 charger for daily use.

Would also love to see more small car options. Things to get around in don't need to be so big & heavy, and small size can be its own luxury—but I'd like to see the battery tech and safety improve first.



^ Great post, and agree with much of this.

Like you, I don't want an EV or PHEV inside of home's structure—and I definitely would not want to live in the apartment we rented when we were first married if an EV was charged or even just parked down there. Relatively low % chance of fire? Sure. But that's kind of like the low % chance with an M96 or M97 engine. While we had great luck with our M96, and my brother now has 236,000 trouble-free miles on it, we've lived through a house fire.

We've been thinking about a dedicated parking pad for a long time, which would be spaced from the house as well as our neighbor's by a fair bit and away from trees but near a wood fence we'd likely replace, and will definitely add a Level 2/3 charger when the time comes. As a designer, maybe you know: Have fire suppression systems been considered for EV charging points, whether indoors or out? Can see a point where enough of those car transport boats are lost that the floors will get something, and 02 evacuation will become a thing, or a better thing.

Posted by: technicalninja Aug 13 2023, 01:30 PM

I'm going to wait for the imaginary "power cell" I referred to.

A fire suppression system that can handle a full-on Li-ion battery fire will be a bad assed MOFO.


I have a real Halon extinguisher on my bench; a big one. It's 35 years old.

It will ONLY be used when ALL of the other extinguishers do not work...

I also have 8+ old style chemical extinguishers to go through first.


My buddy punched a small halon off into a fully engulfed Ford Explorer dash fire.

This thing had 10-foot flames coming out of the open doors.

His comment now is "Halon extinguishers will put out the SUN!".

Saved that Explorer...

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 14 2023, 03:31 AM

i like the way you are thinking.

maybe the problem on these car ships is because they can't use halon anymore they are are in a world of pain.

its catch 22.

alan arkin where are you?
typical problem our scientific world gets into.
hedged into a corner.
anyway.
problems.........
are there to be solved.

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 14 2023, 03:40 AM

there will be an answer to this at some point.

in the meantime, i don't know.
a good smoke detector.
whatever.
but be cautious sleeping next to one.
while you are out to the world is when you are most vulnerable.
again speaking as a designer.
you need enough time to escape whatever catastrophe unfolds, which if not of your own making while you are wide awake looking at it going "oh fark" you have enough time to do.
......time to start running.
but asleep its a different matter.

Posted by: jd74914 Aug 14 2023, 10:45 AM

Very true and generally underappreciated. It's one of the reasons I like my detached garage and further spaced shed for fuel storage. Separation of hazards from my house while sleeping or away.

Posted by: flipb Aug 14 2023, 12:10 PM

The challenge with EV batteries is that manufacturers want the battery encased in an armored shell to prevent damage due to impact, penetration, or accidents. That same armored shell makes it almost impossible for a fire department to fully douse a battery with thermal runaway. It's made more difficult by the fact that batteries fires don't require an external oxygen source.

That said, the incidence of BEV fires is way lower than the incidence of fires in combustion-engined vehicles (https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38225037/how-much-you-should-worry-about-ev-fires/).

One of the most vulnerable times for a vehicle to catch fire is during refueling... whether that's at the local gas station, on pit lane at a track, or at an EV charger, but only one of those is typically found in a residential building. And almost universally, refueling fires are the result of a screw-up... smoking at the pump, spilling fuel on an exhaust manifold, or having improperly wired/installed charge setups.

My Tesla charges overnight in the attached garage, which it shares with my 914. Between the two, there's only one I feel I need to check on a few minutes after driving to make sure it's not smoldering. It's not the Tesla.

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Aug 14 2023, 02:18 PM

We are very aware of this, as that was nearly our situation with our house fire.

We'd been up for maybe 30min, our 10yo was still asleep. Thankful the fire didn't start 30-40min earlier…not sure what would have happened.

Cause was electrical, ironically related to bringing the house up to code, and discovered by its smell well before the first fire alarm alerted. We have them throughout the house, all modern and interconnected.

Would the smell have awakened us? Not so sure...

Posted by: flipb Aug 16 2023, 01:35 PM

Interesting twist, if this is confirmed. Of course it won't get nearly as much media coverage as the "EV-carrying ship on fire" headlines a couple weeks ago.

https://thedriven.io/2023/08/14/sorry-ev-haters-big-ship-fire-probably-wasnt-caused-by-electric-cars/

TL;DR: According to the salvage company working the Fremantle Highway, all of the EVs aboard were parked on a low deck that was essentially spared from fire damage. The fire appears to have started on a high deck that contained no EVs.

Posted by: gnomefabtech Aug 16 2023, 06:00 PM

I've been driving some kind of EV as my in town daily for 10 years now and never bought anything but tires for them. I also never charge anywhere but home and since it's pretty rare to drive more than 250 miles in one day range is almost never an issue. I do have a gas car for the rare long trip though. I realize that not everyone can have two cars and a place to charge an EV but if you can, it's pretty hard to argue against them.

It's just a matter of time before the power grid expands and everything normalizes and considering how dirty oil extraction is both physically and politically I think we're moving forward by switching to EVs. Hopefully home solar will become even more common along the way and we can keep our vintage gas cars going for fun longer because of the gains we make switching over to EVs.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 16 2023, 07:51 PM

Might want to investigate where those rare earth, raw materials for Lithium-ion batteries are coming from and how they are obtained.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893248/red-cobalt-congo-drc-mining-siddharth-kara


https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/01/south-america-s-lithium-fields-reveal-the-dark-side-of-our-electric-future



Recycling of Lithium battery’s is just around the corner . . . Along with that grid upgrade.

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 17 2023, 03:44 AM

we shall see,
the website is not exactly without a stated position in relation to EV vehicles.
time will tell what went down.

Posted by: mate914 Aug 17 2023, 05:10 AM

If oil coming out of the ground is so bad. Why is lithium and cobalt coming out of the ground good? EV's are toys for rich people. That's what the owners tell me as I install charging outlets in peoples homes. Its just and a new toy.

Matt

Posted by: flipb Aug 17 2023, 06:47 AM

I love it when a rando on a message board tells me that my DD for the past seven years, in which I've driven countless commutes, carpools, road trips, loads of gear from Costco & Home Depot, while spending nearly zero on maintenance... is a toy.


It is, without a doubt, the most practical vehicle I've ever had.

Posted by: Shivers Aug 17 2023, 08:17 AM

From this guide the only thing you should not be maintaining is an ICE. With all that weight I’d think brakes, tires and axle bearings (whatever that may be on an EV) would be something I’d be checking often. And I’d imagine that the cost you’d put out to maintain an ICE will come when replacing the batteries. I had to look Rando up...

https://cyberbackpack.com/blogs/tesla-cybertruck-ev-blog/the-ultimate-guide-to-tesla-maintenance?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx46E0O3jgAMVPAKtBh2XaQ6AEAAYASAAEgImK_D_BwE

Posted by: flipb Aug 17 2023, 08:47 AM

I'm at 99K miles, and the brake pads are in great shape. Regen does most of the work. Unless it's a panic stop, I usually let Regen slow me down to ~15mph or less before using the friction brakes to come to a complete stop.

I replace the cabin air filter annually on my own. I top off windshield washer fluid and change the wipers on my own. I also replaced the headlight bulbs once, which was a PITA that involved removing the front wheel well liners.

A lot of Tesla owners complain about tire consumption but it hasn't been too bad for me. I just put on a new set after the Continentals lasted me around 30-40K miles.

My battery still has somewhere around 85% of its original capacity. I haven't done a 100% charge in a while to check... they recommend charging to 80-90% on a normal daily basis.

I probably should be on the lookout for wheel bearings and suspension bushings. I can go a couple of years without a Tesla tech looking at the car and finding things to recommend; it's easy to not think much about it.

Posted by: mate914 Aug 17 2023, 07:15 PM

I think your electric car is a good thing. I am glad you can afford it, but most tax payers can not. Wait, is not Fairfax the richest county in the United states? I said toy an it hurt you? What is a 914, but a great toy!
Matt

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 17 2023, 11:08 PM

ok - that story published in an ev enthusiast website is a distortion of the factual release of information concerning what has been found.

the fire did not spread down into decks 1-4.
deck 5 acted as a fire break. 5 is the loading deck.
the ship was not 100% loaded and deck 5 had been left empty.
they try to pack EVs into bottom decks because the cars are heavier.
little appreciated is that an EV is roughly twice as heavy as the equal ICE car.
(Which means your big super size US mega ute is a 4 ton car. its true).

as a result no cars were burnt down there.

about half the EV load of an inventory of 800 cars (thats the correct figure) were below deck 5. just less than 500 EVS.

the rest were on decks 6 and up.
so it has not been established that the source of the fire was not an EV.
the fire started on deck 8. burnt out the entire deck very quickly.
then spread upwards and also downwards due to radiation of the hot deck.
the decks around the source of the fire have collapsed and the cars are fused together and to the decks. last info i read said they can't fully get into those decks yet. too dangerous.

the are photos of burnt out taycans in areas of burnt decks, alongside almost melted 911s.

i believe a taycan is an EV?
so it really has not been established what ignited the fire.
but the deck on which the fire started is known.
and there were EVs, around 300 on the decks that burned.

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 17 2023, 11:36 PM

ps - as an aside @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10752
i am by no means an electric vehicle hater.
i have long looked for a honda insight gen1 to park in the garage alongside the 914.
ok its a hybrid. but i dig it.

i am however a lithium ion battery hater.
so i'd have to leave it outside at night.
i think the present batteries are prototype technology and i blame elon m for pushing it out there maybe too soon? there will be better batteries. less volatile. or not volatile even.

but i still want the honda.

Posted by: technicalninja Aug 17 2023, 11:55 PM

I wanted an Insight as well.

I wanted to do bad things with it...

Like set the 1.0L LSR record type of bad things.

Someone else had the same idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbNlR-fMlOw

Not only the fastest Insight ever, also the most destroyed...

For a while they were dirt cheap here, like $500 cheap.

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 18 2023, 03:10 AM

unfortunately they have never been cheap here.
only a handfull sold.
but one and a half handfulls of farkers knew they were real interesting.
which has defeated me in my usual quest of picking up a bargain on a genuine bit of avante garde auto NASA space junk. damn it.

but at least i got a 914 on those terms half a lifetime ago.

and i managed to stash a renault clio rs 172 the same way.

just need to nab that honda.

Posted by: vitamin914 Aug 18 2023, 07:10 AM

Maybe you should have called flipb's EV an appliance?

Just like an EV, my fridge runs on electricity and I haven't needed to do anything to it for 7 years. Of course maybe I should throw out that moldy thing growing in the corner...

A DD is an appliance in my eyes - what else could you call a Corolla?

I definitely agree that the 914 is a great toy... I spend more time playing with it than driving it and I don't take it to Costco either.

EVs have their place and will become more common (hopefully less expensive too). The hurt will come when the battery reaches an unreliable state and needs to be replaced. Congrats to the early adopters for helping push the technology along.

Right now every EV user is getting a free ride when it comes to road maintenance taxes. Gasoline is loaded with taxes in Canada... ~$5 (USD) per gallon for regular. Every EV is being subsidized by ICE vehicles. Once we reach a threshold with lots of EVs, or no new ICE cars to buy, governments are going figure out they need to tax them. Expect having to go to the DMV to report your EV milage (with verification) and pay a per mile tax each year or month... There is no reliable way with at home charging to tell which electron charged the car and which one ran your fridge. Of course since the EVs are all "connected" Elon could just send you a monthly tax bill knowing how far you've driven when and where... Big brother is tracking you...

So leave your cell phone at home, drive the 914, give big brother the finger and enjoy the freedom (while you can).

Posted by: flipb Aug 18 2023, 07:53 AM

As you noted, there are plenty of ICE vehicles that are appliances, too. The Kia I drove for seven years before I bought my used Tesla felt way more like an appliance. It did the job, and had zero soul (ironic, for a Kia). I bought my 914 when the Kia was my DD because I needed an outlet for fun driving.

The Tesla is appliance-like in some ways, but 5 sec 0-60 is pretty un-appliance-like. And for a heavy car, it handles well with all the weight down low. It's certainly not a "driver's car" but I wouldn't describe it as boring to drive either.

For what it's worth: many US states including Virginia, where I live, are figuring out how to extract tax revenue from EVs in lieu of paying gas tax. The "https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/taxes-fees/highway-use" is set to be approximately equivalent to a 30mpg car driving 15K miles per year. I average less than 10K (due to working from home) so they're making money on me, relatively.

If it were up to me, they'd implement a tax system for everyone based on vehicle Gross Weight and actual odometer miles driven per year. Would be easy enough since Virginia already has a mandatory annual safety inspection - just record the odometer reading.

There are now EVs for sale across a wide band of price points, including many below the median new car price in the US. Running costs are way lower than an ICE vehicle. Calling them rich people's toys is about 5-10 years out of date.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 18 2023, 08:09 AM

Don’t hold your breath waiting for EV’s to become less expensive.

All EV’s depend on RARE earth metals both for batteries as well for motor magnets. No one has outlined how or where all these rare earth, raw materials will come from as the entire world mandates EVs.

Mines are capital intensive and notoriously slow to bring incremental capacity online even when the location of reserves are known. Did anyone notice how much of the supply chain for rare earth materials is owned and controlled by China?

Then there is the fact that several OEMs have recently INCREASED pricing on EV’s despite slow sales that ought to be leading to discounted pricing.
Ford Lightening
Ford Mach-e
Chevy Bolt
Mercedes

New manufacturers that have increased pricing over initial offerings / reservation prices.
Rivian
Lucid

Yes, I’m aware Tesla has cut some pricing as they attempt to keep production numbers up and cash flow positive. Their model line up is aging and early adopter demand has been fulfilled at a price premium that they could command early on. Likewise, the price cuts have come with reduced battery capacity . . . So there’s that.

Posted by: VaccaRabite Aug 18 2023, 08:16 AM

I'm fighting for a new job that would require occasionally driving to DC (maybe once a week) from my home in York PA.

If I get the job, I'm probably going out and buying something like a Chevy Bolt or a Model 3. Something small and electric. No way do I want to have to drive my 4Runner to DC on anything that comes close to a regular basis- it probably would not fit in the parking garage...

Zach

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 18 2023, 08:28 AM

Average transaction price March 2023. $48,008



Average EV transaction price $53,438 March 2023

Second data set by segment:

Posted by: flipb Aug 18 2023, 08:34 AM

If this pans out for you, look into an older Model S with unlimited supercharging. Preferably a 75 or 85 kwh battery. They're falling into the low-$20K region. There are Superchargers up and down I-95, and there's one in York. If you luck out and find one with the first version of Autopilot, the highway drive will be pretty relaxing, too.

Posted by: flipb Aug 18 2023, 08:49 AM

No idea what point you're trying to make here... "many [EVs] below the median new car price in the US"

• Hyundai Ioniq 6 - $46,615 - range 361 miles
• Tesla Model 3 - $41,630 - range 272 miles
• Hyundai Kona - $34,885 - range 258 miles
• Chevy Bolt - $27,495 - range 259 miles
• Toyota bZ4X - $43,335 - range 252 miles
• Chevy Bolt EUV - $28,795 - range 247 miles
• Hyundai Ioniq 5 - $45,295 - range 303 miles
• Kia Niro - $40,875 - range 253 miles
• Nissan Leaf - $29,135 - range 149 miles
• Mini Hardtop Cooper SE - $30,895 - range 114 miles
• Volkswagen ID.4 - $40,290 - range 209 miles
• Ford Mustang Mach-E - $44,795 - range 247 miles

Besides, are you really arguing that the 11% premium commanded by the Average EV puts them out of reach?

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 18 2023, 09:05 AM

I think that’s fair pushback.

My main point was that as a segment average, EVs are not changing hands at prices below average ICE vehicles. The data is clear in that despite what individual EV models may sell for.

In addition, EV transaction prices don’t account for needed infrastructure to charge an EV at home. That can add $500 (run a basic 240v outlet) to several thousand dollars (service panel upgrade) to the “cost” of obtaining an EV.

Likewise, if a vehicle is needed that requires more than a couple hundred miles of range, the prices of capable EVs rise quickly above the MSRP’s that you have listed (which is a fair point that cheaper EVs are available).

Posted by: VaccaRabite Aug 18 2023, 10:38 AM

I don't know how much I'd need to use a supercharger station, but almost all the Sheetz stations around me have installed a row of superchargers.

Ford is also in talks with Tesla to be able to use their Superchargers, and it SEEMS like this is becoming the standard. That said, I have 220 available in my house, and should be able to keep the car topped up fully between uses.

I'm a little bit afraid of the price, but I'm also kinda waiting for the VW ID Buzz to come out stateside. Lots of rumors at this point, but the US market is supposed to have a longer range then the Euro version. We shall see.

Working at Federal agencies, I know my current home office has preferred parking and free charging available - and its all Solar based which is kinda cool. I don't know if the new agency has something similar or not. I scoffed when they installed that back in 2012-2013. But within a few years there were always Teslas parked there during the day.

If I get an electric car that will also probably be the tipping point for me to look into rooftop solar. That technology seems to be getting better every day.

Zach

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 18 2023, 02:22 PM

govt. is already taxing them here via the annual registration fee.
for that very reason.

greens party boo hoo-ed when tax was introduced and stamped their feet.
went the moral high ground argument about cleaning up the world.
certain lobby groups hit back pointing out relative weight of EV means every single EV = 2 ICE cars pounding at the potholes.

won't be long before the electric scooter, electric bike goons have to have a driver's license and rego plates. cops are already complaining to govt. they can't book em for speeding or breaking road rules. and since they lowered town speed limits to absurdly low levels about 1 year ago (snuck all the 30kmh 40mh 25 kmh signs in during the vid lockdowns) the silent death scooter kooks are easily breaking the hoon laws designed to turn all us car drivers into "dangerous criminals".

Posted by: vitamin914 Aug 18 2023, 04:09 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=24231

Good gawd Wonki... 51 km/h in a 50 zone gives you ticket too?! I thought Canada was bad... Is the insanity bleeding over from Kiwis or home grown? The Kiwis seem certifiable too...

I'm sure Canuckland would be similar in mentality by now if it wasn't the next door moderating influence of the Excited States of Merica.

Posted by: Spoke Aug 18 2023, 07:12 PM

I do a lot of highway driving these days in my 2018 BMW 330i. On the long highway commutes I regularly get 35-37MPG. Not too shabby for a twin turbo 4 banger along with over 400 miles between fillups.

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 19 2023, 02:36 AM

its exactly the same insanity in both commonwealth countries @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=25893
we are paying for the nutcase lockdown economics?
but our situation is extreme and its particularly focussed in the state i live in.
zero tolerance on speed limits.
the effect is in a say 40kmh zone everyone drives at 30-35ks.
i can't even get the 914 out of second gear locally.
but i have got a few local spots where i can give her a short burst and wind up.
its even worse out on the main highways.
turkeys sucking on the plastic tit of their cardboard caffe lattes with cruise control sit in the right hand lane half asleepl at 100k on a 110 k highway while big rigs driven by amphetamine hopped hard working truckies scream past them on the left with their advance intelligence on where the cameras are set up.
- thats the right hand shoulder lane scenario for you dudes who drive the right way around.

there are mobile cameras everywhere. george orwell was right on the money.

the kiwis are angry. they kicked out the chick with the big teeth.
she might have been the darling on the world stage but i hear the kiwis hated her guts.
across both sides of politics. for what she did to them.
locked em up at the drop of a hat.
they have my sympathy.

i own my own business. i just wrote myself permits to go wherever i needed to during lockdowns for essential construction site visits. it was legit. but i felt sorry for all the folks who did the work from home gig glued to their lap tops in their pyjama bottoms.

actually i miss the lockdown. lots of empty streets and lots of hard cornering.
in some ways i want it back.

Posted by: TomE Aug 19 2023, 12:07 PM

Problem is no one is listening? Well thank you. It is very complicated and VERY expensive to rebuild the grid. Guess who is going to pay for it?

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 19 2023, 05:47 PM

you sound like the blokes i talk to down in the latrobe valley.
they hang out at the metung sailing club.
all ex oil and gas engineers from the bass straight oil fields (esso - exxon).
along with the old retired coal power station chief engineers.
they are saying the same thing while quietly shaking their heads and hoping they are not around long enough to experience the chaos or cop the costs.

probably the most stupid thing happening here is there was a chance to replace either one or two of the current brown coal fired power stations with a gas fired set up.
the gas is just off shore but the current govt. has banned any further exploitation of the reserves. it could have been diverted off the pipe lines that already exist a very short distance to the current power station locations. from there the entire high voltage transmission system could have remain intact.

it would have made complete sense as bridging tech for the next 25 years.
it would have reduced C02 emissions from electrical generation to 1/3 of present levels.
it would have guaranteed energy security and probably could have coped (just) with charge demands on EV take up which is just going to escalate.

but no. instead we are trying to connect to giant pv panel farms that apparently will be built in south australia and turn hundreds of acres of the beautiful desert into a giant mirror.
AND require a complete rebuild of the high voltage transmission lines.
ie shift them to the other side of the state completely and come in from the other direction.

Already the farmers are going mental. huge swathes of prime grazing and farming land will ultimately be ordered seized under govt. legislation to build this transmission system.

its madness because its trying to be too absolute, too quickly. it can't be pulled off?
the plan is just plain extreme with no plan B backup.

on top of that australians remain rigidly opposed to any kind of nuclear option.
(maybe thats just as well, who knows).

i imagine its the same in the USA.

toyota is here with the hydrogen alternative. sure its got problems but they are backing it big. at a minimum heavy transport will be hydrogen fuel powered. of that i have absolutely no doubt. maybe not cars. but definitely the bigger stuff.
be a lot of water vapor in the atmopshere then i suppose?

Posted by: mate914 Aug 19 2023, 06:38 PM

We the tax payer... Government has no money, except what they take from you. Ukraine has lots of it. How many other governments tax the citizens and send it to other country's with zero over sight? Can I say 0%!

Matt

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 19 2023, 06:46 PM

Dumb question:

How does one proceed when they run out of gas er, charge?

will AAA come and have the ability to fast charge

Posted by: Spoke Aug 25 2023, 11:40 PM

Very wise decision by Porsche to keep the 911 an ICE vehicle. It is the icon of the brand and will only get better and better. As long as the other sports car brands like Ferrari, Lamborghini, McClaren, etc make ICE vehicles so will Porsche need to stay in the game.

EVs are the future of automobiles. The electric motor drivetrain is so simple and efficient compared to an ICE drivetrain. Railroads have been using EVs for almost 100 years. Battery technology has gotten to a point where it is feasible for cars to carry enough batteries to make the battery EV practical.

It's interesting to think about the similarities between the diesel electric locomotive and EVs. The topology of both are nearly identical. Both get their electrical power from a driven alternator. The diesel drives its alternator with a diesel engine carrying both the alternator and diesel engine along with a tank of diesel fuel. The EV gets its power from alternators driven by coal/gas/oil/hydro/solar/wind/geo. Like the diesel, the EV carries its fuel with it stored for this generation of EVs in batteries.

Battery EVs are ok but have limitations on refueling. Charging overnight is great if you have a garage or off steet parking or charging stations at work. If not like many who live in apartments or even condos like I have with a large parking lot and no electricity close by, doing a refuel during the day for the better part of an hour isn't a step forward in progress. Hopefully the next generation of EVs will solve the long refuel issue with battery EVs.

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 26 2023, 03:29 AM

yep

the racv (equal of the AAA) have fast charge emergency battery pack vehicles.
not many yet but they are acquiring a fleet.
gives enough charge to get you to the nearest charge station.
if not its a tow on a flat bed with dolly wheel carts to haul you up on the bed.
then they dump you at the charge station.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 26 2023, 06:07 AM

And how is this better than a fine tuned ICE?

Maybe in another decade, maybe not

For me an EV has quite a ways to go before one is in my garage

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 26 2023, 06:33 AM

EVs are the future of automobiles.

Sadly, EVs are a regression to the early 1900s. Nothing new here.



Railroads have been using EVs for almost 100 years.

There used to be electric railroads - they no longer exist for long haul freight use due to the lack of efficiency at which they operated vs a modern conventional rail system. Obviously I’m excluding Mag-Lev, local commuters, Subway, etc.


https://www.smworks.org/blog/lost-at-loweth


It's interesting to think about the similarities between the diesel electric locomotive and EVs. The topology of both are nearly identical. Both get their electrical power from a driven alternator. The diesel drives its alternator with a diesel engine carrying both the alternator and diesel engine along with a tank of diesel fuel. The EV gets its power from alternators driven by coal/gas/oil/hydro/solar/wind/geo. Like the diesel, the EV carries its fuel with it stored for this generation of EVs in batteries.

So - they aren’t the same topology at all. The diesel locomotive is more like a hybrid automobile. Power generation is on-board, uses fossil fuel to generate power which is then supplied to the electric motor for propulsion. Why is it that hybrid automobiles such as the Prius aren’t viewed as a legitimate step forward as an automotive option? Even a Prius can’t meet the new NHTSA mandates proposed for CAFE . . .

Hopefully the next generation of EVs will solve the long refuel issue with battery EVs.

Yup - I’ve personally been hearing that since 90’s and GM’s EV1 program. I’ll bet they were saying this in 1910 too.

Posted by: mate914 Aug 26 2023, 06:47 AM

They bring a gas powered generator to give enough power to get you to charging station. No fast charge.
Matt

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 26 2023, 07:03 AM

Tired internet meme. Couldn’t help myself



Reality:
They bring you a charge with a RAM 3500 burning diesel


https://www.geekwire.com/2013/aaa-electric-charging-mobile/

Be sure to read article. Available only in large metro areas. Will only give you 3-15 miles of range to get to the nearest charging station. If you’re fortunate, when you get there the charging station will be working.

“Not only is the availability of public charging still an obstacle, but EV owners continue to be faced with charging station equipment that is inoperable,”
https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/17/23308612/ev-charging-broken-unreliable-survey-jd-power

Don’t try this in middle of Montana, Wyoming, Nebraska, etc.

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Aug 26 2023, 10:44 AM

We're a few more weeks into living with our first PHEV, a Mazda CX-90, and liking it a lot. Its battery is much (!) smaller than a full EV's, with less environmental damage and future waste, yet it handles 90-95% of our daily use on electric only and won't strand us. We can go weeks without topping up the gas tank—and that's on the Level 1 (110V) charger it came with. With a Level 2, I suspect we may want to run the engine occasionally just to do so if Mazda's engineers haven't already thought about that.

If we can get to better/more stable batteries and move daily range from 25~ miles on a charge to, say, 40-50 miles, it would be more or less a perfect family truckster for so many people out there. It seems like this should be the focus, rather than EVs.

Ah, and 80-90% of the braking is handled by regen, a huge benefit in terms of brake servicing costs on heavier vehicles not to mention waste materials. So I can focus brake pad budget on more interesting cars…

Posted by: vitamin914 Aug 26 2023, 11:31 AM

New technology to convert your all-electric Taycan or any EV into a hybrid !!!

UNLIMITED RANGE !!!

NO MORE RANGE ANXIETY !!!






apologizes to Pelican's April 1 email

Posted by: Spoke Aug 26 2023, 11:38 AM

Maybe we're talking about 2 different topologies. When I refer to an EV it is a vehicle which gets all its traction energy through wires to an electric motor like this picture. This diesel electric locomotive has the same topology as a battery EV with the addition of the battery being between the alternator and the motor thus being able to disconnect from the alternator providing the energy.

The diesel electric does have a disadvantage of not being able to store and reuse braking energy and needs those large ballast resistors and fans seen on the tops of locomotives.

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Aug 26 2023, 12:05 PM

Years ago, there was a brilliant ad campaign ahead of each episode of Top Gear UK, which had audio of someone breathing in and out while the video considered the amount of freight that could be moved on a single gallon of diesel via diesel-electric locomotives. It was extremely compelling.

Not sure if hybrid tech could be applied to trains, or if it would be meaningful given how efficient they already are (?), but I remember thinking it was a crime how much freight is moved by air or truck in North America (and, presumably, elsewhere).

Not to mention the fact that trucks don't mix well with cars at freeway speeds, and destroy roadways. But years later, legislation is still concentrating on light cars because cars bad.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 26 2023, 12:10 PM

I’ll split the difference - neither of our analogies are perfect.

The diesel locomotive lacks the battery like a hybrid automobile but it certainly isn’t an EV in the sense that it’s not obtaining power directly from a battery pack.

My broader point was that there is a concerted effort to focus on EVs as the solution to the exclusion of hybrids which are far more practical in day to day use and don’t come with the EV range and battery weight penalty.

The fact that NHTSA is trying to mandate conventional ICE and hybrids out of existence is telling.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 26 2023, 12:13 PM

Didn't the professor have an EV in the 1890's?

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 26 2023, 12:20 PM

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/taycan/history-18563.html

“However, the Lohner-Porsche also demonstrated why electric mobility has failed over the decades: despite its modest power output, the car weighed almost two tonnes. The lack of infrastructure and the short range put an end to electromobility for a long time.”

Lithium ion batteries and modern power electronics have made it better . . . But truly nothing new.

Posted by: technicalninja Aug 26 2023, 12:51 PM

Most "hybrids" use an electrical motor in tandem with an ICE engine and both propulsion systems actually drive the wheels.
This is hideously complex regarding the smooth application of power. It doesn't improve the gas mileage enough to make the initial expense and the battery maintenance worthwhile IMO.
Years ago, my local newspaper did a cost comparison and found out just how far you would have to drive the hybrid to break even over a standard gas engine.

The only car that scored nicely was the Toyota Prius. Compared to a base Camary you would need to drive the Prius 50K to break even.

Some of the other hybrids were in the 500K range and this comparison did NOT take battery life into the equation...

Prius are a different breed of cat.
2nd gen and up, they are very close to the diesel locomotive.
All of the motive force comes from an electric engine. The ICE engine drives a big-assed generator (which doubles as the starter) and depending on your driving style it can really achieve 50+ MPG.
One of my buddies bought one new for his wife.
She drove it from Cresson to Irvine for 10+ years.
Just after they bought it new, I named it!

I referred to it as "The Anti-Car".

A car for people who do NOT want to drive!
She got 51 MPG for 195k worth of mileage.
They brought it to me at 195K and Jennifer said "I HATE this car, it's killing my back!
I'm tired of driving it and want something else. Find something wrong with it so I won't feel bad about getting rid of it."

I went over it with an electron microscope.
Couldn't find shit wrong with it at 200K.
It didn't even need front brakes.
Toughest little car I've ever seen.
Drop dead boring to drive but drop dead reliable as well...

Blake, my friend, a car nut had an Infinity Q45. Super nice 400 hp hiway missile.
It had a bunch of expensive stuff going out on it.

I said "Dude, you're screwed! You need to get rid of the Q, get Jen something she likes, and drive The Anti-Car until you get one of your Fieros up!"

He drove it for 2 years. Cresson to Ft. Worth, another 70k worth. He sold it to a work mate we both know, and that guy is still using the AC today for his daughter,
It's over 340K now and very little has broken...

Blake consistently got 38 mpg out of it.
Damn close to a normal 4cyl Camary.
You have to drive it like "someone who does not want to drive" to get the mileage!

Posted by: Spoke Aug 26 2023, 06:24 PM

Hopefully future EVs will not need the batteries. It just seems like it would take an awful lot of batteries to power all EVs if we're going to go 100% EV like some states have mandated. Some new energy technology will be developed that will allow quick refueling and long range.

Air Products is working on Hydrogen fuel cells to power EVs. They had one on display near my house last year. The spokesperson said it had a range of 400 miles and would take 5-10 minutes to fully refuel.

https://www.airproducts.com/applications/automobiles

Posted by: wonkipop Aug 31 2023, 02:24 PM

unloading some top roasted and part damaged EVs off the Freemantle Highway.







they are driving the undamaged ICE vehicles off after water wash decontamination at the loading hatch......but craning the BEV cars off. only the damaged EVs are getting dropped in the bath tub. (they are not still on fire, but do have damage so they just go straight in the tank, its steam not smoke coming off. damaged lithium battery is reacting with the water).

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 31 2023, 07:13 PM

4000 lbs of toxic environmental waste. some insurance company paying through the nose to dispose of that hulk after it gets placed in its car coffin.

Posted by: wonkipop Sep 1 2023, 02:59 AM

right on superhawk.

as well its a souped up OH&S issue for anyone standing within 20 feet of it -
then the disassembly. poisonous substances etc.

is OH&S an understood abbrev in USA.
occupational health and safety.

welcome to the farken future. its so rosy.