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Posted by: Junioren Jan 9 2024, 05:52 AM

Good morning to all of you readers.

I recently imported a 75 2.0 914. VIN and chassis numbers have been located and seem in order, however I am unable to find the engine number in its usual spot.

What could be explanations for having an engine without an engine number? When engines were replaced by VW/Porsche, would these new engines possibly have no number on them?

Thanks,
Raf (from Luxembourg/Europe)

Posted by: bdstone914 Jan 9 2024, 06:22 AM

I have heard that repkacement cases had no serial number.

Posted by: Shivers Jan 9 2024, 07:37 AM

I had to buy a new case after a disaster. It also had no numbers.

Posted by: Junioren Jan 9 2024, 07:59 AM

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. So in such case it is most likely to be an original engine, however one that replaces the initial from the factory?

Posted by: jhynesrockmtn Jan 9 2024, 08:47 AM

It would be really hard to tell without more history on the car. It could very well be "original" in that it was replaced by Porsche within the cars warranty period, or someone changed it out along the way. I'd be more concerned with making sure it is a proper 2.0 and wasn't replaced along the way with a 1.7 or 1.8 by a prior owner. Others with more expertise can help on that front.

Welcome and good luck with your new car!

Posted by: Superhawk996 Jan 9 2024, 08:57 AM

Did you check up at front of engine by the oil fill tower?

Posted by: davep Jan 9 2024, 09:27 AM

There are three locations for the engine serial #. The early version for the 1.7 & 1.8 is on that angled boss near the flywheel end of the case. The 2.0 engines have it up front of the oil fill tower. The 912E 2.0 had it on the fan shroud instead so if that was changed it may appear to be missing entirely. A factory replacement engine or a remanufactured engine from dealer network (engines were remanufactured by VW Canada in Toronto) would all have serial numbers but generally marked AT. A rebuilt engine on a new case would have no serial #. The original serial # can be determined, so if needed, then contact me by email.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 9 2024, 09:58 AM

did you look down in the canyon between the oil filler and the front impeller housing?

Posted by: Junioren Jan 9 2024, 03:32 PM

A sticker on the engine provides the engine family identification as "17". Does anyone have any idea whether this would be a CA or a USA-49 engine edition?


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Posted by: Junioren Jan 9 2024, 03:37 PM

That is indeed where I checked and was expecting it, but no.

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Posted by: Junioren Jan 9 2024, 04:04 PM

Hello guys,

I just dump the information I have but the mystery gets bigger for me:

Engine family: 17 (I thought this was only for 1976 2.0 engines) - displacement 120 CID so I believe it is a 2.0 l
Engine number (embossed in the space where the earlier engines had their number): EA013495 (so outside the known number range for the 1.7 engines)

Any plausible thoughts on what could have happened


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Posted by: fiacra Jan 9 2024, 06:48 PM

I thought all EA code engines were 1.7? Can you post pictures of the top of the engine? The number of studs on the intake as well as the position of the spark plugs is different on the 2.0 heads. Could also be your engine is a "hybrid" of parts. A 1.7 case can be used to build a 2.0 engine. Curious to see what the final answer is....

Posted by: wonkipop Jan 9 2024, 07:29 PM

the engine number is not outside the known engine range for EA engines.
the EA 1.7 was also used in USA 411 and 412 models.
the engine numbers are not sequential for 914s but are intermixed with 411/412 models.
same thing goes for the EB (73 california) 1.7 and later EC (1.8 engines) also shared with the VW 412 (at least for 74). only time the small engine becomes a 914 only engine is the 1.8 of 75.



i'd say the original case was destroyed (engine damage or wear) and has been replace with a 1.7 case or perhaps even 1.7 short motor? the fan casting is from the original 2.0 L engine complete with correct emission sticker for a later 2.0?



PS don't be confused by the extra 0 in the engine numbers in the VW/Porsche parts catalogue listing. the same thing goes for the EC engines. for some reason they have a zero (or is it an O?) after EA/EB/EC in the parts engine number listing. but its not there on the actual stamp number on any engines.

Posted by: emerygt350 Jan 9 2024, 08:05 PM

Show us the heads! A 1.7 block is fine if they put all the 2.0 meat on it.

Posted by: JeffBowlsby Jan 9 2024, 08:08 PM

Missing a couple important details to know what you have and what you should have.

Post photos of the intake manifold to head connection and general engine overall from both sides of the engine bay.
Post a photo of the label on the drivers side engine bay above the relay board.

Posted by: wonkipop Jan 9 2024, 08:10 PM

engine family 17 is the 75 MY terminology for the GC-a series 2.0 L engine for 49 states of USA. 18 is the GC-b california engine of 75. the internals of the engine were the same USA and california. it was the equipment fitted to the engine that was different.
someone like @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=104 knows all that stuff. 2.0L are above my paygrade.
i do lame engine 1.8s.


another clue as to exactly what bits and pieces you might have.
if the tinware is the original 2.0 L tin and it has not been repainted there might be a white paint stencil three digit code number on it. if the tin is from a 75 49 sttates 2.0 L the number 925 will be there. on upper surface of tinware on either right or left hand side up close to where the tin joins the fan casting. usually its hidden from direct view by one or other of the heater blower motor hoses.



PS - the other clue its not a californian 75 2.0 besides being engine family 17 is the emissions sticker notes its "USEPA" conforming. if it was a californian spec engine the sticker would say "USEPA and Cailfornia regulations".
or in this case the fan casting is USEPA conforming.

Posted by: davep Jan 9 2024, 09:26 PM

EA013495 should be an October 1971 engine, but that fan shroud was not on an engine through the 1974 model year. This leads me to believe the engine was pieced together.

Posted by: wonkipop Jan 10 2024, 01:48 AM

he has a 75 2.0 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1244
not a 74.
see first post by OP.
i think the fan shroud and sticker is likely off the original car since the emission sticker is for a 75 2.0! and also in the correct spot for a 75.

but you are right. she has been pieced together.
somewhere along the way she has let herself implode.
why not. thats what 914s are for.
the cars are half a century old now!!!

mine is about to turn 50 in two weeks time.' with its original engine.
thats never been apart. i'm thinking to myself thats pretty fricken amazing.
how did i get to here with the car and both of us stay relatively intact.
we both must have paced ourselves. a little too conservatively?
i conclude i have not lived hard enough!

Posted by: nditiz1 Jan 10 2024, 07:55 AM

One thought, it could be a 912E case. They never had an engine number from the factory. The Ljet setup was very similar to that of the 914.

I actually have a 914 engine in my 912E, but has the 912E engine shroud. The 912E engine shroud is what held the engine number for the car.

EDIT: missed davep already went over this.

Posted by: Junioren Jan 10 2024, 09:03 AM

Thanks Jeff for the info. I post some pictures from all sides.


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Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 10 2024, 09:06 AM

75 76 air pump 2.0 engine for the 49 states but should not have a vacuum advance hooke up and looks like the oil filler is the earlier one by the size of the hose

Posted by: JeffBowlsby Jan 10 2024, 10:27 AM

Considering all the above, looks like you started with a 75 2.0L 49-state engine, which now has a case change to an early 1.7L case, with the original hardware swapped onto it.

Posted by: Junioren Jan 11 2024, 02:16 PM

Thank you Jeff for your help... on another note, when starting to take of the metal parts on the engine I noticed some bolts going into the cylinderheads (see picture). I cannot find them in the Porsche parts catalog and I am unsure of their purpose. Anyone know? Are these merely to hang the engine whilst works are done? Or do they serve a purpose?


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Posted by: JeffBowlsby Jan 11 2024, 03:21 PM

Those are capped off air injectors, supplied by your also missing air pump and its piping. All 75 2.0s would originally have that system. Emissions.

Posted by: rjames Jan 11 2024, 03:38 PM

What's with the plugged adapter? Looks like it's coming off of the advance port on the TB... but I thought that the later throttle body's didn't have an advance port. My '75 2.0 didn't.

Posted by: emerygt350 Jan 11 2024, 04:04 PM

We need to see the ports on the plenum. Looks like a real mix of pieces. TB from a 73 or really early 74 2.0. The ports on plenum will tell us if that is 73 as well. That thing you circled looks like an O2 sensor!

Posted by: wonkipop Jan 11 2024, 06:16 PM

well spotted.

i don't know too much about the 2.0 L cars.
but there was a difference between the calif spec and 49 states.
calif had EGR but 49 states did not.

and calif def had EGR vacuum initiated off "advance" port on TB.



from what i have seen it was the 49 state 75 2.0L that did not have an "advance" port on TB.

neither version used timing advance from advance can on distributor.
only retard side. ( but @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=104 will correct me if i am wrong).

i am more familiar with the 1.8s.
contrary to myth the 1.8s did not divide purely on model years when it came to the set up for advance and retard of timing and whether or not the TB had both an advance and retard port.
the 74 49 state 1.8 had advance and retard ports on TB and used both coupled up to the advance and retard sides of the can on the distributor.
the 74 calif 1.8 only had a retard port on TB and only hooked up the retard can on dist.
the 75 49 state 1.8 was as per 74 californian.
75 californian used the 74 49 states TB with both ports but hooked up the advance port on the TB to the EGR.

from what i can glean about 75 2.0s its a similar scenario.
advance port on TB hooks up to EGR on californian.
no advance port on TB for 49 state cars which don't have EGR.

not sure if californian 75 2.0 had the air pump and air injection either.
instead had cat and EGR. but not 100% sure. tech book that jeff bowlsy has on his website which i have looked at for the 1.8s has the 2.0 info in it.
seems to say they did with EGR and cat additional.
cars that exist today of course have mostly got all this stuff missing.



its got the correct air cleaner for a 75.
has the connection plate for EGR.
which is blanked off in this case. as it should be for a 75 49 states.
and in other photos you can see it has the smog pump pulley on the fan.
seems to be in accord with the emissions sticker on fan casting and stencil stamp on tin saying its a 75 49 state.

but you and emory are right about the throttle body.
from what i can tell it should not have an advance port opened up.
either a 73/74 T/B or a 75 calif T/B?

Posted by: wonkipop Jan 11 2024, 07:02 PM

i missed the doctors post at top of page.
he would know re TBs on these cars.

Posted by: Junioren Jan 12 2024, 03:20 PM

Thanks for all your help on previous questions.

I have opened the valve covers of the cylinder heads to see the ref number on them (still trying to find out if I am now running a 1.7 (as the engine number indicates) or a 2.0 (what I thought it was originally).

The cylinder head ref reads 039 101 371 A (I think a 2.0 cyl head).

Would I need to dig deeper to know whether the engine is in fact a 1.7 turned 2.0 or still a 1.7?

Any suggestions on how I could find the answer to that?

Thanks


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Posted by: Shivers Jan 13 2024, 09:27 AM

The 1.7 and the 2.0 have a different stroke. Maybe you can measure that to get your answer.

Posted by: emerygt350 Jan 13 2024, 10:35 AM

And unless it is a bus 2.0 the intakes on the Porsche 2.0 has 3 bolts. 1.7 has 4. Your spark plugs are in the 2.0 position though, so you certainly don't have 1.7 heads. Not sure if the exhaust on the bus went out the sides or down like the 914.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 15 2024, 02:28 AM

All of the Type IV motors have bottom-side exhaust ports. That's one of the things that makes them a Type IV motor. The pre-72 Buses that have exhaust ports on the front and rear sides of the head have Type I style motors, not Type IV.

The plug angle already says these are 2-liter 914 heads. It is possible but very unlikely for someone to use those heads on a smaller-displacement motor. You're probably OK to assume the engine is a 2.0 one. If you really want to be sure, you can find someone to "pump the engine" and measure the air flowing into or out of the engine through a complete combustion cycle. But I wouldn't bother, myself.

--DD

Posted by: emerygt350 Jan 15 2024, 11:06 AM

I bet if they went through the trouble of a new case they probably used the old sleaves and pistons or maybe even upgraded. Can't imagine keeping the 1.7 setup if you are going that far.