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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Project 3.6 RS Thread
Posted by: Steve Feb 5 2024, 10:57 AM
After 23 years of service out of my 3.2, I decided to buy a used 1995 3.6 from LA Dismantler with 110k miles on it. I paid $25k for the motor, Plus an additional $3k from PMS for conversion parts. Got this motor home and two of the cylinders had bad leak down from the exhaust valves. Lots of goofy issues with 3.6 motors. They have an electric smog pump which clogs the SAI passages in the exhaust valves. Sometimes you can turn the engine over with compressed air through the spark plug openings and use a rubber mallet on the exhaust valves to clear it out. This did not work for me, so I sent my motor out to get a top end overhaul, bigger valves and RS Cams.
This will not be an RS spec motor. RS Spec is 3.8 liters, bigger valves, different injection, etc. My motor is just a 1995 993 motor with one size bigger valves, RS cams and steve wong chip. I asked PMS about the 3.8 slip ins and they said their is very little noticeable difference between the two and not worth it unless your changing the P&C's anyway.
LA Dismantler lessons learned:
-Get a warranty in writing
-Do a leak down at their location before buying the motor.
I did neither and they came up with a ton of excuses not to help me.
This is also true for any wrecking yard. My Euro 3.2 also came from a wrecking yard with no warranty, but that motor was flawless.
This will probably be a very slow progress thread. I still work full time and have a family. I bought this motor two years ago and finally pulled the 3.2 a couple of weeks ago. I sold the 3.2 to the guy that did the top end overhaul on my 3.6. On the 3.2, two of the cylinders had poor leak down, due to weak rings. The motor ran great before I pulled it and all the spark plugs looked the same. So I was very surprised about the leak down results. Besides spending $4500 to PMS three years ago to reseal this engine, it has never been apart. The PMS reseal was due to the normal oil leaks around the cam chain housings and other areas. Who knows how many miles were on it. The guy who bought it said the rings are weak and to spray WD40 in the cylinders. Sure enough it brought the leak down, from 30% down to 3% on one cylinder and from 10% down to 5% on the other. He plans on doing a top end overhaul on it and flipping it or putting it in one of his 914's.
I will add pictures and more info as time goes on.
Old Euro 3.2 motor
Used 3.6 motor
Posted by: Steve Feb 5 2024, 10:57 AM
Got stripped motor back from the top end overhaul. First thing I noticed so far was two stripped exhaust valve cover screws. I was going to install a couple helicoils, but I was able to clean the threads with a metric tap and dye set and use slightly longer 6x35 Allen screws versus stock 6x30. I don’t know why they went to smaller Allen screws on the 3.6. They are very easy to strip. Only 7 lbs of torque. I also installed Rennline valve covers. I had to grind down the top one to clear the oil line.
Posted by: Root_Werks Feb 5 2024, 11:20 AM
Be interesting to get your take on a 3.2 vs. 3.6.
Thanks for sharing the journey with us!
Posted by: Steve Feb 5 2024, 11:55 AM
Be interesting to get your take on a 3.2 vs. 3.6.
Thanks for sharing the journey with us!
I'm also curious... My stock Euro 3.2 with Steve Wong chip and matching 1986 915 gear box was amazing. On the way back from Rennsport chasing GT3's i wound out each gear including 4th like their was no wind resistance. I backed off in 5th at a 135 because I didn't want to go to jail. I have stock height tires. The 3.2 is much simpler to install in a 914 because you can use six tin, etc. 3.6 is allot more work, but it has hydraulic lifters and some other enhancements over the 3.2.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 5 2024, 11:56 AM
Looking forward to seeing this progress as I am still a few weeks away from dropping my 3.2 to start down this same path. ![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: SirAndy Feb 5 2024, 01:02 PM
I mean, i'm happy for you, the 3.6L is a blast in a 914, but man have prices changed since i did my conversion.
Posted by: Steve Feb 5 2024, 01:14 PM
I mean, i'm happy for you, the 3.6L is a blast in a 914, but man have prices changed since i did my conversion.
3.2 motors are also nuts. $15k for a core and another $15k to overhaul it or maybe top end overhaul for $8k. So.. rebuilt 3.2's are worth $25-30 depending on work done to them.For more info on 3.6 conversion, check out Sir Andy's link in his signature. Lots of good information.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=44700
Posted by: NARP74 Feb 5 2024, 02:10 PM
Unfortunately these prices are the new norm. They are not going back.
Posted by: mepstein Feb 5 2024, 02:18 PM
Unfortunately these prices are the new norm. They are not going back.
Look at the prices of the cars. Carrera’s ( the whole car) used to sell in the teens. So when I bought my rebuilt 3.2 engine for $4,500, it was a reasonable price. Now the Carrera’s are $70-80k so a $25-30k rebuilt engine is right in line.
Posted by: Steve Feb 5 2024, 02:31 PM
Unfortunately these prices are the new norm. They are not going back.
Look at the prices of the cars. Carrera’s ( the whole car) used to sell in the teens. So when I bought my rebuilt 3.2 engine for $4,500, it was a reasonable price. Now the Carrera’s are $70-80k so a $25-30k rebuilt engine is right in line.
I paid $5200 for my Euro 3.2 back in 2000. 3.6 back then sold for $8-10.
Posted by: Root_Werks Feb 6 2024, 11:19 AM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
Posted by: mepstein Feb 6 2024, 12:26 PM
We go the opposite on our performance 3.6-4.0 builds. Switch to solid rockers and RS style cams.
This is a 993 converted to 3.8, RS cams, big valves, ect.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Steve Feb 6 2024, 01:47 PM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
Posted by: mepstein Feb 6 2024, 02:25 PM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
Posted by: Justinp71 Feb 6 2024, 11:40 PM
After 23 years of service out of my 3.2, I decided to buy a used 1995 3.6 from LA Dismantler with 110k miles on it. I paid $25k out of my 401k for this motor. Plus an additional $5k from PMS for conversion parts. When you turn 59.5 there is no penalty for dumping some of your 401k. Got this motor home and two of the cylinders had bad leak down from the exhaust valves. Lots of goofy issues with 3.6 motors. They have an electric smog pump which clogs the SAI passages in the exhaust valves. Sometimes you can turn the engine over with compressed air through the spark plug openings and use a rubber mallet on the exhaust valves to clear it out. This did not work for me, so I sent my motor out to get a top end overhaul, bigger valves and RS Cams.
LA Dismantler lessons learned:
-Get a warranty in writing
-Do a leak down at their location before buying the motor.
I did neither and they came up with a ton of excuses not to help me.
This is also true for any wrecking yard. My Euro 3.2 also came from a wrecking yard with no warranty, but that motor was flawless.
This will probably be a very slow progress thread. I still work full time and have a family. I bought this motor two years ago and finally pulled the 3.2 a couple of weeks ago. I sold the 3.2 to the guy that did the top end overhaul on my 3.6 for $15k. On the 3.2, two of the cylinders had poor leak down, due to weak rings. The motor ran great before I pulled it and all the spark plugs looked the same. So I was very surprised about the leak down results. Besides spending $4500 to PMS three years ago to reseal this engine, it has never been apart. This was due to the normal oil leaks around the cam chain housings and other areas. Who knows how many miles were on it. The guy who bought it said the rings are weak and to spray WD40 in the cylinders. Sure enough it brought the leak down, from 30% down to 3% on one cylinder and from 10% down to 5% on the other. He plans on doing a top end overhaul on it and flipping it or putting it in one of his 914's.
I will add pictures and more info as time goes on.
Old Euro 3.2 motor
Thanks for the wisdom, I thought several times about getting one of their motors, but someone years ago convinced me to rebuild mine which I am glad I did.
Will be following...
Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 7 2024, 06:51 AM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
When I did mine, I had the cams reground to 993SS spec. The 993SS cams used solid rockers. I also did the big valves to improve air flow.
When I bought the motor, it was 8 grand for what was definitely a core motor. I had to buy all of the intake and electronics separately off ebay.
And a 4.0L engine does not require a GT3 crank and ITBs. With the proper piston and cylinder set from LN Engineering, you can get 4L out of a 964 motor with the stock crank. You can use the stock intake, but you will leave some horsepower on the table vs ITBs.
Posted by: Steve Feb 7 2024, 09:31 AM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
When I did mine, I had the cams reground to 993SS spec. The 993SS cams used solid rockers. I also did the big valves to improve air flow.
When I bought the motor, it was 8 grand for what was definitely a core motor. I had to buy all of the intake and electronics separately off ebay.
And a 4.0L engine does not require a GT3 crank and ITBs. With the proper piston and cylinder set from LN Engineering, you can get 4L out of a 964 motor with the stock crank. You can use the stock intake, but you will leave some horsepower on the table vs ITBs.
Interesting read on 4.0 options and reliability issues on Rennlist. https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/685232-what-is-the-downside-of-doing-a-4-0-air-cooled-engine-3.html
Clay what piston and cylinders did you end up using?
Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 7 2024, 09:39 AM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
When I did mine, I had the cams reground to 993SS spec. The 993SS cams used solid rockers. I also did the big valves to improve air flow.
When I bought the motor, it was 8 grand for what was definitely a core motor. I had to buy all of the intake and electronics separately off ebay.
And a 4.0L engine does not require a GT3 crank and ITBs. With the proper piston and cylinder set from LN Engineering, you can get 4L out of a 964 motor with the stock crank. You can use the stock intake, but you will leave some horsepower on the table vs ITBs.
Interesting read on 4.0 options and reliability issues on Rennlist. https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/685232-what-is-the-downside-of-doing-a-4-0-air-cooled-engine-3.html
Clay what piston and cylinders did you end up using?
LN Engineering Cylinders, JE Coated Pistons, and Pauter rods.
The case had to be split, and the spigots bored to take the cylinders.
Clay
Posted by: Lucky9146 Feb 7 2024, 09:57 PM
Glad you are starting Steve, will be watching and rooting for you regularly. I know there are a lot of issues to address.
I have that 993 motor of mine in the corner looking for enthusiasm and your thread just could be it!
Thanks for posting this thread!
Posted by: Bucci Feb 7 2024, 10:52 PM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
When I did mine, I had the cams reground to 993SS spec. The 993SS cams used solid rockers. I also did the big valves to improve air flow.
When I bought the motor, it was 8 grand for what was definitely a core motor. I had to buy all of the intake and electronics separately off ebay.
And a 4.0L engine does not require a GT3 crank and ITBs. With the proper piston and cylinder set from LN Engineering, you can get 4L out of a 964 motor with the stock crank. You can use the stock intake, but you will leave some horsepower on the table vs ITBs.
Clay, I had to do a rebuild on my stock 3.2 probably 15 years ago. I was zipping down the 57 freeway at about 120 mph. I was driving the motor pretty hard as I normally would. I shifted from 4th to 5th gear on the down down grade, and the motor made a very odd clunk sound after my shift..! I turned off the motor and coasted it into the gas station at the Temple Avenue off ramp. I tried turning the motor over after that point, and it would not spin or even start.. I called a flatbed tow truck and took it back to the shop. I then started the motor again, and it made horrific, gnarly, grinding noise..
Turns out, I actually broke my crank, and the motor was still running, almost sawing through the crankshaft bearing right over a journal in the case.
I ended up rebuilding the motor with a brand new crank from Porsche and I installed 993 Evo/ SS cams, super high lift and very lumpy sounding at idle. At RPM it’s gobbling up the air and has a very high RPM pull or power band. At about 5000+ RPM it is actually pulling harder at the top end which is mind blowing. I would definitely use these cams again, super impressive for a stock injection, set up.
Posted by: eric9144 Feb 8 2024, 01:31 PM
Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 8 2024, 01:38 PM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
When I did mine, I had the cams reground to 993SS spec. The 993SS cams used solid rockers. I also did the big valves to improve air flow.
When I bought the motor, it was 8 grand for what was definitely a core motor. I had to buy all of the intake and electronics separately off ebay.
And a 4.0L engine does not require a GT3 crank and ITBs. With the proper piston and cylinder set from LN Engineering, you can get 4L out of a 964 motor with the stock crank. You can use the stock intake, but you will leave some horsepower on the table vs ITBs.
Clay, I had to do a rebuild on my stock 3.2 probably 15 years ago. I was zipping down the 57 freeway at about 120 mph. I was driving the motor pretty hard as I normally would. I shifted from 4th to 5th gear on the down down grade, and the motor made a very odd clunk sound after my shift..! I turned off the motor and coasted it into the gas station at the Temple Avenue off ramp. I tried turning the motor over after that point, and it would not spin or even start.. I called a flatbed tow truck and took it back to the shop. I then started the motor again, and it made horrific, gnarly, grinding noise..
Turns out, I actually broke my crank, and the motor was still running, almost sawing through the crankshaft bearing right over a journal in the case.
I ended up rebuilding the motor with a brand new crank from Porsche and I installed 993 Evo/ SS cams, super high lift and very lumpy sounding at idle. At RPM it’s gobbling up the air and has a very high RPM pull or power band. At about 5000+ RPM it is actually pulling harder at the top end which is mind blowing. I would definitely use these cams again, super impressive for a stock injection, set up.
As it is, my engine pulls like a MF from about 1500 RPM all the way to redline. And that was with the stock injection that won't deliver enough fuel.
So I am going to ITBs and MS3Pro injection on mine, so I should be able to coax more horsepower out of it. I am looking forward to it being back on the road. (Now that I am able to get out in the garage again).
Posted by: Steve Feb 8 2024, 04:14 PM
You totally lucked out getting one already done for way less than it would cost to build it yourself. This will hopefully be my last drive train upgrade to this car.
Posted by: kid914 Feb 8 2024, 04:25 PM
Posted by: eric9144 Feb 12 2024, 12:58 PM
You totally lucked out getting one already done for way less than it would cost to build it yourself. This will hopefully be my last drive train upgrade to this car.
100%
Also FWIW, what @mepstein describes is exactly the 'recipe' they did on my engine
We go the opposite on our performance 3.6-4.0 builds. Switch to solid rockers and RS style cams.
This is a 993 converted to 3.8, RS cams, big valves, ect.
And since every thread is worthless without pictures
Posted by: Steve Mar 17 2024, 06:43 PM
I trimmed the MB911 tin to fit my 3.6 and cut pieces off the 3.6 tin to fill the gaps. Note the indentation for the 12 plug distributer from the stock tin. Next steps is to either weld the pieces together or use rivets. I cut the top off the rear 3.6 tin but I will need to get the motor off the engine stand to make it all fit.
Next steps:
-Wire up alternator
-Put Fuel Injection back on
-Install Clutch
-Take motor off of engine stand and put on hydraulic table, so I can install the rear tin and mate the 916 gear box.
-Clean up engine compartment and install 3.6 wiring harness, ECU, etc.
-Install drive train. 
Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 18 2024, 06:27 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Hi Steve,
Very glad to see you moving forward and ahead of me. Kind of gives us a road map. I hope to pick up my car from Chris' Red Barn the last week of March. Seriously looking forward to getting started on engine stuff.
Posted by: Steve Mar 18 2024, 08:45 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Hi Steve,
Very glad to see you moving forward and ahead of me. Kind of gives us a road map. I hope to pick up my car from Chris' Red Barn the last week of March. Seriously looking forward to getting started on engine stuff.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Michael, I'm surprised you don't let the red barn cut and paste/weld the tin together. To do it right I envision welding the MB911 tin to the 993 tin in the front and back. Using plug welds, seam welds and scab plates. My welding skills are crap, but you can't really see the tin once the motor is in the car. I will also send it out and get the Frankenstein mess powder coated when done.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 18 2024, 09:07 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 Hi Steve - I have a set of the 993 tins and a new set of Ben's 914-6 tins. We will fit them and weld as needed- do some light bodywork then powder coat satin black. Should look good.
Posted by: Steve Mar 18 2024, 09:30 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 Hi Steve - I have a set of the 993 tins and a new set of Ben's 914-6 tins. We will fit them and weld as needed- do some light bodywork then powder coat satin black. Should look good.
Facing the motor, I should of cut more out of the 993 tin on the right side, to cover some of the MB911 holes and slots. Old Saying... Measure twice, cut once!!
Same thing with the rear... I should of left the 993 tin one piece and just cut off the top. Then cut off enough of the bottom of the MB911 tin to match the 993 tin, then make it two pieces.
I also plan on cutting the front piece of the tin in half, so I can easily remove it when removing or installing the engine. With the front tin in place, its hard to get to the Rich Johnson mount top bolts and his mount hangs up on the front tin. I don't know if the stock six mount has this problem.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 18 2024, 09:34 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Good to know- we shall see how it works out- soon I hope.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 20 2024, 02:18 PM
I did the same thing when installing my 4.0 motor. I had to alter the aftermark 914-6 tin and graft in the 3.6 specific items. And I had to fabricate the filler for the left rear where a 914-6 has the oil cooler.
Posted by: Steve Mar 26 2024, 10:48 AM
One week at a time. I can’t get to the rear tin with motor on engine stand, so I decided to put motor back together first and then put it on hydraulic table.
One problem at a time. The bottom studs for the motor mount were too short, so I replaced them with bolts like the top. I ended up with Top Right 10x35x1.5. Top left 10x70x1.5 and the bottom 10x55x1.5 and torqued all four to 30 ft-lbs.
The motor mount is a Rich Johnson mount that Otto's installed 25 years ago. I used it on a 2.7 for a couple of years and then on my 3.2 for the last 20+ years.
I used evaporust to clean and remove rust on the hardware. It made some of the hardware look oxidized. I ended up going to ace hardware and replacing all the shroud sheet metal screws. Not factory, but they look great. Factory has the washers permanently on the bolts for a ton more money.
Next is finish up mounting and wiring the alternator and then onto distributor and spark plug wiring and then onto the injection.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 27 2024, 08:39 AM
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 27 2024, 03:21 PM
The motor mount is a Rich Johnson mount that Otto's installed 25 years ago. I used it on a 2.7 for a couple of years and then on my 3.2 for the last 20+ years.
Is it the same engine side mount? I thought the mount spacing on the 3.6 engine was different from the 3.2 and older?
The reason I asked is I bought that half from Rich Johnson for my conversion car. And I had to shorten it to get the transmission mounts to line up.
We removed 1.25 inches from the U shaped plate between the engine and the arm for the mounts. That got the transmission mounts to line up.
Posted by: Steve Mar 27 2024, 04:00 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?
Posted by: SirAndy Mar 27 2024, 05:06 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?
No issues with the RJ mount on my car with the 3.6L and a stock 901.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 28 2024, 02:18 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?
I doubt it was the boxster trans. I built a jig that went on the 901 trans bell housing and connected to the trans mounts at the tail cone. Then I bolted the jig to the adapter plate and made the trans mount from it.
The mount was visibily different from the mount I had on the 2.4L engine. But I guess it was only the extra space for the bigger pulley.
Clay
Posted by: Steve Mar 28 2024, 08:10 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?
I doubt it was the boxster trans. I built a jig that went on the 901 trans bell housing and connected to the trans mounts at the tail cone. Then I bolted the jig to the adapter plate and made the trans mount from it.
The mount was visibily different from the mount I had on the 2.4L engine. But I guess it was only the extra space for the bigger pulley.
Clay
Rich modded factory motor mounts and you could order it with the AC mount to support the dual pulley for the compressor. I was going to go that route for AC until electric AC compressors became available. Even PMS is now installing electric AC in there 3.6 conversions. https://www.instagram.com/p/C451BwZJjiL/?img_index=1
Posted by: Steve Mar 28 2024, 09:46 AM
I trimmed the MB911 tin to fit my 3.6 and cut pieces off the 3.6 tin to fill the gaps. Note the indentation for the 12 plug distributer from the stock tin. Next steps is to either weld the pieces together or use rivets. I cut the top off the rear 3.6 tin but I will need to get the motor off the engine stand to make it all fit. I will be semi copying prs914-6 bottom pictures below, but I know it will not look as nice as his. The tin is pretty buried in the engine compartment so no big deal.
Next steps:
-Wire up alternator
-Put Fuel Injection back on
-Install Clutch
-Take motor off of engine stand and put on hydraulic table, so I can install the rear tin and mate the 916 gear box.
-Clean up engine compartment and install 3.6 wiring harness, ECU, etc.
-Install drive train.
Posted by: r_towle Mar 28 2024, 08:55 PM
Amazing creativity and comradery here on the 914world site.
I was hoping for the same with my 997, but nope.
You guys are inspiring me to get back to work on my 914 projects again.
Keep at it!
Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 29 2024, 08:33 AM
This is the absolute best car site ever. I have had many 911's and no site (for them) comes close. My Six would not even exist without this site for parts, resources and encouragement. I can't imagine ever selling my car.
Posted by: Steve Mar 29 2024, 08:57 AM
This is the absolute best car site ever. I have had many 911's and no site (for them) comes close. My Six would not even exist without this site for parts, resources and encouragement. I can't imagine ever selling my car.
I also think its because most of us work on our cars and or restore them. If you can afford a 911 you can usually afford to take it to a shop. A lot of the water cooled Porsche enthusiasts i run into are concourse weenies and sit around and talk about new Porsche's and all the various options available on them. I hang around them at cars & coffee. Really nice people, but I don't have much in common with them. It's also the OC! They drive a different Porsche to Cars & Coffee every Saturday.
I appreciate the feedback on my threads. I don't care if it gets off track. The goal is to learn from each other and our mistakes.
Posted by: Steve Apr 1 2024, 09:32 AM
Slowly but surely. Wired up Alternator and mounted fan, housing, etc. Also connected up the spark plugs and coils with PMS mount. Next steps fuel injection and wiring harness. So dumb.. I should have labeled all of the plugs, but I did take lots of pictures and I have the factory manuals and parts diagrams.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 1 2024, 11:23 AM
That looks nice Steve.
Posted by: SirAndy Apr 1 2024, 11:38 AM
Pro tip, if you mount the coils upside down on that mount, the center plug wires aren't such a tight fit.
Posted by: Steve Apr 1 2024, 01:27 PM
Pro tip, if you mount the coils upside down on that mount, the center plug wires aren't such a tight fit.
Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 !!
I will flip it tonight. I was just following the pictures on the PMS Web Site. They do reach, but they are tight. Probably not good on the wires with motor vibrations.
Posted by: burton73 Apr 1 2024, 02:15 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822
I just sent you a PM
Best Bob B
Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 1 2024, 02:21 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 - Note to self. 
Posted by: Steve Apr 22 2024, 12:17 PM
Not much progress. Caught Covid, dog ate my homework, etc.
I did get the injectors installed on one side and then I noticed cracks in the plastic intake manifolds. I ordered six more. I had the injectors cleaned and tested. I also somehow lost or misplaced the 9 pressure plate bolts and some of the intake screws, so I also had to order that stuff. Little by little..
Posted by: mepstein Apr 22 2024, 12:33 PM
They always crack. Luckily they are pretty cheap.
Posted by: Steve Apr 22 2024, 01:02 PM
Something else I read on Pelican. If the 3.6 came out of a Tiptronic car, you have to cut a wire on the ECU to tell it to run in Manual mode.
Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 23 2024, 09:58 AM
Nice detail. Seems like there are several hot rods in progress at the same time here.
Posted by: Steve May 4 2024, 05:57 PM
Plumbed the idle control valve into the new PMS 3.2 elbow. Blocked off extra vacuum lines. Added the distributor breather to Mickey Mouse heat exchanger ears. Also added another fitting for the charcoal canister. Next steps is the tin. This thing is a pain compared to installing a 3.2, but I know it will be worth it in the end.
Posted by: Cairo94507 May 5 2024, 06:55 AM
Looking good Steve; I appreciate the photos to keep us headed in the right direction with mine.
Posted by: Steve May 5 2024, 07:48 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 did you have to cut the rib on the intake manifold to point the throttle body straight back like prs9146 to clear the engine lid?
Posted by: Cairo94507 May 5 2024, 08:49 AM
Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2024, 10:28 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 did you have to cut the rib on the intake manifold to point the throttle body straight back like prs9146 to clear the engine lid?
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822
Yes, i did. I removed the bridge so you can rotate the two pieces independently.
Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2024, 10:35 AM
You can sort of see where it all ended up here:
Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2024, 10:37 AM
And this shows you where my air filter ends up:
Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2024, 10:40 AM
I think that short 90 degree bend piece between the throttle body and the air flow sensor is from a 3.2L.
Anyways, it's a tight fit but i didn't have to cut any sheet metal for all that to fit, the air filter tucks into the area under of the engine bay that's under the rear trunk lid, meaning it's protected from rain even when running an open GT engine lid.
Oh, and yes, that's a Gatorade bottle posing as a overflow catch can.
Posted by: Steve May 5 2024, 11:39 AM
Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 !! Time to take it back apart. Not that much work. Glad it’s still out of the car. PMS sells the reproduction shorter 3.2 elbow.
Thanks again for the help!!
https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/engine/products/eng914993ibkpmp
Time for a cinco de mayo corona light and continue on my 3.6 quest.
Posted by: Cairo94507 May 5 2024, 02:21 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Thanks to you both; your pictures and insights are very helpful.
Cheers,
Michael 
Posted by: Steve May 5 2024, 03:38 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 looks like you added another 45 degree elbow to the 3.2 elbow.
This allowed you to point the 3.2 elbow more down, so you could run the idle control valve hose on top.
I found this PMS picture with the 3.2 elbow flipped, so the idle control valve hose is underneath. I think this picture is the big Laguna motor.
Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2024, 05:11 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 looks like you added another 45 degree elbow to the 3.2 elbow.
This allowed you to point the 3.2 elbow more down, so you could run the idle control valve hose on top.
I found this PMS picture with the 3.2 elbow flipped, so the idle control valve hose is underneath. I think this picture is the big Laguna motor.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822
Ah yes, you are correct.
The second elbow is a Mustang part, must have been from a pre 2006-ish model since that's when i did the conversion.
Posted by: Steve May 5 2024, 05:44 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 looks like you added another 45 degree elbow to the 3.2 elbow.
This allowed you to point the 3.2 elbow more down, so you could run the idle control valve hose on top.
I found this PMS picture with the 3.2 elbow flipped, so the idle control valve hose is underneath. I think this picture is the big Laguna motor.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822
Ah yes, you are correct.
The second elbow is a Mustang part, must have been from a pre 2006-ish model since that's when i did the conversion.
Awesome! Thanks!! This is the easy part. I will figure this out with the engine in the car. I will most likely run the hose underneath.
Posted by: ClayPerrine May 5 2024, 07:36 PM
I did the same thing. I cut the two tubes apart so I could lower the throttle body.
Mine being a 964 motor, I was able to extend it so the air flow meter was mounted on the vehicle right of the intake and the air filter just cleared the firewall.
Posted by: Steve May 5 2024, 10:06 PM
I did the same thing. I cut the two tubes apart so I could lower the throttle body.
Mine being a 964 motor, I was able to extend it so the air flow meter was mounted on the vehicle right of the intake and the air filter just cleared the firewall.
Thanks Clay!
I forgot yours is a 964 motor. Didn't know the tubes were similar. It was pretty easy to cut them with a dremel tool and tin snips.Posted by: Steve May 6 2024, 08:45 PM
Idle control valve connected from the bottom of the PMS 3.2 boot.
Posted by: Steve Jun 3 2024, 01:45 PM
While I am waiting for my tin to come back from powder coating, I thought I would tackle the wiring. Pretty straight forward. When I installed my first six back in 86, I dumped the relay board, bought a 14 pin connector and made my own adapter. I moved the pins around in the 14 pin connector to match up with the 3.2. The 3.6 is a little different, but no big deal to move the pins around again. Hear is a picture of the mess and my adapter notes. Tons of left over sensors and power plugs.
Posted by: East coaster Jun 3 2024, 05:02 PM
I remember doing this on my 3.6, it’s really not too bad.
Posted by: Steve Aug 23 2024, 10:41 AM
Hard to find time for this project, but getting closer. Tin done, wiring done, engine compartment redone. Next step install drivetrain. Hopefully this weekend.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 23 2024, 11:10 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 Very exciting; looking forward to seeing that beauty in your car.
Posted by: Lucky9146 Aug 23 2024, 09:34 PM
So glad to hear it is moving forward! Rooting for you! Long time in the works, got to feel good at this point!
Posted by: Steve Aug 25 2024, 07:57 AM
Hard to find time for this project, but getting closer. Tin done, wiring done, engine compartment redone. Next step install drivetrain. Hopefully this weekend!
That wire mess behind the seat is the Patrick Motorsports wiring harness adapter.
I made my own for the 3.2, but the 3.6 is a mess. All that crap to just four wires to the 914. Battery, ignition key positive, tachometer and fuel pump. Worth every penny to not have to figure it out.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 25 2024, 01:10 PM
I agree; but the PMS harness is not inexpensive.
Posted by: Steve Aug 29 2024, 08:01 AM
It’s always something..
I had to separate the 915 trans to make the 3.2 sensor hole bigger. I removed quite a bit and you can see it’s still a tight fit. I also drilled out the bottom hole of the sensor hole with a 1/4” drill bit to get the flywheel clearance closer to .8mm. The Martin Bott kit also has a different backup light switch, so had to swap that out. The starter wire is also a spade connector. On another note, verify your gauges match the 3.6 senders or you will need to change the gauge senders. I verified my 3.2 gauges use the same senders as the 3.6, so I am good to go. See picture below of my combo gauge.. ah well. all done and ready to go in the car this weekend. 
Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 29 2024, 09:53 AM
Damn, I wish I was down in LA to lend a hand. Quite the milestone to get the engine/transaxle in the car. It looks like you have everything else sorted regarding wiring, fuel, exhaust, throttle linkage (I used the PMS throttle cable and it worked nicely).
Posted by: Steve Aug 29 2024, 10:37 AM
Damn, I wish I was down in LA to lend a hand. Quite the milestone to get the engine/transaxle in the car. It looks like you have everything else sorted regarding wiring, fuel, exhaust, throttle linkage (I used the PMS throttle cable and it worked nicely).
Thanks Michael!! Having three daughters, I have their boy friends to help out! I also plan on using the PMS throttle cable. I read an article on how to convert a 3.6 to the coat hanger / 914-6 setup. Future project, but if the PMS cable works out, I won't bother with it. Although PMS parts are expensive. I would rather stay stock if I can.
Posted by: Steve Sep 13 2024, 10:59 AM
Getting close. Drive train in car. Oil line leaking from bottom of tank. Going to replace fitting that's easier to tighten. The rest is just bolting on the axles, shift linkage, cables and exhaust. Slowly, but surely. I did have to cut clearance a couple of things rubbing on trunk and oil line rubbing on tin, but no big deal. I will add more pictures as I go.
Had to cut right above the sensors to not hit trunk. Not my picture, but same outcome.
Current oil line
New line, not my picture but similar. I also have the same crows foot that I need to grind down to fit. 
Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 14 2024, 06:58 AM
Posted by: Steve Sep 16 2024, 10:25 AM
Welds too thick on the MSDS 1 3/4” headers. PIA, but have to grind down every weld, just to clear a standard nut or barrrel nut.
Also after cutting rib on intake manifold and repositioning throttle body, now the throttle cable is too long. Might also have to modify bracket on motor.
If it’s not one thing it’s several others…
Posted by: Steve Sep 20 2024, 01:51 PM
Here’s my Home Depot Motorsports solution to take up the extra cable slack for the accelerator cable.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 20 2024, 02:40 PM
Nice 
Posted by: Steve Sep 23 2024, 06:40 AM
Finally semi got the car together, but it won’t start. No fuel pump or ignition. Tried another DME relay, no change. Next steps, on to troubleshooting. Also have other issues. Oil dripping from AN16 fittings on bottom of oil tank and my muffler hanger won’t work with these headers. Had to order stock 2.0 hanger. Also still not getting full throttle. One day at a time… tried using the CEL to troubleshoot. Decoding a flashing light is like Morse code.
Posted by: Steve Oct 1 2024, 02:11 PM
Muffler hanger fixed and I am now getting full throttle. Motor turns over but still doesn’t start. DME relay and speed sensor test out fine. Bought a DVM oscilloscope from Amazon to troubleshoot the speed sensor. I love toys! I also bought a Durametric OBD1 reader. The OBD1 reader shows up tomorrow.
Here is a picture of the speed sensor sine wave on my dvm oscilloscope. 
Posted by: ClayPerrine Oct 1 2024, 02:46 PM
Finally semi got the car together, but it won’t start. No fuel pump or ignition.
I had the exact same issue. Check the wiring on the crank sensor. Make sure the wires are not crossed. The DME won't turn on the fuel pump or ignition if it doesn't see a crank sensor signal.
And Porsche superseded all the crank sensors to one. They put a kit together with all the proper electrical connectors to replace it, but it is easy to mix up the wires.
Posted by: Steve Oct 1 2024, 03:43 PM
Finally semi got the car together, but it won’t start. No fuel pump or ignition.
I had the exact same issue. Check the wiring on the crank sensor. Make sure the wires are not crossed. The DME won't turn on the fuel pump or ignition if it doesn't see a crank sensor signal.
And Porsche superseded all the crank sensors to one. They put a kit together with all the proper electrical connectors to replace it, but it is easy to mix up the wires.
Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 mine is all stock harness, sensor and connectors. I did buy a new sensor with the new connector and the wiring kit, but is their any reason to change it if I am getting 5 VAC at the ECU and the correct wave form on the oscilloscope? The connector kit for the new sensor is coming in today. I could swap it for the hell of it and see what happens.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 1 2024, 04:02 PM
I would swap it for the hell of it and see if that solves the problem. You are so close to getting it fired.
Posted by: Steve Oct 1 2024, 07:44 PM
I would swap it for the hell of it and see if that solves the problem. You are so close to getting it fired.
Parts are showing up Monday to make an adapter cable, but I will be on vacation for a couple of weeks. I will eventually get it running. No hurry.
Posted by: Steve Oct 28 2024, 09:14 AM
Still won't start, but I am learning a lot about this fuel injection.
Replaced the Speed Sensor, still won't start. Still no ground from ECU to actuate the Fuel pump side of the DME relay. I can manually connect pin 36 from the ECU to ground to actuate the DME Relay, I then connected pin 3 from the ECU to ground to actuate the fuel pump side of the DME Relay. I also put pig tails on the new speed sensor so I could switch the wires around. I still get the correct sine wave and +5VAC at the ECU.
At this point, I called up the ECU doctor in Florida to test out my ECU. They also do repairs if they find anything wrong. They should get the ECU some time this week.
Also called up James at PMS and dug up some more info on the Web for things to check out / verify:
1. Does the first stage of the DME relay turn on when you turn the switch to ON
Yes!
2. Do you see the +12V with the ignition in ON at both screw terminals of the coils
Did not test this yet. I will wait until I get the ECU back
3. Does the second stage of the DME relay switch on when you crank?
No! This is usually caused by the speed sensor....
4. Continuous keyed 12vdc to PMS Harness, not accessories / relay / cigarette lighter. Must have power supplied to DME while starting.
Yes, verified I get continuous ignition +12v while starting.
5. ECU ground through cable
No. I will add this, but the ECU is bolted to the firewall. Verified I am getting a good ground from the cover to the chassis. Plus, the ground for the ignition side of the DME relay is working fine through the ECU. My 3.2 ECU was also bolted to the firewall with no issues.
6. Verify fuel pressure and hoses (return versus pressure)
Duh.. I did have these reversed. Easy fix. I also bought a harbor freight fuel pump / injection pressure gauge. Only $40.00 with no coupon. Screwed right onto fuel rail with no adapters. I am getting around 55 PSI from my 044 fuel pump.
7. Serial # on harness, could be a bad harness. There was a recall for this. Early 993 harnesses were known to short out, catch fire, etc.
Verified I have the new replacement harness.
8. Verify voltage is the same at the battery as the ECU, DME Relay and Ignition
Done! No issues
9. Does the resonance flap actuator click when you turn the ignition to ON?
Still need to check this one. I will wait until I get the ECU back.
10. Also verified by part number that I have an early ECU which has no drive block, even though my Steve Wong chip should have it disabled anyway.
On another note.. I am not content with the PMS cable. Yes it works, but I had to remove the stop under the pedal and add the Home Depot spacer at the firewall to get it to work. I would love to get the same pedal range I had before with the 3.2 bell crank and 914-6 throttle cable. Instant G https://www.instant-g.com/products/36-conversions/kit-contents-and-options/ sells a special extended bell crank on the trans that connects to the stock 914-6 throttle cable. It then uses a special cable from the bell crank to the motor. I ordered the kit. I will try it out after I get the engine running. Note that Paul (Excellence 3.6 914 article) raised the ball on the pedal actuator that the cable connects to get the correct range back. He cut it off, raised it and welded it back on.. The modified bell crank should be a bolt on solution.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 28 2024, 09:38 AM
Man, I know what you are going through and I hope when they get your ECU they tell you they found the problem and corrected it. Good luck buddy.
Posted by: Jgilliam914 Nov 1 2024, 09:53 AM
Steve!!! Geez maybe I should be more active here these past few months! Everything you are dealing with now is exactly what I am dealing with. Getting the engine in the car was the easy part. Trying to figure out the wiring has been a big freaking headache.
Our projects mirror each other except the you going into the top end. I bought the engine from LA Dismantlers with 38k miles in 2015 and paid a fraction of what they go for these days. I wouldn't be able to afford this now.
Unfortunately I am headed to Florida for the winter while the project will have to wait till May 2025 to get it going. I will follow your progress closely in hopes your issues get resolved quickly and it gets me closer next spring ! best of luck to you
Posted by: Steve Nov 11 2024, 04:02 PM
Finally running!! Love the RS cams at idle. Very slight lobe, but sounds cool!!
Lots of dumb stuff.. All problems self induced. Fuel lines reversed, distributor wires reversed and finally the distributor was 180 off. None of the parts were bad.
I wasted way too much time troubleshooting the DME relay and it wasn't the problem. I started going through that troubleshooting list, starting with the fuel pressure. Bought a cheap Harbor Freight Fuel Injection pressure tester. I was surprised it connected right up with no adapters. No pressure and sure enough the fuel lines were reversed. Easy fix to swap them at the firewall. Still wouldn't start. Moved onto the ignition. No spark... Noticed in the manual that the ECU talks to a specific coil first. Sure enough the coil wires to the distributors were reversed. It still wouldn't start, but it occasionally fired. Then the intake manifold blew apart at the rubber boots. Googled 993 intake manifold blowing apart and the result was broken distributor belt. I pulled the distributor caps off and verified the belt was good. That made me realize maybe the timing is off. Both distributors pointed to the #1 spark plug and the pulley red mark lined up with the block, but maybe its 180 off. I rotated the pulley until the TDC red mark was at the top again and noticed the distributor rotor was 180 off. Pulled the distributor and put the rotor back at the #1 spark plug. Motor started right up after that.
Live and learn. Glad its finally running!! It's only been 10 months since I got the short block back.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Nov 11 2024, 04:33 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Congratulations man; I bet those RS cams do sound nasty. So glad you got her fired up; have you been able to drive her down the street yet?
Posted by: Steve Nov 11 2024, 05:10 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Congratulations man; I bet those RS cams do sound nasty. So glad you got her fired up; have you been able to drive her down the street yet?
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712
Thanks!! I haven’t driven it yet. I need to put some stuff back before I take it out.
I also have to drive it nice until I break the motor in.
Posted by: Montreal914 Nov 11 2024, 05:29 PM
Congratulations!!
Posted by: TMM914 Nov 12 2024, 07:36 AM
Congrats……..914 stuff…the lows are very low.. but the highs are never higher!
Posted by: Steve Nov 12 2024, 08:45 AM
Congrats……..914 stuff…the lows are very low.. but the highs are never higher!
Thanks!! Yes, it was very frustrating... wasted too much time troubleshooting the DME relay and it wasn't the problem. Yesterday was the final straw. If I couldn't fix it I was going to tow it 6 hours to Patrick Motorsports. Hard to find a shop in So Cal that will work on 914's let alone a broken project car.
Posted by: 76-914 Nov 12 2024, 05:20 PM
Congrats Steve. That thing should be quick now!
Posted by: Steve Nov 12 2024, 06:41 PM
Congrats Steve. That thing should be quick now!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9964 Thanks!! I have to keep up with those Subaru conversions!!
Posted by: Steve Nov 14 2024, 05:07 PM
First drive today. Motor seems smoother than the 3.2. My 3.2 had good leak down, but it did have high mileage. I did change the blue Wevo motor mounts to the softer black ones. The fan is definitely quieter than the 3.2 fan.
Since it has a top end overhaul with new rings and rod bearings, I need to baby it for a couple thousand miles. I will report back after it is broken in.
Posted by: Root_Werks Nov 14 2024, 06:00 PM
Nice! Always a good feeling getting an update like this done.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Nov 14 2024, 06:21 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Yay! I love that you are now driving it. I bet that baby sounds nice with those killer cams. I sure hope we get a chance to get together one of these days soon with our cars and compare notes. Cheers. Michael
Posted by: gonzo54 Nov 14 2024, 06:43 PM
First drive today. Motor seems smoother than the 3.2. My 3.2 had good leak down, but it did have high mileage. I did change the blue Wevo motor mounts to the softer black ones. The fan is definitely quieter than the 3.2 fan.
Since it has a top end overhaul with new rings and rod bearings, I need to baby it for a couple thousand miles. I will report back after it is broken in.
Steve, that's great news! Looking forward to seeing and hearing those RS cams. Hope you have it broken in for the Post Turkey Canyon Carving in SoCal 11/30
Posted by: Steve Nov 14 2024, 08:10 PM
First drive today. Motor seems smoother than the 3.2. My 3.2 had good leak down, but it did have high mileage. I did change the blue Wevo motor mounts to the softer black ones. The fan is definitely quieter than the 3.2 fan.
Since it has a top end overhaul with new rings and rod bearings, I need to baby it for a couple thousand miles. I will report back after it is broken in.
Steve, that's great news! Looking forward to seeing and hearing those RS cams. Hope you have it broken in for the Post Turkey Canyon Carving in SoCal 11/30
I’m visiting relatives that weekend in Northern California. It will be a slow process…
Posted by: eric9144 Nov 14 2024, 09:41 PM
Awesome news!! The RS cams definitely sound lumpy at idle, I'm curious what your thoughts are going to be once you get some miles on it and are able to open it up a bit. the 3.6's seem quite a bit different than the 3.2 in many ways--So cool that it's up and running now!
Posted by: Jgilliam914 Nov 16 2024, 06:28 PM
Congratulations!! I kind of figure I am the same boat as you. Your troubleshooting gives me something to go off of once I am back in the shop working on it.I will have some time around Christmas
Posted by: Steve Nov 16 2024, 08:39 PM
Congratulations!! I kind of figure I am the same boat as you. Your troubleshooting gives me something to go off of once I am back in the shop working on it.I will have some time around Christmas
Thanks!! I was hoping to create a thread to help others with the help from others in my thread. My 3.2 didn’t start the first time too. I pinched a fuel line under the tank with that one. I had more dumb mistakes with this one, but I worked through them.
This project was worth it for me. I got $15k for the used 3.2 and have about $35k in the 3.6 including the top end overhaul and RS Cams. It would have cost $15k to overhaul the 3.2, so it’s roughly $5k more.
The quieter fan, twin plug, knock sensors, higher compression, bigger displacement, hydraulic lifters (no valve adjustments), mass air flow meter versus barn door on the 3.2., were some of the reasons that make the upgrade worthwhile. To get this out of a 3.2 would of been more expensive and I still would of had the noisier fan and chains.
This engine runs smoother and quieter than the 3.2.
Posted by: Lucky9146 Nov 17 2024, 10:09 PM
First drive today. Motor seems smoother than the 3.2. My 3.2 had good leak down, but it did have high mileage. I did change the blue Wevo motor mounts to the softer black ones. The fan is definitely quieter than the 3.2 fan.
Since it has a top end overhaul with new rings and rod bearings, I need to baby it for a couple thousand miles. I will report back after it is broken in.
Steve
Glad to hear you got to the finish line, super happy for you!!
You are going to love it! Big Congratulations my friend
Posted by: rick 918-S Nov 18 2024, 06:45 AM
Wow! Very nice build.
Posted by: Steve Nov 18 2024, 08:56 AM
Wow! Very nice build.
Thanks Rick!! I used to live in AZ and drool over the 3.6 builds at Patrick Motor sports. I had to do it in stages. The 915/916 trans was an expensive project in itself, but it sure is nice with the 3.6. More power through all the gears and so far the stock gears seem fine. The 915 gear box is a 1986 trans with the 108mm flanges.
Posted by: Steve Nov 18 2024, 02:25 PM
Something else I read on Pelican. If the 3.6 came out of a Tiptronic car, you have to cut a wire on the ECU to tell it to run in Manual mode.
I was curious what happens if you leave this wire connected. After my motor warmed up, the idle would hunt between 2k-4k rpms. I limped home and disconnected it.
Posted by: Steve Jan 21 2025, 12:20 PM
I couldn’t stop the constant drip from this 30mm to AN16 tank adapter, so I spent a day to remove it. PIA.. I’m going to replace it with a stock oil line, so I can tighten it. I could not get a crows foot or other tools over the AN16 fitting.
According to the 993 owners manual, break in is 600 miles. I finally have 600 miles on the top end overhaul, so the perfect time to fix the oil line, install larger oil cooler and change the oil and filters.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 22 2025, 07:52 AM
Hi Steve - Looking forward to hearing about that engine's performance after you get those items checked off your list. My car is down for about 4-5 weeks waiting for my gauges to come back from John. Cheers, Michael
Posted by: Steve Feb 7 2025, 11:58 AM
I replaced the kludgy M30 to AN16 oil tank adapter with stock 914-6 oil line. What a difference. Should have done this years ago. This fixed the oil leak issue and now it’s easy to tighten it under the tank.
Curious what engine oil are you running in your 3.6? From the factory they came with Mobil One 15w50. I ran this with my previous 1996 993 and it ran great. Quiet lifters, ran cool, etc. I am currently running this with my 1995 3.6 motor, but some people no longer recommend Mobil One. PCA is recommending Driven or Motul 15w-50. Nice to be able to get Mobil One from my local FLAPS or Walmwart. Is it worth it to special order the other stuff? Porsche also recommends their 10W-60 Oil. Super expensive.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 7 2025, 01:07 PM
I replaced the kludgy M30 to AN16 trank adapter with stock 914-6 oil line. What a difference. Should of done this years ago. This fixed the oil leak issue and now its easy to tighten it under the tank.
Curious what engine oil are you running in your 3.6? From the factory they came with Mobil One 15w50. I ran this with my previous 1996 993 and it ran great. Quiet lifters, ran cool, etc. I am currently running this with my 1995 3.6 motor, but some people no longer recommend Mobil One. PCA is recommending Driven or Motul 15w-50. Nice to be able to get Mobil One from my local FLAPS or Walmwart. Is it worth it to special order the other stuff? Porsche also recommends their 10W-60 Oil. Super expensive.
In the 4.0L engine I run Valvoline 20w50. It seems to work great. I started off with Valvoline straight 50 weight, but when it got cold, that oil popped the oil cooler on the scavenge side, so I changed to the 20W50.
Posted by: Root_Werks Feb 7 2025, 01:22 PM
I know I'm nut running a 3.6, but my 2.7 has 993 cam caps with 964 cams and hydro lifters. I use Castrol Euro 5W-40W non-synthetic. Even if the engine sits for a month, the lifters don't clatter. More than a month, might clatter for a second or two.
Posted by: technicalninja Feb 7 2025, 01:41 PM
The only real difference between Euro and non-Euro M1 is the level of ZDDP.
The Euro stuff has almost double!
It's very close to what the "old" oil had.
The ONLY reason it was produced was for the factory service interval that some BMWs ran.
BMW got sued over denying factory warranty if you did your service work outside of the dealership; big one, class action...
The courts stated the only way they could enforce that was to INCLUDE all of the required maintenance in the purchase price.
They did exactly that...
The warranty was 50K
The oil change interval went from 7500 to 17,000 miles
If you "do the math" the third oil change happens at 51K.
To enforce "don't take it anywhere else" cost BMW just two oil changes and set the engine up for earlier failure.
It required the original amount of ZDDP to hit 17K.
This was an accountant/lawyer type of decision.
I bet the engineers were "second fiddle".
I believe in the Euro formulations of M1.
You can ALSO add ZDDP to normal oil.
I buy my ZDDP from a camshaft manufacture, Lunati.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if the $$$ oil was high ZDDP.
Posted by: siverson Feb 12 2025, 06:21 PM
Nice! Looking good!
Posted by: Steve Mar 17 2025, 09:56 AM
Goofy issues with 3.6 compared to 3.2
1. On startup after sitting for a week or two, weird rattle on startup. Went away after a couple seconds. Hydraulic lifters? Only happened once so far.
2. On startup, I turn the key quick and let go. Patrick Motorsports 3.6 to 915 flywheel is super light and on a cold or hot motor it revs up to around 4k and drops back to correct idle. It also causes the motor to die on quick deceleration. The steve wong chip fixes the motor dieing issues. Curious if a stock 915 iron? pressure plate versus aluminum pressure plate would help. I will check with PMS if or when the clutch dies.
3. Love my M&K muffler, but its kind of loud for my neighborhood and when this motor hits 6500 or higher, the muffler sounds like its going to rattle apart. I got a good deal on a GT3 Dansk dual out muffler. Much quieter and doesn't rattle at red line. Still sounds great, just not as loud. Since the pipes are out the back versus the sides, the chrome tips were hitting the driveway. I ordered smaller chrome tips and moved the muffler closer to the trans with 1" spacers versus 1.5" spacers. 1" is the shorted I can go. The muffler is riding on the reverse switch coming out the rear of the 916 trans.
4. PMS Throttle cable sticks every now and then but not bad. I bought an after market kit that uses the bell crank on the trans with a stock 914-6 throttle cable and special shorter cable that goes between the bell crank and the motor. (future project).
The 3.2 throttle cable feel was a nice heavier feel and about the same as the previous webers on the 2.7. The 3.6 is a super light pedal, that I had to get used to. I also had to remove the accelerator pedal stop to get full throttle with the PMS 3.6 throttle cable.
Next steps... Get my electric AC working again.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 17 2025, 03:46 PM
Hi Steve - Yeah, I have a lightened flywheel in mine with the Wong chip so it does not die when you come off the gas. When the engine starts it does rev to about 3K for a split second and then drop to about 1200 for about 15-20 seconds and then it drops to normal idle, around 850.
I had my car parked for about 3 months while I was occupied with a bunch of other stuff and I wondered when I started it if I would hear the lifters until they filled; nope. I was surprised. Just took it out for a 200 mile run the other day and it ran great.
I do wish the throttle was not so light. I just have to rest my foot on it and off we go. I am running just the PMS throttle cable and it works well aside from the light touch.
Cheers,
Michael
Posted by: eric9144 Mar 19 2025, 11:44 AM
I haven't started mine in a couple weeks, will have to jump in and vid the cold start. Not even sure if mine is chipped but it certainly doesn't want to die on 'off throttle'
Same experience with the light pedal, it's kind of frustrating after years of a solid 914 pedal feel but eventually you get used to it.
Posted by: Root_Werks Mar 19 2025, 05:44 PM
Goofy issue #1 is likely lifters. While my six doesn't have a 3.6, does have a 2.7 with 993 cam caps, 964 cams and 993 lifters. A few weeks for me is fine. I have to go beyond a month before lifters will clatter for a few seconds. Just them pumping up is all.
Posted by: eric9144 Mar 20 2025, 08:12 PM
Did a cold start, barely jumps to 1800 rpm or so and settles at just above 1000 at dead cold—3.8, RS cams, chip unknown
Took a 20s vid but apparently it was too big to upload 
Posted by: Steve Apr 28 2025, 07:36 AM
Next steps get the electric AC working.
Mounted the Southern Air mini under dash evaporator. Not too intrusive. I need to make longer hoses and use different ends. Need to find better spot for the controls. Waiting for parts. Slow progress as usual. 
Posted by: gereed75 Apr 28 2025, 08:40 AM
Put the controls inside the glove box
Posted by: sb914 Apr 28 2025, 09:04 AM
Take the top off or open the window! You live in so cal .
See you at Wcr … 
Posted by: Steve Apr 28 2025, 09:16 AM
Take the top off or open the window! You live in so cal .
See you at Wcr …
I agree.. it’s mainly for road trips up North during the summer or trips across the desert.
I thought I was going to die coming back from the Tahoe WCR.
Posted by: Steve Nov 10 2025, 11:44 AM
Replaced GT3 muffler with my M&K 2 in and 2 out muffler. The Dansk GT3 muffler was too quiet and boring. Also very heavy compared to the M&K. I also replaced the crappy hot wire to the compressor with 2 AWG copper wire and replaced the 17” fixse rims with 16” Fuchs. I took this picture at Cars & Coffee in San Clemente last Saturday and used Meta AI to change the background to a virtual Porsche Dealer.
Now it’s just another generic GT clone! 
Posted by: sb914 Nov 10 2025, 12:50 PM
I’m going to need more pictures from a side angle.
Posted by: Steve Nov 10 2025, 03:27 PM
I’m going to need more pictures from a side angle.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=15191
Posted by: Steve Nov 10 2025, 03:37 PM
Posted by: Steve Dec 16 2025, 01:02 PM
More fun with Chatgbt. I took the advertisement and said replace my car with the one in the picture and mention 300 hp 993 3.6 RS motor and it came up with the rest. It changed my car a little bit and misspelling and grammar issues, but it’s funny what it came up with. Next steps for my car are 993 tach with OBD and matching speedometer. Otherwise I am having to much fun with it to make any other changes.
Posted by: mepstein Dec 16 2025, 01:10 PM
I like it.
Posted by: sb914 Dec 16 2025, 02:46 PM
Very cool . Not sure how to do that but very cool .
Want…
Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 17 2025, 09:48 AM
That is very cool and I like the 16" wheels.
Posted by: Steve Apr 10 2026, 09:57 AM
I bought a set of used Konig seats from someone that bought them from Jeff Zwart. Here’s a picture of them in his car. I will post a picture of them in my car when I get a chance. Very nice seats, but harder to get in and out of. The drivers side was a straight bolt in. The passenger side was more of a pain. I had to enlarge the rail holes and realign the rails on the seat to get them to slide right.
Posted by: sb914 Apr 10 2026, 10:47 AM
Keeps getting better!
Posted by: Steve Apr 10 2026, 12:17 PM
Keeps getting better!
Thanks!!
Another 914 guy said try to be happy with 95%, because you will never achieve 100%. The seats are nice and comfortable but a pain to get in an out. I added a lumbar pad to the seat bottom, which lowers the bolsters and makes it easier to get in and out of. Like the Lemans GTS seats, it has a springed bottom, which makes it more comfortable than stock. The higher seat bolsters are also nice if I ever autocross it again.
Posted by: Steve Aug 3 2026, 09:03 AM
My 0-5 bar pressure sender and gauge was pegged on a cold engine. I replaced the gauge with a 0-10 bar sender and matching numeric pressure gauge. I’m seeing around 100 PSI on a cold engine reving the motor around 3500-4K. Some threads on Pelican are saying this is normal. I noticed @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 posted the same issue on Pelican. Andy what was the outcome? Did you just live with it or make any changes?
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/1032181-95-993-3-6l-high-oil-pressure.html
Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 3 2026, 02:58 PM
Hi Steve,
Hope you are doing well and enjoying retirement. On my engine, I typically show 80 PSI when it starts and idles. If I raise the RPMs a bit it will go up, but not to 100. Once warm, it usually does not go over 80. It does appear the 993 motors run more pressure than others for sure. I am running 10W50 Mobil 1.
Posted by: Steve Aug 3 2026, 03:55 PM
Hi Steve,
Hope you are doing well and enjoying retirement. On my engine, I typically show 80 PSI when it starts and idles. If I raise the RPMs a bit it will go up, but not to 100. Once warm, it usually does not go over 80. It does appear the 993 motors run more pressure than others for sure. I am running 10W50 Mobil 1.
Thanks Michael for the response!! It only gets close to 100 until it warms up, so I baby it until then. Otherwise I am seeing the same as you. I am running Mobil one 15/50 synthetic. Retirement is great. I have never been this relaxed
Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 3 2026, 04:24 PM
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