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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Project 3.6 RS Thread
Posted by: Steve Feb 5 2024, 10:57 AM
After 23 years of service out of my 3.2, I decided to buy a used 1995 3.6 from LA Dismantler with 110k miles on it. I paid $25k for the motor, Plus an additional $5k from PMS for conversion parts. Got this motor home and two of the cylinders had bad leak down from the exhaust valves. Lots of goofy issues with 3.6 motors. They have an electric smog pump which clogs the SAI passages in the exhaust valves. Sometimes you can turn the engine over with compressed air through the spark plug openings and use a rubber mallet on the exhaust valves to clear it out. This did not work for me, so I sent my motor out to get a top end overhaul, bigger valves and RS Cams.
This will not be an RS spec motor. RS Spec is 3.8 liters, bigger valves, different injection, etc. My motor is just a 1995 993 motor with one size bigger valves, RS cams and steve wong chip. I asked PMS about the 3.8 slip ins and they said their is very little noticeable difference between the two and not worth it unless your changing the P&C's anyway.
LA Dismantler lessons learned:
-Get a warranty in writing
-Do a leak down at their location before buying the motor.
I did neither and they came up with a ton of excuses not to help me.
This is also true for any wrecking yard. My Euro 3.2 also came from a wrecking yard with no warranty, but that motor was flawless.
This will probably be a very slow progress thread. I still work full time and have a family. I bought this motor two years ago and finally pulled the 3.2 a couple of weeks ago. I sold the 3.2 to the guy that did the top end overhaul on my 3.6. On the 3.2, two of the cylinders had poor leak down, due to weak rings. The motor ran great before I pulled it and all the spark plugs looked the same. So I was very surprised about the leak down results. Besides spending $4500 to PMS three years ago to reseal this engine, it has never been apart. The PMS reseal was due to the normal oil leaks around the cam chain housings and other areas. Who knows how many miles were on it. The guy who bought it said the rings are weak and to spray WD40 in the cylinders. Sure enough it brought the leak down, from 30% down to 3% on one cylinder and from 10% down to 5% on the other. He plans on doing a top end overhaul on it and flipping it or putting it in one of his 914's.
I will add pictures and more info as time goes on.
Old Euro 3.2 motor
Used 3.6 motor
Posted by: Steve Feb 5 2024, 10:57 AM
Got stripped motor back from the top end overhaul. First thing I noticed so far was two stripped exhaust valve cover screws. I was going to install a couple helicoils, but I was able to clean the threads with a metric tap and dye set and use slightly longer 6x35 Allen screws versus stock 6x30. I don’t know why they went to smaller Allen screws on the 3.6. They are very easy to strip. Only 7 lbs of torque. I also installed Rennline valve covers. I had to grind down the top one to clear the oil line.
Posted by: Root_Werks Feb 5 2024, 11:20 AM
Be interesting to get your take on a 3.2 vs. 3.6.
Thanks for sharing the journey with us!
Posted by: Steve Feb 5 2024, 11:55 AM
Be interesting to get your take on a 3.2 vs. 3.6.
Thanks for sharing the journey with us!
I'm also curious... My stock Euro 3.2 with Steve Wong chip and matching 1986 915 gear box was amazing. On the way back from Rennsport chasing GT3's i wound out each gear including 4th like their was no wind resistance. I backed off in 5th at a 135 because I didn't want to go to jail. I have stock height tires. The 3.2 is much simpler to install in a 914 because you can use six tin, etc. 3.6 is allot more work, but it has hydraulic lifters and some other enhancements over the 3.2.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 5 2024, 11:56 AM
Looking forward to seeing this progress as I am still a few weeks away from dropping my 3.2 to start down this same path. ![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: SirAndy Feb 5 2024, 01:02 PM
I mean, i'm happy for you, the 3.6L is a blast in a 914, but man have prices changed since i did my conversion.
Posted by: Steve Feb 5 2024, 01:14 PM
I mean, i'm happy for you, the 3.6L is a blast in a 914, but man have prices changed since i did my conversion.
3.2 motors are also nuts. $15k for a core and another $15k to overhaul it or maybe top end overhaul for $8k. So.. rebuilt 3.2's are worth $25-30 depending on work done to them.For more info on 3.6 conversion, check out Sir Andy's link in his signature. Lots of good information.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=44700
Posted by: NARP74 Feb 5 2024, 02:10 PM
Unfortunately these prices are the new norm. They are not going back.
Posted by: mepstein Feb 5 2024, 02:18 PM
Unfortunately these prices are the new norm. They are not going back.
Look at the prices of the cars. Carrera’s ( the whole car) used to sell in the teens. So when I bought my rebuilt 3.2 engine for $4,500, it was a reasonable price. Now the Carrera’s are $70-80k so a $25-30k rebuilt engine is right in line.
Posted by: Steve Feb 5 2024, 02:31 PM
Unfortunately these prices are the new norm. They are not going back.
Look at the prices of the cars. Carrera’s ( the whole car) used to sell in the teens. So when I bought my rebuilt 3.2 engine for $4,500, it was a reasonable price. Now the Carrera’s are $70-80k so a $25-30k rebuilt engine is right in line.
I paid $5200 for my Euro 3.2 back in 2000. 3.6 back then sold for $8-10.
Posted by: Root_Werks Feb 6 2024, 11:19 AM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
Posted by: mepstein Feb 6 2024, 12:26 PM
We go the opposite on our performance 3.6-4.0 builds. Switch to solid rockers and RS style cams.
This is a 993 converted to 3.8, RS cams, big valves, ect.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Steve Feb 6 2024, 01:47 PM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
Posted by: mepstein Feb 6 2024, 02:25 PM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
Posted by: Justinp71 Feb 6 2024, 11:40 PM
After 23 years of service out of my 3.2, I decided to buy a used 1995 3.6 from LA Dismantler with 110k miles on it. I paid $25k out of my 401k for this motor. Plus an additional $5k from PMS for conversion parts. When you turn 59.5 there is no penalty for dumping some of your 401k. Got this motor home and two of the cylinders had bad leak down from the exhaust valves. Lots of goofy issues with 3.6 motors. They have an electric smog pump which clogs the SAI passages in the exhaust valves. Sometimes you can turn the engine over with compressed air through the spark plug openings and use a rubber mallet on the exhaust valves to clear it out. This did not work for me, so I sent my motor out to get a top end overhaul, bigger valves and RS Cams.
LA Dismantler lessons learned:
-Get a warranty in writing
-Do a leak down at their location before buying the motor.
I did neither and they came up with a ton of excuses not to help me.
This is also true for any wrecking yard. My Euro 3.2 also came from a wrecking yard with no warranty, but that motor was flawless.
This will probably be a very slow progress thread. I still work full time and have a family. I bought this motor two years ago and finally pulled the 3.2 a couple of weeks ago. I sold the 3.2 to the guy that did the top end overhaul on my 3.6 for $15k. On the 3.2, two of the cylinders had poor leak down, due to weak rings. The motor ran great before I pulled it and all the spark plugs looked the same. So I was very surprised about the leak down results. Besides spending $4500 to PMS three years ago to reseal this engine, it has never been apart. This was due to the normal oil leaks around the cam chain housings and other areas. Who knows how many miles were on it. The guy who bought it said the rings are weak and to spray WD40 in the cylinders. Sure enough it brought the leak down, from 30% down to 3% on one cylinder and from 10% down to 5% on the other. He plans on doing a top end overhaul on it and flipping it or putting it in one of his 914's.
I will add pictures and more info as time goes on.
Old Euro 3.2 motor
Thanks for the wisdom, I thought several times about getting one of their motors, but someone years ago convinced me to rebuild mine which I am glad I did.
Will be following...
Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 7 2024, 06:51 AM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
When I did mine, I had the cams reground to 993SS spec. The 993SS cams used solid rockers. I also did the big valves to improve air flow.
When I bought the motor, it was 8 grand for what was definitely a core motor. I had to buy all of the intake and electronics separately off ebay.
And a 4.0L engine does not require a GT3 crank and ITBs. With the proper piston and cylinder set from LN Engineering, you can get 4L out of a 964 motor with the stock crank. You can use the stock intake, but you will leave some horsepower on the table vs ITBs.
Posted by: Steve Feb 7 2024, 09:31 AM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
When I did mine, I had the cams reground to 993SS spec. The 993SS cams used solid rockers. I also did the big valves to improve air flow.
When I bought the motor, it was 8 grand for what was definitely a core motor. I had to buy all of the intake and electronics separately off ebay.
And a 4.0L engine does not require a GT3 crank and ITBs. With the proper piston and cylinder set from LN Engineering, you can get 4L out of a 964 motor with the stock crank. You can use the stock intake, but you will leave some horsepower on the table vs ITBs.
Interesting read on 4.0 options and reliability issues on Rennlist. https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/685232-what-is-the-downside-of-doing-a-4-0-air-cooled-engine-3.html
Clay what piston and cylinders did you end up using?
Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 7 2024, 09:39 AM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
When I did mine, I had the cams reground to 993SS spec. The 993SS cams used solid rockers. I also did the big valves to improve air flow.
When I bought the motor, it was 8 grand for what was definitely a core motor. I had to buy all of the intake and electronics separately off ebay.
And a 4.0L engine does not require a GT3 crank and ITBs. With the proper piston and cylinder set from LN Engineering, you can get 4L out of a 964 motor with the stock crank. You can use the stock intake, but you will leave some horsepower on the table vs ITBs.
Interesting read on 4.0 options and reliability issues on Rennlist. https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/685232-what-is-the-downside-of-doing-a-4-0-air-cooled-engine-3.html
Clay what piston and cylinders did you end up using?
LN Engineering Cylinders, JE Coated Pistons, and Pauter rods.
The case had to be split, and the spigots bored to take the cylinders.
Clay
Posted by: Lucky9146 Feb 7 2024, 09:57 PM
Glad you are starting Steve, will be watching and rooting for you regularly. I know there are a lot of issues to address.
I have that 993 motor of mine in the corner looking for enthusiasm and your thread just could be it!
Thanks for posting this thread!
Posted by: Bucci Feb 7 2024, 10:52 PM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
When I did mine, I had the cams reground to 993SS spec. The 993SS cams used solid rockers. I also did the big valves to improve air flow.
When I bought the motor, it was 8 grand for what was definitely a core motor. I had to buy all of the intake and electronics separately off ebay.
And a 4.0L engine does not require a GT3 crank and ITBs. With the proper piston and cylinder set from LN Engineering, you can get 4L out of a 964 motor with the stock crank. You can use the stock intake, but you will leave some horsepower on the table vs ITBs.
Clay, I had to do a rebuild on my stock 3.2 probably 15 years ago. I was zipping down the 57 freeway at about 120 mph. I was driving the motor pretty hard as I normally would. I shifted from 4th to 5th gear on the down down grade, and the motor made a very odd clunk sound after my shift..! I turned off the motor and coasted it into the gas station at the Temple Avenue off ramp. I tried turning the motor over after that point, and it would not spin or even start.. I called a flatbed tow truck and took it back to the shop. I then started the motor again, and it made horrific, gnarly, grinding noise..
Turns out, I actually broke my crank, and the motor was still running, almost sawing through the crankshaft bearing right over a journal in the case.
I ended up rebuilding the motor with a brand new crank from Porsche and I installed 993 Evo/ SS cams, super high lift and very lumpy sounding at idle. At RPM it’s gobbling up the air and has a very high RPM pull or power band. At about 5000+ RPM it is actually pulling harder at the top end which is mind blowing. I would definitely use these cams again, super impressive for a stock injection, set up.
Posted by: eric9144 Feb 8 2024, 01:31 PM
Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 8 2024, 01:38 PM
Steve,
If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?
-Dan
No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.
Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.
I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.
When I did mine, I had the cams reground to 993SS spec. The 993SS cams used solid rockers. I also did the big valves to improve air flow.
When I bought the motor, it was 8 grand for what was definitely a core motor. I had to buy all of the intake and electronics separately off ebay.
And a 4.0L engine does not require a GT3 crank and ITBs. With the proper piston and cylinder set from LN Engineering, you can get 4L out of a 964 motor with the stock crank. You can use the stock intake, but you will leave some horsepower on the table vs ITBs.
Clay, I had to do a rebuild on my stock 3.2 probably 15 years ago. I was zipping down the 57 freeway at about 120 mph. I was driving the motor pretty hard as I normally would. I shifted from 4th to 5th gear on the down down grade, and the motor made a very odd clunk sound after my shift..! I turned off the motor and coasted it into the gas station at the Temple Avenue off ramp. I tried turning the motor over after that point, and it would not spin or even start.. I called a flatbed tow truck and took it back to the shop. I then started the motor again, and it made horrific, gnarly, grinding noise..
Turns out, I actually broke my crank, and the motor was still running, almost sawing through the crankshaft bearing right over a journal in the case.
I ended up rebuilding the motor with a brand new crank from Porsche and I installed 993 Evo/ SS cams, super high lift and very lumpy sounding at idle. At RPM it’s gobbling up the air and has a very high RPM pull or power band. At about 5000+ RPM it is actually pulling harder at the top end which is mind blowing. I would definitely use these cams again, super impressive for a stock injection, set up.
As it is, my engine pulls like a MF from about 1500 RPM all the way to redline. And that was with the stock injection that won't deliver enough fuel.
So I am going to ITBs and MS3Pro injection on mine, so I should be able to coax more horsepower out of it. I am looking forward to it being back on the road. (Now that I am able to get out in the garage again).
Posted by: Steve Feb 8 2024, 04:14 PM
You totally lucked out getting one already done for way less than it would cost to build it yourself. This will hopefully be my last drive train upgrade to this car.
Posted by: kid914 Feb 8 2024, 04:25 PM
Posted by: eric9144 Feb 12 2024, 12:58 PM
You totally lucked out getting one already done for way less than it would cost to build it yourself. This will hopefully be my last drive train upgrade to this car.
100%
Also FWIW, what @mepstein describes is exactly the 'recipe' they did on my engine
We go the opposite on our performance 3.6-4.0 builds. Switch to solid rockers and RS style cams.
This is a 993 converted to 3.8, RS cams, big valves, ect.
And since every thread is worthless without pictures
Posted by: Steve Mar 17 2024, 06:43 PM
I trimmed the MB911 tin to fit my 3.6 and cut pieces off the 3.6 tin to fill the gaps. Note the indentation for the 12 plug distributer from the stock tin. Next steps is to either weld the pieces together or use rivets. I cut the top off the rear 3.6 tin but I will need to get the motor off the engine stand to make it all fit.
Next steps:
-Wire up alternator
-Put Fuel Injection back on
-Install Clutch
-Take motor off of engine stand and put on hydraulic table, so I can install the rear tin and mate the 916 gear box.
-Clean up engine compartment and install 3.6 wiring harness, ECU, etc.
-Install drive train. 
Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 18 2024, 06:27 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Hi Steve,
Very glad to see you moving forward and ahead of me. Kind of gives us a road map. I hope to pick up my car from Chris' Red Barn the last week of March. Seriously looking forward to getting started on engine stuff.
Posted by: Steve Mar 18 2024, 08:45 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Hi Steve,
Very glad to see you moving forward and ahead of me. Kind of gives us a road map. I hope to pick up my car from Chris' Red Barn the last week of March. Seriously looking forward to getting started on engine stuff.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Michael, I'm surprised you don't let the red barn cut and paste/weld the tin together. To do it right I envision welding the MB911 tin to the 993 tin in the front and back. Using plug welds, seam welds and scab plates. My welding skills are crap, but you can't really see the tin once the motor is in the car. I will also send it out and get the Frankenstein mess powder coated when done.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 18 2024, 09:07 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 Hi Steve - I have a set of the 993 tins and a new set of Ben's 914-6 tins. We will fit them and weld as needed- do some light bodywork then powder coat satin black. Should look good.
Posted by: Steve Mar 18 2024, 09:30 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 Hi Steve - I have a set of the 993 tins and a new set of Ben's 914-6 tins. We will fit them and weld as needed- do some light bodywork then powder coat satin black. Should look good.
Facing the motor, I should of cut more out of the 993 tin on the right side, to cover some of the MB911 holes and slots. Old Saying... Measure twice, cut once!!
Same thing with the rear... I should of left the 993 tin one piece and just cut off the top. Then cut off enough of the bottom of the MB911 tin to match the 993 tin, then make it two pieces.
I also plan on cutting the front piece of the tin in half, so I can easily remove it when removing or installing the engine. With the front tin in place, its hard to get to the Rich Johnson mount top bolts and his mount hangs up on the front tin. I don't know if the stock six mount has this problem.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 18 2024, 09:34 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Good to know- we shall see how it works out- soon I hope.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 20 2024, 02:18 PM
I did the same thing when installing my 4.0 motor. I had to alter the aftermark 914-6 tin and graft in the 3.6 specific items. And I had to fabricate the filler for the left rear where a 914-6 has the oil cooler.
Posted by: Steve Mar 26 2024, 10:48 AM
One week at a time. I can’t get to the rear tin with motor on engine stand, so I decided to put motor back together first and then put it on hydraulic table.
One problem at a time. The bottom studs for the motor mount were too short, so I replaced them with bolts like the top. I ended up with Top Right 10x35x1.5. Top left 10x70x1.5 and the bottom 10x55x1.5 and torqued all four to 30 ft-lbs.
The motor mount is a Rich Johnson mount that Otto's installed 25 years ago. I used it on a 2.7 for a couple of years and then on my 3.2 for the last 20+ years.
I used evaporust to clean and remove rust on the hardware. It made some of the hardware look oxidized. I ended up going to ace hardware and replacing all the shroud sheet metal screws. Not factory, but they look great. Factory has the washers permanently on the bolts for a ton more money.
Next is finish up mounting and wiring the alternator and then onto distributor and spark plug wiring and then onto the injection.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 27 2024, 08:39 AM
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 27 2024, 03:21 PM
The motor mount is a Rich Johnson mount that Otto's installed 25 years ago. I used it on a 2.7 for a couple of years and then on my 3.2 for the last 20+ years.
Is it the same engine side mount? I thought the mount spacing on the 3.6 engine was different from the 3.2 and older?
The reason I asked is I bought that half from Rich Johnson for my conversion car. And I had to shorten it to get the transmission mounts to line up.
We removed 1.25 inches from the U shaped plate between the engine and the arm for the mounts. That got the transmission mounts to line up.
Posted by: Steve Mar 27 2024, 04:00 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?
Posted by: SirAndy Mar 27 2024, 05:06 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?
No issues with the RJ mount on my car with the 3.6L and a stock 901.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 28 2024, 02:18 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?
I doubt it was the boxster trans. I built a jig that went on the 901 trans bell housing and connected to the trans mounts at the tail cone. Then I bolted the jig to the adapter plate and made the trans mount from it.
The mount was visibily different from the mount I had on the 2.4L engine. But I guess it was only the extra space for the bigger pulley.
Clay
Posted by: Steve Mar 28 2024, 08:10 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?
I doubt it was the boxster trans. I built a jig that went on the 901 trans bell housing and connected to the trans mounts at the tail cone. Then I bolted the jig to the adapter plate and made the trans mount from it.
The mount was visibily different from the mount I had on the 2.4L engine. But I guess it was only the extra space for the bigger pulley.
Clay
Rich modded factory motor mounts and you could order it with the AC mount to support the dual pulley for the compressor. I was going to go that route for AC until electric AC compressors became available. Even PMS is now installing electric AC in there 3.6 conversions. https://www.instagram.com/p/C451BwZJjiL/?img_index=1
Posted by: Steve Mar 28 2024, 09:46 AM
I trimmed the MB911 tin to fit my 3.6 and cut pieces off the 3.6 tin to fill the gaps. Note the indentation for the 12 plug distributer from the stock tin. Next steps is to either weld the pieces together or use rivets. I cut the top off the rear 3.6 tin but I will need to get the motor off the engine stand to make it all fit. I will be semi copying prs914-6 bottom pictures below, but I know it will not look as nice as his. The tin is pretty buried in the engine compartment so no big deal.
Next steps:
-Wire up alternator
-Put Fuel Injection back on
-Install Clutch
-Take motor off of engine stand and put on hydraulic table, so I can install the rear tin and mate the 916 gear box.
-Clean up engine compartment and install 3.6 wiring harness, ECU, etc.
-Install drive train.
Posted by: r_towle Mar 28 2024, 08:55 PM
Amazing creativity and comradery here on the 914world site.
I was hoping for the same with my 997, but nope.
You guys are inspiring me to get back to work on my 914 projects again.
Keep at it!
Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 29 2024, 08:33 AM
This is the absolute best car site ever. I have had many 911's and no site (for them) comes close. My Six would not even exist without this site for parts, resources and encouragement. I can't imagine ever selling my car.
Posted by: Steve Mar 29 2024, 08:57 AM
This is the absolute best car site ever. I have had many 911's and no site (for them) comes close. My Six would not even exist without this site for parts, resources and encouragement. I can't imagine ever selling my car.
I also think its because most of us work on our cars and or restore them. If you can afford a 911 you can usually afford to take it to a shop. A lot of the water cooled Porsche enthusiasts i run into are concourse weenies and sit around and talk about new Porsche's and all the various options available on them. I hang around them at cars & coffee. Really nice people, but I don't have much in common with them. It's also the OC! They drive a different Porsche to Cars & Coffee every Saturday.
I appreciate the feedback on my threads. I don't care if it gets off track. The goal is to learn from each other and our mistakes.
Posted by: Steve Apr 1 2024, 09:32 AM
Slowly but surely. Wired up Alternator and mounted fan, housing, etc. Also connected up the spark plugs and coils with PMS mount. Next steps fuel injection and wiring harness. So dumb.. I should have labeled all of the plugs, but I did take lots of pictures and I have the factory manuals and parts diagrams.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 1 2024, 11:23 AM
That looks nice Steve.
Posted by: SirAndy Apr 1 2024, 11:38 AM
Pro tip, if you mount the coils upside down on that mount, the center plug wires aren't such a tight fit.
Posted by: Steve Apr 1 2024, 01:27 PM
Pro tip, if you mount the coils upside down on that mount, the center plug wires aren't such a tight fit.
Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 !!
I will flip it tonight. I was just following the pictures on the PMS Web Site. They do reach, but they are tight. Probably not good on the wires with motor vibrations.
Posted by: burton73 Apr 1 2024, 02:15 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822
I just sent you a PM
Best Bob B
Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 1 2024, 02:21 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 - Note to self. 
Posted by: Steve Apr 22 2024, 12:17 PM
Not much progress. Caught Covid, dog ate my homework, etc.
I did get the injectors installed on one side and then I noticed cracks in the plastic intake manifolds. I ordered six more. I had the injectors cleaned and tested. I also somehow lost or misplaced the 9 pressure plate bolts and some of the intake screws, so I also had to order that stuff. Little by little..
Posted by: mepstein Apr 22 2024, 12:33 PM
They always crack. Luckily they are pretty cheap.
Posted by: Steve Apr 22 2024, 01:02 PM
Something else I read on Pelican. If the 3.6 came out of a Tiptronic car, you have to cut a wire on the ECU to tell it to run in Manual mode.
Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 23 2024, 09:58 AM
Nice detail. Seems like there are several hot rods in progress at the same time here.
Posted by: Steve May 4 2024, 05:57 PM
Plumbed the idle control valve into the new PMS 3.2 elbow. Blocked off extra vacuum lines. Added the distributor breather to Mickey Mouse heat exchanger ears. Also added another fitting for the charcoal canister. Next steps is the tin. This thing is a pain compared to installing a 3.2, but I know it will be worth it in the end.
Posted by: Cairo94507 May 5 2024, 06:55 AM
Looking good Steve; I appreciate the photos to keep us headed in the right direction with mine.
Posted by: Steve May 5 2024, 07:48 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 did you have to cut the rib on the intake manifold to point the throttle body straight back like prs9146 to clear the engine lid?
Posted by: Cairo94507 May 5 2024, 08:49 AM
Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2024, 10:28 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 did you have to cut the rib on the intake manifold to point the throttle body straight back like prs9146 to clear the engine lid?
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822
Yes, i did. I removed the bridge so you can rotate the two pieces independently.
Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2024, 10:35 AM
You can sort of see where it all ended up here:
Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2024, 10:37 AM
And this shows you where my air filter ends up:
Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2024, 10:40 AM
I think that short 90 degree bend piece between the throttle body and the air flow sensor is from a 3.2L.
Anyways, it's a tight fit but i didn't have to cut any sheet metal for all that to fit, the air filter tucks into the area under of the engine bay that's under the rear trunk lid, meaning it's protected from rain even when running an open GT engine lid.
Oh, and yes, that's a Gatorade bottle posing as a overflow catch can.
Posted by: Steve May 5 2024, 11:39 AM
Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 !! Time to take it back apart. Not that much work. Glad it’s still out of the car. PMS sells the reproduction shorter 3.2 elbow.
Thanks again for the help!!
https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/engine/products/eng914993ibkpmp
Time for a cinco de mayo corona light and continue on my 3.6 quest.
Posted by: Cairo94507 May 5 2024, 02:21 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Thanks to you both; your pictures and insights are very helpful.
Cheers,
Michael 
Posted by: Steve May 5 2024, 03:38 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 looks like you added another 45 degree elbow to the 3.2 elbow.
This allowed you to point the 3.2 elbow more down, so you could run the idle control valve hose on top.
I found this PMS picture with the 3.2 elbow flipped, so the idle control valve hose is underneath. I think this picture is the big Laguna motor.
Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2024, 05:11 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 looks like you added another 45 degree elbow to the 3.2 elbow.
This allowed you to point the 3.2 elbow more down, so you could run the idle control valve hose on top.
I found this PMS picture with the 3.2 elbow flipped, so the idle control valve hose is underneath. I think this picture is the big Laguna motor.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822
Ah yes, you are correct.
The second elbow is a Mustang part, must have been from a pre 2006-ish model since that's when i did the conversion.
Posted by: Steve May 5 2024, 05:44 PM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 looks like you added another 45 degree elbow to the 3.2 elbow.
This allowed you to point the 3.2 elbow more down, so you could run the idle control valve hose on top.
I found this PMS picture with the 3.2 elbow flipped, so the idle control valve hose is underneath. I think this picture is the big Laguna motor.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822
Ah yes, you are correct.
The second elbow is a Mustang part, must have been from a pre 2006-ish model since that's when i did the conversion.
Awesome! Thanks!! This is the easy part. I will figure this out with the engine in the car. I will most likely run the hose underneath.
Posted by: ClayPerrine May 5 2024, 07:36 PM
I did the same thing. I cut the two tubes apart so I could lower the throttle body.
Mine being a 964 motor, I was able to extend it so the air flow meter was mounted on the vehicle right of the intake and the air filter just cleared the firewall.
Posted by: Steve May 5 2024, 10:06 PM
I did the same thing. I cut the two tubes apart so I could lower the throttle body.
Mine being a 964 motor, I was able to extend it so the air flow meter was mounted on the vehicle right of the intake and the air filter just cleared the firewall.
Thanks Clay!
I forgot yours is a 964 motor. Didn't know the tubes were similar. It was pretty easy to cut them with a dremel tool and tin snips.Posted by: Steve May 6 2024, 08:45 PM
Idle control valve connected from the bottom of the PMS 3.2 boot.
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