Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 18 2024, 10:11 AM

Hi Everyone -

Some may be aware I recently bought the '95 993 3.6 motor Chris (Tygaboy) had for sale. I must have looked at his ad a 100 times and finally could not resist. Had it not been Chris and pretty local to me I probably would have passed.

The 3.6 has approximately 18K miles on it and came out of the 993 in 1997 following an accident. The engine was properly stored with rocker arms loosed and oil poured in the cylinders and turned over regularly. I pulled the plugs and it turned over like a new engine. Squirted some oil in, reinstalled the plugs and have turned it over a few times since it came to my garage patiently awaiting the swap.

Greg T. (master mechanic/technician/body man and painter) and a very good friend agreed to tackle this project at his garage. So on Friday (2/16/24), we drove to Greg's (it ran great) and a short 5+ hours later the 3.2 was out. We took our time and the biggest hassle was pulling the wiring harness for the 3.2 out of the car without damaging anything.

The next day we trailered my Six in Greg's enclosed trailer, pulled by his wife's beautiful Dodge Ram diesel, to the Red Barn! Yes, Chris, (master fabricator if ever there was one) another great guy and good friend @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 agreed to do some metal fabrication as a part of this swap. After seeing Chris' skills on multiple projects, I knew if someone was going to be cutting and welding on my car. I really wanted it to be him.

After looking at the current oil cooler setup, it was decided to leave my existing GT style oil cooler and add the 2 Spal 6.5" fans and see how that works. My 3.2 stayed cool while driving unless I got in stop 'n go traffic (What? None of that in the Bay Area!) and then the temperature would creep up. We will relocate my oil cooler thermostat from the front trunk (where the factory installed them in the GT cars ) to the engine firewall- where we all agreed it belonged. I have to give Chris credit for this plan as I originally was going to swap in a larger oil cooler and open the nose panel of my car up to mate to the new cooler with a nice duct . Chris pulled me back from the edge and said he believed cutting the nose panel out may not be necessary once the fans are installed.

Of course that is not all Chris is doing. My car has factory, non-retractible, seat belts and my brother and I prefer retractible belts. So we are installing retractible belts. Chris will do the fabrication; he did this to his LS car and it works flawlessly.

OK, here are some pictures to get this thread rolling; I hope you enjoy following along as this stuff happens.

Again, a sincere thanks to Greg T, Chris B., my brother Bob, HB (2 914 owner and good friend), for their support and encouragement. And thanks to anyone who has done a 3.6 swap into a 914 and posted about it so we have a road map. I will document our project to hopefully make it easier for others to do the same.

Cheers- Michael

Posted by: ndfrigi Feb 18 2024, 10:56 AM

Congratulations Michael!
Hoping that solid 3.2 will be going to a good car also!

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 18 2024, 11:28 AM

You'll love the difference!

On the cooling, just remember that unlike the 3.2L, the 3.6L does not have an engine mounted cooler.

Whatever you're running for a cooler up front has to do 100% of the oil cooling.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 18 2024, 12:07 PM

The Red Barn isn't sure what's going on. It's never seen a 914 that wasn't ratty or horribly rusted or getting modified in some strange way. I can almost hear it saying "You're telling me THAT'S what a 914 is supposed to look like?"

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Michael - I'll post pics as I make progress so you'll have full documentation of everything. I'm honored you trust me with your car but I have to say, it's nerve-wracking to have something this nice in the shop...

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 18 2024, 12:38 PM

Thanks Chris- The honor is all mine; I totally trust you with my car.

Posted by: technicalninja Feb 18 2024, 12:42 PM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Feb 18 2024, 11:28 AM)

You'll love the difference!

On the cooling, just remember that unlike the 3.2L, the 3.6L does not have an engine mounted cooler.

Whatever you're running for a cooler up front has to do 100% of the oil cooling.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 18 2024, 01:55 PM

Thanks technicalninja; I know you know your stuff and I appreciate your thoughts.

To be fair, my front end was a stock front bumper (no GT modification) with a GT modified valance. For air flow, I had the 5 round rubber plugs in the nose panel removed.

I realized I was having rising temps in sitting traffic during the summer so I had a front bumper "GT modified" to match the valance, essentially doubling the air inlet opening and have had very good results like that. However, since I am going to the 3.6 with no engine mounted cooler, I will start with adding the 2 Spal 6.5" fans with a programable thermostat and see how that works. If that doesn't get it done, I will then open the nose up, essentially connecting the round body plugs and see what that does. If that does not provide a solution, I will replace my current oil cooler with a larger one that I have.

Cheers,

Michael

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 18 2024, 02:21 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 18 2024, 11:55 AM)

Posted by: mepstein Feb 18 2024, 02:43 PM

Michael has a louvered pan. I’m still waiting on mine - lol.

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 18 2024, 02:56 PM

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 18 2024, 02:57 PM

Hi Andy - I have an aluminum shroud that seals the oil cooler and once I add the 2 fans, the fans so air will exhaust out the louvered panel in the trunk floor. That should provide sufficient air flow. If not, Plan B goes into effect.

Posted by: Dion Feb 18 2024, 03:15 PM

Best of luck Michael. It’ll be superb.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 18 2024, 03:35 PM

Fingers crossed!

Posted by: East coaster Feb 18 2024, 04:00 PM

My 3.6 used to run very cool with my fronted cooler. I had a couple fans installed but never needed them even on 95+ degree days stuck in traffic. I turned them on once when stuck in traffic and it brought the needle down a bit, but it wasn’t necessary.

That said, I did have the area where the holes are joined so it was one oblong opening to feed the cooler.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 18 2024, 04:28 PM

QUOTE(East coaster @ Feb 18 2024, 02:00 PM)

Posted by: Craigers17 Feb 18 2024, 05:41 PM

What are the odds this car leaves the Red Barn with a V-8 in it?

Posted by: Freezin 914 Feb 18 2024, 07:41 PM

Posted by: KELTY360 Feb 18 2024, 08:24 PM

QUOTE(Craigers17 @ Feb 18 2024, 03:41 PM)

What are the odds this car leaves the Red Barn with a V-8 in it?

Posted by: technicalninja Feb 18 2024, 08:29 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 18 2024, 02:57 PM)

Hi Andy - I have an aluminum shroud that seals the oil cooler and once I add the 2 fans, the fans so air will exhaust out the louvered panel in the trunk floor. That should provide sufficient air flow. If not, Plan B goes into effect.

Posted by: nivekdodge Feb 18 2024, 08:36 PM

QUOTE(Craigers17 @ Feb 18 2024, 06:41 PM)

What are the odds this car leaves the Red Barn with a V-8 in it?

Posted by: technicalninja Feb 18 2024, 08:50 PM

Quick question.

The engine in the first post is the engine you removed, correct?

If so, you ARE NOT driving hard enough as the flywheel doesn't appear to have even reached the "bedded" stage.

Looks "fresh" in the pics.

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 19 2024, 07:18 AM

Better get some flares and big rubber on that rocket.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 19 2024, 07:53 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21317 Thank God I was still waiting for my coffee this morning when I read your comment as I laughed out loud. That is some funny stuff right there.

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 19 2024, 11:47 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 19 2024, 07:53 AM)

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21317 Thank God I was still waiting for my coffee this morning when I read your comment as I laughed out loud. That is some funny stuff right there.

Posted by: Long_ago Feb 19 2024, 12:18 PM

Giddy Up



Attached image(s)

Posted by: burton73 Feb 19 2024, 01:17 PM

Hi Michael,

I sent you a PM

Best Bob B

Posted by: Craigers17 Feb 19 2024, 03:42 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 19 2024, 08:53 AM)

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21317 Thank God I was still waiting for my coffee this morning when I read your comment as I laughed out loud. That is some funny stuff right there.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 19 2024, 06:39 PM

Let's get the party started! Michael has agreed it'd be OK for me to video this effort and post it on my At The Red Barn YouTube channel. I hope to have the first episode done by this weekend. In the meantime:

As an early car, it has no accommodation in the upper, outer corner of the fire wall for the seat belt retractors. Michael asked that I cut/replace that area with pieces from a later car. After looking at what that would require (remove rear window, drill spot welds, send sparks flying) and how close the needed welding is to the already completed (and insanely beautiful!) paint work and sail panel vinyl, I told Michael it wasn't a risk I'd be willing to take, above my pay-grade, etc.

That led to a discussion of options and, given he'll likely never sell the car, and that it's already been modified in a number of other ways to make it just the way he wants it, he approved mounting the retractors at the base of the fire wall, same-ish way I did it in my LS car.
So, here're the doubler plates I'll be welding to the already stiffened lower fire wall, complete with proper 7/16 -20 hardware in place and plug weld holes ready to go.

Next step is to SAND SOME OF THE PERFECT PAINT OFF PART OF THIS CAR and get to welding.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: East coaster Feb 19 2024, 07:57 PM

Don’t oops and do that center plug weld

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 20 2024, 09:57 AM

Yesterday we crated the 3.2 for travel to its new home in a 914 in Wisconsin.

Posted by: mb911 Feb 20 2024, 11:01 AM

Very interesting close to me?

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2024, 06:21 PM

"It's only metal..."
Whomever made up that saying must not have had to drill holes in a car this nice!
With the chassis stiffener in there, it took a bit more than expected, but the clearance hole, she is done.
Then a quick test fit of the backer to mark where to remove paint (!) so I can do the plug welding.
Note that I did narrow up the backer so it'd be easier to get to the fastener that uses that hole to the left. I think it's part of what secures the back pad.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2024, 07:14 PM

Question for anyone who's fitted retractable seat belts to an early car:
I noticed the passenger side seat belt receiver mount sits further rearward than the driver side. Note the hole in the vinyl where the later year cars bolt hole would be.

Does that mounting point need to be moved forward to match the driver side?

No, I haven't even tried mounting a late receiver - I figured I may as well ask first, just to see what info others may have. Thanks in advance.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 20 2024, 07:44 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 20 2024, 11:01 AM)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 20 2024, 07:57 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 Chris, Taking a shot... and speaking with Greg T., my '71 came with a fixed passenger seat. It has now got the later movable seat. I would say the receiver (female) for the buckle needs to be in that forward hole (where the hole is in the vinyl). They should be directly in line with each other, driver and passenger receiver.

Posted by: worn Feb 21 2024, 12:00 AM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Feb 20 2024, 05:44 PM)

QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 20 2024, 11:01 AM)

Very interesting close to me?

Wish it was coming to me...

Posted by: Freezin 914 Feb 21 2024, 08:22 AM

QUOTE(worn @ Feb 21 2024, 12:00 AM)

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Feb 20 2024, 05:44 PM)

QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 20 2024, 11:01 AM)

Very interesting close to me?

Wish it was coming to me...

et moi

Posted by: mb911 Feb 21 2024, 04:02 PM

I know the new owner he is friend of mine. Exciting to see it go into his car.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 21 2024, 04:31 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 21 2024, 05:02 PM)

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 21 2024, 07:41 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 20 2024, 05:57 PM)

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 Chris, Taking a shot... and speaking with Greg T., my '71 came with a fixed passenger seat. It has now got the later movable seat. I would say the receiver (female) for the buckle needs to be in that forward hole (where the hole is in the vinyl). They should be directly in line with each other, driver and passenger receiver.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 22 2024, 07:23 AM

I will be at Chris' on Saturday and we plan to sort this then. We have a few options as Seatbelt Planet offers a variety of receivers. Thanks for the thought Andy.

Posted by: raynekat Feb 23 2024, 12:43 AM

I've seen some replace the extra onboard oil filter on the 3.6's with a factory cooler instead. Goes in the same place as the oil cooler on the earlier engines. I always thought "why 2 oil filters?"

Another option for additional cooling if you need it.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 23 2024, 07:03 AM

QUOTE(raynekat @ Feb 23 2024, 12:43 AM)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 23 2024, 07:27 AM

Thanks guys; that will be another option if Plan A is not sufficient.

Posted by: Luke M Feb 23 2024, 08:02 AM

QUOTE(raynekat @ Feb 22 2024, 11:43 PM)

Posted by: mepstein Feb 23 2024, 01:03 PM

QUOTE(Luke M @ Feb 23 2024, 09:02 AM)

QUOTE(raynekat @ Feb 22 2024, 11:43 PM)

I've seen some replace the extra onboard oil filter on the 3.6's with a factory cooler instead. Goes in the same place as the oil cooler on the earlier engines. I always thought "why 2 oil filters?"

Another option for additional cooling if you need it.

"why 2 oil filters?".... From what I recall it has to do with the Hydraulic valve lifters.

Posted by: Root_Werks Feb 23 2024, 01:14 PM

This is such a neat engine swap. There are more and more 3.6's finding ways into 914's which I think is very cool.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 24 2024, 05:30 PM

Today my brother and I took a ride to The Red Barn to see Chris and go over seatbelt and oil cooler stuff. I am glad to say we have a solid plan and I was able to sit in my car with the retractible seatbelt in place and it will work just as planned thanks to Chris' superb skills and abilities.

We also pulled the front bumper off and removed my aluminum oil cooler shroud to check on the actual real estate for the cooler/fan set-up. We decided to scrap the 2 Spal 6.5" fans and go with the larger Setrab oil cooler with 3 5.25" fans mounted on the backside of the cooler and then Chris will fabricate a new shroud, very similar to the one that was on the car. The new cooler is taller by a little over 1" and wider by about 3" and slightly thicker too. We believe that is going to handle the needs of the 3.6 just fine.

So I have some parts to return and new parts to order.

This is the current oil cooler which is coming out for a slightly larger one:









So we decided these 2 Spal 6.5" fans would not work the way we want and I will return them and get 3 5.25" fans to mount right behind the new larger oil cooler. I mistakenly ordered a 1 pass cooler and I need a 2-pass so my oil lines will remain on the drivers side of the car. We will relocate the thermostat to the engine firewall- where it really belongs.

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 24 2024, 05:45 PM

Lets compare sizes, shall we?

Images pulled from this thread:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=44700&view=findpost&p=893543

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 24 2024, 06:05 PM

Thanks for the pictures Andy. The oil cooler we are going to install appears to be a bit wider than that but otherwise looks about the same thickness and height. But the one currently in my car is smaller and why we are replacing it for the 3.6.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 25 2024, 08:34 AM

What happens At The Red Barn, stays at Th...er... Goes on my YouTube channel!
Michael agreed it'd be OK to post video of what we're up to so here's Part 1. Note that many of the folks who'll see this may know little about 914s so I spend some time talking about details that you may already know. Hope you enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyBpMUOeGLw

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 25 2024, 09:19 AM

Great job Chris . I feel so lucky to have a friend like Chris who is not only a terrific guy, but a master fabricator. I knew he was the guy to do the seatbelt modification after seeing all of the fabrication he has done over the years. Aside from that, he just has that kind of mind that looks at all of this and comes up with great solutions. I can not wait until we get to the new (larger) oil cooler, 3 5.25" fans and shroud. I know it will be just perfection in form and function.

Posted by: Luke M Feb 25 2024, 09:33 AM

Hi Michael,

Hey, have you seen the setup that Enrique, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9478 , did on his 3.6 install?

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=88955&st=920

I purchased 2 oil cooler fan kits from him to be used on my brothers and my 6.
Just a thought unless that's the way you guys plan on doing the install.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 02:36 PM

I watch this thread with great interest. I have a ‘70 914-6. Original #’s matching motor is stored away. Installed is a stock 3.2 with the original Weber carbs and fan assembly from the original motor. Motor looks stock with original air box. My goal is to not modify anything that isn’t reversable. The oil cooling is dual 930 coolers w/fans mounted below the rear trunk floor using existing mounts. So far this has worked really well including in stop and go traffic. Wheels are original deep 6’s modified by Weidman to R7’s front (205/55) and R8’s rear (215/50).


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 25 2024, 03:28 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=6113 M - Yes, I have seen Enrique's set-up and that is very similar to what we do. Thanks for the link too.

[b]@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13688 - Great looking car and I totally appreciate the stealth nature of your car. Mine is similar but I stayed with the stock Motronic on my 3.2 and will keep the 3.6 stock as well. I originally considered Webers, I had a set, but then recalled that I was tired of playing with them and really wanted to be able to lean in the window and just turn the key. I know some cars with Webers will do that....but not many. But there is nothing like the sound of those Webers when you step on the loud-pedal.

BTW, did you have to roll your rear fenders at all to fit those rims/tires? I am thinking it would be nice to get a tiny bit more tire under the car - in the rear especially.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 03:50 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 25 2024, 01:28 PM)

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 04:01 PM

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 01:50 PM)

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 25 2024, 01:28 PM)

<b>@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=6113 M - Yes, I have seen Enrique's set-up and that is very similar to what we do. Thanks for the link too.

[b]@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13688</b> - Great looking car and I totally appreciate the stealth nature of your car. Mine is similar but I stayed with the stock Motronic on my 3.2 and will keep the 3.6 stock as well. I originally considered Webers, I had a set, but then recalled that I was tired of playing with them and really wanted to be able to lean in the window and just turn the key. I know some cars with Webers will do that....but not many. But there is nothing like the sound of those Webers when you step on the loud-pedal.

BTW, did you have to roll your rear fenders at all to fit those rims/tires? I am thinking it would be nice to get a tiny bit more tire under the car - in the rear especially.

The rear was slightly flared from when it was new. So far I don’t know how to post more than one photo at a time! The Webers on mine work flawlessly. Fires up hot or cold immediatly almost like FI. It was dyno’d at 235hp.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 04:01 PM

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:01 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 01:50 PM)

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 25 2024, 01:28 PM)

<b>@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=6113 M - Yes, I have seen Enrique's set-up and that is very similar to what we do. Thanks for the link too.

[b]@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13688</b> - Great looking car and I totally appreciate the stealth nature of your car. Mine is similar but I stayed with the stock Motronic on my 3.2 and will keep the 3.6 stock as well. I originally considered Webers, I had a set, but then recalled that I was tired of playing with them and really wanted to be able to lean in the window and just turn the key. I know some cars with Webers will do that....but not many. But there is nothing like the sound of those Webers when you step on the loud-pedal.

BTW, did you have to roll your rear fenders at all to fit those rims/tires? I am thinking it would be nice to get a tiny bit more tire under the car - in the rear especially.

The rear was slightly flared from when it was new. So far I don’t know how to post more than one photo at a time! The Webers on mine work flawlessly. Fires up hot or cold immediatly almost like FI. It was dyno’d at 235hp.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 04:03 PM

3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 04:04 PM

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 04:06 PM

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)

3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 04:08 PM

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:06 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)

3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.

Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 25 2024, 04:13 PM

Impressive collection of equipment. That IG and bright chrome work is so right on a 914.

Posted by: JeffBowlsby Feb 25 2024, 04:32 PM

I’m seeing a creamsicle in this thread. Who owns it and is the car on the 914 Can Am registry?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 25 2024, 05:07 PM

Hi Jeff @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=104 - Hi Jeff, that car belongs to Greg T.'s son. He just bought it and I have looked it over and it is a very decent LE that has had 1 repaint. I will be there on Tuesday and ask Greg to check with his son and see if he minds if I check the VIN to see if it is already in the database, and if not, if I can add it. I do know he plans to restore it 100% stock.

Posted by: JeffBowlsby Feb 25 2024, 05:58 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 25 2024, 03:07 PM)

Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 25 2024, 07:41 PM

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 05:08 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:06 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)

3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.

Sorry about the multiple posts!!

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 10:01 PM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Feb 25 2024, 05:41 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 05:08 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:06 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)

3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.

Sorry about the multiple posts!!

Mr. 4CamGT
Can't tell from the pics, could your car be Green Metallic, 914 6 code 83 ?

Posted by: flat4guy Feb 25 2024, 10:02 PM

Might have to plan a drive down that way to check out the progress.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 25 2024, 10:53 PM

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 11:01 PM)

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Feb 25 2024, 05:41 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 05:08 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:06 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)

3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.

Sorry about the multiple posts!!

Mr. 4CamGT
Can't tell from the pics, could your car be Green Metallic, 914 6 code 83 ?

Yes it is

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 25 2024, 11:13 PM

Like the kids in the back seat - Does it run yet???

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 26 2024, 07:12 AM

I wish; I know you were joking. My car is at Chris' (Red Barn) and will be there for about 2 weeks more. I have to return some parts, order some parts and then it all has to get fitted.

Once that is done the car will go back to Greg's and we will do whatever is necessary to make any areas that had work look like they did before the work.

Then the 3.6 will go to Greg's and we will make the engine tins from a set of new 914-6 (Ben's) tins as well as the stock set of 993 tins and send them out for powder coating in satin black. We will do some service work on the 993, replace or refinish brackets, clips, clamps, etc., and then we can get her in the car. I am guessing 2 months overall. At least that is the road map....

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 26 2024, 08:41 AM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Feb 25 2024, 08:53 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 11:01 PM)

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Feb 25 2024, 05:41 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 05:08 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:06 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:04 PM)

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 25 2024, 02:03 PM)

3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.

Sorry about the multiple posts!!

Mr. 4CamGT
Can't tell from the pics, could your car be Green Metallic, 914 6 code 83 ?

Yes it is

Knew of it but have never seen it.
Very cool.
Love a 'sneaky' 6

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 26 2024, 04:28 PM

Like Chris says, "If it were easy, everyone would do it".

After 2 days of researching coolers, fans, talking with the experts, I ordered a different Setrab oil cooler. I have to thank Marv at Setrab. He walked me through Oil Cooler 101 and I learned the cooler I got from PMS, a single-pass, would work. But better than that is the same cooler in double-pass configuration. The double-pass provides 5-8% better cooling and is their highest performance oil cooler. We are also going to go with 3 5.25" "puller" fans that move 340 CFM each. So that should be moving a lot of freakin' air.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 26 2024, 06:53 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 26 2024, 02:28 PM)

Like Chris says, "If it were easy, everyone would do it".

After 2 days of researching coolers, fans, talking with the experts, I ordered a different Setrab oil cooler. I have to thank Marv at Setrab. He walked me through Oil Cooler 101 and I learned the cooler I got from PMS, a single-pass, would work. But better than that is the same cooler in double-pass configuration. The double-pass provides 5-8% better cooling and is their highest performance oil cooler. We are also going to go with 3 5.25" "puller" fans that move 340 CFM each. So that should be moving a lot of freakin' air.

Posted by: stevesc_us Feb 27 2024, 12:35 AM

The rear was slightly flared from when it was new. So far I don’t know how to post more than one photo at a time! The Webers on mine work flawlessly. Fires up hot or cold immediatly almost like FI. It was dyno’d at 235hp.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 27 2024, 07:00 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5569 No worries at all. That 6 looks just like one that use to run around Danville years ago; I always loved that car.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13688 - If I did not already have the louvered floor, that would be a great approach. We will have to wait to see how effective the louvers are at venting the air out of the trunk. I am guessing 2 months before we have it installed and running.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 27 2024, 07:20 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 27 2024, 08:00 AM)

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5569 No worries at all. That 6 looks just like one that use to run around Danville years ago; I always loved that car.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13688 - If I did not already have the louvered floor, that would be a great approach. We will have to wait to see how effective the louvers are at venting the air out of the trunk. I am guessing 2 months before we have it installed and running.

Posted by: sixaddict Feb 27 2024, 08:30 AM

One question keeps rolling around in my head …..unless you run the car on the track, if you already have a 3.2 why go through the expense (and mods) of going to a 3.6. I know you can never have too much horsepower, but seems like this may not actually improve drive ability. Don’t kill the messenger…..just wondering.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 27 2024, 08:40 AM

Yeah, I know. The 3.2 ran terrific, pulled like a freight train with the 964 cams and Steve Wong Chip and of course Ben's SS heat exchangers. But the 3.6 was just sitting there in the Classifieds for months....and I could not resist the fact it was a local, 18K mile, properly stored engine. Plus, though my car is not tracked or raced, why not? Oh, and hydraulic valve lifters too.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 27 2024, 08:46 AM

QUOTE(stevesc_us @ Feb 26 2024, 10:35 PM)

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 27 2024, 08:51 AM

For comparison…


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: roundtwo Feb 27 2024, 09:00 AM

Way to go Michael. A brave endeavor !!!

Saw your spotless car over at Chris's ...beautiful as ever...I can see why Chris is a little hesitant about mixing your car with even the hint of welding. No doubt I'll be spying on the progress of the seat belts and want to see the details of the fan install...a project I might need to copy and paste on my car.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 27 2024, 09:12 AM

It happened it was the year the Porsche Museum was celebrating 50 years of the 914!


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: gereed75 Feb 27 2024, 09:55 AM

Michael

What belt retractor and receiver are you using in the seatbelt upgrade

I did this back n the eighties on a car I no longer own and now can not remember the details. I seem to recall I used late 914 or VW belts/ retractors

Would like to do this on my car now. Love to drive it but those old belts do not inspire confidence!

Posted by: eric9144 Feb 27 2024, 12:06 PM

My car has the PMS front Setrab cooler along with dual fans (on a manual switch under the dash). In -most- normal driving situations here in SoCal, just the cooler without the fans works pretty well, when temps pop up a bit (driving hard or sitting in traffic) I will flip the fans on for additional cooling, have considered just putting them on a thermo switch so they kick on or off at temps but doing it manually isn't really a big deal... But then again I also have that massive Petersen style oil tank with 12-14qts in it --This is a pic without the fan shroud in place

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 27 2024, 05:47 PM

QUOTE(eric9144 @ Feb 27 2024, 10:06 AM)

My car has the PMS front Setrab cooler along with dual fans (on a manual switch under the dash). In -most- normal driving situations here in SoCal, just the cooler without the fans works pretty well, when temps pop up a bit (driving hard or sitting in traffic) I will flip the fans on for additional cooling, have considered just putting them on a thermo switch so they kick on or off at temps but doing it manually isn't really a big deal... But then again I also have that massive Petersen style oil tank with 12-14qts in it --This is a pic without the fan shroud in place

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 28 2024, 12:53 PM

For anyone interested, the oil cooler and fans in Eric's car appear to be the same cooler and fans I just listed for sale in the classifieds. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=369378

Posted by: eric9144 Feb 28 2024, 01:41 PM

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 27 2024, 03:47 PM)

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 28 2024, 03:35 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13688

get access to the Piech 914-8. We made a template over the rear flare. It matched very close to mine. So, it’s still a mystery

How did you pull this one off?

Either way, very cool

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 29 2024, 08:53 AM

QUOTE(930cabman @ Feb 28 2024, 01:35 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 5 2024, 11:53 AM

Michael opted for a dual-pass Setrab cooler and three fans. Setrab doesn't offer a fan mount set up for that particular cooler so it's CAD/plasma table to the rescue.
Here's the start of the fan mount. The green lines indicate the edges of the cooler core, the outer shape is the cooler body. This just gets me started on the fan positions.
Now I need to work out how I want to mount this to the cooler. I think it'll be sections that'll fold over and serve as the attachment points.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 5 2024, 02:49 PM

Parts have arrived- Yay! I know Chris wants to get this off his plate- and out of his shop. I am looking forward to going to pick her up and get busy with the 3.6 implant. Thanks for everything Chris; I am proud to have you working on this oil cooler set-up as well as the seatbelts.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 16 2024, 01:19 PM

I'm working up a one-piece cooler/fan mount with built in front lower shroud. Typical At The Red Barn approach: Do as good a job as possible on the first attempt but be prepared for a do-over, once I see it in real life.
This design needs a couple mount holes moved and that lower shroud area widened.
Off to fab V2...


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: technicalninja Mar 16 2024, 02:59 PM

Looks NICE!

I prefer the fans on the cooler versus fans attached to the floor over the lovers.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 16 2024, 03:36 PM

Not picking nits here but maybe add a few more holes to that backing plate so some air can go trough without having to hit the fans?

I see no benefit to only having those 3 holes for the fans. I'm guessing you are not trying to "funnel" air through the fans.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 16 2024, 06:39 PM

RE: comments about how the fan mount, clearance to the cooler, vents in the mount, etc:
Every pic I can find, and specifically the ones on the Setrab site, show the fans dead against the cooler with no other openings. Note that I spaced Michael's fans back .5".
I'm certainly not saying y'all don't have valid comments. I'm no expert so I'm thinking we'll go with what I've done, test it and if mods are needed, we'll go after them at that point.
I really do appreciate the input!


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: flyer86d Mar 17 2024, 04:34 AM

QUOTE(4CamGT @ Feb 29 2024, 09:53 AM)

QUOTE(930cabman @ Feb 28 2024, 01:35 PM)

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13688

get access to the Piech 914-8. We made a template over the rear flare. It matched very close to mine. So, it’s still a mystery

How did you pull this one off?

Either way, very cool

It was through my ex-Porsche colleague, Grant Larson. I was a Porsche designer in Weissach 1983 to 1990. Great years to be at Porsche!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 17 2024, 06:15 AM

Outstanding work Chris; I know this is going to work great.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 17 2024, 06:58 AM

I am sure it will work great. I am thinking it may not even need the fans but having never been to CA I really don’t have a good grasp on temps year round

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 17 2024, 07:36 AM

What size line do you have running up to the cooler? I have to plan this out for my 6. It had a front cool but was removed before I ended up with it.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 17 2024, 08:52 AM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Mar 17 2024, 06:36 AM)

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 17 2024, 08:58 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 17 2024, 09:52 AM)

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Mar 17 2024, 06:36 AM)

What size line do you have running up to the cooler? I have to plan this out for my 6. It had a front cool but was removed before I ended up with it.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=43 Michael's car has -12 lines. I assume that's standard for the 3.2/3.6 but I'd defer to those more knowledgable.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 17 2024, 03:54 PM

Fan mount/lower shroud V2 looks like it's a winner. I still need to add the fasteners for the upper fan mounts but in all, I'm liking it.
This component is far enough along that I can get started on the main shroud design.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 17 2024, 04:29 PM

Loving it! This is exactly why I knew Chris and the Red Barn were where I wanted to be . This is going to work very, very, nicely. I am getting excited to be able to go pick her up and move on to the next stage of this project.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 17 2024, 05:21 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 17 2024, 07:52 AM)

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Mar 17 2024, 06:36 AM)

What size line do you have running up to the cooler? I have to plan this out for my 6. It had a front cool but was removed before I ended up with it.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=43 Michael's car has -12 lines. I assume that's standard for the 3.2/3.6 but I'd defer to those more knowledgable.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 18 2024, 06:00 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 - Thanks Andy- That makes me feel even more comfortable with this set-up.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 18 2024, 06:17 AM

Oh, and just to follow up, the 3.2 arrived safe and sound to the new owner. I breathed a sigh of relief when he let me know.

Posted by: roundtwo Mar 18 2024, 11:56 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 17 2024, 02:54 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 19 2024, 02:35 PM

I'm reusing the pre-existing cooler mounting holes but they were so close to that drop-down in the nose of the chassis that even a small-ish washer wasn't a happy fit.

So for Michael, even the washers are custom.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 20 2024, 06:07 AM

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 20 2024, 01:48 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 19 2024, 02:35 PM)

I'm reusing the pre-existing cooler mounting holes but they were so close to that drop-down in the nose of the chassis that even a small-ish washer wasn't a happy fit.

So for Michael, even the washers are custom.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 20 2024, 02:10 PM

Driver's side seatbelt retractor mount:
- area prepped (welding jacket protecting things)
- secured with a couple self tapping screws
- TIG welded in place
Note that unwelded hole gets drilled out for the loacting pin on the back side of the retractor.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: roundtwo Mar 21 2024, 10:54 AM

Diggin' the whole oil cooler system...

For us off the shelf folks might something like this be an option for the oil cooler set up?

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=26672

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 21 2024, 04:18 PM

Really? No one? Really? I need you folks to pay more attention!!
Not one of you pointed out that if I didn't want to have those fan mounts poking up above the top of the cooler cover, all I had to do was ROTATE THE !@*%($# FANS!!!

I almost pee'd my pants laughing when I realized I'd totally missed this, created more work for myself, etc. Good thing I don't do this as my day job.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 21 2024, 04:22 PM

I used the redo as an opportunity to make a couple other updates:
- the whole thing is wider and it now competely encloses the cooler
- the width eliminates a minor air gap at the outer, lower corners between the cooler and this mount
- I oriented the fans so the wires all point in the best direction
In all, much better...


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 21 2024, 07:14 PM

If I had 1 year to design this, I couldn't. Chris is the best. I love this cooler/fan.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 23 2024, 10:08 AM

I'll be posting this on my channel at some point in the future but figured you folks would enjoy keeping up with progress closer to real-time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJHU7KiJnFI

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Mar 24 2024, 10:21 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 21 2024, 02:22 PM)

Posted by: JmuRiz Mar 27 2024, 10:19 AM

Good looking work!! Let me know if you plan on selling off the old shroud bits...if the red barn makes a new taller/wider version.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 27 2024, 10:45 AM

QUOTE(JmuRiz @ Mar 27 2024, 09:19 AM)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 27 2024, 11:17 AM

Damn that is looking so nice; thank you Chris.

Posted by: JmuRiz Mar 27 2024, 11:30 AM

Wow, good looking preview shot. I like!

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 29 2024, 05:00 PM

Shroud top, beading added, awaiting final trimming. Remember, it'll get covered with Perlon, just like the earlier version. Still, we want the part to be as nice as possible for Michael!


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 30 2024, 06:24 AM

Looks like that will.work nicely

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 30 2024, 06:49 AM

Amazing work Chris- Thank you.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 30 2024, 03:18 PM

Final trimming nearly complete.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Shivers Mar 30 2024, 03:44 PM

That is really nice.

Posted by: fiacra Mar 30 2024, 03:48 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 21 2024, 03:18 PM)

Really? No one? Really? I need you folks to pay more attention!!
Not one of you pointed out that if I didn't want to have those fan mounts poking up above the top of the cooler cover, all I had to do was ROTATE THE !@*%($# FANS!!!

I almost pee'd my pants laughing when I realized I'd totally missed this, created more work for myself, etc. Good thing I don't do this as my day job.

Posted by: East coaster Mar 30 2024, 04:56 PM

Looks great! Are the sides to be welded to mechanical connection?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 30 2024, 05:19 PM

Jesus...that looks great!

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 30 2024, 05:50 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Mar 30 2024, 04:19 PM)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 31 2024, 06:53 AM

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 1 2024, 02:54 PM

QUOTE(East coaster @ Mar 30 2024, 03:56 PM)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 1 2024, 03:03 PM

I could never thank Chris and Martin enough. This is just next-level beautiful. Thank you Chris and Martin .

Posted by: East coaster Apr 1 2024, 05:04 PM

Very nice!

Posted by: Root_Werks Apr 2 2024, 12:52 PM

Moving right along for sure! Big six in a non-flared 914 will be cool. Sleeper for sure.

Posted by: roundtwo Apr 2 2024, 09:06 PM

Santa’s helpers knocking it out of the park. Looks profesh for sure and no doubt functional when it’s complete.

Michael, do you know how you’re going to get power to the fans yet?
Curious to see if you need to add a new circuit.

Posted by: Steve Apr 2 2024, 09:39 PM

Amazing work!! Congrats!!

Posted by: KELTY360 Apr 2 2024, 10:37 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Apr 1 2024, 12:54 PM)

QUOTE(East coaster @ Mar 30 2024, 03:56 PM)

Looks great! Are the sides to be welded to mechanical connection?

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=487 Welded. But I don't trust my AL welding skills on someone else's stuff so I called in the cavalry in the form of Martin.
Here's an artsy-fartsy shot with the master at work with Michael's car serving as a back drop. Then one of the shroud in place. Nearly done!

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 4 2024, 07:20 AM

For those who may enjoy seeing how I made that shroud:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=388VwDuNM3A

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 4 2024, 08:20 AM

I just watched Chris' magic; I am left without words. I am blessed to count Chris as a good friend. His skills are just crazy, off the scale. I can't believe how nice the whole shroud/oil cooler set-up looks. We will powder coat everything and cover the shroud in Perlon to match the bulkhead. We are going to pick my car up Sunday and I can't wait to see it. Thank you Chris for doing this project and making it way, way, way nicer than any GT-style oil cooler/shroud I have ever seen. I doubt the factory would have even come close to this level of perfection.

Posted by: burton73 Apr 4 2024, 10:44 AM

Always enjoyable to see the work and process at the Red Barn!
Michael, your baby is getting much closer.
Bravo too everybody involved.

Best Bob B

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 8 2024, 08:34 AM

OK, we picked up my car from Chris ( @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 ) at The Red Barn yesterday. His work is absolutely stunning - pictures do not do it justice. I feel so lucky he accepted the oil cooler upgrade project as well as making the new attachment plates for my retractible seatbelts and welding them in. Every time my brother and I took my Six somewhere, we wished we had retractible belts. I am pretty sure we all heard a huge sigh of relief from Chris when we loaded it into the trailer yesterday.

Now my car is in Greg T's shop; where we will finish the project with the 3.6 install. I say "we" but let's be honest, I am the "gopher" as he works. I get to do little stuff, easy stuff, he is the mastermind. I consider myself lucky to have Greg as a good friend; we always have a good time in his shop. I love learning, and like Chris, Greg is an excellent teacher. His skills as a mechanic and body-man are outstanding. If you were at Werks Reunion last year, and saw the stunning Willow Green 914-6 GT parked a few cars down from my car, that is Greg's. I would argue that is his resume, and it speaks volumes.

BTW, here is a picture showing my old oil cooler in front of my new, larger, oil cooler. It is, I would guess, 25% larger. I am hoping between that size increase, the 3 fans, the digital thermostat and the beautiful shroud, we will not have any oil temperature issues.

Finally, here is my car in Greg's shop. Stay tuned as the project starts the next chapter.
I will endeavor to document all aspects of the swap and post here. Like my full build thread, (see my signature) I do this so everyone can see what it takes and how it can be done. I hope that makes the job easier for anyone who decides to do some or all of this to their car.

Posted by: Steve Apr 8 2024, 09:04 AM

Nice man cave!! I need to down size. My garage is two cars and wall to wall shelves with boxes of crap. Future retirement project!!

Posted by: mepstein Apr 8 2024, 10:02 AM

Stock 964/993 cars only have the one front cooler and they have 1k more lbs to push around. I bet your car works great.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 8 2024, 10:29 AM

Thanks Mark. I hope that is the case; but, we have a "Plan B" if we need it.

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 8 2024, 11:14 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 "I am pretty sure we all heard a huge sigh of relief from Chris when we loaded it into the trailer yesterday."
Yes, yes, you did! That was a fun project and I'm honored to contribute to your build but working around a car that nice made me a nervous wreck!
Thankfully, it escaped unscathed! I can't wait to see it after Greg works his magic.

Posted by: roundtwo Apr 9 2024, 08:39 AM

Always an entertaining and educational experience to stop by the red barn. I really enjoyed the vids and seeing the mods along the way. Given that one of my next projects is similar to this one, I’m super excited to pilfer Chris’s latest intellectual capital

I’ll get a hold of your office staff to reserve bay #2 before it’s filled
Seriously, well done.

Hoping you’ll share the next steps Mike particularly how you’re going to wire everything. Are the fans going to be controlled by an oil thermostat or simple on off switch, or …?


@cairo95507
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241

Posted by: roundtwo Apr 9 2024, 08:51 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 9 2024, 09:25 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - The honor was all mine. I really am thankful to have friends like you. This is a great community.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=23905 Hi Todd, We are installing an oil temperature digital thermostat as well as an on/off switch. So best of both worlds in the event you want to ignore the oil temperature ( never do) or just turn the fans on if sitting in traffic. We will be posting the whole process with pictures, unless I get to excited and forget to photo something.

Posted by: roundtwo Apr 9 2024, 04:42 PM

Great news. Can’t wait to see what you come up with. I noticed your oil thermostat is in front and mine in the rear by the oil tank. It’ll be interesting to see what you do with your thermometer/ temp switch.

Keep up the progress!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 9 2024, 06:15 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=23905 - Todd, That oil line thermostat in the front trunk is moving to the engine compartment where it belongs.

Posted by: Krieger Apr 9 2024, 11:07 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Apr 9 2024, 05:15 PM)

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=23905 - Todd, That oil line thermostat in the front trunk is moving to the engine compartment where it belongs.

Posted by: roundtwo Apr 9 2024, 11:12 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Apr 9 2024, 05:15 PM)

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=23905 - Todd, That oil line thermostat in the front trunk is moving to the engine compartment where it belongs.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 10 2024, 06:37 AM

I know, right?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 10 2024, 05:29 PM

Today we removed the oil cooler thermostat and flushed the GT hard lines and sealed them up. We located the spot on the driver's side of the lower firewall for the thermostat and this Saturday, (hopefully) we will mount that and plumb all of the front lines for the cooler and connect some lines, not all, to the thermostat.

Our next step, I brought the cherry picker home, is to take the motor to Greg's and get all of the engine tin cut and fabricated. Once that is done I will take all of the tins and the front oil cooler parts and shroud to the powder coater and get that all done in satin black.

Here are some very exciting (not) pictures from today:

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 14 2024, 06:09 AM

Made a little bit of progress- relocated Mocal thermostat to the engine compartment, on lower firewall, where the brake proportioning valve once lived. Fits nice and should work well. Also ordered the AN-12 fittings we will need to make up the lines.

Then installed the 3.6 fuel pump under the passenger side engine shelf. It is an odd looking thing, but hopefully will be very happy in that location. Oh, don't fret over the fuel lines you see that are pieced together- we will replace all that with the good stuff and not a bunch of pieces.

Taking the 3.6 and transaxle to Greg's on Wednesday so we can check clearances and begin cobbling together the engine tins. I am pretty excited to get that done.

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 14 2024, 08:51 AM

Progress! Gonna be a ripper...

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 14 2024, 09:06 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Apr 14 2024, 05:09 AM)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 14 2024, 09:22 AM

Ohhhhh noooooo; we shall have to look into that. Thanks for the heads-up Andy- much appreciated.

Posted by: East coaster Apr 14 2024, 09:29 AM

On my 3.6 I used the 75-76 mount/cover to mount my fuel pump under the tank just like stock later cars. It worked great and 3.6 pump mounted right up to it. Bonus is that it’s easy to access if needed.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 14 2024, 11:07 AM

I just happen to know where I can get my hands on one of those late model mounts....

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 14 2024, 11:10 AM

You can get the pump mount kits new from Restoration Designs - part # PP318P.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 15 2024, 09:00 AM

I confirmed the 993 has the fuel pump under the gas tank as well. So... two steps forward 1 step backward. We shall address that.

Posted by: Steve Apr 15 2024, 09:15 AM

I plan on using the same 044/GT3 pump that I used with my 3.2 mounted in the same 75 location as before.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 15 2024, 12:08 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 Lucky; 1 less issue to deal with.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 17 2024, 07:58 PM

Started on the engine modifications today and had a lot of fun. Greg replaced the badly damaged engine wiring harness with a nice new OEM harness. Then swapped out the stock fan belt setup for the Clewett Serpentine system (damn that's a beautiful piece) it's a shame no one will ever see it once it is in the car. We also moved the fuel pump to the front under the tank- fits quite nicely. Then moved the fuel filter from within the engine compartment to under the engine shelf. One less thing in the engine compartment.

I did a little cleanup on the engine- but it was pretty tidy to begin with. I was very impressed and please to see the top of the engine was spotless when we pulled the alternator/fan assembly out. I blew it put, but only a little dust came out. I was thankful we had no nests or piles of nuts in there!

I think the next step is to replace the hydraulic valve lifters, I got a set of OEM ones just because the engine has sat for so long. Then we will get the engine tins done so that can get sent off to powder coat along with the fan shroud and electric fan assemble.



[attachmentid=908276]

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 17 2024, 08:51 PM

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

Posted by: Spoke Apr 18 2024, 05:29 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Apr 17 2024, 10:51 PM)

Posted by: Luke M Apr 18 2024, 05:32 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Apr 17 2024, 06:58 PM)

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 18 2024, 06:21 AM

Thanks Chris and Luke. I checked with James Patrick (PMS) about my stock 6 motor mount and he assured me it would not be a problem. He says they run them with no issues with big motors.

From the way the serpentine kit installs, I do not believe it will creat any issues. But, until we install the motor mount on the engine, during the next work session, I am not sure.

My brother (jokingly) suggested I finish the firewall area in front of the fan with a chrome panel so you could see the reflection of the Serpentine Belt kit. It is a cool set up and that belt with the tensioner should be perfect.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 18 2024, 06:43 AM

Just my .02, but I think the stock /6 mount is inadequate for a big six. The extra torque makes more twisting on the stock mount. I don't like it. Something like the Rich Johnson mount or the NaroEscape mount spreads the load out farther and on two separate mounts.


The serpentine belt kit is the bomb on a 914-6 conversion. I have one on my 4.0L motor, and it makes changing the belt on the roadside a 10 minute operation rather than 2 hours of trying to fit shims blindly. One word of caution though. Sometimes the alternator won't start charging after startup until you blip the throttle.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 18 2024, 06:52 AM

Thanks Clay. I will call James and speak with him about the mount again to be sure. The reason I spoke with him about it initially, was I had the same concern about the torque of the motor and the stock 6 mount.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 18 2024, 07:10 AM

One other thing.

I don't know if the stock six mount will fit with the serpentine pulley. And even if it does, it may not have enough clearance to put a new belt on the pulley without removing the mount.

You should check it before you get it in the car.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 18 2024, 08:02 AM

Will do.

Posted by: technicalninja Apr 18 2024, 08:36 AM

QUOTE(Spoke @ Apr 18 2024, 06:29 AM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Apr 17 2024, 10:51 PM)

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

Posted by: Root_Werks Apr 18 2024, 08:58 AM

Not to hijack the thread, but the conversation around V-belt and the Serpentine belt is interesting.

There was a really good write-up (can't find it of course) on the VW Bug cooling limits. Folks thought the fan and tin were limited when it was actually the V-belt. Testing showed it started to slip around 4500rpm and would only turn the fan so fast. A change to a serpentine belt greatly increased the 4000+ rpm cooling.

Would imagine the 911 would be similar?

Posted by: Root_Werks Apr 18 2024, 09:00 AM

Found it:

http://www.offroadvw.net/tech/wes/fan.html

Posted by: technicalninja Apr 18 2024, 10:36 AM

Thanks!

That link was interesting...

We experienced cavitation on an RX3 ITA car in the cooling system.

The rotary engine had hardened pined stationary gears and could run up to 11K.

The water pump could NOT!

Massive underdrive solved the high RPM issues but slow RPM use would overheat the car after the change.

It's always a tradeoff...

Nice to know running a gaseous fan faster doesn't do the same thing.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 19 2024, 07:49 AM

QUOTE(technicalninja @ Apr 18 2024, 09:36 AM)

QUOTE(Spoke @ Apr 18 2024, 06:29 AM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Apr 17 2024, 10:51 PM)

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

4 times the torque capability and 1/3 of the rotation friction...

It's why NO ONE uses V belts anymore!

Serps have been around 3 decades. For the last 2 decades it's been nothing but serps...
Even factory superchargers run a wide serpentine. They used to run Gilmer belts (like a timing belt). Serps solved this issue.

Clay's note of having to accelerate the alternator through "thermal cut in" the very first time is usually an indication of rotational speed reduction. The pully system is more "under-drive" than the original stock set up.

This sucks balls for a grocery getter that never exceeds 2500 rpm.

For a sports car that might see 7500 RPM it is "THE WAY" and should be applied.
You have to rev it up a bit on startup...

Thats what the loud pedal is for anyway!

I'm betting Clay's big six on startup is a symphony for a car guy!

Not so much for his neighbors...

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 19 2024, 05:38 PM

QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Apr 19 2024, 08:49 AM)

QUOTE(technicalninja @ Apr 18 2024, 09:36 AM)

QUOTE(Spoke @ Apr 18 2024, 06:29 AM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Apr 17 2024, 10:51 PM)

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

4 times the torque capability and 1/3 of the rotation friction...

It's why NO ONE uses V belts anymore!

Serps have been around 3 decades. For the last 2 decades it's been nothing but serps...
Even factory superchargers run a wide serpentine. They used to run Gilmer belts (like a timing belt). Serps solved this issue.

Clay's note of having to accelerate the alternator through "thermal cut in" the very first time is usually an indication of rotational speed reduction. The pully system is more "under-drive" than the original stock set up.

This sucks balls for a grocery getter that never exceeds 2500 rpm.

For a sports car that might see 7500 RPM it is "THE WAY" and should be applied.
You have to rev it up a bit on startup...

Thats what the loud pedal is for anyway!

I'm betting Clay's big six on startup is a symphony for a car guy!

Not so much for his neighbors...

When leaving the house for an early morning event, I usually push the car to the street before lighting it off. And I idle my way out of the neighborhood. I may like the sound, but supertrapps at 6 am are an "acquired taste".

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 20 2024, 05:07 AM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Apr 19 2024, 06:38 PM)

QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Apr 19 2024, 08:49 AM)

QUOTE(technicalninja @ Apr 18 2024, 09:36 AM)

QUOTE(Spoke @ Apr 18 2024, 06:29 AM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Apr 17 2024, 10:51 PM)

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

4 times the torque capability and 1/3 of the rotation friction...

It's why NO ONE uses V belts anymore!

Serps have been around 3 decades. For the last 2 decades it's been nothing but serps...
Even factory superchargers run a wide serpentine. They used to run Gilmer belts (like a timing belt). Serps solved this issue.

Clay's note of having to accelerate the alternator through "thermal cut in" the very first time is usually an indication of rotational speed reduction. The pully system is more "under-drive" than the original stock set up.

This sucks balls for a grocery getter that never exceeds 2500 rpm.

For a sports car that might see 7500 RPM it is "THE WAY" and should be applied.
You have to rev it up a bit on startup...

Thats what the loud pedal is for anyway!

I'm betting Clay's big six on startup is a symphony for a car guy!

Not so much for his neighbors...

When leaving the house for an early morning event, I usually push the car to the street before lighting it off. And I idle my way out of the neighborhood. I may like the sound, but supertrapps at 6 am are an "acquired taste".

I have GOT to hear those!

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 20 2024, 06:01 AM

QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Apr 20 2024, 06:07 AM)

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Apr 19 2024, 06:38 PM)

QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Apr 19 2024, 08:49 AM)

QUOTE(technicalninja @ Apr 18 2024, 09:36 AM)

QUOTE(Spoke @ Apr 18 2024, 06:29 AM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Apr 17 2024, 10:51 PM)

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

4 times the torque capability and 1/3 of the rotation friction...

It's why NO ONE uses V belts anymore!

Serps have been around 3 decades. For the last 2 decades it's been nothing but serps...
Even factory superchargers run a wide serpentine. They used to run Gilmer belts (like a timing belt). Serps solved this issue.

Clay's note of having to accelerate the alternator through "thermal cut in" the very first time is usually an indication of rotational speed reduction. The pully system is more "under-drive" than the original stock set up.

This sucks balls for a grocery getter that never exceeds 2500 rpm.

For a sports car that might see 7500 RPM it is "THE WAY" and should be applied.
You have to rev it up a bit on startup...

Thats what the loud pedal is for anyway!

I'm betting Clay's big six on startup is a symphony for a car guy!

Not so much for his neighbors...

When leaving the house for an early morning event, I usually push the car to the street before lighting it off. And I idle my way out of the neighborhood. I may like the sound, but supertrapps at 6 am are an "acquired taste".

I have GOT to hear those!

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the headers and supertrapps are going the way of the dodo with the flat fan installation. I am going to 993 heat exchangers and a custom exhaust that will exit in the stock location. (yes, I want HEAT in the car!) I never liked the supertrapps. They were just a quick and dirty way to get the car running for Okteenerfest.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 24 2024, 07:11 AM

Spent the day getting oil lines sorted; still a little more to do on that but we should wrap up the lines on Friday.

Then Greg ( ) tackled the engine tins using Ben's tins- beautiful pieces BTW ( @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 ). Got both sides and the rear fitted. We still need to add the holes from the 993 tin for the plug wires to the new tins and do some final fitting. Friday we should get the last piece (front of the engine) done. Then the stuff I have for powder coat can all get sent off.

Posted by: East coaster Apr 24 2024, 07:42 AM

Looks great! This is bringing back memories from when I did mine 18 years ago….time flies!

Posted by: Steve Apr 24 2024, 08:05 AM

Awesome job! Looks great!!

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 24 2024, 08:59 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Apr 24 2024, 06:11 AM)

Then Greg ( ) tackled the engine tins using Ben's tins- beautiful pieces BTW ( @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 ). Got both sides and the rear fitted. We still need to add the holes from the 993 tin for the plug wires to the new tins and do some final fitting. Friday we should get the last piece (front of the engine) done. Then the stuff I have for powder coat can all get sent off.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 24 2024, 02:30 PM

Hi Andy - Yes sir; saw how you did your tins and we will do the same for the spark plug wires. Thanks for the link.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 27 2024, 07:06 AM

Spent some more time yesterday and finished up as much of the oil lines as possible without the motor in place. Then Greg got the rear and side engine tins wrapped up. Today we will finish the front engine tin so I can get everything to the powder coater.

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 27 2024, 07:44 AM

Looking REEEEEEEEALY good, Michael!
(That Greg guy does OK work... )

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 28 2024, 06:43 AM

Thanks Chris; yes, Greg is very talented, does beautiful work and tolerates my "assistance". [attachmentid=909300]. He wrapped up the engine tins yesterday and they go to powder coat Monday along with a couple other parts. I have to say, the tins came out beautiful-thank you very much Greg. I can't wait to see them after powder coating. Here is a picture of where we mounted the oil cooler thermostat using an existing mounting point from the brake proportioning valve.

[attachmentid=909300]




























Attached image(s)

Posted by: Luke M Apr 30 2024, 08:59 AM

How did the factory 6 engine mount workout with the 3.6 and new belt setup?

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 1 2024, 07:33 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=6113 M - Hi Luke- We had to modify the factory 6 mount, (engine side) a little bit. The relief cut was to remove a bit of material where it bulges out so the pulley/belt would clear. We then added in material to tie it all back together and be strong again. In reality, bolting it in place keeps it together, but we wanted to be sure it was solid. Other then that, if fits perfectly with the Clewett serpentine belt system.

Yesterday, after considering the brake setup I had, we swapped out the 23MM master cylinder for a 19mm ATE. The 23 was good but gave me a very high, hard pedal. Replaced it and bled/flushed the system and the pedal is great now. The 23mm is really ideal for a 4-piston caliper setup- I have 914-6 GT rear calipers and '88 Carrera front calipers with 24mm rotors. I am looking forward to driving and seeing how they work now.

We got the engine tins back from powder coat and they came out beautiful. We installed the flywheel and clutch package. Then we replaced the hydraulic valve lifters. I just wanted to be sure we would not have any issues with lifters. The stock lifters, after sitting in the engine since '97 without running, upon inspection showed the rubber O-ring had hardened. The new ones are an improved design with a sort of teflon ring. They went right in; we installed new valve cover gaskets and hardware and that is done.

We also stripped the rubber boot off the 3.6 fan shroud part to add the "Mickey Mouse" ears that PMS offers so we will still have heat. I have to say, stripping the rubber off that part was a pain. Now I need to send the "ears" off to powder coat so it matches the tins.

OH, and for those "Porsche tax" followers, I was missing the small rubber "gasket" which fits into a slot on the outside of the cam chain box covers- straight piece of rubber with a channel that accepts the engine tin where it sits against the chain box cover. In Post 192, the last picture, shows the chain box cover with the engine tin slipped into the slot on the cover where the rubber gasket belongs. It actually looks like a wiper blade refill with a grove. I thought surely it would only be $10..... well $132 later I have those 2 small pieces of rubber coming from Porsche. That was with my PCA, AARP, AAA, Old Dude, and good customer discount.... man, Porsche, really?

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 1 2024, 10:56 AM

You may have cleared the pulley, but did you leave enough room to get the belt past the front edge of the pulley?

Have you tried to put a new belt on the motor with the front mount bolted to it? Remember, on the side of the road, you will be doing this way down in a hole on the front of the motor. Yes, it is easier than changing the pulley shims, but I would suggest checking now to insure the clearance is there.

Mine is really tight between the pulley and the motor mount.

BTDT.....

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 1 2024, 03:56 PM

Thanks Clay; I will check that out tomorrow.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 3 2024, 07:17 AM

OK, we got another day in and are moving along nicely with this swap. I really look forward to my days working (watching mostly) with Greg. Nothing seems to unsettle him when we face a challenge.

First, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 Clay is correct; the Serpentine belt likely will not slip in and out with the front motor mount in place. That would be a flatbed ride home should that belt fail. I do not see this thing failing- it is quite stout, but that is the way it goes. We could cut more off the front motor mount to provide extra clearance, but we looked at it and decided not to do that. The motor mount is now installed.

We also swapped out the outer CV/axle bolts as they were a mismatch of 6 and 12 point. One was really badly buggered up and it took some ingenuity to get it out. We tried a bolt extractor kit as the inside of the 6-point allen was stripped pretty badly. As we worked through several possible remedies and came up scratch, our good friend HB, (owns 2 914's and Greg will be assembling a 3.2 SS motor for one of them) said wrap some aluminum foil around the 6 point allen and hammer it into the allen bolt. Greg looked at him, went and got some aluminum foil and that made the difference- that sucker came right out. Kudos to HB . Now they are all the same and properly torqued.

We put juice to the system to trace some wires and I noticed my odometer was at 99301. Those are the original miles on my car and I made sure the new speedometer, (with the extra digit) carried over my existing mileage when we swapped in the 3.2. I thought that was cool as we are putting in a 993 motor.

We installed the new fuel filter under the engine shelf on the passenger side- it tucks up there nicely and gets it out of the engine compartment. We plumbed the fuel lines and wired up the fuel pump. The fuel lines, pump, etc., all work and fit nicely compared to what the fuel lines looked like with the 3.2. Why on earth would anyone piece together several small pieces of fuel line to supply the engine? That mess is out and now we have new lines and proper clamps. The wiring for the fuel pump is next-level greatness. Greg seems to enjoy wiring and making it appear factory correct.

I am hoping to be back at Greg's on Tuesday to keep progress moving along.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 3 2024, 08:06 AM

For those wondering, here are the dimensions of my front trunk louvers:

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20649 :

Posted by: Root_Werks May 3 2024, 09:30 AM

I've used the foil trick on 12pt bolts before. Can't remember where I learned about it, but it really does help.

Project is coming along nicely! Really goes to show the different levels on swap complexity and time. This thread got me thinking about the challenge level for each six configuration:

Early card'd - Not bad, not much modifying beyond a stock six
Early MFI - About the same as carbs, but little extra work for fuel plumbing
CIS - Moderate to get the CIS to fit and look good, rotate 180, move the engine latch, fuel "center" mounted etc
Early DME - Haven't done one of these yet, but know it's a bit more involved, ECU, wiring etc.
964 - This thread!

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 5 2024, 02:24 PM

Going to Greg's tomorrow, Monday, to continue work. I really wish I could be there for a week straight....he would probably throw me out... It's a lot of work putting up with me.

Posted by: technicalninja May 5 2024, 02:44 PM

Thanks for the aluminum foil tip on the 6/12 point internal stuff.

I'll try that from now on before cold chisel or Dremel cut off wheel solutions.

So simple!

I should have already know that!

Bad Ninja, Bad, Bad Ninja...



PS. The 911 looks interesting!
Include more pics of it if you can.
It looks as nice as your car...

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 5 2024, 04:15 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=27135 - Yeah that '74 is going to be real nice. It is Greg's and he has done it all - disassembly, stripping the shell, metal work, body work and paint. The motor is going to be an MFI motor of course. The interior will be next-level greatness too. I will start adding some photos of its progress as my car moves along. Greg is a very talented guy.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 7 2024, 06:52 AM

Yesterday we started with Greg replacing the distributor belt. Now "they" tell you that you can drift the pin out for the gear at the bottom of the shaft; I call BS on that. We tried for a good 20 minutes and that little sucker would not budge. We ended up drilling it out and that did the trick with no collateral damage. I ordered a new pin from Porsche along with 2 rotors for general principle. So belt replaced and distributor reassembled- save for the pin which is on the way.

We then installed the oil return fitting below the oil filter on the 3.6 - took about 3 minutes- strangely satisfying though.

Then we installed the modified fan shroud "Mickey Mouse" ears and coil bracket with coils. I still have to order the new decals for the coils.

Greg did the modification that allows you to rotate the throttle body downward- that was a bit stressful just because we were cutting the plastic bridges (3) between the upper and lower. Glad to report that was done and now we can rotate the throttle body down about 1" or so to be sure we can clear the engine lid.

Then we pulled out ALL the wiring harnesses for this motor to go into the car. We have 2 PMS harnesses and then the stock 993 car harness that connected to the engine harness and DME (with 22 connectors). We already replaced the engine harness with a factory new harness- that was about $110= best deal ever. In total, It's a whole lot of wires and connectors. We are working to figure out exactly what we need and what can be discarded. That will be a big project.

We also got the PMS throttle cable on the engine- I just need to order the clip that connects it to the throttle body.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 7 2024, 08:31 AM

If I may make a suggestion:

Rewire the DME relay socket to use 2 standard Bosch square relays.

Original DME relay wiring diagram:



Modified to accept two square Bosch relays:



The reason I suggest this is that the factory DME relay is notorious for failing at the wrong times. It is considered standard procedure to carry a spare because they are only available from the dealer or specialty supply places. If you rewire the harness to use two Bosch square relays, you can get them at FLAPS and there are solid state relays available that almost never fail.

You can also use the round relay sockets the same way. Then you can borrow a relay from the headlights if your DME quits.

I did this on my 964 DME setup. It works great.

Posted by: Steve May 7 2024, 08:32 AM

Looking good!! Almost there... Removing the ribs on the intake was stressful. I used tin snips for the center rib, since I couldn't get to it with my dremel tool. I was worried it would crack the tubes, but the tubes are pretty thick, so no problem. I also need to do the distributor drive belt. Thanks for sharing that procedure. There is also a nice write up for this on p-car and Pelican. https://p-car.com/diy/diy.html

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 7 2024, 05:47 PM

Thanks Clay and Steve.

Clay, I will share your thoughts with Greg regarding the relay wiring.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 Yeah, we followed the Pelican DIY re the distributor belt. It was a very good step-by-step. I suggest your order a pin for the gear before you tackle the belt. The ignition distributor shaft gear pin part number is: Part #: 930-602-922-00-OEM. I believe I ordered it through Pelican.

Cheers,
Michael

Posted by: 930cabman May 8 2024, 09:13 AM

How could anyone estimate the hours, $$ involved in any of these conversions?

It's kinda crazy, really

BTW: looking great and I am sure the finish product will rock

Posted by: SirAndy May 8 2024, 09:16 AM

QUOTE(930cabman @ May 8 2024, 08:13 AM)

Posted by: 930cabman May 8 2024, 11:26 AM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 8 2024, 09:16 AM)

QUOTE(930cabman @ May 8 2024, 08:13 AM)

How could anyone estimate the hours, $$ involved in any of these conversions?
It's kinda crazy, really
BTW: looking great and I am sure the finish product will rock

It was really simple.
I purposely did not add up any of the costs so in my head i'm still convinced i did the whole conversion for less than $10k.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 8 2024, 03:27 PM

That's funny guys. Just the other day when we were working on it I looked at Greg and said, "What the F was I thinking? I had a perfect running 3.2 and decided to go through all of this? Greg laughed and agreed. He then said, "it's going to be bitchin' when finished". I sure hope so!

Posted by: 930cabman May 8 2024, 04:18 PM

Bitchin is good

Posted by: Gint May 11 2024, 03:03 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ May 1 2024, 06:33 AM)

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 11 2024, 05:21 PM

Hi @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20 . Yeah, here is a picture of one side, they are identical.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 11 2024, 05:31 PM

Didn't do much today. I did "install" the two stupid priced rubbers that the front engine tin fits into so it does not rattle and makes a good seal.

Then we installed the last piece of engine tin, the front (Fan) side- that completes the engine tins and I have to say they look great; Greg does nice work.

Then we began futzing around with the idle control valve that in its stock position sits right on top of the motor and looks like crap. So we are exploring relocating it under the intake or at the very least to the non-throttle side of the throttle body so it is not right in your face. We are going to source to 7/8" OD pipe and see if we can make a pipe that will allow us to move it. It pulls vacuum so a normal rubber hose would likely collapse.

Anyway, that was it for the day. We just kind of enjoyed lunch and then sat in the shade, like old men, and talked.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 11 2024, 05:32 PM

More:

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 12 2024, 05:57 AM

Nice air cleaner setup. But where is the Mass Airflow Sensor?

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 12 2024, 07:55 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 - Now that is a great question . The PMS boot which replaces the stock 993 boot has ports for "things". I doubt those are for the MAF sensor. I googled '95 993 3.6 Porsche MAF sensor and I don't think anything like that came with the engine as received. I will have to look into this on Tuesday when Greg and I next meet to work on this. And Clay, thanks for staying tuned in on this swap. I appreciate your expertise.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 12 2024, 08:00 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ May 12 2024, 08:55 AM)

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 - Now that is a great question . The PMS boot which replaces the stock 993 boot has ports for "things". I doubt those are for the MAF sensor. I googled '95 993 3.6 Porsche MAF sensor and I don't think anything like that came with the engine as received. I will have to look into this on Tuesday when Greg and I next meet to work on this.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 12 2024, 08:17 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 OK, that helps a lot. I will find one if we do not have it sitting somewhere. I checked the pictures I have of the engine as purchased and it did not have the MAF on it. I have reached out to the seller to see if it may be sitting around in his shop. Thanks again Clay.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 12 2024, 08:40 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ May 12 2024, 09:17 AM)

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 OK, that helps a lot. I will find one if we do not have it sitting somewhere. I checked the pictures I have of the engine as purchased and it did not have the MAF on it. I have reached out to the seller to see if it may be sitting around in his shop. Thanks again Clay.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 12 2024, 09:20 AM

Great; thank s again Clay.

Posted by: Steve May 12 2024, 09:40 AM

I attached the air flow sensor to the air cleaner. The MAF and air cleaner is 3.5”. The 3.2 PMS elbow and throttle body is 3”. I’m debating on extending the elbow like Sir Andy did, so I can run the idle control valve hose on top versus the bottom. Plenty of 3” intake stuff at O’Reillys and auto zone to make it work. Regarding the 1” pipe from the 3.2 elbow to the idle control valve, I cut up left over hose from the smog pump and other left over parts to extend the hose. Curious if you have to lay the idle control valve flat. I’ve only seen them horizontal on 3.2 and 3.6 installs.

Spectre and Home Depot 3” adapters.

Posted by: SirAndy May 12 2024, 11:51 AM

MAF just in front of the air cleaner

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 12 2024, 06:59 PM

Cool, all good stuff. I heard back from the 3.6 seller (not Chris BTW) and he will check his shop for the MAF early this week and get back to me. Hopefully he can find it.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 14 2024, 06:47 PM

Today we put the distributor shaft gear pin in. You drive it in and it protrudes about 1/8" on either side. Greg used a punch and hit it to make the pin swell in the gear- that took about 1/8" of the excess off and then he ground the remainder. That puppy is not going to come out without drilling it out. We then put the new rotors on and installed the distributor after once again confirming both rotors are properly timed. Then we connected the coil wires and that was a wrap for the ignition.

Then we installed the new throttle cable clip- nice and easy.

Then we installed the new electric thermostat for the oil cooler and secured the lines to the trunk wall with a riv-nut. Nice and tidy. This thermostat will turn the fans on/off automatically. We are also going to wire switch with an LED indicator to override that in the event I want to manually turn them on/off.

Then we pulled out the transaxle to address a output shaft seal leak that we had been unable to completely stop. We installed a speedi-sleeve (Stoddard) on the output shaft and then a new seal on the transaxle and reassembled. It feels like it should not leak again- fingers crossed. Then I cleaned up the transaxle so it will be ready to install once we get the crankshaft ignition sensor bracket that we realized we were missing. Order that from Gaudin and hope to have it by the weekend. The we can install that and then install the transaxle.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 14 2024, 06:49 PM

More:

Posted by: Krieger May 14 2024, 10:28 PM

Looking good! Why does your transmission look so nice?

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 15 2024, 06:16 AM

Hi Andy, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 - Thanks; it's a coating Mike Lesniak (Dr. Evil) applied when he rebuilt it back in approx. 2016. All we did was spray it with brake clean, lightly brush and blow it off.

Posted by: burton73 May 15 2024, 08:26 AM

Michael, all I can say is outstanding as always. The level of finish on your car is amazing and I hope all of this on this work to move from the 3.2 to the 3.6 is going to make you very happy.

Best Bob B Burton

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 15 2024, 08:30 AM

Thanks Bob @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7414 I sure hope so. I was hoping to get the transaxle installed on the motor, but we discovered we were missing the bracket that holds the crank position sensor...always something. I am also tracking down the MAF and hope the seller can find it by the weekend. A new MAF is a few hundred dollars.

The next time we are at Greg's I want to give the engine compartment a quick detail so it is ready to accept the motor. Then we will do the front trunk as it is pretty dirty too. I think I can install the front bumper and valance at this point too.