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Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 18 2024, 10:11 AM

Hi Everyone -

Some may be aware I recently bought the '95 993 3.6 motor Chris (Tygaboy) had for sale. I must have looked at his ad a 100 times and finally could not resist. Had it not been Chris and pretty local to me I probably would have passed.

The 3.6 has approximately 18K miles on it and came out of the 993 in 1997 following an accident. The engine was properly stored with rocker arms loosed and oil poured in the cylinders and turned over regularly. I pulled the plugs and it turned over like a new engine. Squirted some oil in, reinstalled the plugs and have turned it over a few times since it came to my garage patiently awaiting the swap.

Greg T. (master mechanic/technician/body man and painter) and a very good friend agreed to tackle this project at his garage. So on Friday (2/16/24), we drove to Greg's (it ran great) and a short 5+ hours later the 3.2 was out. We took our time and the biggest hassle was pulling the wiring harness for the 3.2 out of the car without damaging anything.

The next day we trailered my Six in Greg's enclosed trailer, pulled by his wife's beautiful Dodge Ram diesel, to the Red Barn! Yes, Chris, (master fabricator if ever there was one) another great guy and good friend @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 agreed to do some metal fabrication as a part of this swap. After seeing Chris' skills on multiple projects, I knew if someone was going to be cutting and welding on my car. I really wanted it to be him.

After looking at the current oil cooler setup, it was decided to leave my existing GT style oil cooler and add the 2 Spal 6.5" fans and see how that works. My 3.2 stayed cool while driving unless I got in stop 'n go traffic (What? None of that in the Bay Area!) and then the temperature would creep up. We will relocate my oil cooler thermostat from the front trunk (where the factory installed them in the GT cars ) to the engine firewall- where we all agreed it belonged. I have to give Chris credit for this plan as I originally was going to swap in a larger oil cooler and open the nose panel of my car up to mate to the new cooler with a nice duct . Chris pulled me back from the edge and said he believed cutting the nose panel out may not be necessary once the fans are installed.

Of course that is not all Chris is doing. My car has factory, non-retractible, seat belts and my brother and I prefer retractible belts. So we are installing retractible belts. Chris will do the fabrication; he did this to his LS car and it works flawlessly.

OK, here are some pictures to get this thread rolling; I hope you enjoy following along as this stuff happens.

Again, a sincere thanks to Greg T, Chris B., my brother Bob, HB (2 914 owner and good friend), for their support and encouragement. And thanks to anyone who has done a 3.6 swap into a 914 and posted about it so we have a road map. I will document our project to hopefully make it easier for others to do the same.

Cheers- Michael

Posted by: ndfrigi Feb 18 2024, 10:56 AM

Congratulations Michael!
Hoping that solid 3.2 will be going to a good car also!

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 18 2024, 11:28 AM

You'll love the difference!

On the cooling, just remember that unlike the 3.2L, the 3.6L does not have an engine mounted cooler.

Whatever you're running for a cooler up front has to do 100% of the oil cooling.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 18 2024, 12:07 PM

The Red Barn isn't sure what's going on. It's never seen a 914 that wasn't ratty or horribly rusted or getting modified in some strange way. I can almost hear it saying "You're telling me THAT'S what a 914 is supposed to look like?"

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Michael - I'll post pics as I make progress so you'll have full documentation of everything. I'm honored you trust me with your car but I have to say, it's nerve-wracking to have something this nice in the shop...

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 18 2024, 12:38 PM

Thanks Chris- The honor is all mine; I totally trust you with my car.

Posted by: technicalninja Feb 18 2024, 12:42 PM

I'm a HUGE believer in staged/in-series coolers.

If the 3.2 was having trouble in traffic the 3.6 (with fewer coolers) will be worse!

Before I chopped up the body and fitted a larger front cooler I'd try something like Chris Foleys new 4-cylinder rear mounted cooler as the primary followed by the existing front cooler. I'd most likely run the rear cooler direct and the front cooler after the thermostat.

Food for thought...

The whole kit is un-necessary in a 6. The rear mount and the "Setrab" cooler is what I'd be after. Setrabs by themselves are not expensive; I'd get the largest one that will fit.

https://setrabusa.com/collections/engine-oil-cooling?grid_list=grid-view&filter.v.price.gte=&filter.v.price.lte=

https://tangerineracing.com/shop/ols/products/remote-oil-cooler-kits

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 18 2024, 01:55 PM

Thanks technicalninja; I know you know your stuff and I appreciate your thoughts.

To be fair, my front end was a stock front bumper (no GT modification) with a GT modified valance. For air flow, I had the 5 round rubber plugs in the nose panel removed.

I realized I was having rising temps in sitting traffic during the summer so I had a front bumper "GT modified" to match the valance, essentially doubling the air inlet opening and have had very good results like that. However, since I am going to the 3.6 with no engine mounted cooler, I will start with adding the 2 Spal 6.5" fans with a programable thermostat and see how that works. If that doesn't get it done, I will then open the nose up, essentially connecting the round body plugs and see what that does. If that does not provide a solution, I will replace my current oil cooler with a larger one that I have.

Cheers,

Michael

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 18 2024, 02:21 PM

How are you currently exhausting the air?


I'm guessing you don't really want to cut into this car.
Before i cut the hood and added the shroud i simply removed the two large plugs in the trunk floor. While that did somewhat work, you could see the hood lifting at higher speeds and the front end felt very unstable above 80.
Adding a shroud would help with that but the surface area of those holes probably won't be enough to keep your motor cool. Plus, you'll be dumping all that hot air under the car, which is the last place where you would want that.

Anyways, after all the things i have tried, out the top is still by far the best option in terms of air flow and down-force but i understand that the look is not for everyone.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 18 2024, 02:43 PM

Michael has a louvered pan. I’m still waiting on mine - lol.

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 18 2024, 02:56 PM

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 18 2024, 02:57 PM

Hi Andy - I have an aluminum shroud that seals the oil cooler and once I add the 2 fans, the fans so air will exhaust out the louvered panel in the trunk floor. That should provide sufficient air flow. If not, Plan B goes into effect.

Posted by: Dion Feb 18 2024, 03:15 PM

Best of luck Michael. It’ll be superb.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 18 2024, 03:35 PM

Fingers crossed!

Posted by: East coaster Feb 18 2024, 04:00 PM

My 3.6 used to run very cool with my fronted cooler. I had a couple fans installed but never needed them even on 95+ degree days stuck in traffic. I turned them on once when stuck in traffic and it brought the needle down a bit, but it wasn’t necessary.

That said, I did have the area where the holes are joined so it was one oblong opening to feed the cooler.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 18 2024, 04:28 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=487 - If adding the fans doesn't cool things appropriately, cutting open between the holes is exactly what we agreed we'd do as the next step in the plan. Thanks and please keep the experiences coming!

Posted by: Craigers17 Feb 18 2024, 05:41 PM

What are the odds this car leaves the Red Barn with a V-8 in it?

Posted by: Freezin 914 Feb 18 2024, 07:41 PM

Posted by: KELTY360 Feb 18 2024, 08:24 PM

A flat eight would be more appropriate.

Posted by: technicalninja Feb 18 2024, 08:29 PM

Took my breath away!

That's just freaking gorgeous!

I'm so envious...

Put a temporary manometer in the duct (precise pressure gauge) and actually measure pressure BEFORE you cut out those beautiful louvers!
Opening front OK in my book.
Adding fans, just brain dead, automatically do it on anything that is used as a streetcar.
Changing the way that front trunk looks would be the very LAST mod I'd do...

Chris, I have 100k+ classics commonly here for AC work.
Not a one of them matches that car...
I'd be nervous around that!
I'd NOT ALLOW "randoms" within ten feet of that.

The Cobra 427 replica on my business website drew in people like nothing else I've ever encountered when it visited. it had a 50K paint job and everyone just had to "touch it". I couldn't park it outside. I had to threaten an "industrial" salesman once!

I just had to fix that Cobra.
You've got to CUT that car, maybe...
Still, it's SOOO much better to be doing that, on that nice a car, than fixing appliance vehicles like me.

Envious of you both!

Posted by: nivekdodge Feb 18 2024, 08:36 PM

Just one?

Kevin

Posted by: technicalninja Feb 18 2024, 08:50 PM

Quick question.

The engine in the first post is the engine you removed, correct?

If so, you ARE NOT driving hard enough as the flywheel doesn't appear to have even reached the "bedded" stage.

Looks "fresh" in the pics.

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 19 2024, 07:18 AM

Better get some flares and big rubber on that rocket.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 19 2024, 07:53 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=21317 Thank God I was still waiting for my coffee this morning when I read your comment as I laughed out loud. That is some funny stuff right there.

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 19 2024, 11:47 AM

Funny how things seem to snowball when it comes to car mania.

Posted by: Long_ago Feb 19 2024, 12:18 PM

Giddy Up



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Posted by: burton73 Feb 19 2024, 01:17 PM

Hi Michael,

I sent you a PM

Best Bob B

Posted by: Craigers17 Feb 19 2024, 03:42 PM

In all seriousness, I’ve only owned 4 cylinder 914’s, and while they are a blast to drive, I wouldn’t describe them as fast. I can’t imagine how fast your car is gonna be with that new engine in there. Awesome build!

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 19 2024, 06:39 PM

Let's get the party started! Michael has agreed it'd be OK for me to video this effort and post it on my At The Red Barn YouTube channel. I hope to have the first episode done by this weekend. In the meantime:

As an early car, it has no accommodation in the upper, outer corner of the fire wall for the seat belt retractors. Michael asked that I cut/replace that area with pieces from a later car. After looking at what that would require (remove rear window, drill spot welds, send sparks flying) and how close the needed welding is to the already completed (and insanely beautiful!) paint work and sail panel vinyl, I told Michael it wasn't a risk I'd be willing to take, above my pay-grade, etc.

That led to a discussion of options and, given he'll likely never sell the car, and that it's already been modified in a number of other ways to make it just the way he wants it, he approved mounting the retractors at the base of the fire wall, same-ish way I did it in my LS car.
So, here're the doubler plates I'll be welding to the already stiffened lower fire wall, complete with proper 7/16 -20 hardware in place and plug weld holes ready to go.

Next step is to SAND SOME OF THE PERFECT PAINT OFF PART OF THIS CAR and get to welding.


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Posted by: East coaster Feb 19 2024, 07:57 PM

Don’t oops and do that center plug weld

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 20 2024, 09:57 AM

Yesterday we crated the 3.2 for travel to its new home in a 914 in Wisconsin.

Posted by: mb911 Feb 20 2024, 11:01 AM

Very interesting close to me?

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2024, 06:21 PM

"It's only metal..."
Whomever made up that saying must not have had to drill holes in a car this nice!
With the chassis stiffener in there, it took a bit more than expected, but the clearance hole, she is done.
Then a quick test fit of the backer to mark where to remove paint (!) so I can do the plug welding.
Note that I did narrow up the backer so it'd be easier to get to the fastener that uses that hole to the left. I think it's part of what secures the back pad.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2024, 07:14 PM

Question for anyone who's fitted retractable seat belts to an early car:
I noticed the passenger side seat belt receiver mount sits further rearward than the driver side. Note the hole in the vinyl where the later year cars bolt hole would be.

Does that mounting point need to be moved forward to match the driver side?

No, I haven't even tried mounting a late receiver - I figured I may as well ask first, just to see what info others may have. Thanks in advance.


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Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 20 2024, 07:44 PM

Wish it was coming to me...

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 20 2024, 07:57 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 Chris, Taking a shot... and speaking with Greg T., my '71 came with a fixed passenger seat. It has now got the later movable seat. I would say the receiver (female) for the buckle needs to be in that forward hole (where the hole is in the vinyl). They should be directly in line with each other, driver and passenger receiver.

Posted by: worn Feb 21 2024, 12:00 AM

et moi

Posted by: Freezin 914 Feb 21 2024, 08:22 AM

This rules all of us out……..

Posted by: mb911 Feb 21 2024, 04:02 PM

I know the new owner he is friend of mine. Exciting to see it go into his car.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 21 2024, 04:31 PM

He’s getting a good engine. I’ve known the builder for years.

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 21 2024, 07:41 PM

I vaguely remember that there were different lengths of receivers.

I wonder if a longer one would be all you need instead of moving the mounting point forward.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 22 2024, 07:23 AM

I will be at Chris' on Saturday and we plan to sort this then. We have a few options as Seatbelt Planet offers a variety of receivers. Thanks for the thought Andy.

Posted by: raynekat Feb 23 2024, 12:43 AM

I've seen some replace the extra onboard oil filter on the 3.6's with a factory cooler instead. Goes in the same place as the oil cooler on the earlier engines. I always thought "why 2 oil filters?"

Another option for additional cooling if you need it.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 23 2024, 07:03 AM

I considered this a while back. There are directions on Pelican:

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/563879-retrofit-911-oil-cooler-964-engine-here-s-how.html

It wouldn't work for me. The cooler interfered with the adapter plate for the Cayman 6 speed gearbox.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 23 2024, 07:27 AM

Thanks guys; that will be another option if Plan A is not sufficient.

Posted by: Luke M Feb 23 2024, 08:02 AM

"why 2 oil filters?".... From what I recall it has to do with the Hydraulic valve lifters.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 23 2024, 01:03 PM

I’ve been told the filter on the engine is in the perfect spot for filtering the oil. The filter at the oil tank is less than ideal.

Posted by: Root_Werks Feb 23 2024, 01:14 PM

This is such a neat engine swap. There are more and more 3.6's finding ways into 914's which I think is very cool.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 24 2024, 05:30 PM

Today my brother and I took a ride to The Red Barn to see Chris and go over seatbelt and oil cooler stuff. I am glad to say we have a solid plan and I was able to sit in my car with the retractible seatbelt in place and it will work just as planned thanks to Chris' superb skills and abilities.

We also pulled the front bumper off and removed my aluminum oil cooler shroud to check on the actual real estate for the cooler/fan set-up. We decided to scrap the 2 Spal 6.5" fans and go with the larger Setrab oil cooler with 3 5.25" fans mounted on the backside of the cooler and then Chris will fabricate a new shroud, very similar to the one that was on the car. The new cooler is taller by a little over 1" and wider by about 3" and slightly thicker too. We believe that is going to handle the needs of the 3.6 just fine.

So I have some parts to return and new parts to order.

This is the current oil cooler which is coming out for a slightly larger one:









So we decided these 2 Spal 6.5" fans would not work the way we want and I will return them and get 3 5.25" fans to mount right behind the new larger oil cooler. I mistakenly ordered a 1 pass cooler and I need a 2-pass so my oil lines will remain on the drivers side of the car. We will relocate the thermostat to the engine firewall- where it really belongs.

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 24 2024, 05:45 PM

Lets compare sizes, shall we?

Images pulled from this thread:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=44700&view=findpost&p=893543

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 24 2024, 06:05 PM

Thanks for the pictures Andy. The oil cooler we are going to install appears to be a bit wider than that but otherwise looks about the same thickness and height. But the one currently in my car is smaller and why we are replacing it for the 3.6.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 25 2024, 08:34 AM

What happens At The Red Barn, stays at Th...er... Goes on my YouTube channel!
Michael agreed it'd be OK to post video of what we're up to so here's Part 1. Note that many of the folks who'll see this may know little about 914s so I spend some time talking about details that you may already know. Hope you enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyBpMUOeGLw

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 25 2024, 09:19 AM

Great job Chris . I feel so lucky to have a friend like Chris who is not only a terrific guy, but a master fabricator. I knew he was the guy to do the seatbelt modification after seeing all of the fabrication he has done over the years. Aside from that, he just has that kind of mind that looks at all of this and comes up with great solutions. I can not wait until we get to the new (larger) oil cooler, 3 5.25" fans and shroud. I know it will be just perfection in form and function.

Posted by: Luke M Feb 25 2024, 09:33 AM

Hi Michael,

Hey, have you seen the setup that Enrique, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9478 , did on his 3.6 install?

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=88955&st=920

I purchased 2 oil cooler fan kits from him to be used on my brothers and my 6.
Just a thought unless that's the way you guys plan on doing the install.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 02:36 PM

I watch this thread with great interest. I have a ‘70 914-6. Original #’s matching motor is stored away. Installed is a stock 3.2 with the original Weber carbs and fan assembly from the original motor. Motor looks stock with original air box. My goal is to not modify anything that isn’t reversable. The oil cooling is dual 930 coolers w/fans mounted below the rear trunk floor using existing mounts. So far this has worked really well including in stop and go traffic. Wheels are original deep 6’s modified by Weidman to R7’s front (205/55) and R8’s rear (215/50).


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 25 2024, 03:28 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=6113 M - Yes, I have seen Enrique's set-up and that is very similar to what we do. Thanks for the link too.

[b]@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13688 - Great looking car and I totally appreciate the stealth nature of your car. Mine is similar but I stayed with the stock Motronic on my 3.2 and will keep the 3.6 stock as well. I originally considered Webers, I had a set, but then recalled that I was tired of playing with them and really wanted to be able to lean in the window and just turn the key. I know some cars with Webers will do that....but not many. But there is nothing like the sound of those Webers when you step on the loud-pedal.

BTW, did you have to roll your rear fenders at all to fit those rims/tires? I am thinking it would be nice to get a tiny bit more tire under the car - in the rear especially.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 03:50 PM

The rear was slightly flared from when it was new. So far I don’t know how to post more than one photo at a time! The Webers on mine work flawlessly. Fires up hot or cold immediatly almost like FI. It was dyno’d at 235hp.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 04:01 PM

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Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 04:03 PM

3.2 with the original Webers and fan housing assembly.


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Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 04:04 PM

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Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 04:06 PM

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Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 04:08 PM

Sorry about the multiple posts!!


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Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 25 2024, 04:13 PM

Impressive collection of equipment. That IG and bright chrome work is so right on a 914.

Posted by: JeffBowlsby Feb 25 2024, 04:32 PM

I’m seeing a creamsicle in this thread. Who owns it and is the car on the 914 Can Am registry?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 25 2024, 05:07 PM

Hi Jeff @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=104 - Hi Jeff, that car belongs to Greg T.'s son. He just bought it and I have looked it over and it is a very decent LE that has had 1 repaint. I will be there on Tuesday and ask Greg to check with his son and see if he minds if I check the VIN to see if it is already in the database, and if not, if I can add it. I do know he plans to restore it 100% stock.

Posted by: JeffBowlsby Feb 25 2024, 05:58 PM

Thanks Michael. The registry is not set up for user modifications, but if you will send me the info I am happy to add it. I’ll need photos/data of as much of the following as is available:

VIN
City/state where located
Owners name/emaill
A few photos of the car
Cert of authenticity or PPS
Images of the two drivers door jamb plates (safety label & chassis number)
Engine/trans SN

Please email these to me. Thx!

Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 25 2024, 07:41 PM

Mr. 4CamGT
Can't tell from the pics, could your car be Green Metallic, 914 6 code 83 ?

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 25 2024, 10:01 PM

Yes it is

Posted by: flat4guy Feb 25 2024, 10:02 PM

Might have to plan a drive down that way to check out the progress.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 25 2024, 10:53 PM

Knew of it but have never seen it.
Very cool.
Love a 'sneaky' 6

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 25 2024, 11:13 PM

Like the kids in the back seat - Does it run yet???

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 26 2024, 07:12 AM

I wish; I know you were joking. My car is at Chris' (Red Barn) and will be there for about 2 weeks more. I have to return some parts, order some parts and then it all has to get fitted.

Once that is done the car will go back to Greg's and we will do whatever is necessary to make any areas that had work look like they did before the work.

Then the 3.6 will go to Greg's and we will make the engine tins from a set of new 914-6 (Ben's) tins as well as the stock set of 993 tins and send them out for powder coating in satin black. We will do some service work on the 993, replace or refinish brackets, clips, clamps, etc., and then we can get her in the car. I am guessing 2 months overall. At least that is the road map....

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 26 2024, 08:41 AM

Thank you! It runs amazing! It is by far the most fun and usable vintage Porsche that I have. Drives like a late 80’s Carrera but much lighter and faster. I don’t worry about it in traffic. The dual 930 coolers do a good job.


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 26 2024, 04:28 PM

Like Chris says, "If it were easy, everyone would do it".

After 2 days of researching coolers, fans, talking with the experts, I ordered a different Setrab oil cooler. I have to thank Marv at Setrab. He walked me through Oil Cooler 101 and I learned the cooler I got from PMS, a single-pass, would work. But better than that is the same cooler in double-pass configuration. The double-pass provides 5-8% better cooling and is their highest performance oil cooler. We are also going to go with 3 5.25" "puller" fans that move 340 CFM each. So that should be moving a lot of freakin' air.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 26 2024, 06:53 PM

I’m interested to see how well the louvered slots work vs opening up a rectangular hole as per factory GT. I like the idea of using the bulkhead holes. One idea I had early on was to fabricate a lengthened factory style shroud that extended to the rear floor holes. Maybe this could work with fan assist as an example of minimal mods that could be reversed?


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Posted by: stevesc_us Feb 27 2024, 12:35 AM

Freeman, so nice to see you posting on this site! Could you elaborate further about the rear flares being done when it was new? Does that mean you finally did confirm they were done at the factory? For those that don’t know, this was my beloved car for 25 years! Here’s another pic of these unique rear flares.

Michael, sorry for the hijack on your thread.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 27 2024, 07:00 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5569 No worries at all. That 6 looks just like one that use to run around Danville years ago; I always loved that car.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13688 - If I did not already have the louvered floor, that would be a great approach. We will have to wait to see how effective the louvers are at venting the air out of the trunk. I am guessing 2 months before we have it installed and running.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 27 2024, 07:20 AM

When I designed the louvered floor that Michael uses, I made sure it had ~2x the airflow as the PMS louvered panels. So it doesn’t look like a lot but it should continue to work well. I pulled out the round panels for my car. It wasn’t a matter of “one day going back to stock” I never will. It was just really easy. They are just held in with seam sealer.

Posted by: sixaddict Feb 27 2024, 08:30 AM

One question keeps rolling around in my head …..unless you run the car on the track, if you already have a 3.2 why go through the expense (and mods) of going to a 3.6. I know you can never have too much horsepower, but seems like this may not actually improve drive ability. Don’t kill the messenger…..just wondering.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 27 2024, 08:40 AM

Yeah, I know. The 3.2 ran terrific, pulled like a freight train with the 964 cams and Steve Wong Chip and of course Ben's SS heat exchangers. But the 3.6 was just sitting there in the Classifieds for months....and I could not resist the fact it was a local, 18K mile, properly stored engine. Plus, though my car is not tracked or raced, why not? Oh, and hydraulic valve lifters too.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 27 2024, 08:46 AM

Steve, nice to see you here as well! Back in 2019 I visited the Porsche Museum with my ex-colleague, Porsche designer Grant Larson. We didn’t find any documentation on the rear flares. We did however get access to the Piech 914-8. We made a template over the rear flare. It matched very close to mine. So, it’s still a mystery


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Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 27 2024, 08:51 AM

For comparison…


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Posted by: roundtwo Feb 27 2024, 09:00 AM

Way to go Michael. A brave endeavor !!!

Saw your spotless car over at Chris's ...beautiful as ever...I can see why Chris is a little hesitant about mixing your car with even the hint of welding. No doubt I'll be spying on the progress of the seat belts and want to see the details of the fan install...a project I might need to copy and paste on my car.

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 27 2024, 09:12 AM

It happened it was the year the Porsche Museum was celebrating 50 years of the 914!


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Posted by: gereed75 Feb 27 2024, 09:55 AM

Michael

What belt retractor and receiver are you using in the seatbelt upgrade

I did this back n the eighties on a car I no longer own and now can not remember the details. I seem to recall I used late 914 or VW belts/ retractors

Would like to do this on my car now. Love to drive it but those old belts do not inspire confidence!

Posted by: eric9144 Feb 27 2024, 12:06 PM

My car has the PMS front Setrab cooler along with dual fans (on a manual switch under the dash). In -most- normal driving situations here in SoCal, just the cooler without the fans works pretty well, when temps pop up a bit (driving hard or sitting in traffic) I will flip the fans on for additional cooling, have considered just putting them on a thermo switch so they kick on or off at temps but doing it manually isn't really a big deal... But then again I also have that massive Petersen style oil tank with 12-14qts in it --This is a pic without the fan shroud in place

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 27 2024, 05:47 PM

This is an interesting layout. Do the fans get in the way of ventilating the heat out when the fans are off vs having the fans mounted to the cooler? How big is the inlet hole on the bulkhead?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 28 2024, 12:53 PM

For anyone interested, the oil cooler and fans in Eric's car appear to be the same cooler and fans I just listed for sale in the classifieds. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=369378

Posted by: eric9144 Feb 28 2024, 01:41 PM

The fans don't seem to be in the way as most times I'm not even running them and it takes a bit to come up to temp... inlet pics:

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 28 2024, 03:35 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13688

get access to the Piech 914-8. We made a template over the rear flare. It matched very close to mine. So, it’s still a mystery

How did you pull this one off?

Either way, very cool

Posted by: 4CamGT Feb 29 2024, 08:53 AM

It was through my ex-Porsche colleague, Grant Larson. I was a Porsche designer in Weissach 1983 to 1990. Great years to be at Porsche!


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Posted by: tygaboy Mar 5 2024, 11:53 AM

Michael opted for a dual-pass Setrab cooler and three fans. Setrab doesn't offer a fan mount set up for that particular cooler so it's CAD/plasma table to the rescue.
Here's the start of the fan mount. The green lines indicate the edges of the cooler core, the outer shape is the cooler body. This just gets me started on the fan positions.
Now I need to work out how I want to mount this to the cooler. I think it'll be sections that'll fold over and serve as the attachment points.


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 5 2024, 02:49 PM

Parts have arrived- Yay! I know Chris wants to get this off his plate- and out of his shop. I am looking forward to going to pick her up and get busy with the 3.6 implant. Thanks for everything Chris; I am proud to have you working on this oil cooler set-up as well as the seatbelts.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 16 2024, 01:19 PM

I'm working up a one-piece cooler/fan mount with built in front lower shroud. Typical At The Red Barn approach: Do as good a job as possible on the first attempt but be prepared for a do-over, once I see it in real life.
This design needs a couple mount holes moved and that lower shroud area widened.
Off to fab V2...


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Posted by: technicalninja Mar 16 2024, 02:59 PM

Looks NICE!

I prefer the fans on the cooler versus fans attached to the floor over the lovers.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 16 2024, 03:36 PM

Not picking nits here but maybe add a few more holes to that backing plate so some air can go trough without having to hit the fans?

I see no benefit to only having those 3 holes for the fans. I'm guessing you are not trying to "funnel" air through the fans.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 16 2024, 06:39 PM

RE: comments about how the fan mount, clearance to the cooler, vents in the mount, etc:
Every pic I can find, and specifically the ones on the Setrab site, show the fans dead against the cooler with no other openings. Note that I spaced Michael's fans back .5".
I'm certainly not saying y'all don't have valid comments. I'm no expert so I'm thinking we'll go with what I've done, test it and if mods are needed, we'll go after them at that point.
I really do appreciate the input!


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Posted by: flyer86d Mar 17 2024, 04:34 AM

I like the flares and the green metallic. You don’t see many in that color.

Charlie

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 17 2024, 06:15 AM

Outstanding work Chris; I know this is going to work great.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 17 2024, 06:58 AM

I am sure it will work great. I am thinking it may not even need the fans but having never been to CA I really don’t have a good grasp on temps year round

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 17 2024, 07:36 AM

What size line do you have running up to the cooler? I have to plan this out for my 6. It had a front cool but was removed before I ended up with it.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 17 2024, 08:52 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=43 Michael's car has -12 lines. I assume that's standard for the 3.2/3.6 but I'd defer to those more knowledgable.

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 17 2024, 08:58 AM

Thanks. I have been researching hard line stuff but haven't gotten as far as sizing.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 17 2024, 03:54 PM

Fan mount/lower shroud V2 looks like it's a winner. I still need to add the fasteners for the upper fan mounts but in all, I'm liking it.
This component is far enough along that I can get started on the main shroud design.


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 17 2024, 04:29 PM

Loving it! This is exactly why I knew Chris and the Red Barn were where I wanted to be . This is going to work very, very, nicely. I am getting excited to be able to go pick her up and move on to the next stage of this project.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 17 2024, 05:21 PM

I'm running -12 on my car, should be plenty.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 18 2024, 06:00 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 - Thanks Andy- That makes me feel even more comfortable with this set-up.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 18 2024, 06:17 AM

Oh, and just to follow up, the 3.2 arrived safe and sound to the new owner. I breathed a sigh of relief when he let me know.

Posted by: roundtwo Mar 18 2024, 11:56 AM

WOW very slick. Looks fantastic and FUNCTIONAL!!

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 19 2024, 02:35 PM

I'm reusing the pre-existing cooler mounting holes but they were so close to that drop-down in the nose of the chassis that even a small-ish washer wasn't a happy fit.

So for Michael, even the washers are custom.


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 20 2024, 06:07 AM

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 20 2024, 01:48 PM

With the /6 conversion I have been working on, it appears the same. So many custom bits. How would anybody estimate the $$ for one of these?

labor of love for sure

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 20 2024, 02:10 PM

Driver's side seatbelt retractor mount:
- area prepped (welding jacket protecting things)
- secured with a couple self tapping screws
- TIG welded in place
Note that unwelded hole gets drilled out for the loacting pin on the back side of the retractor.


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Posted by: roundtwo Mar 21 2024, 10:54 AM

Diggin' the whole oil cooler system...

For us off the shelf folks might something like this be an option for the oil cooler set up?

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=26672

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 21 2024, 04:18 PM

Really? No one? Really? I need you folks to pay more attention!!
Not one of you pointed out that if I didn't want to have those fan mounts poking up above the top of the cooler cover, all I had to do was ROTATE THE !@*%($# FANS!!!

I almost pee'd my pants laughing when I realized I'd totally missed this, created more work for myself, etc. Good thing I don't do this as my day job.


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Posted by: tygaboy Mar 21 2024, 04:22 PM

I used the redo as an opportunity to make a couple other updates:
- the whole thing is wider and it now competely encloses the cooler
- the width eliminates a minor air gap at the outer, lower corners between the cooler and this mount
- I oriented the fans so the wires all point in the best direction
In all, much better...


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 21 2024, 07:14 PM

If I had 1 year to design this, I couldn't. Chris is the best. I love this cooler/fan.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 23 2024, 10:08 AM

I'll be posting this on my channel at some point in the future but figured you folks would enjoy keeping up with progress closer to real-time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJHU7KiJnFI

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Mar 24 2024, 10:21 AM

Simply beautiful work…

Posted by: JmuRiz Mar 27 2024, 10:19 AM

Good looking work!! Let me know if you plan on selling off the old shroud bits...if the red barn makes a new taller/wider version.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 27 2024, 10:45 AM

I am making a new shroud. The previous one wasn't close enough (size-wise) that it was worth trying to mod, it's too nice to cut up, makes a complete "kit" for the old cooler, etc., etc.


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 27 2024, 11:17 AM

Damn that is looking so nice; thank you Chris.

Posted by: JmuRiz Mar 27 2024, 11:30 AM

Wow, good looking preview shot. I like!

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 29 2024, 05:00 PM

Shroud top, beading added, awaiting final trimming. Remember, it'll get covered with Perlon, just like the earlier version. Still, we want the part to be as nice as possible for Michael!


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Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 30 2024, 06:24 AM

Looks like that will.work nicely

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 30 2024, 06:49 AM

Amazing work Chris- Thank you.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 30 2024, 03:18 PM

Final trimming nearly complete.


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Posted by: Shivers Mar 30 2024, 03:44 PM

That is really nice.

Posted by: fiacra Mar 30 2024, 03:48 PM

How funny! I saw that and then, probably like most people, I assumed you had done that for a reason. The problem is that I just automatically assume that as much time as you put into design, and as innovative as you are, that this was done for a purpose this mere mortal couldn't comprehend. Now that I know you're human I'll start questioning everything you do (like putting a Ferrari engine in a Porsche )

Posted by: East coaster Mar 30 2024, 04:56 PM

Looks great! Are the sides to be welded to mechanical connection?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 30 2024, 05:19 PM

Jesus...that looks great!

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 30 2024, 05:50 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Michael - Glad you like it! But wait until it's all done and sanded: here's a sneak peek after a few minutes with the d/a.


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 31 2024, 06:53 AM

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 1 2024, 02:54 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=487 Welded. But I don't trust my AL welding skills on someone else's stuff so I called in the cavalry in the form of Martin.
Here's an artsy-fartsy shot with the master at work with Michael's car serving as a back drop. Then one of the shroud in place. Nearly done!


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 1 2024, 03:03 PM

I could never thank Chris and Martin enough. This is just next-level beautiful. Thank you Chris and Martin .

Posted by: East coaster Apr 1 2024, 05:04 PM

Very nice!

Posted by: Root_Werks Apr 2 2024, 12:52 PM

Moving right along for sure! Big six in a non-flared 914 will be cool. Sleeper for sure.

Posted by: roundtwo Apr 2 2024, 09:06 PM

Santa’s helpers knocking it out of the park. Looks profesh for sure and no doubt functional when it’s complete.

Michael, do you know how you’re going to get power to the fans yet?
Curious to see if you need to add a new circuit.

Posted by: Steve Apr 2 2024, 09:39 PM

Amazing work!! Congrats!!

Posted by: KELTY360 Apr 2 2024, 10:37 PM

The top of that shroud just screams for a Red Barn decal!

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 4 2024, 07:20 AM

For those who may enjoy seeing how I made that shroud:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=388VwDuNM3A

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 4 2024, 08:20 AM

I just watched Chris' magic; I am left without words. I am blessed to count Chris as a good friend. His skills are just crazy, off the scale. I can't believe how nice the whole shroud/oil cooler set-up looks. We will powder coat everything and cover the shroud in Perlon to match the bulkhead. We are going to pick my car up Sunday and I can't wait to see it. Thank you Chris for doing this project and making it way, way, way nicer than any GT-style oil cooler/shroud I have ever seen. I doubt the factory would have even come close to this level of perfection.

Posted by: burton73 Apr 4 2024, 10:44 AM

Always enjoyable to see the work and process at the Red Barn!
Michael, your baby is getting much closer.
Bravo too everybody involved.

Best Bob B

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 8 2024, 08:34 AM

OK, we picked up my car from Chris ( @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 ) at The Red Barn yesterday. His work is absolutely stunning - pictures do not do it justice. I feel so lucky he accepted the oil cooler upgrade project as well as making the new attachment plates for my retractible seatbelts and welding them in. Every time my brother and I took my Six somewhere, we wished we had retractible belts. I am pretty sure we all heard a huge sigh of relief from Chris when we loaded it into the trailer yesterday.

Now my car is in Greg T's shop; where we will finish the project with the 3.6 install. I say "we" but let's be honest, I am the "gopher" as he works. I get to do little stuff, easy stuff, he is the mastermind. I consider myself lucky to have Greg as a good friend; we always have a good time in his shop. I love learning, and like Chris, Greg is an excellent teacher. His skills as a mechanic and body-man are outstanding. If you were at Werks Reunion last year, and saw the stunning Willow Green 914-6 GT parked a few cars down from my car, that is Greg's. I would argue that is his resume, and it speaks volumes.

BTW, here is a picture showing my old oil cooler in front of my new, larger, oil cooler. It is, I would guess, 25% larger. I am hoping between that size increase, the 3 fans, the digital thermostat and the beautiful shroud, we will not have any oil temperature issues.

Finally, here is my car in Greg's shop. Stay tuned as the project starts the next chapter.
I will endeavor to document all aspects of the swap and post here. Like my full build thread, (see my signature) I do this so everyone can see what it takes and how it can be done. I hope that makes the job easier for anyone who decides to do some or all of this to their car.

Posted by: Steve Apr 8 2024, 09:04 AM

Nice man cave!! I need to down size. My garage is two cars and wall to wall shelves with boxes of crap. Future retirement project!!

Posted by: mepstein Apr 8 2024, 10:02 AM

Stock 964/993 cars only have the one front cooler and they have 1k more lbs to push around. I bet your car works great.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 8 2024, 10:29 AM

Thanks Mark. I hope that is the case; but, we have a "Plan B" if we need it.

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 8 2024, 11:14 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 "I am pretty sure we all heard a huge sigh of relief from Chris when we loaded it into the trailer yesterday."
Yes, yes, you did! That was a fun project and I'm honored to contribute to your build but working around a car that nice made me a nervous wreck!
Thankfully, it escaped unscathed! I can't wait to see it after Greg works his magic.

Posted by: roundtwo Apr 9 2024, 08:39 AM

Always an entertaining and educational experience to stop by the red barn. I really enjoyed the vids and seeing the mods along the way. Given that one of my next projects is similar to this one, I’m super excited to pilfer Chris’s latest intellectual capital

I’ll get a hold of your office staff to reserve bay #2 before it’s filled
Seriously, well done.

Hoping you’ll share the next steps Mike particularly how you’re going to wire everything. Are the fans going to be controlled by an oil thermostat or simple on off switch, or …?


@cairo95507
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241

Posted by: roundtwo Apr 9 2024, 08:51 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 9 2024, 09:25 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - The honor was all mine. I really am thankful to have friends like you. This is a great community.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=23905 Hi Todd, We are installing an oil temperature digital thermostat as well as an on/off switch. So best of both worlds in the event you want to ignore the oil temperature ( never do) or just turn the fans on if sitting in traffic. We will be posting the whole process with pictures, unless I get to excited and forget to photo something.

Posted by: roundtwo Apr 9 2024, 04:42 PM

Great news. Can’t wait to see what you come up with. I noticed your oil thermostat is in front and mine in the rear by the oil tank. It’ll be interesting to see what you do with your thermometer/ temp switch.

Keep up the progress!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 9 2024, 06:15 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=23905 - Todd, That oil line thermostat in the front trunk is moving to the engine compartment where it belongs.

Posted by: Krieger Apr 9 2024, 11:07 PM

Good choice! I was at Chris's Saturday and noticed that. Some oil always flows through a Mocal thermostat but that pretty far. Your car is soooo nice!

Posted by: roundtwo Apr 9 2024, 11:12 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104
Good to know the previous owner on my vehicle did something right.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 10 2024, 06:37 AM

I know, right?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 10 2024, 05:29 PM

Today we removed the oil cooler thermostat and flushed the GT hard lines and sealed them up. We located the spot on the driver's side of the lower firewall for the thermostat and this Saturday, (hopefully) we will mount that and plumb all of the front lines for the cooler and connect some lines, not all, to the thermostat.

Our next step, I brought the cherry picker home, is to take the motor to Greg's and get all of the engine tin cut and fabricated. Once that is done I will take all of the tins and the front oil cooler parts and shroud to the powder coater and get that all done in satin black.

Here are some very exciting (not) pictures from today:

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 14 2024, 06:09 AM

Made a little bit of progress- relocated Mocal thermostat to the engine compartment, on lower firewall, where the brake proportioning valve once lived. Fits nice and should work well. Also ordered the AN-12 fittings we will need to make up the lines.

Then installed the 3.6 fuel pump under the passenger side engine shelf. It is an odd looking thing, but hopefully will be very happy in that location. Oh, don't fret over the fuel lines you see that are pieced together- we will replace all that with the good stuff and not a bunch of pieces.

Taking the 3.6 and transaxle to Greg's on Wednesday so we can check clearances and begin cobbling together the engine tins. I am pretty excited to get that done.

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 14 2024, 08:51 AM

Progress! Gonna be a ripper...

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 14 2024, 09:06 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712
Just FYI, i was told that the 3.6L fuel pump doesn't suck the same way our old FI fuel pumps suck and that it needed to be mounted close to the tank.
Supposedly they are much better at pushing than they are at sucking.

Which is why i mounted mine under the tank close to the bottom outlet.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=44700&view=findpost&p=906806

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 14 2024, 09:22 AM

Ohhhhh noooooo; we shall have to look into that. Thanks for the heads-up Andy- much appreciated.

Posted by: East coaster Apr 14 2024, 09:29 AM

On my 3.6 I used the 75-76 mount/cover to mount my fuel pump under the tank just like stock later cars. It worked great and 3.6 pump mounted right up to it. Bonus is that it’s easy to access if needed.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 14 2024, 11:07 AM

I just happen to know where I can get my hands on one of those late model mounts....

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 14 2024, 11:10 AM

You can get the pump mount kits new from Restoration Designs - part # PP318P.


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 15 2024, 09:00 AM

I confirmed the 993 has the fuel pump under the gas tank as well. So... two steps forward 1 step backward. We shall address that.

Posted by: Steve Apr 15 2024, 09:15 AM

I plan on using the same 044/GT3 pump that I used with my 3.2 mounted in the same 75 location as before.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 15 2024, 12:08 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 Lucky; 1 less issue to deal with.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 17 2024, 07:58 PM

Started on the engine modifications today and had a lot of fun. Greg replaced the badly damaged engine wiring harness with a nice new OEM harness. Then swapped out the stock fan belt setup for the Clewett Serpentine system (damn that's a beautiful piece) it's a shame no one will ever see it once it is in the car. We also moved the fuel pump to the front under the tank- fits quite nicely. Then moved the fuel filter from within the engine compartment to under the engine shelf. One less thing in the engine compartment.

I did a little cleanup on the engine- but it was pretty tidy to begin with. I was very impressed and please to see the top of the engine was spotless when we pulled the alternator/fan assembly out. I blew it put, but only a little dust came out. I was thankful we had no nests or piles of nuts in there!

I think the next step is to replace the hydraulic valve lifters, I got a set of OEM ones just because the engine has sat for so long. Then we will get the engine tins done so that can get sent off to powder coat along with the fan shroud and electric fan assemble.



[attachmentid=908276]

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 17 2024, 08:51 PM

That serpentine set up is beautiful. Nice progress!

Posted by: Spoke Apr 18 2024, 05:29 AM

I'm thinking about doing that conversion on my 930. Are there any details on better grip? I'm installing the electric AC system and have the high output alternator installed. Just wondering if the flat belt is better than the OEM V-belt.

Posted by: Luke M Apr 18 2024, 05:32 AM

What's your plan on the engine mount? Are you planning on modifying the factory 6 mount or aftermarket source? Did you run into any issues with the serpentine setup with the factory mount ? I've been eye balling that setup for my engine build but I think the mount needs some trimming done to it. As always great job and keep at it.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 18 2024, 06:21 AM

Thanks Chris and Luke. I checked with James Patrick (PMS) about my stock 6 motor mount and he assured me it would not be a problem. He says they run them with no issues with big motors.

From the way the serpentine kit installs, I do not believe it will creat any issues. But, until we install the motor mount on the engine, during the next work session, I am not sure.

My brother (jokingly) suggested I finish the firewall area in front of the fan with a chrome panel so you could see the reflection of the Serpentine Belt kit. It is a cool set up and that belt with the tensioner should be perfect.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 18 2024, 06:43 AM

Just my .02, but I think the stock /6 mount is inadequate for a big six. The extra torque makes more twisting on the stock mount. I don't like it. Something like the Rich Johnson mount or the NaroEscape mount spreads the load out farther and on two separate mounts.


The serpentine belt kit is the bomb on a 914-6 conversion. I have one on my 4.0L motor, and it makes changing the belt on the roadside a 10 minute operation rather than 2 hours of trying to fit shims blindly. One word of caution though. Sometimes the alternator won't start charging after startup until you blip the throttle.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 18 2024, 06:52 AM

Thanks Clay. I will call James and speak with him about the mount again to be sure. The reason I spoke with him about it initially, was I had the same concern about the torque of the motor and the stock 6 mount.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 18 2024, 07:10 AM

One other thing.

I don't know if the stock six mount will fit with the serpentine pulley. And even if it does, it may not have enough clearance to put a new belt on the pulley without removing the mount.

You should check it before you get it in the car.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 18 2024, 08:02 AM

Will do.

Posted by: technicalninja Apr 18 2024, 08:36 AM

4 times the torque capability and 1/3 of the rotation friction...

It's why NO ONE uses V belts anymore!

Serps have been around 3 decades. For the last 2 decades it's been nothing but serps...
Even factory superchargers run a wide serpentine. They used to run Gilmer belts (like a timing belt). Serps solved this issue.

Clay's note of having to accelerate the alternator through "thermal cut in" the very first time is usually an indication of rotational speed reduction. The pully system is more "under-drive" than the original stock set up.

This sucks balls for a grocery getter that never exceeds 2500 rpm.

For a sports car that might see 7500 RPM it is "THE WAY" and should be applied.
You have to rev it up a bit on startup...

Thats what the loud pedal is for anyway!

I'm betting Clay's big six on startup is a symphony for a car guy!

Not so much for his neighbors...

Posted by: Root_Werks Apr 18 2024, 08:58 AM

Not to hijack the thread, but the conversation around V-belt and the Serpentine belt is interesting.

There was a really good write-up (can't find it of course) on the VW Bug cooling limits. Folks thought the fan and tin were limited when it was actually the V-belt. Testing showed it started to slip around 4500rpm and would only turn the fan so fast. A change to a serpentine belt greatly increased the 4000+ rpm cooling.

Would imagine the 911 would be similar?

Posted by: Root_Werks Apr 18 2024, 09:00 AM

Found it:

http://www.offroadvw.net/tech/wes/fan.html

Posted by: technicalninja Apr 18 2024, 10:36 AM

Thanks!

That link was interesting...

We experienced cavitation on an RX3 ITA car in the cooling system.

The rotary engine had hardened pined stationary gears and could run up to 11K.

The water pump could NOT!

Massive underdrive solved the high RPM issues but slow RPM use would overheat the car after the change.

It's always a tradeoff...

Nice to know running a gaseous fan faster doesn't do the same thing.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 19 2024, 07:49 AM

When leaving the house for an early morning event, I usually push the car to the street before lighting it off. And I idle my way out of the neighborhood. I may like the sound, but supertrapps at 6 am are an "acquired taste".

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 19 2024, 05:38 PM

I have GOT to hear those!

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 20 2024, 05:07 AM

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the headers and supertrapps are going the way of the dodo with the flat fan installation. I am going to 993 heat exchangers and a custom exhaust that will exit in the stock location. (yes, I want HEAT in the car!) I never liked the supertrapps. They were just a quick and dirty way to get the car running for Okteenerfest.

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 20 2024, 06:01 AM

Heat is a good thing. Specifically in the early morning heading back from the RRC. Approaching the Johnson Eisenhower tunnels and it's cold enough to start snowing. Cold and scary with worn out 255/50 rear rubber

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 24 2024, 07:11 AM

Spent the day getting oil lines sorted; still a little more to do on that but we should wrap up the lines on Friday.

Then Greg ( ) tackled the engine tins using Ben's tins- beautiful pieces BTW ( @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 ). Got both sides and the rear fitted. We still need to add the holes from the 993 tin for the plug wires to the new tins and do some final fitting. Friday we should get the last piece (front of the engine) done. Then the stuff I have for powder coat can all get sent off.

Posted by: East coaster Apr 24 2024, 07:42 AM

Looks great! This is bringing back memories from when I did mine 18 years ago….time flies!

Posted by: Steve Apr 24 2024, 08:05 AM

Awesome job! Looks great!!

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 24 2024, 08:59 AM

I case you haven't seen this yet:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=44700&view=findpost&p=904651

I used the stock 993 grommet holes for the plug wires and the sensor wires and just riveted them into the sheet-metal.

It looks a bit rough in the pictures but turned out nice once it was powder-coated.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 24 2024, 02:30 PM

Hi Andy - Yes sir; saw how you did your tins and we will do the same for the spark plug wires. Thanks for the link.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 27 2024, 07:06 AM

Spent some more time yesterday and finished up as much of the oil lines as possible without the motor in place. Then Greg got the rear and side engine tins wrapped up. Today we will finish the front engine tin so I can get everything to the powder coater.

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 27 2024, 07:44 AM

Looking REEEEEEEEALY good, Michael!
(That Greg guy does OK work... )

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 28 2024, 06:43 AM

Thanks Chris; yes, Greg is very talented, does beautiful work and tolerates my "assistance". [attachmentid=909300]. He wrapped up the engine tins yesterday and they go to powder coat Monday along with a couple other parts. I have to say, the tins came out beautiful-thank you very much Greg. I can't wait to see them after powder coating. Here is a picture of where we mounted the oil cooler thermostat using an existing mounting point from the brake proportioning valve.

[attachmentid=909300]




























Attached image(s)

Posted by: Luke M Apr 30 2024, 08:59 AM

How did the factory 6 engine mount workout with the 3.6 and new belt setup?

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 1 2024, 07:33 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=6113 M - Hi Luke- We had to modify the factory 6 mount, (engine side) a little bit. The relief cut was to remove a bit of material where it bulges out so the pulley/belt would clear. We then added in material to tie it all back together and be strong again. In reality, bolting it in place keeps it together, but we wanted to be sure it was solid. Other then that, if fits perfectly with the Clewett serpentine belt system.

Yesterday, after considering the brake setup I had, we swapped out the 23MM master cylinder for a 19mm ATE. The 23 was good but gave me a very high, hard pedal. Replaced it and bled/flushed the system and the pedal is great now. The 23mm is really ideal for a 4-piston caliper setup- I have 914-6 GT rear calipers and '88 Carrera front calipers with 24mm rotors. I am looking forward to driving and seeing how they work now.

We got the engine tins back from powder coat and they came out beautiful. We installed the flywheel and clutch package. Then we replaced the hydraulic valve lifters. I just wanted to be sure we would not have any issues with lifters. The stock lifters, after sitting in the engine since '97 without running, upon inspection showed the rubber O-ring had hardened. The new ones are an improved design with a sort of teflon ring. They went right in; we installed new valve cover gaskets and hardware and that is done.

We also stripped the rubber boot off the 3.6 fan shroud part to add the "Mickey Mouse" ears that PMS offers so we will still have heat. I have to say, stripping the rubber off that part was a pain. Now I need to send the "ears" off to powder coat so it matches the tins.

OH, and for those "Porsche tax" followers, I was missing the small rubber "gasket" which fits into a slot on the outside of the cam chain box covers- straight piece of rubber with a channel that accepts the engine tin where it sits against the chain box cover. In Post 192, the last picture, shows the chain box cover with the engine tin slipped into the slot on the cover where the rubber gasket belongs. It actually looks like a wiper blade refill with a grove. I thought surely it would only be $10..... well $132 later I have those 2 small pieces of rubber coming from Porsche. That was with my PCA, AARP, AAA, Old Dude, and good customer discount.... man, Porsche, really?

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 1 2024, 10:56 AM

You may have cleared the pulley, but did you leave enough room to get the belt past the front edge of the pulley?

Have you tried to put a new belt on the motor with the front mount bolted to it? Remember, on the side of the road, you will be doing this way down in a hole on the front of the motor. Yes, it is easier than changing the pulley shims, but I would suggest checking now to insure the clearance is there.

Mine is really tight between the pulley and the motor mount.

BTDT.....

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 1 2024, 03:56 PM

Thanks Clay; I will check that out tomorrow.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 3 2024, 07:17 AM

OK, we got another day in and are moving along nicely with this swap. I really look forward to my days working (watching mostly) with Greg. Nothing seems to unsettle him when we face a challenge.

First, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 Clay is correct; the Serpentine belt likely will not slip in and out with the front motor mount in place. That would be a flatbed ride home should that belt fail. I do not see this thing failing- it is quite stout, but that is the way it goes. We could cut more off the front motor mount to provide extra clearance, but we looked at it and decided not to do that. The motor mount is now installed.

We also swapped out the outer CV/axle bolts as they were a mismatch of 6 and 12 point. One was really badly buggered up and it took some ingenuity to get it out. We tried a bolt extractor kit as the inside of the 6-point allen was stripped pretty badly. As we worked through several possible remedies and came up scratch, our good friend HB, (owns 2 914's and Greg will be assembling a 3.2 SS motor for one of them) said wrap some aluminum foil around the 6 point allen and hammer it into the allen bolt. Greg looked at him, went and got some aluminum foil and that made the difference- that sucker came right out. Kudos to HB . Now they are all the same and properly torqued.

We put juice to the system to trace some wires and I noticed my odometer was at 99301. Those are the original miles on my car and I made sure the new speedometer, (with the extra digit) carried over my existing mileage when we swapped in the 3.2. I thought that was cool as we are putting in a 993 motor.

We installed the new fuel filter under the engine shelf on the passenger side- it tucks up there nicely and gets it out of the engine compartment. We plumbed the fuel lines and wired up the fuel pump. The fuel lines, pump, etc., all work and fit nicely compared to what the fuel lines looked like with the 3.2. Why on earth would anyone piece together several small pieces of fuel line to supply the engine? That mess is out and now we have new lines and proper clamps. The wiring for the fuel pump is next-level greatness. Greg seems to enjoy wiring and making it appear factory correct.

I am hoping to be back at Greg's on Tuesday to keep progress moving along.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 3 2024, 08:06 AM

For those wondering, here are the dimensions of my front trunk louvers:

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20649 :

Posted by: Root_Werks May 3 2024, 09:30 AM

I've used the foil trick on 12pt bolts before. Can't remember where I learned about it, but it really does help.

Project is coming along nicely! Really goes to show the different levels on swap complexity and time. This thread got me thinking about the challenge level for each six configuration:

Early card'd - Not bad, not much modifying beyond a stock six
Early MFI - About the same as carbs, but little extra work for fuel plumbing
CIS - Moderate to get the CIS to fit and look good, rotate 180, move the engine latch, fuel "center" mounted etc
Early DME - Haven't done one of these yet, but know it's a bit more involved, ECU, wiring etc.
964 - This thread!

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 5 2024, 02:24 PM

Going to Greg's tomorrow, Monday, to continue work. I really wish I could be there for a week straight....he would probably throw me out... It's a lot of work putting up with me.

Posted by: technicalninja May 5 2024, 02:44 PM

Thanks for the aluminum foil tip on the 6/12 point internal stuff.

I'll try that from now on before cold chisel or Dremel cut off wheel solutions.

So simple!

I should have already know that!

Bad Ninja, Bad, Bad Ninja...



PS. The 911 looks interesting!
Include more pics of it if you can.
It looks as nice as your car...

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 5 2024, 04:15 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=27135 - Yeah that '74 is going to be real nice. It is Greg's and he has done it all - disassembly, stripping the shell, metal work, body work and paint. The motor is going to be an MFI motor of course. The interior will be next-level greatness too. I will start adding some photos of its progress as my car moves along. Greg is a very talented guy.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 7 2024, 06:52 AM

Yesterday we started with Greg replacing the distributor belt. Now "they" tell you that you can drift the pin out for the gear at the bottom of the shaft; I call BS on that. We tried for a good 20 minutes and that little sucker would not budge. We ended up drilling it out and that did the trick with no collateral damage. I ordered a new pin from Porsche along with 2 rotors for general principle. So belt replaced and distributor reassembled- save for the pin which is on the way.

We then installed the oil return fitting below the oil filter on the 3.6 - took about 3 minutes- strangely satisfying though.

Then we installed the modified fan shroud "Mickey Mouse" ears and coil bracket with coils. I still have to order the new decals for the coils.

Greg did the modification that allows you to rotate the throttle body downward- that was a bit stressful just because we were cutting the plastic bridges (3) between the upper and lower. Glad to report that was done and now we can rotate the throttle body down about 1" or so to be sure we can clear the engine lid.

Then we pulled out ALL the wiring harnesses for this motor to go into the car. We have 2 PMS harnesses and then the stock 993 car harness that connected to the engine harness and DME (with 22 connectors). We already replaced the engine harness with a factory new harness- that was about $110= best deal ever. In total, It's a whole lot of wires and connectors. We are working to figure out exactly what we need and what can be discarded. That will be a big project.

We also got the PMS throttle cable on the engine- I just need to order the clip that connects it to the throttle body.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 7 2024, 08:31 AM

If I may make a suggestion:

Rewire the DME relay socket to use 2 standard Bosch square relays.

Original DME relay wiring diagram:



Modified to accept two square Bosch relays:



The reason I suggest this is that the factory DME relay is notorious for failing at the wrong times. It is considered standard procedure to carry a spare because they are only available from the dealer or specialty supply places. If you rewire the harness to use two Bosch square relays, you can get them at FLAPS and there are solid state relays available that almost never fail.

You can also use the round relay sockets the same way. Then you can borrow a relay from the headlights if your DME quits.

I did this on my 964 DME setup. It works great.

Posted by: Steve May 7 2024, 08:32 AM

Looking good!! Almost there... Removing the ribs on the intake was stressful. I used tin snips for the center rib, since I couldn't get to it with my dremel tool. I was worried it would crack the tubes, but the tubes are pretty thick, so no problem. I also need to do the distributor drive belt. Thanks for sharing that procedure. There is also a nice write up for this on p-car and Pelican. https://p-car.com/diy/diy.html

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 7 2024, 05:47 PM

Thanks Clay and Steve.

Clay, I will share your thoughts with Greg regarding the relay wiring.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 Yeah, we followed the Pelican DIY re the distributor belt. It was a very good step-by-step. I suggest your order a pin for the gear before you tackle the belt. The ignition distributor shaft gear pin part number is: Part #: 930-602-922-00-OEM. I believe I ordered it through Pelican.

Cheers,
Michael

Posted by: 930cabman May 8 2024, 09:13 AM

How could anyone estimate the hours, $$ involved in any of these conversions?

It's kinda crazy, really

BTW: looking great and I am sure the finish product will rock

Posted by: SirAndy May 8 2024, 09:16 AM

It was really simple.
I purposely did not add up any of the costs so in my head i'm still convinced i did the whole conversion for less than $10k.

Posted by: 930cabman May 8 2024, 11:26 AM

How many sane people would put themselves through this -------- you fill in the blanks

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 8 2024, 03:27 PM

That's funny guys. Just the other day when we were working on it I looked at Greg and said, "What the F was I thinking? I had a perfect running 3.2 and decided to go through all of this? Greg laughed and agreed. He then said, "it's going to be bitchin' when finished". I sure hope so!

Posted by: 930cabman May 8 2024, 04:18 PM

Bitchin is good

Posted by: Gint May 11 2024, 03:03 PM

Can I see what those rubber pieces looks like?

Looking great!

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 11 2024, 05:21 PM

Hi @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20 . Yeah, here is a picture of one side, they are identical.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 11 2024, 05:31 PM

Didn't do much today. I did "install" the two stupid priced rubbers that the front engine tin fits into so it does not rattle and makes a good seal.

Then we installed the last piece of engine tin, the front (Fan) side- that completes the engine tins and I have to say they look great; Greg does nice work.

Then we began futzing around with the idle control valve that in its stock position sits right on top of the motor and looks like crap. So we are exploring relocating it under the intake or at the very least to the non-throttle side of the throttle body so it is not right in your face. We are going to source to 7/8" OD pipe and see if we can make a pipe that will allow us to move it. It pulls vacuum so a normal rubber hose would likely collapse.

Anyway, that was it for the day. We just kind of enjoyed lunch and then sat in the shade, like old men, and talked.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 11 2024, 05:32 PM

More:

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 12 2024, 05:57 AM

Nice air cleaner setup. But where is the Mass Airflow Sensor?

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 12 2024, 07:55 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 - Now that is a great question . The PMS boot which replaces the stock 993 boot has ports for "things". I doubt those are for the MAF sensor. I googled '95 993 3.6 Porsche MAF sensor and I don't think anything like that came with the engine as received. I will have to look into this on Tuesday when Greg and I next meet to work on this. And Clay, thanks for staying tuned in on this swap. I appreciate your expertise.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 12 2024, 08:00 AM

It isn't something that attaches to the ports for "things".

The MAF sensor goes between the air cleaner and the throttle body. It has to be there for the engine to run.



The factory motronic won't work without it unless you do major modifications to it.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 12 2024, 08:17 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 OK, that helps a lot. I will find one if we do not have it sitting somewhere. I checked the pictures I have of the engine as purchased and it did not have the MAF on it. I have reached out to the seller to see if it may be sitting around in his shop. Thanks again Clay.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 12 2024, 08:40 AM

Probably still attached to the air filter assembly. And you don't need the air filter assembly, it won't fit in a 914. The DME harness should have a round plug that connects to it.

If you can't get the MAF, then you can buy one. They are about $200.00.

And you will need to hook the idle air motor in after the MAF.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 12 2024, 09:20 AM

Great; thank s again Clay.

Posted by: Steve May 12 2024, 09:40 AM

I attached the air flow sensor to the air cleaner. The MAF and air cleaner is 3.5”. The 3.2 PMS elbow and throttle body is 3”. I’m debating on extending the elbow like Sir Andy did, so I can run the idle control valve hose on top versus the bottom. Plenty of 3” intake stuff at O’Reillys and auto zone to make it work. Regarding the 1” pipe from the 3.2 elbow to the idle control valve, I cut up left over hose from the smog pump and other left over parts to extend the hose. Curious if you have to lay the idle control valve flat. I’ve only seen them horizontal on 3.2 and 3.6 installs.

Spectre and Home Depot 3” adapters.

Posted by: SirAndy May 12 2024, 11:51 AM

MAF just in front of the air cleaner

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 12 2024, 06:59 PM

Cool, all good stuff. I heard back from the 3.6 seller (not Chris BTW) and he will check his shop for the MAF early this week and get back to me. Hopefully he can find it.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 14 2024, 06:47 PM

Today we put the distributor shaft gear pin in. You drive it in and it protrudes about 1/8" on either side. Greg used a punch and hit it to make the pin swell in the gear- that took about 1/8" of the excess off and then he ground the remainder. That puppy is not going to come out without drilling it out. We then put the new rotors on and installed the distributor after once again confirming both rotors are properly timed. Then we connected the coil wires and that was a wrap for the ignition.

Then we installed the new throttle cable clip- nice and easy.

Then we installed the new electric thermostat for the oil cooler and secured the lines to the trunk wall with a riv-nut. Nice and tidy. This thermostat will turn the fans on/off automatically. We are also going to wire switch with an LED indicator to override that in the event I want to manually turn them on/off.

Then we pulled out the transaxle to address a output shaft seal leak that we had been unable to completely stop. We installed a speedi-sleeve (Stoddard) on the output shaft and then a new seal on the transaxle and reassembled. It feels like it should not leak again- fingers crossed. Then I cleaned up the transaxle so it will be ready to install once we get the crankshaft ignition sensor bracket that we realized we were missing. Order that from Gaudin and hope to have it by the weekend. The we can install that and then install the transaxle.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 14 2024, 06:49 PM

More:

Posted by: Krieger May 14 2024, 10:28 PM

Looking good! Why does your transmission look so nice?

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 15 2024, 06:16 AM

Hi Andy, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 - Thanks; it's a coating Mike Lesniak (Dr. Evil) applied when he rebuilt it back in approx. 2016. All we did was spray it with brake clean, lightly brush and blow it off.

Posted by: burton73 May 15 2024, 08:26 AM

Michael, all I can say is outstanding as always. The level of finish on your car is amazing and I hope all of this on this work to move from the 3.2 to the 3.6 is going to make you very happy.

Best Bob B Burton

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 15 2024, 08:30 AM

Thanks Bob @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7414 I sure hope so. I was hoping to get the transaxle installed on the motor, but we discovered we were missing the bracket that holds the crank position sensor...always something. I am also tracking down the MAF and hope the seller can find it by the weekend. A new MAF is a few hundred dollars.

The next time we are at Greg's I want to give the engine compartment a quick detail so it is ready to accept the motor. Then we will do the front trunk as it is pretty dirty too. I think I can install the front bumper and valance at this point too.

Posted by: Gint May 17 2024, 07:32 PM

Thank you sir!

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 18 2024, 06:46 AM

Got a couple hours in yesterday. We were able to get the front valance and bumper back on the car. Easy peasy, but for me it was a big step to getting her back on the road. I also spent some time cleaning the engine compartment. I wiped it down with brake clean. The next time we are at Greg's I will ask my brother to touch up a couple small scratches in the engine compartment and then follow that with a coat of wax.

This morning we are headed off to pick up my MAF meter.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 18 2024, 07:45 AM

And just for a change of pace, here is what my car is sharing Greg's shop with. Pictures posted with Greg's permission.

Posted by: technicalninja May 18 2024, 09:01 AM

For engine compartment, wheel wells, underbody "wax" I use Poor Boys Wheel Sealant.

https://poorboysworld.com/wheel-sealant.html

This is designed to work as almost a "Teflon" type coating.

It doesn't really make stuff glossy. It's NOT a wax.

DO NOT USE on semi-flat of flat paint surfaces. They will NEVER be "right" again.

2 years down the road you can use air pressure to blow the dirt off.

Nothing STICKS at all...

Smells like bubblegum!

Easy to apply.

I've not found anything else that get close to the lifespan of this stuff.

A tub lasts me 5+ years

If you want to put anything on the paint don't use this stuff.

If you want nothing to ever stick this is the BOMB!

Thanks for the pictures of the 911.
Closeups are every bit a gorgeous as I expected it would be.

Posted by: 930cabman May 18 2024, 04:17 PM

Workmanship look great.

She is going to be a monster for sure

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 18 2024, 05:13 PM

Cool 911 with MFI. Love the color!

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 19 2024, 06:29 AM

I will pass that along to Greg Clay. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 I was wondering if anyone would catch the MFI manifold.

Picked up my MAF sensor yesterday. Yay! Thanks again for spotting that missing part Clay.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 20 2024, 03:30 PM

Hoping my order from Gaudin Porsche arrives tomorrow so we can work on that Wednesday. I would love to get the transaxle back with the engine.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 23 2024, 07:25 AM

Yesterday was a great progress day and we had a lot of fun in the process.

Greg installed the new crank position sensor with the new mounting bracket. Fits nice and looks proper too.

Then we installed the MAF sensor, it fits nicely, but I need to order a couple new clamps from RM European to wrap that up.

While Greg ran to the dentist I took the opportunity to clean the engine compartment for the eventual motor installation. It was not really bad, but it cleaned up nicely. Now, maybe in a couple weeks the motor will be in its new home.

While cleaning the engine compartment I remembered I still had the 3rd brake light flasher module installed that was living in the engine relay board area. I had turned it off about a year ago because Greg's wife saw it flashing when I applied the brakes and said, "Oh, that's annoying". I looked at it and realized she was 100% correct. I had originally bought a flasher module that would flash the 3rd brake light 1-2 times when the brakes were applied and then would not flash every time you applied the brakes if you were sitting in stop/go traffic as that would be really annoying. That module, sadly, was lost and another installed when my car was first reassembled. It flashed the 3rd brake light 5 times per application and did not have a stop/go traffic repeat delay. So now that the engine was out it was the perfect time to remove that module entirely- we did.

Then we put the transaxle back where it belongs - with the engine. We replaced the little plastic bits on the clutch fork arm, greased the throw out bearing and it all went together nicely. I was really pleased to see that happen as it means we really are getting close to getting them back in the car.

Then for a break in the action, Greg had 2 new 911 door-check pins sitting on his counter. He told me my pins, (plain looking steel with a hole for a pin to secure them) were loose and that was why my doors "clicked" when I opened and closed them. The new 911 pins were installed and my doors are nice and quiet when opening and closing. Sometimes it's the little stuff.

My headlight dimmer reostat was not working properly; it was more of an on/off situation. I sourced another early headlight switch and we swapped the old one out and the new one in and now everything works as new. It's not like I dim my dash lights, but it bugged me that the switch was not functioning properly.

Next Greg tackled the wiring for my oil cooler fans. We previously installed the Setbrab in-line thermostat for the fans. I wanted the fans to operate automatically - let's face it I am old and don't want to forget having to turn them on when the oil gets hot. But, I also wanted a manual switch to turn them on too. So we repurposed my rear window defroster switch, (the rear defroster did not work anyway) for that function. Greg is a terrific electrician technician (of course) and made this look simple aside from the contortionist positions required to get up under the dash as he is 6'3".

Our next tasks will be to sort the engine vacuum lines and hopefully start getting the electrical for the engine figured out so we can get the DME mounted in the car and get the wiring from the dash to the engine done. We also still have to make the idle control valve pipe so we can mount that where we want instead of the stock 993 location.

My brother and I are planning on attending the Diablo Region Wash 'n Shine at the Danville Livery (Sycamore and San Ramon Valley Blvd.) on Monday (Holiday). Greg has entered his Willow Green 914-6 GT. If you have not seen that beauty in person- I recommend trying to make it. It is always a well attended function. Now, I mention that event, as I really hope someone with a '95 993 in stock form is there too. We need to look and take pictures to sort my stuff. So I have my fingers crossed!

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 23 2024, 07:27 AM

Yesterday was a great progress day and we had a lot of fun in the process.

Greg installed the new crank position sensor with the new mounting bracket. Fits nice and looks proper too.

Then we installed the MAF sensor, it fits nicely, but I need to order a couple new clamps from RM European to wrap that up.

While Greg ran to the dentist I took the opportunity to clean the engine compartment for the eventual motor installation. It was not really bad, but it cleaned up nicely. Now, maybe in a couple weeks the motor will be in its new home.

While cleaning the engine compartment I remembered I still had the 3rd brake light flasher module installed that was living in the engine relay board area. I had turned it off about a year ago because Greg's wife saw it flashing when I applied the brakes and said, "Oh, that's annoying". I looked at it and realized she was 100% correct. I had originally bought a flasher module that would flash the 3rd brake light 1-2 times when the brakes were applied and then would not flash every time you applied the brakes if you were sitting in stop/go traffic as that would be really annoying. That module, sadly, was lost and another installed when my car was first reassembled. It flashed the 3rd brake light 5 times per application and did not have a stop/go traffic repeat delay. So now that the engine was out it was the perfect time to remove that module entirely- we did.

Then we put the transaxle back where it belongs - with the engine. We replaced the little plastic bits on the clutch fork arm, greased the throw out bearing and it all went together nicely. I was really pleased to see that happen as it means we really are getting close to getting them back in the car.

Then for a break in the action, Greg had 2 new 911 door-check pins sitting on his counter. He told me my pins, (plain looking steel with a hole for a pin to secure them) were loose and that was why my doors "clicked" when I opened and closed them. The new 911 pins were installed and my doors are nice and quiet when opening and closing. Sometimes it's the little stuff.

My headlight dimmer reostat was not working properly; it was more of an on/off situation. I sourced another early headlight switch and we swapped the old one out and the new one in and now everything works as new. It's not like I dim my dash lights, but it bugged me that the switch was not functioning properly.

Next Greg tackled the wiring for my oil cooler fans. We previously installed the Setbrab in-line thermostat for the fans. I wanted the fans to operate automatically - let's face it I am old and don't want to forget having to turn them on when the oil gets hot. But, I also wanted a manual switch to turn them on too. So we repurposed my rear window defroster switch, (the rear defroster did not work anyway) for that function. Greg is a terrific electrician technician (of course) and made this look simple aside from the contortionist positions required to get up under the dash as he is 6'3".

Our next tasks will be to sort the engine vacuum lines and hopefully start getting the electrical for the engine figured out so we can get the DME mounted in the car and get the wiring from the dash to the engine done. We also still have to make the idle control valve pipe so we can mount that where we want instead of the stock 993 location.

My brother and I are planning on attending the Diablo Region Wash 'n Shine at the Danville Livery (Sycamore and San Ramon Valley Blvd.) on Monday (Holiday). Greg has entered his Willow Green 914-6 GT. If you have not seen that beauty in person- I recommend trying to make it. It is always a well attended function. Now, I mention that event, as I really hope someone with a '95 993 in stock form is there too. We need to look and take pictures to sort my stuff. So I have my fingers crossed!









If you notice that little square black module (above) with the 3 wires, that is the 3rd brake light flasher we removed.

Posted by: Steve May 23 2024, 07:41 AM

Looking good!!

Posted by: tygaboy May 23 2024, 07:52 AM

That's a clean machine!

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 23 2024, 07:59 AM

Thanks Steve and Chris; I am getting pretty excited.

Here are a couple photos my brother took yesterday while we worked.

Posted by: technicalninja May 23 2024, 08:53 AM

I slot Cairo's car in the "Museum Piece" bracket.

Show only, no use application.

It REALLY looks too nice to drive!

I'd have that insured through Hagerty's for a significant valuation.

After the 3.6 is done 200K is not out of the question IMO.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-porsche-914-6-gt-build-with-3-6/

Posted by: 930cabman May 23 2024, 09:08 AM

The 901 looks tiny in comparison to the monster 3.6

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 23 2024, 09:36 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=27135 - Thanks for the extreme compliment; however, I actually drive this car regularly. It is not a trailer or garage queen. It was purpose built and I will continue to drive it as much as possible. We have put just under 10K miles on it since it returned to the road in August of '20.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 23 2024, 02:56 PM

You are going to have to redo the plumbing for the fuel system. On the 3.6, the fuel inlet is on one side of the motor, and the outlet is on the other side. The 914 fuel lines are on the same side of the motor.

So you either have to move the fuel return line to the left side of the the chassis, or rework the fuel plumbing on the engine to bring the return line back over to the passenger side.


Good Luck.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 23 2024, 05:35 PM

OK - one more thing to add to the list; good to know. Thank you Clay for keeping an eye on this so hopefully we avoid some of the pitfalls.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 23 2024, 05:50 PM

When I did my 964 motor, I rerouted the fuel lines on top of the engine so they both came out on the passenger side to match the existing fuel lines in the chassis. I would suggest that you do something like that. Most 964/993 engines need the fuel lines replaced anyway due to them becoming brittle with age.

Posted by: SirAndy May 23 2024, 08:07 PM

Aye, i forgot about that. I went with the stock location for the lines (Stainless from Tangerine) and then extended the supply line across the rear trunk wall (above the engine) to the driver side using metal tubing similar to the Tangerine lines.

Kinda hard to explain, let me see if i can find any pics.

Posted by: SirAndy May 23 2024, 08:12 PM

From here




to here



to here





which is also where i added the fuel filter, right before it feeds into the injection rails

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 24 2024, 07:12 AM

We will definitely look at this the next time we get to work on it. Thank you again Clay @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 and Andy @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 for helping us out.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 24 2024, 07:20 AM

I tool the pressure line on top of the engine apart and rebuilt it with new hose. When I did, I flipped the center section so the fitting was on the side next to the battery tray. If you look close, you can see it in this picture.



It is between the two rear intake runners,and under the injector rail.

Posted by: 930cabman May 24 2024, 09:08 AM

Is that a Gatorade economy catch can?

what flavor

Posted by: SirAndy May 24 2024, 12:13 PM

"Misty Oil with a hint of Brackish Dew"

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 26 2024, 11:53 AM

Just ordered the cylinder head temperature sensor; hope it arrives quickly. I can't believe I did not notice that before.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 26 2024, 12:20 PM

Yea.. you're gonna need that.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 28 2024, 07:41 AM

Yesterday, Greg, my brother and I went to the Diablo Region PCA Wash 'n Shine at the Danville Livery (Sycamore Valley Rd and San Ramon Valley Blvd). It was a terrific day with perfect weather. There were a whole lot of Porsches in attendance. Amazingly, only 2 993 cars attended, a '98 and a '96. We needed a '95 OBD 1 car.

Fortunately, Alex had reached out to me and said he had a '95 993 and lived in San Ramon. He was only 7 miles from the car show. Greg and I drove to his home and saw his absolutely stunning and pristine 993 Coupe with about 60K miles on it. We were able to take photos and look at harness routing. That will certainly help us get one step closer to getting the engine installed. Thank you very much Alex.

Here are some pictures:

Posted by: Steve May 28 2024, 08:01 AM

I am guessing we don't need the heater fan blower sensor or the charcoal canister valve assembly? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 where did you plumb the charcoal canister connections? Normally one goes to the shroud and one goes to the air cleaner. On the 993 it goes through a valve assembly that connects to the intake manifold.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 28 2024, 10:31 AM

You are going to need the charcoal canister solenoid to keep the DME from setting codes. And you can plumb that back into the 914 charcoal canister system.

The 914 charcoal canister system is a blow through system. The 993 charcoal canister is a suck through system. You hook the line for the charcoal canister that originally hooked to the fan shroud and hook it to the air cleaner Hook the other line to the 993 charcoal canster valve that connects to the intake.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 28 2024, 12:38 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 & @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 . What does the charcoal canister solenoid look like? I am thinking I do not have one.... But I do have the original charcoal canister in my trunk though. Just have to run new lines to it as it was terminated in the front fender when we had the 3.2 in the car.

Posted by: SirAndy May 28 2024, 03:37 PM

I honestly don't remember ...

Posted by: Steve May 28 2024, 04:19 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712
He’s referring to this hose and solenoid. I will put mine back. Thanks Clay!

Here’s a picture of where it connects on the top of the panel.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 28 2024, 07:42 PM

Cool; I may have that. We are back at it tomorrow, so I will look and see. Thanks guys.

Posted by: Steve May 28 2024, 10:37 PM

75 cars have the charcoal canister in the engine compartment and run one hose from the tank versus two if you mount the charcoal canister on the gas tank. My charcoal canister fits perfect between the battery tray and the firewall. Just depends if you want a factory look. Did your car come with a charcoal Canister? I read the real sixes had a “T” that connected the tank overflow to the vapor hose out the bottom of the car.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 29 2024, 06:21 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 Yes, my car came with a charcoal canister mounted on top of the gas tank.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 29 2024, 09:01 AM

This may help you:



Basically hook the diaphragm valve to the charcoal canister line that went to the air cleaner, and hook the other one to the 911 air cleaner. The reason for doing it this way is the charcoal canister has to have the correct airflow direction to work properly. Hooking it up like this makes sure the airflow is correct in the canister.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 30 2024, 07:03 AM

Yesterday we were able to make the "pipe" that will be the idle control valve hook-up. Made it out of 1" SS mandrel bends. Greg welded it and it is going to relocate the idle control valve down below the intake, near where the cruise control module once lived. We just wanted to get that off the top of the motor for aesthetics.

Then we pulled out the 993 harness that came with the engine, to connect the DME, engine harness and the car. After spending over 2 hours looking at wiring schematics for the '95 993 3.6, the only 2 connections that are correct are the knox sensors. We started looking up wiring colors and nothing matches the harness we have. In then end, we believe we do not have a 993 harness. We were able to identify a few plugs that are correctly colored for a 964. I contacted the seller (not Chris) and he said "that's the harness I got with the motor". He did say he would check his inventory of parts and see if he had another harness. Fingers crossed that he just gave me the wrong harness. Very frustrating as we had hoped to be able to get most of the wiring sorted yesterday.

I am also going to reach out to a custom harness maker and see what that would look like.

Anyway, if it was easy, everyone would do it. We shall get this sorted.

Posted by: SirAndy May 30 2024, 08:44 AM

Hard to tell from the picture but make sure you still have enough room for the crank case venting hose that also needs to go down there.

The custom pipe looks really nice! I might steal that idea.

Posted by: Steve May 30 2024, 12:14 PM

Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 Is the diaphragm a 964 part? We just have a control solenoid on the motor. Where is the diaphragm at on a 1995 993?

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 30 2024, 02:51 PM

The 993 uses a slightly different system. I don't think it is compatible with the 914 charcoal canister. Just get the 964 diaphragm valve and hook it up like a 964.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 30 2024, 03:24 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 - When making the "pipe" we allowed for the crank case breather hose. . Nice looking out though.

Posted by: Steve May 30 2024, 04:52 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 is the part number 928-110-429-09-OEM ? Porsche Fuel Tank Breather Valve. It looks like the correct part.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 31 2024, 11:53 AM

Just bought the correct '95 993 3.6 harness; should have it in my hands by Tuesday. YAY!

Posted by: mepstein May 31 2024, 12:33 PM

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 31 2024, 01:20 PM

I don't know. Mine came with the intake system I bought.

Clay

Posted by: Steve May 31 2024, 01:47 PM

It looks correct based on my research. I ordered one from Pelican. Thanks for the help!!

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 31 2024, 01:55 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 Please send me a picture so I can see if I need one too.

Posted by: Steve May 31 2024, 04:53 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Here is a link to the part from Pelican. https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/92811042909.htm?pn=928-110-429-09-OEM&bc=c&SVSVSI=0643

It's a 964 part, but it does make sense according to Clay and from what I have read. Clay says without it the DME will throw an error. It looks pretty simple to connect up.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 1 2024, 05:56 AM

The DME will throw an error if you don't hook up the solenoid valve. But it is very simple to hook up the rest of it and have the emissions evap system working. Plus it make your garage not smell of eau-de-petrol.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 3 2024, 07:42 AM

My cylinder head temperature sensor arrived. Hopefully my "new-to-me" 993 harness arrives tomorrow.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 4 2024, 06:25 AM

Yay!!! My chassis harness arrived; Wednesday we get to see what we can make of it.

Posted by: rick 918-S Jun 4 2024, 10:15 AM

Dissecting a wiring harness can be a daunting task.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 6 2024, 05:51 AM

We made some great progress on the wiring harness and the vacuum lines. What a difference the correct '95 3.6 harness makes! We started by connecting the MAF sensor and amazingly a lot of wires just kind of fell into place. We did lengthen the Idle Control Valve wires as we have moved that from on top of the engine to below the intake at the rear of the motor. The connectors we could not intuitively figure out we used the wiring diagram and sorted those.

The vacuum lines, and man, there is a lot of them, all made sense with a vacuum diagram. I think we have 2 vacuum lines that are still not connected but we know where they go.

We also routed the distributor "ozone" vent tube to what we felt was a good place.

I think in a couple weeks we should have it in the car.

Cylinder head temperature sensor. Don't worry, we routed it through the tin with a nice grommet to protect it.


What the heck is this and what does it do? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822

Posted by: Steve Jun 6 2024, 06:20 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Unplug that goofy resistor. That’s part of the auxiliary heater fan
Otherwise, looking good!! Congrats!! Almost there!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 6 2024, 06:24 AM

Great. Thank you Steve; I appreciate the help.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 7 2024, 05:20 AM

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 7 2024, 08:30 AM

Steve and Clay @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 - Thank you both so much for keeping us on the right track. We are getting closer and closer to being able to get the engine installed.

I just had the oil cooler shroud covered in Perlon (like the previous one was) and it came out great. I do not want to button that up until after we get her fired up and check for leaks

Posted by: friethmiller Jun 7 2024, 08:48 AM

Just enjoying your journey!

Posted by: Root_Werks Jun 7 2024, 09:38 AM

Exactly what I was thinking!

Posted by: tygaboy Jun 7 2024, 12:28 PM

Hey! Let's see some pics of that shroud!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 9 2024, 07:18 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Hi Chris- here you go:







I have to say, this shroud came out great. Thanks again to Chris for his mad fabrication skills and willingness to tackle this project.

Posted by: tygaboy Jun 9 2024, 07:40 AM

Michael - That looks great! Thanks for the pics.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 9 2024, 07:57 AM

Yesterday Greg and I, (really Greg) got the steel fuel line installed that takes fuel from the passenger side, (where we located the fuel filter) to the drivers side where the fuel rail input is located on the 3.6. Greg secured the line with nice rubber insulated clamps to keep it safe and secure. Now we need fittings to complete the fuel lines where they connect to the engine and fuel filter.

Then we tackled the "Mickey Mouse ears" we got from Patrick Motorsports. If I am being honest, I was utterly disappointed with this product. This PMS part sits atop the engine fan shroud where it is very visible, and connects the heater air supply tubes to the heat exchangers to get heat into the car. As received, this was a horrible fit. Both of the heater connection ports were poorly positioned, (IMHO ) unless you wanted these heater tubes to look like some kind of wild tentacle abomination coming out the top of the engine. We decided to modify the right side (looking at the motor) to allow the hose to connect at a much lower angle to better fit the engine. The left side however, was far worse. That port was pointing almost straight up! All PMS had to do was rotate it 90 degrees and it would have been 100% better, allowing the heater tube to lay closer to the engine and look much better. Greg cut it off, rotated it, shortened it and welded it back on. Greg looked at the under side of this piece and you could see a good 3/8" of overlap from the mounting plate, obstructing the port; that was how it was received. This is designed to flow air- Greg "ported" both openings so they are smooth and unobstructed - it just looks right now- even though it will never be seen. This is more important, given the next change.

Then we had one more issue re the heat exchanger supply lines.... the hole through the engine tin is partially obstructed by the 3.6 design. Now our cars typically run 60mm heater tube. The 911 SC cars ran a 50mm heater tube and they also used a really nice reducer to go from 60mm to 50mm. We sourced some of those, (factory Porsche part) and bought 50mm hose. Now the tubes fit through the engine tin access holes with no problem. The added benefit is it also looks a whole lot nicer on the engine. We shot the Mickey Mouse ears black and put them on the engine and mocked up the lines- we both liked it and will call that done. Once everything is really dry we will permanently install the hoses and clamps.

Now don't get me wrong, I appreciate PMS making all these parts for the engine-swap crowd; I just wish in this case they would have spent an extra 10 minutes to look at it and make aesthetics a bigger part of the design calculus.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 9 2024, 08:09 AM

Some additional pics my brother took- thank you Bob.

So, they look like Mickey Mouse ears, right?









Whose idea was this????




For a nice change of pace, a beautiful '74 with a special motor. One of Greg's cars and it shows.


Finally, that's the end of the day

Posted by: Steve Jun 9 2024, 09:04 AM

Awesome thinking outside the box on this continuous challenge. Looks much better. The Mickey Mouse ears reminds me more of Hell boy. I Installed mine, but covered them up for now and blocked the holes. I will initially be running 1 3/4” MSDS headers and maybe seat heaters. I was also thinking it might be better to run a stock 914-4 heater fan to run the heat exchangers instead of the ears.

Posted by: technicalninja Jun 9 2024, 10:08 AM

I "see" Tusken Sand Raider in the micky mouse ears...

I've been watching but not commenting.

The work is exquisite and doesn't require my opinions.

NICE!

Posted by: mb911 Jun 9 2024, 10:26 AM

Looking good. Isn’t amazing how we never leave these cars alone. My car is currently sort of running off megasquirt. Last year it ran pretty decent on carbs but I can’t leave well enough alone

Posted by: Shivers Jun 9 2024, 10:29 AM

I have really enjoyed watching the "It takes a Village" progression of this project. Every little thing has been tidy. A beautiful job

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 9 2024, 11:32 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Yeah, we had another Steve who did not like the Mouse ears and suggested we run a 4-cylinder electric fan. I just did not want to add another component to the engine bay- I am trying to keep it uncluttered. I think with the modified "ears" we are going to be happy and it should function fine.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 14 2024, 06:44 AM

The engine is in the car. It actually slipped right in without much bother. Greg had to loosen the engine tin on passenger side to get her in. We slipped the 993 chassis harness that connects the engine to the chassis in through the firewall in the same spot as the 3.2 harness entered and it fits nicely. Then hooked up both axles just because they were in the way and torqued them properly. Then Greg installed the breather hose from the oil tank filler to the engine.

The only concession I had to make to fit the air intake/MAF/filter where we wanted it to live was Greg had to remove the trunk torsion bars, (those puppies were under some serious tension). I will go with 2 hydraulic shocks to handle the trunk lid. I checked out Greg's 914-6 to see how they operate and they are nice. Removal of those 2 rods opened up enough space that the intake fits nicely and runs along the trunk bulkhead. We also removed the complete relay board assemble as we no longer needed that and it took up some serious space. I was actually bummed about that as I really like Auto Atlanta's (George's) new relay board cover and wanted to see that in the engine bay.

Overall, a really satisfying day; I am so so happy to see that engine in place. It's amazing how smoothly things go when you are working with a guy like Greg who knows what he is doing, has the tools to do it, and wants it to look as clean and tidy as possible.

Oh, we did de-boss the intake a bit to clean it up. Removed 3 large mounting tabs which held a large mounting bracket for some electrical connectors. Those connectors will live comfortably below the intake.

Posted by: sb914 Jun 14 2024, 06:50 AM

Nice job . You must be super happy.what a journey this car has had . I remember seeing it at Kent’s. They’re never finished. Looks tidy!

Posted by: Steve Jun 14 2024, 07:37 AM

Looks great!! I removed my torsion bars when I installed the 3.2 back in 2000. I am surprised you got the 3.2 in there with them installed. Mine will probably be end of July. Going on vacation for a couple of weeks.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jun 14 2024, 07:41 AM

Keep your eyes on that contact area of the cone air filter and fuel-rail end; these cotton/alum screen filters are vulnerable to penetration and deforming when using in tight engine bays. Maybe a soft piece of foam-rubber there ¿
If your feeling creative; an isolation housing can be crafted>>just make sure enough air gets to it.

Posted by: tygaboy Jun 14 2024, 07:42 AM

and soon:

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jun 14 2024, 07:49 AM

Isolation housing on my shop truck; made from plastic and is ducted into front grill>>fed with cold air. Cold air always better than (ambient) hot engine bay air...but just under the 914 grill=not bad at all !

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 14 2024, 07:55 AM

@Maltese Falcon

Yeah, that was our thought when noodling where it should live. Also, we will be adding a piece of rubber pipe to move the filter about 4" further out for more clearance. I just need to find that rubber pipe now.... I believe it is a 3 3/8" ID that we need.

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 14 2024, 09:05 AM

Posted by: 930cabman Jun 14 2024, 11:17 AM

Great news, which model shoe horn did you guys use?

Posted by: 914dave Jun 15 2024, 04:50 AM

The 3.6 looks awesome in there. I had to remove the torson bars for the 3.2 intake and fire suppression install. I use a KD tool telescoping prop for the rear lid. I didn't want to cut the seal for the struts. Since the front trunk is wet with the oil cooler and GT headlight kit. Needed a dry place for my clothes on long trips. Good luck with the rest of the install.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 15 2024, 05:24 AM

Thanks guys; I appreciate the support.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 23 2024, 08:58 AM

Yesterday was a busy day, but nothing that really photographs well. We got the fuel regulator side of the fuel rails connected but I need to get some proper clamps to complete that- I may have some in my parts stash. Sorry no photos. Please note the bottom of the engine has not really been cleaned as it pretty much lived on my garage floor or Greg's lift table prior to install. All that dirtiness is cosmoline. Once we get everything sorted, I will get to work cleaning it so it looks nicer- although part of me says, "If it has been on the engine since '95, protecting the case, why remove it?" It comes off easy enough as just using a plastic scraper or a finger nail removes it easily.

Then we measured several times for the intake pipe extension to move the filter cone about 5" closer to the drivers side of the car for better overall clearance. We did not install it after making the "pipe" we needed. But when we install it next time, it should look very clean as this will allow us to remove one adapter piece and 2 clamps. Stay tuned for that.

Then we figured out the oil inlet to the engine with Greg taking a stock 911 oil pipe and cutting/modifying it, (think hammer and block of wood ) and welding a nice fitting on the end to connect up to the thermostat oil line. I think Greg did an amazing job; it is tucked up perfectly where we wanted it so it does not interfere with anything and is in a well protected space.

We worked on a return oil line to the engine but in the end did not like the looks of it. So back to the drawing board on that - the final piece of the oil line puzzle. We want it to be a metal pipe coming from the engine, about 7" long and turning 90 degrees and terminating about 4" past the radius. It is a really tight space when you test fit the heat exchanger and our first attempt, though it certainly would have worked, just did not look like we envisioned. We need a pipe bender with a tight radius to make that happen. We shall continue to "noodle" on that.

The oil return line you see connected in the 2nd picture from the top, (with the hose clamp around it) is not the finished product. We just were connecting it to our initial engine return line for a length test. So no worries- the final one will be neat and the line will not have any radical bends in it.

Hopefully we will be back at it on Wednesday or Thursday. Cheers, Michael

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 23 2024, 12:35 PM

Here's the hard line i used:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=44700&view=findpost&p=915814

I don't remember who made it (maybe PMS?), it was in the box of parts that came with the engine.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 24 2024, 11:40 AM

We will be back at it on Wednesday. I told Greg I could not make it Thursday as I wanted to be home in time for the debate! I think that may be entertaining.

Posted by: 930cabman Jun 24 2024, 11:57 AM

I used a PMS setup but was not pleased with the hard line routing. Ended up cutting it apart and welding it up where it should have been in the first place. Cheap and simple and done

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 24 2024, 12:07 PM

Truth be told... I have not been impressed with PMS parts and certainly not their customer support which is woefully lacking. Given what they charge for parts, there is no excuse for that.

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 24 2024, 12:12 PM

For what it's worth, i feel the same way.

Don't get me wrong, i'm glad they are making parts available for our cars but once you spent the money with them, you cease to exist until your next order.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 24 2024, 12:24 PM

Posted by: 930cabman Jun 24 2024, 12:30 PM

More than a couple of us are in this boat.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 24 2024, 04:52 PM

OK, I sourced the pipe I need, 7/8" 0.065 wall mild steel (thanks Chris Baker for the referral to McMaster Carr. Then, Chris said he has a tubing bender that make the bend we need. Hopefully that pipe arrives at Chris' tomorrow or Wednesday. Then as soon as Chris is available my brother and I will buzz over to The Red Barn for nice little bend and to stretch the legs of his new (to him) 911 Turbo S Coupe. Where would I be without the assistance of guys like Greg, Chris, Clay, Steve, HB, my brother and a host of others? It takes a car community to do this stuff.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 27 2024, 04:14 PM

Making decent progress. Greg has the fuel lines all completed except for the line from the fuel filter. We had to order a new fitting for that.

Greg got the complete intake system finished and it fits really nicely right where we wanted it.

Then we got the passenger side heat exchanger installed along with the clutch cable connected. We are waiting on the one oil line that goes from the oil tank to the engine. Tomorrow my brother and I will take a ride to The Red Barn where Chris is going to bend me some pipe for that.

Then we got the new rear trunk "shocks" installed. Thanks to Craig at Camp914 for those beauties. They work like a charm and look quite nice too.









Couple gratuitous '74 911 shots and my car sitting and waiting until our next day. That 911 is just amazing; the color is off the hook! Greg knows what he is doing and that is for sure.

Posted by: live free & drive Jun 27 2024, 05:08 PM

I'd hate to see that engine get ruined by the K&N filter - just say'n

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/k-n-air-filters-good-or-bad.164018/

Posted by: technicalninja Jun 27 2024, 09:11 PM

All that will do is possibly require the MAF to be cleaned more often.

He's NOT over oiled and I believe there is NOTHING paper based that could fit there.

Now, I personally prefer large surface area paper-based filters, but that car does not have room for one. I want my filter box to have a high-pressure cold air intake as well.
The 914 is LOUSY for high pressure cold air back there.
Really needs a snorkel that extends above the roof line and that would look like ASS...

He's not going to be off roading that car so the level of silica between paper and cotton gauze will be very hard to measure.

That MAF looks stupid simple to clean as well.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 The foam "pre-covers" do help enough on particulates to be worth installing. Might look into one.
And, if you're not automatically cleaning that MAF every couple of years regardless of air filter type you should be BITCH-SLAPPED!

Having a properly oiled K&N is far, far better than nothing at all...

Posted by: mb911 Jun 28 2024, 05:11 AM

Pre filter is a must. K&N filters are actually very poor at filtering. We did testing some 20 years ago at a company I worked at that showed more wear than its paper counterparts

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 28 2024, 05:28 AM

Maybe somebody with a 3D printer can design an air filter box that fits on the left side runners and would attach to the MAF sensor. Make it use a stock 993 filter element for ease of parts supply.

Big open sided with a rain shield lapping over on top.

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 28 2024, 12:19 PM

Posted by: technicalninja Jun 28 2024, 12:38 PM

I'm positive that my oldest, Bryan can do exactly that!

Only problem is what to make it out of.

Most 3D printer stock cannot handle 200 degrees.

I believe once you find a filament that can withstand 250 it's special and the 3D printer that is able to run it is fairly expensive.

I will ask Byran what he would do next time he's here.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 This is IMPORTANT!
What do you think the maximum temperature that the box might see putting it where you want?
I think it will be 5-10 minutes of heat soak after you've driven hard.
I think 250 would be COMMON directly above the engine.
Now, if you also incorporated an "after cool" fan that ran above a specific temp it might lower the max box temp a significant amount.
It doesn't take much airflow to have a major effect on cooling...

Posted by: technicalninja Jun 28 2024, 05:50 PM

Spoke with my son.

Nylon carbon fiber can withstand UP to 300 degrees F.

A decent sized printer will set you back 2K+.

The filament is expensive but not horribly expensive.

Approximately $60/lb.

So, not un-doable.

You'd want to 3D scan a 993 housing and modify from that point.

Text back from Bryan...

"This would run in my printer, but I need hardened steel nozzle tips and a new extruder.
Nozzles are in the range of $10-50 depending on brand, sizing... And a new extruder is around 40-60. The nozzles are required, and the extruder is to replace my current one once I run this through. It's a rough material to print with, so it will literally eat through the drive wheels, ptfe tubing, and the nozzles as it runs. Expensive filament that is very harsh on drive components. We used some carbon fiber filament on the rocket, it worked well. We didn't get it up to 300 but it was very strong.

We printed it with the schools cr10 unit, which is just a large version of my printer.

What are you wanting printed?"


Give me an approximate size and I'll check if his machine is big enough...

Posted by: technicalninja Jun 28 2024, 07:29 PM

Looking at that space between the engine and the driver's side of car I'd toss the idea of 993 copy and put the largest paper filter I could fit in that space with the filter "standing on edge" It looks like 12-14" tall and 22-24" long.

Imagine a paint roller pan turned on edge with the MAF entrance in the deep end with an outer cover with big louvers.

That would be a BIG ASS filter!

You could probably make a port to scavenge Sir Andy's high tech blow off bottle.

And for cars, not at the level of Cairo's. an outer NACA duct in the rear fender feeding into the outer housing...

A little like the Boxster/Cayman.

Now you have cool high-pressure air.

Having cool air above ambient pressure is ALWAYS worth power!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 29 2024, 01:44 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=27135 - Once we get her running and sorted, I would definitely love to get a better air filter system on the engine. But, as you know, one foot in front of the other.

Yesterday, my brother and I cruised over to Petaluma to meet with Chris, Mark, Martin, Steve and Robert at The Red Barn. Chris is just the best and is always willing to help us out. Martin demonstrated his skills by bending the pipe we will use for the oil return line from the oil tank to the engine, perfectly. We got 3' of 7/8" 0.065 walled mild steel and Martin put a nice 2" radius 90 degree bend on both ends about 10" from the end to the center of the radius. That should give us 2 pieces in case we screw up one.

Once that was done we all went to lunch with the exception of Martin and Robert who had to scoot. After lunch Bobby and I spent 3 hours in traffic for what should have been a 2 hour 10 minute trip. I swear even getting close to a holiday brings all of the fools out on the freeways.







[attachmentid=915261]

Posted by: Steve Jul 1 2024, 11:45 AM

I bought the PMS 914-6 Oil tank to 993 kit. https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/oil-cooling-and-delivery-system/products/oil901107993an16pms
They also make a fuel line kit with all the fittings and hoses. Expensive but I don’t have the talent or time to source this stuff myself or the tools and talent to make the stuff myself. Looking forward to your completed project. Very cool mods!!

Posted by: 930cabman Jul 1 2024, 12:44 PM

I had this kit: https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/oil-cooling-and-delivery-system/products/oil901107710an12pms

and was not pleased with the hard line, a couple cuts here and there and now fits like a glove. Steel tubing

Posted by: Nogoodwithusernames Jul 1 2024, 02:09 PM

When/if you get around to the intake upgrades we have a printer here at our shop that will run CF/Nylon.
Does it really need to be good to 200F though? You're not pulling 200F air into the motor?

My Squareback has a CF/Nylon oil filler to fit under the decklid, but the air filter plumbing is PVC with a PLA filter housing. (That's the cheap plastic that everyone and their aunt uses)


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 1 2024, 02:24 PM

The air temp when running is not the issue, it's the heat soak after you shut off the engine that can see temps well above 200.

Posted by: Nogoodwithusernames Jul 1 2024, 02:34 PM

Got it, I will say I have not had any issue with my "plain" air intake and heat soak up here in the northern CA Central Valley even after several years.
But we have the fancy printer available, happy to help out some fellow teeners.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 1 2024, 04:13 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20051 - That is a very generous offer and I will keep you in mind when the time comes. That is some screen name BTW.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 2 2024, 06:15 PM

Had a productive day today. Fuel system is done. Oil lines are done. Throttle cable connected and working fine. Driver's heat exchanger on along with muffler. When it hit 95 degrees in the garage we stopped.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 2 2024, 06:19 PM

That looks great! Any target date for the inital start up?

Posted by: East coaster Jul 2 2024, 07:51 PM

Looks great! Is that sweat running down the trailing arm?

Posted by: Krieger Jul 2 2024, 08:22 PM

Excellent work guys!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 2 2024, 08:29 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 No real target date. Next time I go to Greg's we will fill her with oil and gas. Button up the cooling/blower hoses and heat exchanger flappers, connect the O2 sensor and look at the wiring under the dash for some connections we need to make.

Then we will give everything a once over and maybe turn the key and see if everything has power. We do not want to rush trying to start her up.

East Coaster - Could be...

Posted by: Steve Jul 3 2024, 12:46 AM

Wow!! Great job!! I read on Pelican that due to the hydraulic lifters, you should disconnect the ignition and get the oil pressure up first twice before starting it to fill the hydraulic lifters.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 3 2024, 06:01 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Thanks buddy; shall do.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 3 2024, 08:45 AM

I saw the plug in your transmission for the speedo drive. What are you doing for a speedo?


Clay

Posted by: Root_Werks Jul 3 2024, 10:42 AM

You're getting really close!

95 is too hot to be working, good on you guys for calling it a day.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 3 2024, 11:27 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 - Hi Clay, I swapped over to a GPS based speedo when we first built the car. Works flawlessly and best of all no mechanical (cable) drive or leaks. I also did a later 911 electric speedo with the extra digit so I kept my cars mileage accurate.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 3 2024, 01:15 PM

95 is a good day to work on a car.

110 is too hot.

But y'all aren't in Texas, so I forgive you for being wimps.

Posted by: ValcoOscar Jul 3 2024, 01:41 PM

LOVE this thread

Who needs Netflix

O

Posted by: worn Jul 3 2024, 09:22 PM

That’s right, you’re not from Texas…

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 10 2024, 06:47 AM

Yesterday we put 10 quarts of oil in. We guesstimate the system might hold 12-13 quarts total. But 10 should be good to get her started. We added fuel to the tank and then turned the key on to check for leaks. The fuel pump is under the gas tank and it immediately pumped gas to the motor and we could hear it returning gas to the tank via the return line. No leaks- everything nice and dry so I put the inspection plate back on that covers the steering rack.

I added 1/2 a quart of Valvoline gear oil to top off the transaxle. We then installed the rear shift rod and checked we have all 5 gears and reverse.

Then we went to install the o2 sensor in the heat exchanger bung. I went to remove the plug in the bung and it did not go well. Pulled all the threads off the plug as it came out. We had to order a tap to clean/cut the threads in the heat exchanger bung... I hate when that happens. So we set the o2 sensor aside and moved on to other stuff.

We ran 2 new lines from the front of the car to the engine bay for the charcoal canister connection. When my 3.2 was installed we did not need the charcoal canister so the lines were terminated in the front fender. Now, apparently, we need the canister hooked up. We ran some 1/2" lines down the driver's side long, next to the hard oil lines for the front cooler and then reinstalled the rocker cover. We had to order some different black hose for the connections so we ordered that.

Finally, to end the day, Greg called Patrick Motorsports to get some answers regarding their wire harness kits. After spending some time on the phone with them, Greg was satisfied with what we have to do next. That wiring will hopefully get sorted next time.

Oh yeah, still on the hunt for the correct heater hose in 50mm size. We have the correct size in the cardboard stuff but that does not age well at all. The stuff we are chasing has a black plastic coating on it, looks really nice and more importantly, allows you to clean it without any damage to the hose. We have an "expert in the field" working on finding that. We have it in the 750mm length but we really want it to be about 1000mm so we can have a one piece pipe from the Mickey Mouse ears to the heater flapper valve. Hopefully we get that stuff soon.

PS- Yeah, I will clean the bottom of the engine. That is all Cosmoline; it actually flakes off pretty easy with just a plastic scraper - Brake Clean with a medium stiff brush gets the tougher stuff right off.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 10 2024, 07:15 AM

Getting so close!!

Posted by: 930cabman Jul 10 2024, 07:17 AM

Looks beautious

Posted by: mb911 Jul 10 2024, 08:39 AM

O2 sensor bung not have anti seize on it?

50mm is 2” give or take for the heat hose. Again look up scat or skeet tubing and you will find tons of options

Posted by: Tom1394racing Jul 10 2024, 09:04 AM

I bought my 50 mm heater hose here:

https://www2.cip1.com/vwc-028-129-087-agr/

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 10 2024, 11:02 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 Hi Ben - Not sure about the anti-seize, it was installed by AASE Motors. But, looking at the plug, it does not look like it.

Posted by: technicalninja Jul 10 2024, 11:05 AM

They actually make Hi temp anti sieze for exhaust stuff.

Powdered nickel instead of aluminum.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-77124-Nickel-Anti-Seize-Lubricant/dp/B0002UENJ2/ref=asc_df_B0002UENJ2/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693070740373&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12951312912933099365&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1026438&hvtargid=pla-491327689856&mcid=4eddd619fb063ceda24174e009a49346&gad_source=1&th=1

Posted by: mb911 Jul 10 2024, 12:16 PM

This is what I would suggest https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3630

Posted by: eric9144 Jul 10 2024, 02:11 PM

Haven't been on here as much recently with summer vacations, *awesome progress* on this
Was also interesting to see the camp914 rear decklid struts, its always frustrated me to not have any springs on my rear decklid so I'll probably order some of those up asap.

Getting close!!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 10 2024, 02:26 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=12876 - Craig's (Camp914.com) rear trunk shock kit works like a charm. The only thing we did differently (maybe) is we removed 2 of the balls from the brackets, drilled the hinge to accept and then welded them onto the trunk hinge. I will need to finish that with primer and paint once we get everything else sorted- but easy enough as it is just the hinge. The only place we used the provided bracket with the ball is along the side trunk weather strip channel, following his measurements. Worked perfectly and I am amazed how easy the trunk opens and closes. Definitely a good improvement. And, Craig is just a great guy to deal with and he shipped so promptly. Camp 914!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 15 2024, 06:32 AM

OK, we removed the driver's heat exchanger and used a tap to clean the threads of the o2 bung. Reinstalled the heat exchanger and then installed the o2 sensor and connected that up.

Then we addressed 2 small drips, one from the oil tank line where it meets the engine oil line, just needed to be tightened. Then the detent spring nut on the transaxle. Greg installed a very thin aluminum washer and tightened that down. It was just seeping enough to make the bolt slightly wet. Hopefully that solves both of those.

Then Greg tackled the remaining wiring and got that sorted. We were able to remove 1 spark plug from each cylinder, the fuel pump relay and then actually crank the engine over to make sure all the cylinders were clean.

At that point we reinstalled the spark plugs and pretty much called it a day as it was 106 degrees and we are old. It was not really a picture heavy kind of day -sorry.

Posted by: mb911 Jul 15 2024, 07:30 AM

When you going to fire it up? I have been dealing with crazy heat here as well. Makes it no fun to work on anything

Posted by: Shivers Jul 15 2024, 07:57 AM

Great work

Posted by: rick 918-S Jul 15 2024, 08:11 AM

does it run yet? crazy hot here last weekend

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 16 2024, 06:38 AM

We will see what happens on Friday or Saturday, whichever day we end up working on her.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 26 2024, 07:43 PM

It's ALIVE! We think we have an injector that is plugged up; it runs and starts right up (finally) but it has a miss at low RPM's and is running way rich. We will pull the injectors and take them to a fuel injector shop on Monday to have them serviced (if possible) or just replace them if need be. Then we will see how it runs. It's lumpy at low RPM but if you rev it to 5K it sounds very good. Getting it to run was the huge hurdle. More to follow in the morning about that. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 . @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 . @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897

Posted by: Steve Jul 26 2024, 08:21 PM

Congrats!! You’re getting closer!!

Posted by: markhoward Jul 26 2024, 10:24 PM

Well done Michael!

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2024, 10:27 PM

YES!!!! Can't hardly wait to see it in the metal. Big Congrats to all!

Posted by: Krieger Jul 26 2024, 11:02 PM

YES!

Posted by: 930cabman Jul 27 2024, 05:00 AM

It's alive is always a good sign. hopefully the miss you are experiencing will be a simple fix

Victory is

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 27 2024, 05:26 AM

Congrats!

Huge milestone crossed.

Posted by: East coaster Jul 27 2024, 07:31 AM

Congrats!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 27 2024, 07:53 AM

Thanks everyone. We are almost at the finish line. For the past 2 workdays we have been trying to sort a no-start issue. We had power to the coils but no spark when cranking. We figured the Crank Reference Sensor (CRS) was not functioning. Greg talked to a good friend of his who is a Master Porsche mechanic and he asked about the gap for the CRS. We had installed it and did not gap it. We pulled the transaxle and indeed the gap was twice what it should be. We corrected that and put her back together. Still no spark.

Greg and I noodled on it over the break and talked about when we installed the CRS and were required to update the connector on the engine harness for the new CRS and considered if we got a wire crossed. Greg called Kevin T. (owner of the Blue flared 914-6 with a 3.6) and asked Kevin to snap a picture of his CRS connector. Sure enough, his was wired differently. Thank you Kevin. I ordered a new connector from Porsche.

While my brother and HB went to Porsche to pick-up the new connector, Greg and I finished up the charcoal canister plumbing from the canister on my fuel tank to the engine.

My brother, Bob, has been there for every part of this swap and has provided support and encouragement along the way. HB @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=25541 is a great friend, like Greg, and has been there as well. A special thank you to Bob and HB.

When Bobby and HB returned we installed the new connector with the wires pinned like Kevin's and we now had spark- Yay! When we tried to start her she sounded like she wanted to run and we got a puff of smoke out of the exhaust. All encouraging, but it still did not start. Greg shot some starter fluid into her and it did start for a second and then died.

We noodled on that no-start issue and Greg called his buddy and he asked if my DME had the Drive Block system. (Early '95 3.6 were not supposed to have that.) I had checked with Steve Wong when I bought the engine and provided him my engine serial number and a picture of my DME serial number. He told me my engine was Drive Block free.

Regardless of being Drive Block free, I bought a Steve Wong chip for the 3.6 as we are not running a stock flywheel; we have the 901 in there. My Kennedy Engineering flywheel is 9.5 pounds and considered a lightweight flywheel. Steve said if I do not run a modified chip, when I take my foot off the gas to come to a stop the engine RPM's will drop and the engine will want to stall. Made sense to me so we installed the Steve Wong chip. Well, when we were trouble-shooting the no start condition, we swapped out the custom chip and installed the stock chip. Greg and his buddy said, "put the Steve Wong chip back in and see what happens". Apparently, the Steve Wong chips also come designed to be Drive Block free.

We reinstalled the Steve Wong chip and she fired right up! Major milestone and we were very pleased. (Lesson learned, in the 27 years that motor sat, apparently the DME we received was not the DME that originally left the factory with that car.)

A special thanks to Clay @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 who has been providing his expertise behind the scenes as we work our way through this swap. He has shared his knowledge/expertise along the way and it has been very helpful.

The engine is not running like she should; lumpy at low RPM, running very rich with a rough idle. At higher RPM she sounds great. This engine sat in storage since 1997 when it was removed from the 993 with 18K miles on it. After discussing it for a bit we decided we likely have some fouled injectors. On Monday, Greg is going to take them to a local fuel injector shop and see if they can be cleaned/serviced. If not, we will buy new injectors. We believe the rough running and rich condition are the result of an injector(s) stuck open, dumping fuel into the cylinder and that is why when you get to higher RPM's it smooths right out. We shall see. We stopped for the day as we did not want to wash the cylinders down with a bunch of fuel. We expected her to smoke when we fired her up due to all of the Marvel Mystery Oil we had squirted into the cylinders while the motor sat in my garage awaiting installation. She did not disappoint and fogged the garage quite nicely.

Oh, Greg's buddy also asked us to check the connection on our cylinder head temperature sensor because if that is not connected properly, apparently that will cause the DME to enrich the engine. Our is connected properly and this richness is more than that.

OK. That catches you up. We will get back on this probably mid-week and see what we get accomplished.

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 27 2024, 09:26 AM

Posted by: burton73 Jul 27 2024, 11:57 AM

Michael, way to go. very happy for you guys

Best Bob B

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 27 2024, 04:36 PM

Congrats........... You might consider a set of these: https://www.ctsturbo.com/product/bosch-42lb-440cc-green-giant-high-impedance-injector/ They are a plug and play replacement for the stock 964/993 injectors. They have better flow and fuel atomization due to a newer pintle design. This is what I am using on the 4.0 monster.

Posted by: frankieshooz Jul 27 2024, 10:07 PM

Once again Michael raises the bar…amazing!

Posted by: rick 918-S Jul 28 2024, 05:27 AM

I had a rich condition that turned out to be low fuel pressure. You would think that would be the opposite.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 28 2024, 06:24 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=8358 918-S I don't think it is low fuel pressure. When we first turned the key to power the systems, I had maybe 2 gallons of gas in the tank. We could hear the fuel pump pumping and it quickly was pouring gas back into the tank via the return line- sounded like a garden hose pouring water. But still, it is a good idea to throw a fuel pressure gauge in line to see... you never know.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=17945 Thanks a bunch, let's hope it comes out as nice and we had planned. Once you get your car back from PMB we have to meet up at one of the gatherings. I would love to see your car.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 - Those injectors look nice and would not break the bank either. I see they are presently out of stock. I have saved that page and will check to see when they are available. Even if we service mine, new injectors might be nice.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 28 2024, 07:26 AM

I sent the Ferrari injectors to Mr. Injector. He seems to be the "go-to" for service.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 28 2024, 09:57 AM

That's not the only place you can get them. Search around for the best price and availability.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 29 2024, 05:49 PM

I just ordered the vacuum canister for the resonance flap. I did not have one....what the heck? My understanding is that comes into play at higher RPM's.

Posted by: Steve Jul 29 2024, 08:21 PM

I left mine connected, but SMC and Paragon list it as part of the air injection. https://www.paragon-products.com/Vacuum-Reservoir-for-Air-Injection-System-p/993.110.140.03.htm So I am curious if it’s needed.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 30 2024, 05:42 AM

There is a check valve and a vacuum canister in the line to the resonance flap. It is needed to keep the resonance flap open at full throttle. The manifold vacuum goes to zero at full throttle, and the resonance flap would close when it is needed the most. The canister provides enough vacuum reserve to keep it open. The check valve keeps it from dumping to the intake plenum that is at zero vacuum.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 30 2024, 07:11 AM

Ohhhh... now I have to find a check valve.

Greg was able to take the injectors to the shop to get them serviced. I can't wait to get back out there so we can install them and see if that helped.

Posted by: technicalninja Jul 30 2024, 08:35 AM

Look to the AC world if Porsche is excessive on price.

Most of the dash systems from 20 years back had vacuum controls.

The check valves and vacuum canisters are sources of problems.

Need MORE volume in the canister?

VW water pumpers had what looked like a bunch of frog's eggs clipped to the hood.

Those are the best canisters of all...

Posted by: technicalninja Jul 30 2024, 08:36 AM

I've got a couple of brand new MOPAR valves.

I'd ship one for free if it would help...

Posted by: Steve Jul 30 2024, 10:37 AM

Curious what valve you are referring to? This one? https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/95560629100.htm?pn=955-606-291-00-OEM&bc=c&SVSVSI=0643

Posted by: eric9144 Jul 30 2024, 01:57 PM

so close

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 30 2024, 03:13 PM

OK, the injector shop said the injectors were fine. So the hunt continues for why it is running rich and rough at low RPM.

Posted by: roundtwo Jul 30 2024, 10:23 PM

Great project and progress Michael. I’ve been watching from the sidelines and learning along from you and the pit crew

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 31 2024, 05:11 AM

Did you replace the O-rings under the intakes? Vacuum leaks will cause rough running.

Also, check to make sure the distributor is installed correctly. The injection is sequential, and if the distributor is installed wrong, it will run rough.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 31 2024, 06:08 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=23905 - Thanks- I appreciate that. I look forward to seeing your car again.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 - We did not replace the O-rings under the intake. We believe the distributor dropped right in the way it came out.... I will talk to Greg about that.

Thank you guys.

Posted by: Steve Jul 31 2024, 06:30 AM

The pulley should be on TDC (red mark) and both distributors should point to the line. Easy to see with the caps off. Could it also be the ICV? Is it also hunting at idle?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 31 2024, 06:36 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Thanks for the info Steve. As we continue to work this issue, we will be checking all that stuff. I appreciate your thoughts on this.

Posted by: technicalninja Jul 31 2024, 08:24 PM

Mailed check valve today.

Incoming!

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 31 2024, 08:42 PM

I was talking with Betty about this at dinner. And I thought of something else to check.

Make sure both coils are firing. The engine will run on one ignition, but it will do so badly. The pistons are large enough to need both coils to run smooth.

Put a timing light on each coil wire and make sure they are both firing.

Mine wasn't firing on both cylinders initially. I had a bad igniter.

Hope that helps!

Posted by: mb911 Aug 1 2024, 04:24 AM

Had a 964 that had a bad coil and it ran terrible. Unplugged the one coil and it ran better. Bought a new replacement for the bad one and all was good

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 1 2024, 06:08 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 = Excellent tip. I am. headed to Greg's this morning with the list of things to check. We shall see.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 1 2024, 10:29 AM

Hopefully "the list" is getting smaller

Posted by: mb911 Aug 1 2024, 10:35 AM

Basically the bad coil was sending bad juju to the other coil causing misfires

Posted by: technicalninja Aug 1 2024, 02:42 PM

We had a weird one once,

RX3 ITA car. Rotaries take BIG, BIG power in the secondary ignition to work properly.

Strange misfires till we were looking in the engine compartment after dusk.

All of the wires had a blue "aura" around them and you could actually SEE the auras affecting each other!

Looked like something out of "Starwars."

Braided SS sheathed wires with INDIVIDUAL grounds fixed that just fine...

Posted by: FL000 Aug 1 2024, 06:22 PM

How many beers in were you when this was observed

Just kidding, that could have been a hard problem to find. Good to see all the progress you guys have made.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 2 2024, 07:52 AM

We began yesterday by admiring the absolutely beautiful Mickey Mouse ears a good friend of Greg's 3D printed for my car. A special thanks to Steve Silva for hating the PMS ears enough to ask his good friend if he could do this. Just amazing finished product and made out of the good stuff so they will not deform or melt. We started the engine and I was amazed at how much air pressure comes out of those 2 pipes even with the engine running poorly. No wonder the heat exchangers pump out such great heat. Hooked up the hoses and called that done.

Here is a pictures of the as-shipped PMS Mickey Mouse ears on the engine. You can just see the two pipes sticking up, almost straight up. That was not going to work for the way we wanted this build to look.



Here is how the beautiful 3D ears look:









We discussed the list of things you all have been mentioned to help us trouble-shoot the poor running condition - thank you all. When we got to the cylinder head temperature sensor... the wiring was opposite of what Kevin's 914-6 3.6 was. Greg had taken pictures of Kevin's wiring. Greg swapped the pins and plugged it back in.

Greg removed the passenger side intake manifold so we could install the new Vacuum canister and connected the vacuum lines so the resonance flap would operate. I have to say, Porsche did a nice job of locating that canister.

I turned the key and it started and lumped along, missing and smelling rich with some smoke. As we stood there looking at the engine, Greg said, "Michael, unplug the MAF." I did and the engine smoothed right out! OMG! So we rejoiced for a minute and ordered a new MAF sensor. 3 hours later we had it in our hands.

Quick side note: We checked the price of the MAF through Porsche, $1,190.00 and they could not get it in until Monday. We checked it through RM European and the cost was like $170. What the exact hell is going on with Porsche parts? Greg called a good friend and he ordered it through SSF for us and when we picked it up it was $190 including tax. Nice.

We installed the new MAF and it fired right up and ran great. Yay! We checked around the car for leaks, etc., put the seats in and took her for a ride. It felt so good to be behind the wheel again. We drove about 7 miles and pulled over and checked for leaks and noted the front oil cooler fans were now on. We still did not have the fan shroud installed because we wanted to make sure everything was tight and no leaks. I could not even hear the fans running from inside the car. The temperature was sitting at 180 and it was about 98 degrees outside.

We returned to Greg's with about 15 miles on her and checked the oil and added 1 quart. We now have 13 quarts in the system and it reads right between the marks on the dip stick.

We took her for another ride, Greg driving this time and he tested the engine properly. The engine has tons of torque and pulls hard. First gear really not needed. We do not have the back-pad, seatbelts or the floor mats installed yet. Despite that I was amazed at how quiet the engine was. We could hear the resonance flap open at high RPM's. We put another 10 miles on it and went back to Greg's. The engine is running better now than it did when we first drove her. I guess awaking from a 27 year slumber takes a minute.

On the next trip to Greg's I will bring the rear valance to see if it will fit the Sport muffler. I will also take the back-pad and see if that will fit with the seat belt modification. We still have to chase down the oil pressure gauge issue; it and the warning light are acting up. When running, the pressure gauge pins to maximum and the warning light glows green. We obviously have pressure so that, fortunately, is not it.

We need to install the oil cooler shroud (thanks again Chris @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 ). It will be nice to get that buttoned up.

I am optimistic about the whole cooler set-up. With no shroud to funnel air we did not get over 180 degrees on the 2 rides. Now granted, we were not sitting in stop and go traffic on a 108 degree day, but still. I was relieved to grab the front trunk oil lines and feel they were hot as was the cooler. No leaks and the fan thermostat working properly was terrific.

We are closing in on the end of this swap.

I feel blessed to have so many great friends who have all contributed to this build. Without them, this would have never happened. Cheers to all. Michael

Posted by: ndfrigi Aug 2 2024, 08:15 AM

wow! Congratulations Michael and great work Greg!

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 2 2024, 08:31 AM

Gotta be a big relief to get it running - and running well! Huge shout out to Greg for all his work.
Can't wait to see you, Bob and the car in person.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 2 2024, 08:54 AM

Victories are always good, enjoy this ride in good health

Posted by: ClayPerrine Aug 2 2024, 09:17 AM

I had the exact same problem. The wires are swapped between the gauge sender and the light sender. I just changed them at the sender and it fixed both of them.

Hope that helps..... And Congrats on getting to the first drive!

Clay

Posted by: Root_Werks Aug 2 2024, 09:48 AM

Now I want a 3.6!

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 2 2024, 09:53 AM

Same here, mine were swapped as well.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 2 2024, 12:48 PM

Fingers crossed! Thanks Clay and Andy.

Posted by: Steve Aug 2 2024, 02:08 PM

Congrats!! Glad you got the bugs out!! Lots of good troubleshooting information in case we run into similar issues.

Posted by: napasteve Aug 2 2024, 02:27 PM

Just outstanding! I'm also looking forward to seeing in person.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 4 2024, 07:19 PM

The car is home now. The oil pressure and warning light were resolved by swapping the 2 wires. Buttoned up the oil cooler/fan shroud and with Greg lying under the car I turned on the fans and they blow air out the floor louvers nicely. Reinstalled the rear valance, wiped the car down and took her for a drive. Everything works beautifully. I am amazed how nice it runs; no smoke, no drips, just great running.

On the way home, weather was over 100 degrees the entire way and she ran at 185 degrees. I was doing between 65 and 80 the entire trip- 107 miles. Effortless acceleration and power. Now I still do not have my back pad installed, I need to order some seatbelt hardware to get the passenger belt installed and then I will see about installing the back pad. Regardless, the engine is quiet. I used to have to drive with AirPods and play music because the 3.2 was a bit rowdy.

I will be posting pictures probably tomorrow, but I need to give her a detail and then take some photos.

Thanks to Greg T. and his wife Sandi for tolerating my brother and I during this entire process. Greg is a true Master mechanic and it definitely shows on my car. Thanks to my twin brother Bob who supported this decision and helped throughout the process, as did HB, our good friend. It was a great adventure and a terrific learning experience for me. Heck, I might even attempt the oil/filter change on my own in a couple hundred miles.

Cheers,
Michael

Posted by: Shivers Aug 4 2024, 07:46 PM

Congratulations!

Posted by: eric9144 Aug 5 2024, 02:49 PM

Ah memories of picking up my car...with no seatbelts.

The 3.6 is a totally different beast than the 3.2, not bashing the 3.2 by any means but the 3.6 is kind of glorious, especially when you're foot becomes more accustomed to the power curves etc. My only advice at this point is ease into it, you'll be surprised at just how capable and fast, yet oddly civilized that motor can be--and congratulations on the next chapter with your -big- 6

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 5 2024, 03:17 PM

Thanks Eric; Totally agree re the feel of the 3.6. Here are a couple photos of how the engine bay turned out. Given all of the stuff on these engines, I think we did a pretty good job of making it look as uncluttered as possible.

A big thanks to Greg and Steve's good friend, Cayley for making those absolutely beautiful "Mickey Mouse" ears.

Also to Clewett Engineering for their terrific serpentine belt kit- I think that is a must-do upgrade for a 6 in a 914.

Posted by: mb911 Aug 5 2024, 03:28 PM

I bet that thing will have rubber on the rear of the 1/4”s pretty easy. I can only imagine. My car feels like a beast now that it has the fuel injection operating well I can’t imagine what a 3.6 would be like

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 5 2024, 09:30 PM

Damn I saw that reflection on the front fender lip and thought it was damaged!

You are are going to need alot more rubber

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 5 2024, 09:42 PM

Not that much more. Sticky 225's all around have worked very well for me on the street.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 6 2024, 06:10 AM

On my list is to borrow an unrestored deep 6 rim and mount a 205 x 65 x 15 tire and move it around the car to see if it will clear. Once I figure out which tire I want and if it fits, I will get a set for my wheels. Right now I am running 195 x 65 x 15.

Posted by: Dion Aug 6 2024, 06:49 AM

Congratulations Michael, another long journey fulfilled. Car looks awesome.
Good luck with finding the right tyres you like.

Posted by: Biggles Aug 6 2024, 09:53 AM

I'd be interested to know Michael if a 195 on the front feels noticeably less heavy on steering than a 205 or not ? I'm running 205 65 15 on the front and 225s on the rear with a 3.2 engine set up.
Also I've never driven any other 914s but mine doesn't really like road bumps and the suspension does seem to crash/bang a bit if theres the slightest pot hole (which is a problem on our rubbish UK roads!). I've never known if that's just how these cars are? It's had renewed dampers with a 16mm anti roll bar and had usual suspension set up.
Cheers
Chris.

Posted by: Steve Aug 6 2024, 10:02 AM

Curious if you are running an adjustable front sway bar? I learned the hard way that my 22mm front Tarret bar was causing most of my pot hole issues. When you hit a pot hole with one wheel, the sway bar is engaged. By adjusting it to the lightest setting it made a big difference on potholes. Otherwise I also switched to an adjustable koni in the front and that helped a little. Otherwise I compared my 225 x17" front with 205x55x16 and of course the 205x55 with higher profile rode nicer and easier to steer. Not the same as your 15" comparison, but these cars were designed for 25" tall tires, how you get there depends on the rim and tire.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 6 2024, 10:38 AM

The 195x65x15 are not heavy at all when turning; very easy to steer.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Aug 6 2024, 03:00 PM

We have 195/65-15s on Elwood (the original six). It steers nicely with no heaviness in the steering, unless you are not moving.

With that and the pea gravel driveway, getting out of the garage is a workout for all our 914s.

Posted by: Biggles Aug 7 2024, 03:30 AM

No adjustable anti roll bar. Just a standard 16mm one. Can't imagine I should or could go less than this and probably about the same as your 22mm bar on the lightest setting? Who knows. Maybe that's just how they are but there is usually a big bang when it goes over even a smallish pot hole. Smooth roads it all behaves very well. Maybe I'm just asking too much of it!
I think i'll certainly try a 195 front next and see how it goes.
Anyway don't want to hijack Michael's thread ! Thanks guys.

Posted by: jim dorociak Aug 7 2024, 08:03 PM

I also wonder what tire pressure you guys are running as too high will impact the harness passed back into the car. I am excited to see your 3.6 installed and can not wait for additional feedback as to the differences between the 3.2 while living with such a beast of a motor. Love your car - thank you again for sharing. Jim Dorociak

Posted by: Biggles Aug 8 2024, 04:10 AM

For me 24 psi front 28 psi rear.
205 x 65 x 15 f
225 x 65 x 15 r

Posted by: burton73 Aug 8 2024, 02:14 PM

For you guys: Info on Marks Blue Car with the Bob / Mark rebuild finished my PMB Performance
Stock body 74 car. The wheels are copies of Deep 6 front and 7rs rear. Copy of Deep 7s with extra 1 in going to the inside.

215-15R rear 1/2” spacer on the 7r wheel. Fender roll provides 1/2” clearance. 205-15r front on 6 wheel with 1/4” spacer.

At the time Eric said this was the 1st time they actually installed this set up. Was just theoretical previous. He will use this configuration going forward on non flared builds

Mark says no scraping at all.

Best Bob B
[attachmentid=918995]

Posted by: JmuRiz Aug 8 2024, 03:04 PM

Wish someone made a 7R offset in a 16x7 wheel. That'd be perfect!!!

Posted by: ClayPerrine Aug 8 2024, 03:19 PM

944 turbo fronts will work.

Posted by: JmuRiz Aug 8 2024, 03:53 PM

I think the 16x7 on the 951 are the same offset as normal 911 16x7, only the 16x8 rear have a difference.

Posted by: burton73 Aug 8 2024, 04:52 PM

--------From Michael,----------

On my list is to borrow an unrestored deep 6 rim and mount a 205 x 65 x 15 tire and move it around the car to see if it will clear. Once I figure out which tire I want and if it fits, I will get a set for my wheels. Right now I am running 195 x 65 x 15. beerchug.gif

I posted a number of things on 951 7 and 8s before as that was what was going on the blue car in my mind. I had 2 sets that I have sold now.

Michael is looking for answerers for his righteous refinishedfinished deep 6s x15 and this is as good of an answer as I can come up with.

Best Bob B

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 8 2024, 11:05 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7414 Thank you Bob; I will definitely check that out.

Posted by: 914dave Aug 9 2024, 05:40 AM

your car has been quite a journey over the years. Thanks for taking us along for the ride! Enjoy

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 9 2024, 07:38 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1262 = You are quite welcome; my pleasure. I have enjoyed the whole process. My goal from the beginning was to document the entire build so others can see what it takes and realize it can be done.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 12 2024, 02:09 PM

My car was apart from February 16th to August 4th. In that almost 6 months of being crawled over and worked on we had only 1 very minor mishap. We ended up with a small, soft dent, maybe the size of a dime, on the trunk lid, maybe 6" back of the engine lid on the passenger side. Fortunately, no paint damage. I have been around enough shops and cars getting worked on to know stuff happens.

I called a shop recommended by Porsche of Rocklin- Bullseye Paintless Dent Removal, (Bullseyedent.com) located in Roseville. When I called last week and spoke with the owner, Keith, I told him I had an original 914-6. He said those are rare and he has not seen one in years. He said he would be there when I brought my car in.

This morning I met Keith and his employee Shawn. Their shop is exactly what you want to see when you roll in their door. Immaculate and stocked with everything they could ever need to work on your car. Two very nice guys indeed.

Keith actually worked on my car. First he used his paint gauge to measure the material on my car to identify any possible issues; (bondo) none were apparent. He took his time, about 1 hour, as he slowly and methodically worked the soft dent out. I have watched PDR guys work on my cars before but I have to admit this was a nail-biting experience. Fortunately, any anxiety I had was not merited. Keith did a great job and that small, soft dent is now history. I highly recommend Bullseye Paintless Dent Removal.

I am taking my car to Mels Original Diner in Auburn for a car show this Saturday, 8/17. Now that the dent is gone, I will feel much better about showing it. Yeah, Mels is mostly a hot rod kind of show, think American Graffiti, but I kind of feel like my car has a toe in the hot rod pond. I love muscle cars so my brother and I are looking forward to a fun day. If you are in the area, feel free to stop by and say hello. I am pretty sure I will have the only 914 in the show.

Cheers,
Michael

Posted by: markhoward Aug 12 2024, 02:54 PM

Looking good Michael! Have an unrestored deep 6 that you can borrow to experiment tires with. Let me know if you still need one.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 12 2024, 07:50 PM

Thank you Mark; that is very generous. When the time is right, I will reach out for the wheel. Cheers, Michael

Posted by: Steve Aug 12 2024, 07:57 PM

I am curious…. Was the 3.6 worth it to you over the 3.2? The 3.2 is plenty for these cars and a lot less hassle to install. A quieter fan / motor would be nice with the 3.6, the 3.2 is pretty noisy. Looking forward to getting my 3.6 running, so I can compare.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 13 2024, 05:19 AM

Just got my stock 2.7 with Webers going and wondering about these large displacement builds. 2.7 seems adequate, but I guess size matters

Can't imagine Clay with a 4.0 monster

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 13 2024, 06:21 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - Hi Steve- The 3.6 is definitely worth it. Yes, it was a lot of work and some money too, as you already know. But the engine behaves completely different from the 3.2. The 3.2, to me, always felt like it was working to make power- and it did have good power. I often described it running like a small block Chevy hot rod motor. The engine noise was the most apparent difference between the two.

The 3.6 just seems to make effortless power and there is very little engine noise - and I still do not have my back pad installed so it will only get better. In my book, this 3.6 will stay in my car until I can no longer drive. I have used 1st gear, out of habit, a couple of times, but really just have a 4 speed now. The 3.6 has so much torque that it works just fine. I think you will love the 3.6, especially with the 915.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 13 2024, 10:21 AM

So, now you are running a big block?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 13 2024, 12:04 PM

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 13 2024, 01:47 PM

with turbo(s)

got to feel great to get her running

Posted by: mepstein Aug 15 2024, 02:33 PM

When is the 915 going in?

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 15 2024, 08:02 PM

Yeah, I wish.

Posted by: Steve Aug 15 2024, 09:08 PM

Kind of over rated. I had dr. Evil build me a 914 trans for my SBC 914, 3rd is O, 4th is X and 5th is H. It’s only a 4 speed, but a 1/4 of the cost of a 916 trans. The 993 tiptronic was only a 4 speed. The 3.6 motor has more than enough power to start out in second. Sir Andy has been using a 914 trans with his 3.6 for years.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 16 2024, 04:15 AM

Yup, I know. And I know Andy "drives" his car too. If I had a spare $20K in a couch cushion....

Posted by: Steve Aug 16 2024, 06:43 AM

Some guy on Pelican is working on a Boxster Trans kit. If iit ever happens it would be cheaper and better, but more work. It would be easier shifting and a six speed. Some day when I get my car running I will let you drive it, unless you can find a 3.6 915 car up there.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 16 2024, 09:14 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - I would love to drive your car. A Boxster 6 speed would be sweet.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 24 2024, 07:42 PM

Today we changed the oil and both filters. The oil looked nice and clean coming out; only had 300 miles on it. The magnetic drain plug looked clean too. The underside of the car was nice and dry.

I re-torqued the CV bolts and exhaust manifolds. Greg shot color on the trunk hinges and you would never know he welded the trunk shock balls onto the hinge- they look like they came from the factory like that. I really like the way the trunk opens and closes now. Great kit from Camp 914- thanks again Craig.

Then we adjusted the tail pipe where it exits the valance; the Sport Dansk has a larger tip than the stock Dansk. We were able to get the tip to fit much nicer.

We had rain for about 50% of the trip to Tracy (109 miles from my home to Greg's) and then again on the way home for maybe 30 minutes. My car didn't melt.... Car is running great.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 25 2024, 04:59 AM

Congrats, the taste of victory is sweet

Posted by: Steve Aug 25 2024, 07:58 AM

Congrats!!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 28 2024, 08:39 AM

Moving along to trying to sort what I believe is a mis-match between sender and gauge for my oil temperature and pressure. My pressure is typical 80 pounds when at freeway speeds, say 2700 RPM/75 MPH, and when idling, at 40 pounds. I believe that is almost double the actual pressure. I believe my 3.6 retains the stock sender as it was only in a car for 2 years before it was removed and stored.

My oil temperature is, I believe, reading low. The other day I drove 108 miles, granted the weather was cool, say 65 degrees out, but the gauge never got above, say 160 degrees. Despite that, my 200 degree thermal switch for my fans had turned the fans on.

Here is a picture of the gauges to show the scale on each gauge. These gauges were, I believe accurate with the 3.2.

[attachmentid=920950]




Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 28 2024, 08:51 AM

Where's the oil temp sensor relative to the fan thermo switch? Any chance the temp differential could be due to that?

As I say "It's always something..." You'll get it sorted, I have no doubt.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 28 2024, 10:17 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Hi Chris- The thermal switch (fans) is in the front trunk just about 1 foot from the fans- quite a ways from the engine where the oil temp sensor resides.

Hartmut (Palo Alto Speedo) has offered to bench test my gauges to check their accuracy, so that might be something I do down the road if I determine the senders on the engine are correct units for that engine- I believe they are.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Aug 28 2024, 10:52 AM

I found the stock 3.6L sender does not match an earlier 911 sender. You have to get the proper sender to match the gauge.

So you will probably end up with a 8MM sender that won't fit the hole the original 3.6L sender was in. So you will need part number 964 107 705 22. That fits in the big hole that the 3.6L sender was in, and has an 8mm hole in it for the proper sender to match the gauge.

And you will probably have to have a separate sender for the gauge and the light.

Posted by: 930cabman Aug 28 2024, 12:31 PM

Haven't heard, is a G50 an option in our teeners?

have one in my 930, it's sweet

Posted by: Steve Aug 28 2024, 01:49 PM

Yes, both senders are wrong for those gauges. The temp sender should be 90164163200 and no clue on the pressure gauge since early stock 911 combo gauge with that temperature gauge is 0-140 PSI, not 80. The stock 3.6 pressure sender is 0-5 Bar, which is 0-72.52 PSI, so your close...

Posted by: Steve Aug 28 2024, 01:58 PM

I have seen it done, but the ones i have seen are upside down, have to cut the trunk and use a cable shifter.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Aug 28 2024, 02:53 PM

I looked into this when building my 4.0L six.

The G-50 is a very robust, well shifting transmission. But unfortunately it won't work on a mid engine car without running it upside down. The bell housing bolt pattern on an air cooled Porsche motor asymmetrical, so you have to redrill the bell housing to run the G-50 transmission upside down. Then you have to redrill the drain plug and the vent in the transmission. You have to setup some sort of shift linkage that will work the factory shift rod. To make it fit in a 914, you have to cut the bottom out of the rear trunk to clear the transmission. And the axle angles are really absurd when running a G-50.

That and the fact that a clapped out G-50 will run you 10K. Then you have to rebuild it before it is usable.

That's why I chose a G-86-21 from a Boxster S/Cayman S. They shift as good as or better than a G-50,they are already mid engine, the axle angles are good, and they are cable shifted. But there are other drawbacks to them as well.

If I ever win the lotto, I will have G-86-21 cases made up with a G-50 bell housing and mounts for the rear of the trans that will fit a 914.

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 28 2024, 06:14 PM

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 28 2024, 06:17 PM

Double post

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 28 2024, 06:18 PM

If the 901 wasn't a mag case you could cut the bell housing off and weld one on the G-86

Posted by: ClayPerrine Aug 29 2024, 05:50 AM

The 901 clutch is too small for the engine I have.

But I actually thought about that using a 964/993 G-64 AWD transmission partial case,



Cutting the bell housing portion off, cutting the bell housing off of a G-86-21 case, and welding the two together. But it would take a lot of time to get it fitted correctly. And I am not a welder. I don't have the skill level necessary to do that. So the welding would cost a fortune.

Sorry about the thread hijack......

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 29 2024, 10:04 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - OK, I ordered that sender from RM European. I am trying to source the fitting from Porsche to allow that to screw into the 3.6.

Posted by: Steve Aug 29 2024, 10:53 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Both senders look the same physically. Let us know if their is a difference. I also have a temp gauge like yours and was debating on putting it in someday. I was just anal on crooked numbers in the 904 pod, versus the stock one doesn't matter since its just a white area and red area. Another future project...

Posted by: ClayPerrine Aug 29 2024, 04:26 PM

The oil pressure sender on a 3.6 has a threaded base that is about 19mm (estimated). The oil pressure sender for that gauge has an 8mm threaded base. You have to have the adapter to put it in a 3.6L engine.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 29 2024, 08:28 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 - I checked with Porsche and that adapter, (96410770522) is out of stock everywhere. Any other possible sources?

Posted by: ClayPerrine Aug 29 2024, 10:26 PM

Buy one of the plugs, drill it out and tap it to the correct size for the sender.

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 29 2024, 11:28 PM

Interestingly, those numbers aren't too far off.

Mine sits around 20-30 at idle and 70-100 under load.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 30 2024, 06:01 AM

Thanks Andy. Interesting indeed; maybe my sender is OK and I just need to have PAS change the gauge to one with a higher scale.

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1143 - Is it the same size as the oil drain plug?

Posted by: Long_ago Aug 30 2024, 06:18 AM

Maybe there's something in the VDO catalog??

https://vdo-instruments.com/product-category/senders-and-sensors/

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 30 2024, 06:26 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=25541 - Good morning HB. Thanks for the referral.

Posted by: Steve Aug 30 2024, 08:59 AM

The stock 3.6 sender is 0-5 Bar (0-72 PSI). Your gauge is 0-80 PSI. I don't know if its worth the hassle of changing the pressure gauge or sender. I would just change the temp sender to match your temp gauge. Temp accuracy is more important.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 22 2024, 05:02 PM

OK, today we sorted the oil temperature gauge by swapping in the oil temp sender on the engine that Steve @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 recommended. Drove it and the temperature was right at 210 degrees in traffic and sitting in stopped traffic it climbed to a high of 230 degrees. So, I am going to go back to my original thermal switch for the oil cooler fans, which I believe was 195 degree and we will probably go ahead and connect the 5 front holes into one long oval to allow more air to flow through the coolers. I know 230 degrees is not bad, 220 is ideal for oil temperature I think, but I would like it to be maybe 10 degrees cooler when in traffic in hot weather.

Posted by: 930cabman Sep 22 2024, 05:47 PM

Have your local machinist whip one up. Might be a simple fix to drill/tap an 18mm bolt

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 22 2024, 05:51 PM

I have a matching gauge/sender pair. In fact, i bought the gauge i liked first and then bought the matching sender for it.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 22 2024, 06:12 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822
It's a 0-10 bar dual sender with an adapter to fit in place of the stock 0-5 bar sender.
And the gauge is a 911.641.104.29 which is a 0-10 bar/0-140 psi pressure gauge.

Posted by: mepstein Sep 22 2024, 06:28 PM

I would call these guys. They usually come through for me.



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Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 25 2024, 08:53 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=10825 - Thanks Mark - Ordered it and it should be here within 2 weeks.

It's just a matter of staying on track and knocking off the "to do" list an item at a time.

Steve @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=822 - The pressure sender was a direct swap- no issues for fitment. Thanks for that information, glad to have that sorted. Hopefully we will get he oil pressure gauge sorted too. It bugs me that the gauge is almost always pinned at 80 when driving. I want to find the 0-10 bar sender and see if that solves my gauge problem.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 25 2024, 09:49 AM

Ehhh....part on backorder and they cancelled it as no ETA available. Guess we will buy a plug and then tap it to accept the sender. I have emailed Palo Alto Speedo to see what they have to say about a solution.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 25 2024, 10:20 AM

That's the one i'm using:
https://patrickmotorsports.com/products/eng36oilps2pms?_pos=2&_sid=248ce684c&_ss=r

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 25 2024, 11:17 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 - Andy, I might have missed it, what pressures do you see at idle, 3K, etc.? Is the 140 gauge getting pinned when driving?

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 25 2024, 11:53 AM

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 25 2024, 03:28 PM

Thanks.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 26 2024, 07:32 AM

Looks like my path forward may be to swap in a 0-10 bar dual sender to address the pressure gauge and warning light and then send my tach/oil pressure combo gauge to Hartmut at Palo Alto Speedo to swap in a 0-140 PSI gauge to match the sender. That should give me accurate pressure readings. Once the rain starts, I will do that.

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Sep 26 2024, 02:48 PM

^ This car looks great, and very interesting on the wheel/tire combo. Curious how those all-season Falkens are for grip on a 914—do they feel "all-season," or like a performance tire?

Asking as I run Falken's UHP all-season on a 991, which sounds like a misnomer but shocks everyone who tries it. It's far closer to the UHP summer performance Michelin PS4S than it should be, and is a lot quieter and great in the rain as well.

All-seasons have come a long way in recent years, with a set of Michelin A/S3s being awesome on our 500 Abarth, but the last set I tried on my 914 8~ years ago were pretty mediocre...at best.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 29 2024, 01:04 PM

I think I am going to try John Bell for this gauge modification. The work I have seen is top notch. Anyone have a contact number for him? If so, please PM it to me.

Posted by: mepstein Sep 29 2024, 01:18 PM

I just pm’d you.
I can’t recommend him enough. Super guy, super great work.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 29 2024, 02:07 PM

Thanks Mark. I have seen his work and agree 100%. I called and left him a message as well as sending him an email with a couple pics.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 27 2024, 07:02 PM

OK, we got the 0-10 Bar oil pressure sender, dual-pole unit with the adapter swapped onto the engine today...kind of a biatch to get in there. My next move is to send my gauge to John Bell for him to match the gauge to the sender, 0-140 lbs. I will probably do that in about a month when it starts raining as the car will be down for about a month with the gauges out.

Posted by: 930cabman Oct 28 2024, 12:16 PM

When does it end?

Great project and I will admit I wish this one was in my stable

Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 28 2024, 03:14 PM

Right? I think we are getting close to the end...maybe. I really enjoy my car and the only thing that will stop me "upgrading" is if my wife lets me buy a '98 993 S coupe; I really love that body style, we had a '97 coupe we bought new in '97 and I should have never sold it.

Oh, No, I would not sell my Six.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 20 2025, 12:59 PM

OK, finally getting back to working on may list of things I still want to do. I pulled the gauges and shipped them off to John Bell. I can't wait to get them back in about 5 weeks. I am having the "scale" corrected to match the oil pressure sender as well as a little creative stuff. Should look pretty cool.

Posted by: mb911 Jan 20 2025, 02:29 PM

Similar to mine.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 20 2025, 02:56 PM

Well thought out; I did not want to have to add extra gauges as I wanted to stay close to stock-ish in appearance.

Posted by: Steve Jan 21 2025, 11:26 AM

Looking good!!