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Posted by: 930cabman Feb 25 2024, 06:44 AM

Somewhat getting my a** kicked trying to get a conversion completed. We have a decent chassis and a fresh 2.7 that has made the rounds from Ollies and Eksten's. Still running a small business and often prioritize kids/grandkids when it comes to free time. It is coming up on two years and currently attempting to work through oil lines, exhaust, do I need an external cooler or not??

All the guys who have done them, would you do it again?

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 25 2024, 06:46 AM

Absolutely!


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Posted by: nditiz1 Feb 25 2024, 06:56 AM

I would definitely do it again, if I have a good running 6 to put in.

Weld the mount
Cut holes for tank
Install engine
Slight wiring
Enjoy!

I was planning to put a front cooler in my 2.4 due to it getting hot.

Posted by: mlindner Feb 25 2024, 06:57 AM

Yes, mine took 8 years but all worth it. Best, Mark

Posted by: mate914 Feb 25 2024, 07:50 AM

You are far north. If the engine is bone stock and not taken to the Glenn. I would drive it. You might be able to get away with a Setrab and fan under rear trunk.
The 9146 project I'm on has been 4 years plus, and almost finished.
Spending time with your kids and grand kids is more important than any 914....
Matt

Posted by: Luke M Feb 25 2024, 07:52 AM

Hi John,


Having done 3 conversions and worked on a few org 6's in the past. I'd have to say yes I'd do it again. I may not be working as fast now a days but I'd do another 6 conv. I may do one with my son here in a few years. Just need to find the right chassis for it as I have several 6 parts on hand.

With that said, what issues are you having with on the oil system?
A 2.7 should have a front oil cooler. The exhaust is pretty straight forward.

I'm actually working on getting my brothers 3.0 conv front oil cooler setup mocked up and installed here sometime this spring.

LMK if I can help.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 25 2024, 08:49 AM

Absolutely! Even though my car is an original 6, it really doesn't matter once that engine is out. We are just getting started on a swap from the 3.2 with Motronic injection to a '95 3.6 out of a 993. The driving experience with the 3.2 was crazy; I can't wait to drive it with the 3.6.

Regardless of your 6 engine size, I would still add an external oil cooler/thermostat. I have had had a few variations of coolers over the decades on 3 different original 6 cars:

1. 2 VW 411 coolers, 1 behind each foglight grill with a thermostat in the engine compartment on the firewall. We had flexible SS line run uo the driver side long, behind the rocker to connect it all up and we vented it out the inner wheel well. Worked quite well, but I lost my foglight. As you can see, it was very crude, it was 1984, and these cars were really not worth a lot.



2. On my current 6, it came to me with 1/2" copper pipe plumbed and soldered from the engine all the way to the front, behind the passenger side rocker and across the nose and ball again- think large trombone style and that worked well- or so I was told by the former owner.



3. My current, and favorite set-up, is using a set of GT hard lines up the driver side long that terminate just inside the driver footwell. Then I have a rubber hose with AN fittings that go from there to inside the frunk and connect to a Setrab oil cooler mounted across the nose. Currently, the thermostat is mounted in the trunk but that is being relocated to where I believe it should be located, on the engine firewall to the right of the motor mount. That is what I had with the 3.2 and it worked fine. I did have the GT opening in my bumper as well as valance. But I did not cut the nose open- we just pulled the 5 rubber plugs out of the nose panel rot allow air to flow.



4. We are now going to replace that Setrab cooler with a larger cooler, about 1" taller and 3" wider and a slosh thicker. We will add 3 4" fans right on the backside of the cooler to pull air through the cooler and we will then have an aluminum shroud that covers and seals all of that, venting it out the louvered floor of the trunk.

Anyway, hopefully that gives you a few ideas.

Cheers,
Michael

Posted by: 914Toy Feb 25 2024, 01:05 PM

Absolutely! My 2.7 with Weber carbs and SC cam grind, plus Clewett crank fire, transformed the car. I recommend a front oil cooler for total peace of mind.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 25 2024, 01:13 PM

Hold tight - might be a nice real /6 with a 2.7L coming up for sale soon.

Posted by: brant Feb 25 2024, 01:24 PM

Front cooler

Posted by: mb911 Feb 25 2024, 02:36 PM

Heck yes I would do it over 100 times. I run a front cooler even with my 2.4 just because

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 25 2024, 03:47 PM

Needs a few odds and ends

Posted by: mlindner Feb 25 2024, 04:06 PM

When the car is painted and you start bolting on shiny new parts, thats when the fun starts and you can see the progress. The first drive is just the frosting.

Posted by: Steve Feb 25 2024, 05:27 PM

Definitely worth it. I bought my 75 914 back in 86 with immediate plans to convert it to a six. I bought a used 1974 2.7 with a top end overhaul. Bought new PMO webers back then $1k with everything. Headers, motor mount and muffler from MSDS. I tried to run it without an external oil cooler in California but it ran too hot, so I bought a setrab cooler from PMS and the shroud from Getty. Very simple conversion. Back date the flywheel to a 2.0 six flywheel and MB911 and others sell aftermarket tin, oil tanks and mounts. I did it in my garage with a Haynes manual, floor jack and jack stands. In 2000 I switched to a stock 3.2 and now I’m upgrading to a 3.6. Lots of pro’s and con’s, but the 2.7 with webers works the best with a stock geared trans for a street and occasional auto cross car.

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 25 2024, 06:26 PM

Sounds near unanimous, thank you all and I guess keep the course is the answer. Being in the Northeast I will run her for a while without an external(front) oil cooler. I have seen the oil thermostats are labeled as 180 degrees. Don't we want closer to 210 - 220 oil temps?

Currently fitting the Goodridge ends to the SST flex hose is kicking my a**. I ordered the tool from Pegasus earlier to assist with this operation.

Is there a magic crows foot to reach the -16 fitting on the bottom of the oil tank in the fenderwell?

Posted by: mepstein Feb 25 2024, 07:10 PM

I find it’s better to attach the hose to the bottom of the tank and then slide it into place. It sort of rolls in.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Feb 25 2024, 07:18 PM

Yes ^ 10

I wish this internet mythology of 180 degree oil would go away but I accept that it will continue forever.

There’s hardly a modern car running oil at 180F under load, and both the oil, and engines last much longer than they ever have. This isn’t a coincidence.

Likewise don’t let people fool you that air cooled is different. Air cooled motorcycles and cars have always run hotter oil than water pumpers. Oil doesn’t magically disintegrate at 250F as some would have you believe.

Posted by: mate914 Feb 25 2024, 07:46 PM

Running the fan with right sized pulleys and heat block off plates on engine both help with cooling. 2.7's do run on the hotter size. I have a 2.7 with mod S cams and j&E pistons getting ready for the street. We are running the Taormina racing oil block off with oil cooler up front. The oil line fitting kit from Pegasus helps a lot.
Here to help.
Matt

Posted by: worn Feb 25 2024, 08:03 PM

That photo says it all. A magnet for the ladies.
Also, I sometimes start to chuckle when I drive because it is so fun. Such a great car. I can also say that my rustoration of a four cylinder has taken longer.

Posted by: worn Feb 25 2024, 08:08 PM

My cooler is beside the transmission. I want the frunk space. Uses a pair of fans. Since I like to cover distances I also added taller fourth and fifth gears.

Posted by: peteinjp Feb 26 2024, 09:15 AM

When the P.O. built my car he stuck with the CIS pistons to keep the compression low (single plug, rs cams, MFI about 220hp) and with a high efficiency engine mounted cooler the oil maxes out at 230f on hot days pushing hard or in traffic.

How hot is too hot was discussed a bunch in http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=364138&hl=cooler&st=0

Still considering options but I've decided to live with it as is for the time being.

Even though I have one /6 I'm considering building another. Its a fun ride!

Pete

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 26 2024, 10:56 AM

Pete,

I consider 230F a maximum oil temp for short periods only. I will try running without an external oil cooler and see what happens. Thanks for more positive comments in the YES column

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 26 2024, 10:58 AM

no way, cannot find all of the parts easily, parts are way too expensive, and try to find a mechanic to do it!!!! NO WAY own a nice fuel injected four cylinder and buy a 911 to complement it

Posted by: ClayPerrine Feb 26 2024, 11:31 AM

Absolutely,

The 914 should have been built with a six, and a better one than the 2.0L T motor it came with. It is a far better handling chassis than a 911, and way more fun to drive.

Fitting a 911 engine is not a trivial matter, but fairly easy. The chassis was designed for it.

And it makes the car so much more fun to drive.

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 26 2024, 01:56 PM

And I was having a ball with our 2056 with twin Webers.

Can't wait to have this baby going, with everyones help here, it will be coming closer.

Thanks all

Posted by: mepstein Feb 26 2024, 04:23 PM

George - if you need help finding the parts, Just let me know. 95% of it can be found from the vendors on this site
Maddog motorsports for engine mounts
MSDS for headers
914-6Werkshop for oil tank, engine tin and more
Lots of other small but needed parts from the many other vendors and enthusiasts.
Not everyone can afford a real six but with the parts above, they can make one similar to what Porsche made, in their own garage.
There are shops across the country that can do the conversion but many successful diy.
Restoration Design and Dansk set real metal flares if you like the GT look.

Posted by: campbellcj Feb 26 2024, 04:47 PM

I really love my -6 conversion as well, much more than the stock 2.0/four and big-bore four I had previously. I'm not sure I would do it again from scratch these days vs. trying to find a good starting point or finished car. Even if you have shops do a lot of the major work, it's still a huge project management effort, cost and wait.

Looking back to be honest I sometimes wish I had not modified my car to such an extreme degree as it was probably 80% as fun in its lower-powered narrowbody config back about 20 yrs ago, and the flares and other changes incurred a lot of added cost and compromised it more heavily towards track-usage. Bigger tires are a tad more expensive. But it's a total blast and could fairly easily be reconfigured back to more streetable hot-rod.

Re external coolers - I would do it but suppose it somewhat depends on your locale and usage. I've had a large one up front for 20 years as my car was set up for tracks like Willow Springs with >100F ambient temps in summertime. (I have a dyno sheet from a POC event there which shows 104F.)

Posted by: targa72e Feb 26 2024, 11:59 PM

Do it again, Absolutely. In fact I am building a second as my "keeper" with what I learned and can do better second time around. Keeping first until second is done ( I need an example of how things go together as my second car is total stripped .
I would plan on a cooler with a 2.7.

john

Posted by: JmuRiz Feb 27 2024, 08:14 AM

2 years isn't so bad, I'm going on 15 on mine I'm sure it'll be nice when/if it ever gets done. In hind-sight someone like me should have just kept me really good running 2.0 (carb'ed with a mild-hot carb cam) and enjoyed it. Final house project is starting this spring and the kiddo is almost 10. As I say every year, this might be the year
I have all the parts, so that hard part is done.

When it's all said and done I'm sure it'll be a blast having a classic car that is modern car quick

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 27 2024, 10:35 AM

Getting more unanimous by the minute, thanks again to all contributors. This a project management job, getting all the parts/pieces to flow together. More than one respondent has mentioned the word "blast" when describing the driving sensation.

Our 930 is cool, the '75 911S is cool, '75 914 2056 is cool, Alfa spider is cool, but this is sounding the most cool of all.

thanks for all the help

Posted by: Root_Werks Feb 27 2024, 11:17 AM

I would do it again. Heck, I bought an already converted 914-6 because I didn't want to build one and wound up redoing everything anyway.

The only caveat about building another conversion is I wouldn't convert a nice 914-4 anymore. Good 914's are out there, but getting harder to find.

Posted by: 914dave Feb 27 2024, 04:53 PM

Would do it again. The performance is outstanding with the 3.2. I do un the front oil cooler. Never gets above 200. That’s summer time in traffic after a long run. I even installed an electric fan to pull air thru when in traffic. Pulls the heat right out and will run at 190°.

Posted by: mate914 Feb 27 2024, 07:25 PM

Car looks good Dave. Hope to see you this summer.
Matt

Posted by: worn Feb 27 2024, 08:48 PM

[l, but this is sounding the most cool of all.

thanks for all the help
[/quote]
Because it is.

Posted by: Tdskip Feb 27 2024, 08:53 PM

Is it worth it, sure.

Just remember to double the time and cost expected to get it just right.

Ok, Ok, that is slightly mellow dramatic but you get the idea.

Posted by: SKL1 Feb 27 2024, 09:23 PM

Have had mine since 12-70 and did the suspension, brakes, sway bars, etc back in the mid 70's when you could easily get the parts at your local P+A dealer (and a 20% off coupon won at a local PCA event helped!)... sold my real 6 in early 2000's and regretted every day since but I was never getting rid of my first car so knew eventually I'd put the engine in it to complete the process.
Have the 2.4 ready to assemble- hopefully doing a repaint and will install the engine mount and get body ready for the oil tank this year as I'm not getting any younger!!

Posted by: davehg Feb 27 2024, 11:46 PM

I’m on my second 914-6 conversion, the first was already converted but needed a tear down and rebuild. Surprisingly that only took about a year, whereas the second took five years start to finish and is just now nearly complete.

I sometimes think the journey of the build is more engaging then the finished car but I’m a glutton for punishment.

There are few other cars that are this fun.

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 28 2024, 01:15 PM

More details:



1. considering a heat shield between the header/oil cooler
2. -16 oil line fitting is 1/8" from header, dimple header?
3. Large 1/2" or so gap from top of engine tin to rubber gasket

It must end somewhere

If I was doing this for a customer the hours rack up quickly

Posted by: jims914 Feb 28 2024, 02:26 PM

This is my 75 914 for 42 years. 3.2 engine, A/C ,programable injection, front oil cooler,
915 trans, C2 F&R brakes, 911 dash, 911 seats, 911 console, ect.
PHX Flight concord winer.[attachmentid=903562] [attachmentid=903562][attachmentid=903562][attachmentid=903562]


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Posted by: mate914 Feb 28 2024, 02:39 PM

1. No
2. No
3. Don't worry about that yet.

I like to wrap or sleeve the oil lines from the oil cooler connection back to the oil tank. I have never done it near the oil cooler exit. Keep that open.

Matt

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 28 2024, 03:32 PM

Thanks Matt, nice pics btw

Posted by: brant Feb 28 2024, 03:41 PM

All of our lines are sleeved with heat sleeve
Including exiting the cooler

Posted by: mate914 Feb 28 2024, 05:52 PM

Just keep pushing on the project. Small steps every day. This is the six now.

Posted by: mate914 Feb 28 2024, 06:01 PM

This is the bottom of Mrs. Murphy a track car that spent its last life at the Glenn for years. Car was 100% track car before me. The heat guard/insulation wrapped around the header was the only thing protecting the oil line for a long time. Do I think it’s right or correct, no. But it is an example of what has been done and used.
Matt

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 29 2024, 01:11 PM

I would call this a necessary tool for assembling the stainless steel braided hoses used with these conversions. Try without the correct tools and see how far you get. I was unaware this existed until I found the information on the Pegasus website. Patrick made no mention of this

Posted by: campbellcj Feb 29 2024, 04:18 PM

Curious what the actual tool looks like & does. I have a set of aluminum AN wrenches but do not recall using any other tools in particular when I did some of the plumbing on mine.

Posted by: brant Feb 29 2024, 05:05 PM

It helps assemble the an fitting into hose fully and without the stab wounds associated with the duct tape method

I’ve built race cars both ways
Wouldn’t go back

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 29 2024, 05:12 PM

I will get a pic tomorrow, but the tool is basically a funnel to get the hose into the fitting. It's a tight fit and the small stainless steel wires always get in the way

Posted by: mepstein Feb 29 2024, 06:07 PM

It makes inserting the hose into the fitting so easy, it’s fun. I could give the tool and a piece of ss hose to my wife and she could fit it in a minute. I showed how they work to a long time race car mechanic and he immediately bought a set. The other tool to buy are hose cutting shears. Sure, you can use a cutting wheel but then you have to clean the hose from all the debris. The shears take seconds, then a half minute using the kool tool and your hoses will look perfect. Definitely worth the money.
When you get the kool tool, you might think it’s a bit pricey for the money. That is until you try it. Genius idea for a pita process.

Posted by: Optimusglen Mar 1 2024, 08:12 AM

I've had mine in for a few years now, with trips from Minnesota to Utah and back, and another from Minnesota to Idaho and back, I can say with 90% certainty that I would not do a 6-swap again, but I would likely do a Subaru swap of some sort.

Even now there's a small part of me that wants to pull the 6 out, sell it, and put a Suby in. Only real challenge there is that I cut off the old 4-cyl mounts when I put the 6 in...

Posted by: mepstein Mar 1 2024, 08:35 AM

You can still do a bulkhead mount using a Suby smallcar mount and some fab. Much less interference with headers than an engine cradle.


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Posted by: 930cabman Mar 1 2024, 08:36 AM

What size/tune did you go with for your conversion?

And it's not enough juice

I removed the /4 mounts also, but would probably not go back to a /4

btw: looks sweet

Posted by: gereed75 Mar 1 2024, 09:40 AM

Glenn, what are the reasons for your 90% of regret??

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 1 2024, 08:04 PM

Air Cooled - Six.. Type 4 Sale... Water Suby..Chev..

Posted by: campbellcj Mar 2 2024, 08:09 AM

Lol the mention of stab wounds gave me flashbacks of those many micro needle finger pricks - I'll have to add one of these to my toolbox!


I'm curious too about Glenn or anyone else with degrees of regret. Is it mainly around costs, which I can definitely relate to myself, or other factors?

Posted by: mb911 Mar 3 2024, 07:00 AM

I am sure it is cost. To that point my bad business sense I look at my parts and price them so I make some but many items net me 10-15% because I look at it from my perspective and how would I want to buy parts for the conversion

Posted by: mepstein Mar 3 2024, 08:12 AM

It would be 3X if it was 911 parts. Jimmy T makes an aluminum oil tank for a ‘72 and iirc, it’s $2k.

Posted by: Steve Mar 3 2024, 08:56 AM

His signature says 2.2. When I had a 2.7 Camrys and most other cars were faster 0-60. Still a 2.7 is the biggest and easiest to install. Backdate the flywheel and bolt it in. I hate KEP clutches. If I was budget constrained I would install a Subi EZ30.

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 3 2024, 04:50 PM

The Koul is necessary and HF has a set of SAE open wrenches for $60. It has the sizes needed to work the Goodridge fittings.

From what I can tell the lower tank fitting must be tightened when in place in the chassis. I am unable to roll the tank/hose into the fenderwell.

Someone must have a good 12 point crows foot for this fitting, still searching

Posted by: mepstein Mar 3 2024, 05:15 PM

I’ve rolled them in with both a stock tank and one of Ben’s. It’s like a 90 degree motion to fit the tank with the hose mounted but works pretty well. Iirc, the hose points to the door and you start the tank in the wheel well ( minus the wheel) then it pivots into place. Ben/MB911 can probably explain better than me. I think I bought a Mac 12 pt crows foot to try but it wasn’t the right solution.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892

Posted by: Optimusglen Mar 4 2024, 08:31 AM

I don't regret that I did the 6 when I did, but I don't think I would do it again. Main consideration is the smiles-per-dollar. The 6 sounds great, and it's a fun amount of power when you're not stop light racing. Yeah, factory rebuild 2.2T (130hp) with Zenith 40TIN.

One of the big things that made me go with the 6 originally was to keep the pedigree, something that matters less and less to me these days.

I built the 6 myself, in my garage. The 6 build went smoothly, but some of the costs and timetables involved are not something that would be agreeable for me today. The case went to Ollies for 8 months and was around $3500 if I remember correctly. The heads took 2 times as long as expected, and $1k more than expected. Every week I was putting in additional orders to Pelican, with shipping wait times seemingly not effected by additional shipping cost spent.

And then, after it's all together, driving it is almost a constant worry. Sure I did trial by fire with 2 cross country trips, but someday I feel like it'll all go pear-shaped, with dollar signs shooting out the tailpipe and into the abyss.

I've had semi-serious thoughts about pulling the 6 and selling it now, now that it's fairly proven, and starting the Subaru journey. This year is when I start body work, so the engine will be out for that, I guess time will tell if it goes back in.

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 4 2024, 09:16 AM

For a novice (first timer) I am about $20.k + and 2+ years into this so far and the time and the oops and more $$. It's funny, I recently found Subi case/crank on the curbside. I don't know a thing about them, but seems interesting.Not sure if I can live long enough for all of this fun

Thanks again for all contributors

Posted by: gereed75 Mar 4 2024, 09:22 AM

Yea, I get it. All valid points. I guess most of it comes down to what matters to you.

It is alot about pedigree to me. The aircooled six is the heart of old school Porsche goodness IMHO. And a six close behind your ears is ultimate way to get close to that heart. Mine is an original six so I guess that makes a difference in the pedigree part.

I get the constant paranoia of blowing up into a big money event. I built my own motor also but after several years of running it and even a track weekend I am over the worry. My car is a driver, so less paranoia maybe. I guess I look at it as part of the experience.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 4 2024, 09:52 AM

It's funny how our thinking evolves on things. Initially, back in 2010, since my car's original engine was long gone, I was going to do a GT bodied car. I switched to a stock-bodied car because I came to feel there were only so many original '71 914-6 cars left on the planet. But... I still had no original engine. So we slipped the fresh 3.2 in the car and it looked stock from the outside to all but the highly trained eye (oil cooler modification to front valance and deep-six Fuchs).

Now, after over 9K miles of smiles and driving, the 3.2 is on its way to Wisconsin and my car is getting ready for the 3.6. That 3.6 will remain a stock 3.6 with Ben's SS heat exchangers and a Dansk Sport 2-in, 1-out muffler. I hope we can run the stock air-box, but I really doubt that is going to fit. I already have the PMS K&N air filter kit just in case.

Of course we also are increasing the oil cooler size and adding 3 fans directly behind it to (hopefully) manage the oil temperature.

I never for a second thought about something other than a Porsche 6 motor, despite the obvious costs over other choices. I really love my car and enjoy driving it.

Posted by: porschetub Mar 4 2024, 02:30 PM

Interesting reading comments from conversion owners, I consider myself lucky with my conversion as I had the motor purchased many years before doing my 73 2.0 ,original plan was to find a good 911 roller and fit that motor but the few I found were so rotten importing panels to repair wasn't within my plan as freight to my country was crazy ,came to the decision that I didn't want to do restoration on a rusty chassis besides.
Hooked up with a guy on NZ VW site and one thing and another lead to me purchasing the 914 as a complete roller that was restored ,the guy had done all the hard work but wanted out of the conversion as he needed the money to complete bodywork on an early 911 he was getting restored which no surprise was rather rusty .
I was lucky again as the 914 could be purchased as a package less engine ,I picked up genuine oil tank and most hoses ,new set of headers and used 911 muffler, NOS front rubber mount and bracket ,plus many other related parts for a very fair price .
Roller had 944T Brembo brake conversion , 911 handbrake setup ,factory style replica bulkhead mount welded in ,911 gauges fitted but not wired , bodywork holes cut for oil tank and more.
I payed a great price for the roller and engine but still an expensive exercise that mounts up with all the bits and bobs added,for that reason I wouldn't do it again ,however there is something special about the 911 motor in our cars and IMO waters down the cost situation.
Cheers.

Posted by: MoveQik Mar 4 2024, 05:07 PM

I would do it again and again! I sort of did :-). I'm on round two of my six conversion. First a 3.2 and now a 3.4. Worth every penny and headache!


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Posted by: brant Mar 4 2024, 05:44 PM

Mike.

Is yours the pretty red car in the pic?

Hope you and the whole family are doing well

Posted by: TROJANMAN Mar 5 2024, 10:33 AM

As of today.............No.

I missed my 2.0 the day I gave it to my dad, and I am happy to drive it every time I visit.

That car was fun, reliable, and easy for Brant to work on.

But then again, I can give you a more informed answer when my 6 is completed,,,,,,,,soon.


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Posted by: JmuRiz Mar 5 2024, 02:39 PM

Love your car, what's your oil-cooler setup again?

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 5 2024, 02:45 PM

Where are you at with your current 6 project?

Posted by: MoveQik Mar 7 2024, 11:56 AM

Thank you! Thats an old pic. At the time I had the oil cooler under the rear trunk. It turned out to be not enough. Patrick Motorsoprts moved it up to the front for me. This is what I have now -


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Posted by: raynekat Mar 7 2024, 12:50 PM

What a great question.....would I do the six conversion again?
It was tough and expensive to find the quality or factory parts that I wanted in the build.
Could only imagine how much harder that part of the build would be.
I'd definitely change some things that I did as I was learning as I went.
Definitely start with a better base for the car.
Mine was in pretty poor condition and took tons of time and money to make it right.
It was fun.
But I think my next Porsche project will be back in the 911 longhood camp where I began my silly journey with these German sports cars.

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 7 2024, 12:54 PM

And this did the trick?

How high was you oil temps getting

Posted by: TROJANMAN Mar 7 2024, 01:01 PM

Coming from one of the largest 914 parts suppliers

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 8 2024, 01:28 PM

And from the good doctor himself.

It is a project management job with many bits required, but the overwhelming response is a solid YES.

Thanks again to all contributors

Posted by: mb911 Mar 8 2024, 01:56 PM

I would also add this. If you stay with 2.7 or less it really simplifies things. No front oil cooler, no special flywheel and pretty straightforward. You still can get mounts for $350, sheet metal, $450, flywheel, $300, headers, $600, muffler $400, modded cooler $150, modded shift linkage $150, DIY wiring harness free, oil tank set up and oil lines $1000,last thing to decide if your induction so let’s just say 3200 in parts without including induction to get rolling. Seems like a decent deal to be honest.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 8 2024, 02:04 PM

You don't live in Texas. Here a 2.4 needs an external oil cooler to keep the oil temps down on a hot Texas day. Otherwise your oil temps end up over 250.

But I agree about the rest.

Posted by: mepstein Mar 8 2024, 02:10 PM

Yea, like I mentioned, if George isn’t into conversions, there are plenty of people who are. Call Ben/MB911 if you want one done. I wish I knew him when I had flares welded on my car.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 8 2024, 02:20 PM

Full disclaimer I did run a front cooler on my car and it’s a 2.4 and we get pretty hot summers here in the mid 80s most the summer and a few weeks of 90 plus and I don’t drive my car then mostly because it runs like crap with the availability of quality fuels

Posted by: mb911 Mar 8 2024, 02:21 PM

Happy to help. How I read into George’s statement is that in reflection they are only original once and I think he is speaking from that perspective

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 8 2024, 02:26 PM

TIA, can you offer any wisdom with regards to "roll in " the oil tank with the AN 16 fitting (in the front portion of the wheelwell) secured. I am hoping to not cut a perfect lower fender to tighten the fitting.

Posted by: mepstein Mar 8 2024, 02:29 PM

One of my favorites.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 8 2024, 02:36 PM

1st the -16 is in my opinion to large for the tanks. I do not roll them in but depending on tank the 1” or 2 “ fittings for the filler and vent may require trimming. I put the tanks into the opening then put the fittings in at that point then bolt the tank up. It’s really the best way I have found.

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 8 2024, 03:00 PM

The PMS tank is setup for the -16 hose/fitting. Also, I did remove about 3/8" from the vent tube to allow access. Is there a magic crows foot socket for this?

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Mar 8 2024, 06:51 PM

Interesting question.

For:
1. The sound (!!!)
2. Pace and power
3. Takes 914 from fun/flickable/casual sports car to something less flickable but more exotic feeling—I'd say more exotic than an early 911 while being more sporting than, say, a period 246 Dino (which is more of a touring car that looks like a sports car than a sports car). Bottom line is the car feels even more special, if that makes sense? A 914 with a sweet flat six is pretty wonderful on the right day.

Against:
1. Cost, both for engine and all other upgrades needed and recommended
2. No longer quite the light, flickable momentum car it was with the four…partly due to more weight and partly due to a less approachable/more serious nature (both can probably be offset with more mods?)
3. No longer as nice on the freeway as it was with the fuel-injected Type IV, to the point I carry earplugs in the car. YMMV, and some of it is carbs…but a lot of it is engine noise (chains and overall harmonics). The engine noises are heavenly around town and with top off, but can get tiresome with the top on. Again, this is my car with a carb'd 2.2 with a factory airbox, and thus may not be like other six conversions.

If I had it to do over again? Yes, I probably would—though I might also consider some other options. Can I ever seem myself undoing it? No way.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 8 2024, 07:13 PM

No it’s not it’s a 22mm fitting as are mine and that’s OD

Posted by: mb911 Mar 8 2024, 07:16 PM

Meaning that 22mm ID fitting adapter are all about -12 so no reason to go to -16

Posted by: mb911 Mar 8 2024, 07:47 PM

And to expand on this the inlet o ring to the oil pump under the engine mounted cooler inlet is the same size so the -16 is really a waste of space and money.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 9 2024, 06:45 AM

For us, the mid 80s is a nice early spring day (middle of last week). Summer is 105 to 115 during the heat of the day. So an external oil cooler is not optional. It is a necessity.

The flip side is that in winter, we close the schools when two flakes of snow hit the ground. And that usually melts off by noon. 70 degrees on Christmas day is not the norm, but it is fairly common.

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 9 2024, 06:56 AM

maybe Patrick has a secret https://patrickmotorsports.com/collections/oil-cooling-and-delivery-system/products/oil901107710an12pms

Waiting on their reply

Posted by: Luke M Mar 9 2024, 08:20 AM

I had this exact PMS kit. All it does is it allows you to modify a 911 engine oil cooler to use in a 914. It shortens the inlet pipe so the old inlet gets cut off and new welded on. Then you fit the -16 hose from the engine cooler to the oil tank. It uses 1, SS -16 hose/fittings to connect the oil tank to cooler. No need for 2 lines and 90 degree engine oil cooler like the org 6. I did not end up using this setup and sold it a while ago. I did keep the steel return tube as I will have a need for that. I ended up buying a new 914-6 oil cooler and lines. That's what I'll be using in my 6 once it's done. I'll be running a 3.4 6 with a front cooler and Ben's GT steel lines and associated hardware/lines. The oil line on the tank to engine cooler can be a pain but I install/clock hose prior to installing the tank into the chassis. I Never had an issue installing or removing an org 6 oil tank. I can not say the same for an aftermarket oil tank as I never installed one.

Posted by: TROJANMAN Mar 9 2024, 09:37 AM

Your answers are schizophrenic

But I agree with them. This is exactly why everyone needs a minimum of TWO 914s.



If you plan on wanting a daily driver, the 4 is the way to go.
And this is probably why I would answer NO to the question.
I much prefer driving the 4 every day, than driving the six only on nice days.

YMMV


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Posted by: mepstein Mar 9 2024, 10:38 AM

Nothing that you can’t do on your own. Kits are nice but the shortened 911 return tube didn’t work on my 3.2 with heat exchangers. Probably fine with headers.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 9 2024, 11:22 AM

Nope same exact fittings I use on my tanks 22mm so any adapter screwed into that adapter reduces the size to just slightly larger than -12 . Trust me I have spent years researching it. I even worked with the guy that designed the Patrick tanks before Patrick took them over when he moved to Australia. No 2 ways to cut it. Basically you approximate .600 diameter of flow coming out of the tank and the same going into the oil pump. So the best thing to consider is the -16 stuff you have is kind of a holding tank. It is the best marketing ever just like k&n air filters.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 9 2024, 11:25 AM

Yup after supplying parts now for this for 7 years and doing more conversions then I can count I prefer going backwards and over the bell housing then forward for conversions way cleaner and away from the heat exchangers

Posted by: mepstein Mar 9 2024, 12:54 PM

Exactly what I’m planning what you already set up for me for my next conversion. Including the 993 headers.


I think it takes a conversion or two under your belt to get the feel for how everything goes together. The devils in the details.

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 9 2024, 06:55 PM

The details is always what makes it a success or so so. I am getting close to completion and can almost taste victory, today I managed to get the oil tank installed WITH the lower hose attached. Simple, remove the rotor and caliper.

The next one will be much easier for sure

Posted by: burton73 Mar 9 2024, 07:18 PM

As most of you know, I have a real 6 the 30 one made but back in the early 80s I had a 1974 2.0 factory black car that I converted to a 1979 3.0 911sc eng with the help of my old bud Galen Beaker. That was 40 years ago. The picture is very old and in bad shape, but you can make out the parts that you could just get at the local dealer. In Picture is my now 41 year old first daughter and my 70 Dodge Challenger Convertible in Hemi orange

The car had an almost new 911sc front suspension ad 5 lug Gas Burners. I never finished the conversion and used the Factory fuel injection on my 79 911sc that I blow up the air box on. It was the time when people started to use the pop off valves on the air boxes.

After having it at the body shop for 2 years I never finished it and sold it with just what you see for $6,000. To a 356 guy that told me he hated the 5 lug wheels.

After I got a fast ride at a buddy’s factory 6 with an SC Eng. in it all I wanted was a six.
Today I think it is easer that ever to do a six converstion in.

Take care buds,

Bob B Burton

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 10 2024, 06:06 AM

I used Larry Eksten build my 2.7 and he sourced a new correct 914/6 oil cooler so the adapter fitting was not used. Looking back I would not use this kit again as I also changed the hard pipe as supplied.

Posted by: mlindner Mar 10 2024, 08:25 AM

Ben, is the return line from the engine block to the tank over the bell housing one complete hose. Are you selling them. Mine go's under the headers to the front....not smart. Mark

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 10 2024, 08:52 AM

You are running the PMS kit? I can see the hard line heading towards the firewall

Posted by: mb911 Mar 10 2024, 09:51 AM

Yup it’s pretty easy. The PMS stuff leaves a lot to be desired. I have shared that with many but they get star struck because of the 3.6 builds they do and the nice facilities.

My setup is just AN hose , 2 90’, 2 22mm to -12 adapters, 1 -12 straight and 1 double male -12 adapter. Again done many of these and this is the cleanest setup hands down as it stays out of the way of headers, heat exchangers, engine mounts. You just need 1 Adel clamp to bolt to the side cover to retain the hose. It’s the KISS method and for some reason many folks like to over complicate it

Posted by: 930cabman Mar 11 2024, 11:30 AM

made this extension of the PMS hard pipe, sounds as though it's easier and more out of the way to go up and over with this line. Next time ....

Posted by: mepstein Mar 11 2024, 02:04 PM

I have to find the pics that Rory sent me of his setup but it had some cool mods. One that really caught my attention was the hard lines from the thermostat to the GT hard lines. This eliminates any kink in the hose and just looks cool. Ben helped me duplicate the lines and made up an over the transmission line as well. Here’s a quick mock up of the system. It’s missing a line and fitting but you get the idea. The stock Porsche thermostat mounts in the engine compartment at the lower left firewall.

There are ways to do it cheaper and easier but I wanted to try it this way. My other conversion has a soft line for the return of the front mounted cooler on the passenger side and a soft line to the front on the driver side. No thermostat and no engine mounted oil cooler. It seems to works well, just different.


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