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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Minnesota or Wisconsin Shop for Metal Work
Posted by: collinvon Mar 28 2024, 03:33 PM
I have a 1972 914 that hasn't been driven for a few years as the metal has been poorly patched over the years and needs a pretty healthy overhaul in order to be road ready again. I'm based in the twin cities in Minnesota and am hoping to find a recommendation for a shop in MN or western WI to bring my 914 to for a pretty serious structural overhaul.
I had plans on doing the work myself, but have two little guys that I'd rather be spending my time with at the moment.
Any advice or direction is helpful.
Thanks in advance!
Posted by: worn Mar 28 2024, 07:45 PM
I have a 1972 914 that hasn't been driven for a few years as the metal has been poorly patched over the years and needs a pretty healthy overhaul in order to be road ready again. I'm based in the twin cities in Minnesota and am hoping to find a recommendation for a shop in MN or western WI to bring my 914 to for a pretty serious structural overhaul.
I had plans on doing the work myself, but have two little guys that I'd rather be spending my time with at the moment.
Any advice or direction is helpful.
Thanks in advance!
Good choice, little ones over rust. I do my own here in Madison, but then my boys done grown up.
Posted by: mb911 Mar 29 2024, 04:42 AM
I do that kind of work but very selective. I have offered mobile work as well depending on what work you need done.
Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 29 2024, 06:52 AM
Booked out for a year at least on my own cars. But you never know... 
Show us some photos of the issues. That couple help encourage (or discourage LOL) involvement from one if the crazies here.
Posted by: collinvon Mar 29 2024, 09:00 AM
Booked out for a year at least on my own cars. But you never know...
Show us some photos of the issues. That couple help encourage (or discourage LOL) involvement from one if the crazies here.
Haha sounds good. Here is a pic of the floor pan which shows the extent of some of the fiberglass repairs. The hell hole is pretty bad, and the firewall has some issues as well, but I don't have great pictures of either of those. Looks like it's gonna be a helluva AutoAtlanta bill.
Posted by: collinvon Mar 29 2024, 09:01 AM
I do that kind of work but very selective. I have offered mobile work as well depending on what work you need done.
I don't know the exact extent of it, but it doesn't look great structurally. The doors are aligned relatively well, but there is a lot of shoddy patchwork that needs to be undone. I'm really only concerned right now with getting the metalwork up to a decent point, and would love to do the motor / tinkering myself. It's just a bigger project than I want to take on right now for the structure of everything.
Posted by: collinvon Mar 29 2024, 09:03 AM
Pic of the car before sitting:
Posted by: mepstein Mar 29 2024, 10:12 AM
Booked out for a year at least on my own cars. But you never know...
Show us some photos of the issues. That couple help encourage (or discourage LOL) involvement from one if the crazies here.
Haha sounds good. Here is a pic of the floor pan which shows the extent of some of the fiberglass repairs. The hell hole is pretty bad, and the firewall has some issues as well, but I don't have great pictures of either of those. Looks like it's gonna be a helluva AutoAtlanta bill.
Rule of thumb is to take the cost of the metal and multiply it by about 10-20x to get the actual cost of the repair. Depends on what your metal guy charges per hour.
The other rule of thumb is whatever you can see is only the tip of the iceberg. Our cars rust from the inside out so count on 5-10x more rust than what pics will show.
Posted by: collinvon Mar 29 2024, 11:31 AM
Rule of thumb is to take the cost of the metal and multiply it by about 10-20x to get the actual cost of the repair. Depends on what your metal guy charges per hour.
The other rule of thumb is whatever you can see is only the tip of the iceberg. Our cars rust from the inside out so count on 5-10x more rust than what pics will show.
That's a bit higher than my expectations for cost estimates, but I'm shooting from the hip. I would imagine I'm not getting out of anywhere less than $10k, probably quite a bit more.
As far as the rust, I'm pretty certain it's not much better anywhere else.
There's certainly a point at which it's not worth salvaging, but I don't know exactly where that line would be.
Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 29 2024, 11:47 AM
I used to attend meetings in Lake Elmo once a month or sometimes every other month. I could have easily stopped over and checked it out. But since Covid some of our offices have moved to consolidate teams. I now report to our management team in St. Cloud So I don't get the the Metro now. 
Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 29 2024, 12:04 PM
Sarcasm:
Just add more fiberglass and pretend there is no problem. 
Serious:
Sell as is - find better car. The money you would spend on paying someone to fix to a decent standard is going to exceed the value of the chassis. Take the money from as-is sale, add money you would spend on metal work ($7-10k) and you can buy a decent driver
Alternatively, learn to weld and do metal work to a reasonable standard. It’s not hard, but it does take time to do it well which is why professional repair to high standard becomes uneconomical. Totally understand you’ve got little ones which puts a premium on time.
Posted by: collinvon Mar 29 2024, 12:17 PM
I used to attend meetings in Lake Elmo once a month or sometimes every other month. I could have easily stopped over and checked it out. But since Covid some of our offices have moved to consolidate teams. I now report to our management team in St. Cloud So I don't get the the Metro now.
Bummer! Well, if you ever make it down, let me know!
Posted by: collinvon Mar 29 2024, 12:20 PM
Sarcasm:
Just add more fiberglass and pretend there is no problem.
Serious:
Sell as is - find better car. The money you would spend on paying someone to fix to a decent standard is going to exceed the value of the chassis. Take the money from as-is sale, add money you would spend on metal work ($7-10k) and you can buy a decent driver
Alternatively, learn to weld and do metal work to a reasonable standard. It’s not hard, but it does take time to do it well which is why professional repair to high standard becomes uneconomical. Totally understand you’ve got little ones which puts a premium on time.
Haha, not a bad solution!
Selling is certainly an option. Ironically, my wife loves the car more than I do, and wants me to fix it, haha. I have a 2013 Boxster S that's my fun car for now, so I'm not pressed for time or anything. It's just been sitting a long time and I will need to move it somewhere in the next few months.
I have been following the market too closely lately, but is that the range (7-10) that drivable, but not show-ready cars are going for?
Posted by: Superhawk996 Mar 29 2024, 12:31 PM
My rough math was $3k -5k as is sale. Add $10k metal work. Add $10k paint job. Both metal and paint estimates are on low end.
$20-25k gets you a decent driver quality car.
There are deals to be had down in $13k range for a decent driver (sale + metal). But you have to search hard, accept non desirable model years, and be patient with the search.
Posted by: technicalninja Mar 29 2024, 01:00 PM
I do that kind of work but very selective. I have offered mobile work as well depending on what work you need done.
That's the guy I would want to do the work.
More than anyone else I know.
I'd like to "Vulcan Mind Meld" him...
He might not like what he got from me in the exchange!
Just having him as a mentor would be KICK ASS!
Posted by: collinvon Mar 29 2024, 02:41 PM
I do that kind of work but very selective. I have offered mobile work as well depending on what work you need done.
That's the guy I would want to do the work.
More than anyone else I know.
I'd like to "Vulcan Mind Meld" him...
He might not like what he got from me in the exchange!
Just having him as a mentor would be KICK ASS!
Thanks! I'll reach out!
Posted by: collinvon Mar 29 2024, 02:45 PM
Drivers side longitudinal (will pull passenger side Monday)
Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 29 2024, 07:41 PM
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: mb911 Mar 30 2024, 06:36 AM
Drivers side longitudinal (will pull passenger side Monday)
That doesn’t look terrible.
Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 30 2024, 09:30 AM
Post the other side.
Posted by: DaveB Mar 30 2024, 09:37 AM
Have you thought about just doing enough to make it road safe? Enjoy driving the kids around and get a ton of pictures. Later when they are teens, take some hobbyist welding classes with them and make it a family project to replace the hell hole, floor pans, etc. Pull together a cut list and spend the next several years finding parts with the kids. When they tell the person selling a part that is cost too much, you have success!
DaveB
Posted by: collinvon Mar 30 2024, 01:30 PM
Post the other side.
I'm gonna pull off the rocker panel on Monday, or Tuesday and see how it looks. Is the passenger side typically worse from the hell hole proximity?
Posted by: collinvon Mar 30 2024, 01:32 PM
Have you thought about just doing enough to make it road safe? Enjoy driving the kids around and get a ton of pictures. Later when they are teens, take some hobbyist welding classes with them and make it a family project to replace the hell hole, floor pans, etc. Pull together a cut list and spend the next several years finding parts with the kids. When they tell the person selling a part that is cost too much, you have success!
DaveB
It actually ran and drove before I parked it, but the reason it was parked is that it wasn't really adding more band aids in my opinion. Unfortunately, it seems like most of the metal work needs to be done for it to be reasonably safe to drive, but the good news is I'm not in a hurry at all. If it isn't worth putting money into, I think that would be my plan is just to let it sit until I can work on it with the kids. Thanks for the input!
Posted by: collinvon Mar 30 2024, 01:33 PM
That doesn’t look terrible.
Fingers crossed the passenger side is similar. The, is that a jack point?, is obviously flaky, but I have no idea where the line is drawn between salvageable and needs to be replaced.
Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 30 2024, 01:53 PM
Well it was done once. The key to value is doing it correctly.
Posted by: technicalninja Mar 30 2024, 02:11 PM
This recent thread shows what a bad one is like.
It's most impressive regarding the guy who is doing the work.
Limited tools and no shop at all!
Works coming out nice IMO.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=368359
Compare your car to that.
I agree with Ben. Pretty decent on driver's side.
It's the passenger's side that gets gang banged by acid then water due to the placement of the battery.
Almost guaranteed destruction if it's ever been rained on.
Rain overfills non-sealed battery, when charged overfilled battery pukes acid all over hell hole.
Lather, rinse, repeat, RUST...
Look at what Fred had to do at that point.
He's a BADASS in my book!
No way I'd go that far on a non-special car.
His is an LE however and that (almost!) makes it worth saving in my book.
He will be completely successful IMO.
And, if I run a battery in the stock location it will be, at a minimum, a sealed AGM unit that cannot leak anything...
Posted by: mepstein Mar 30 2024, 03:30 PM
Post the other side.
I'm gonna pull off the rocker panel on Monday, or Tuesday and see how it looks. Is the passenger side typically worse from the hell hole proximity?
Yes
Posted by: mepstein Mar 30 2024, 03:38 PM
This recent thread shows what a bad one is like.
It's most impressive regarding the guy who is doing the work.
Limited tools and no shop at all!
Works coming out nice IMO.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=368359
Compare your car to that.
I agree with Ben. Pretty decent on driver's side.
It's the passenger's side that gets gang banged by acid then water due to the placement of the battery.
Almost guaranteed destruction if it's ever been rained on.
Rain overfills non-sealed battery, when charged overfilled battery pukes acid all over hell hole.
Lather, rinse, repeat, RUST...
Look at what Fred had to do at that point.
He's a BADASS in my book!
No way I'd go that far on a non-special car.
His is an LE however and that (almost!) makes it worth saving in my book.
He will be completely successful IMO.
And, if I run a battery in the stock location it will be, at a minimum, a sealed AGM unit that cannot leak anything...
“gang banged“ - Too funny!
The chassis holds a lot of water and battery acid mixture in the inner sections. It sits there for long periods and causes the car to rust from the inside out. There are also a number of inner body panels that are foam filled. They are rust incubators as well. It takes a while to see the real rust issue and sometimes you won’t know the extent until you really dig deep.
Posted by: worn Mar 30 2024, 07:54 PM
That doesn’t look terrible.
Fingers crossed the passenger side is similar. The, is that a jack point?, is obviously flaky, but I have no idea where the line is drawn between salvageable and needs to be replaced.
I am going to guess that you are already hooked. Me, twice. Bought unaware of the problems. Don’t want to be the guy that hand’s problems to someone else. Don’t want to see it crushed. So, that leaves you, if you are me, with a MIG welder torch in your hand trying to learn how not to burn holes in the panel.
It can be done. It might help your children learn how to push metal around. It isn’t likely to be fast. I would be willing to swing by a couple of times, on I94.
Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 30 2024, 09:42 PM
That doesn’t look terrible.
Fingers crossed the passenger side is similar. The, is that a jack point?, is obviously flaky, but I have no idea where the line is drawn between salvageable and needs to be replaced.
I am going to guess that you are already hooked. Me, twice. Bought unaware of the problems. Don’t want to be the guy that hand’s problems to someone else. Don’t want to see it crushed. So, that leaves you, if you are me, with a MIG welder torch in your hand trying to learn how not to burn holes in the panel.
It can be done. It might help your children learn how to push metal around. It isn’t likely to be fast. I would be willing to swing by a couple of times, on I94.
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