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Posted by: bmangetspaid69 Apr 10 2024, 07:57 PM

Hi 914world,

I purchased this '74 914 about a year ago and recently went to a Porsche dealership to ask about some shops to do some body work (need floors and clean up some of the rust throughout) for a restoration project. They had one come over who said it would be near impossible for them to do and there is only 1 guy (in Vegas, I am in the midwest) who could do it, but it would cost $100k... thought they were joking but I guess not. Does anyone have any idea if this is real? / gotten body work done and have an estimate of how much body work should cost and if its possible to weld in new floor pans?

Posted by: bmangetspaid69 Apr 10 2024, 07:58 PM

Here are some more pics

Posted by: bmangetspaid69 Apr 10 2024, 07:59 PM

Last one

Posted by: rjames Apr 10 2024, 08:02 PM

The quote of $100k is high depending on what you're expecting them to do- and that's probably the right number if Porsche was going to do it. What are the other rust areas? Have you had the rockers off?

Posted by: bkrantz Apr 10 2024, 08:29 PM

Looks like at the very least you need a new floor, and likely have to deal with rust in other panels that attach to the floor. To do this even half right, that means careful undoing of original welds and/or surgical dissection of rusted panel sections. And then welding in new pieces. Some of these are available as reproductions but others have to come from donor cars or be fabricated. Then there is all the mechanical work involved in disassembly and reassembly. And finally finish work and paint. My guess is at least a few hundred hours, and work that is essentially all "custom". $100k sounds high, but $20k (or more) would not be surprising.

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 10 2024, 08:30 PM

Pull the rocker covers and check the jack posts
Also post pics of the battery tray and the hell hole below it.

There are lots of guys on the forum that have been thru this. Some more than once.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Apr 10 2024, 09:38 PM

I’m not even sure what’s left under there but it certainly doesn’t look like a 914 floor pan. Looks like someone decided that diamond plate would be a better interior floor pan. It looks like the external (structural) floor pan underbody is scabbed together flat sheetmetal instead of the original 914 floor pan which had distinctive formations in it.

Typical shop rate is going to be about $100/hr and if it’s as bad as I think it is, there are hundreds and hundreds of hours of metal work there not including paint. Typically when a project is this big, it is not going economically viable to pay a shop to do the work.

You can look at Automobile Atlanta and Restoration Design to get an idea of what sheetmetal panel costs are.

Agree with others - need more pictures and view of longs and hell hole to better assess the extent of work needed.

Looks like you’re going to be learning to weld.

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 10 2024, 10:04 PM

I would not drive that the way it is. The passenger seat is about to fall out the bottom.


PS:

Posted by: bmangetspaid69 Apr 10 2024, 10:11 PM

Thanks for the info! Looks like I'm going to have to Here's a picture of the hell hole and battery tray (or whats left of it lol). Somehow she still runs and drives pretty decently. Still need to get the rockers off, going to save that for tomorrow

Posted by: bmangetspaid69 Apr 10 2024, 10:12 PM

Posted by: Superhawk996 Apr 10 2024, 10:22 PM

Start reading the rustoration threads to get a glimpse of what you're likely in for.

Personal favorites:

Brent Brock
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=307290

Jeff Hail
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76791

There are many more. Link to mine is in my signature.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 11 2024, 06:41 AM

Looks like a decent exterior.

Tackling rust is a major project. If you have the skills, time and parts give it a go after reviewing many of the restoration threads on our site. If you happen to have lots of $$$, I would ship it to a shop, several on this site are very capable of handling this work, and let the professionals do it right. That way you can get the car back and enjoy it instead of seeing it on a rotisserie or jack stands for the next several years.

Posted by: friethmiller Apr 11 2024, 06:54 AM

Just by looking at the condition of the metal below/inside the battery tray + the rear passenger floor, this will need at least half of the long and most of the jack post area replaced. We'll see what the pics show.

Posted by: Graydingo Apr 11 2024, 08:22 AM

I'm in Vegas, I'll cut that floor out and put a new one in for 50K. I'll even fix the hell hole for that price.

BTW I believe I know how they got to that price.

1. Our local dealer did a full restoration on a LE and they spent quite a bit doing body work. It was concourse quality though.

2. A local shop (one of three in Vegas) is currently doing a 914-6 and I know the guy doing all the welding on it. It's not as much of a basket case as yours but still required a lot of (and I mean a lot) Of metal work. Based on those two projects is probably where the price came in at.

In all seriousness, you could buy a dry 914 in really nice shape for around 20k. This one is not worth it unless you personally weld and have done major body / metal work.

Posted by: TROJANMAN Apr 11 2024, 08:30 AM

I'd start with a new tub and start transferring parts.

I happen to know a guy with one for sale


Attached image(s)

Posted by: ChrisFoley Apr 11 2024, 08:32 AM

I have a project in long term storage at home with similar metal repair needs. Fortunately no one else has done any bad repairs ahead of my work, and I have all the repair panels on hand already. But still a couple hundred hours to come out the other side whole.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Apr 11 2024, 09:51 AM

We replace the 914 floor pans all of the time, and it is no big thing. HOWEVER it is the rust around the periphery that causes the extra hours of labor

Posted by: rjames Apr 11 2024, 11:15 AM

It sucks hearing that you may have a parts car on your hand unless you have the skills to repair it yourself or have the $ to pay someone else to do it right. Unfortunately, many of these cars get sold looking pretty on the outside when in reality there isn't much holding them together.

A perfect example of that is this car:


And here's the link to what it looked like underneath, and what it took to repair it correctly.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=16748&hl=digging++into++hell

On the positive side, there are good tubs to be had out there for a lot less than what it would likely take to get your car road worthy, and swapping parts over isn't that hard to do.

Posted by: bmangetspaid69 Apr 11 2024, 11:36 AM

Thanks for all the replies... Super helpful. Here's an update after I took the side skirts off and took the passenger seat out. Rockers don't seem too terrible bad, but there is some rust. It looks like the original floor is there, but the previous owner welded the new metal on top of it, assuming that is why it would take so much work to weld a new floor pan in.

Posted by: rjames Apr 11 2024, 11:48 AM

After looking at those welds I wouldn't trust anything the PO did. That should all be removed.

Posted by: rjames Apr 11 2024, 11:48 AM

Double post

Posted by: Luke M Apr 11 2024, 11:50 AM

I can guarantee that you have some serious issues under that added metal.
I hate to break it to you but that chassis is rusted out.
You may want to start with a better chassis.
I know as I've been there and done that kind of repair.

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 11 2024, 11:57 AM

Holy crap! I would consider that "repair" borderline criminal.

That has got to be one of the worst hack jobs i have ever seen. And i've seen a few.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Apr 11 2024, 12:34 PM

Yup !

There is a ton of rust under all that added plate on the longs.

I’m usually in favor of recommending you dig in, and learn to repair properly. In this case, probably way better off financially and time wise to find a tub and move parts over.

The driver long doesn’t usually rust even 1/2 as bad as the passengers side. The fact that the driver side has been done is a sign Midwest cancer has caught up with this chassis long ago.

Posted by: Jack Standz Apr 11 2024, 12:38 PM

Can't tell for sure how bad that is, but it looks like the car broke in half or was breaking in half at the spot where that sheet metal (how thin/thick?) patch piece was put on with poor welds on top of other pieces.

Many years ago we had a 914 that actually looked better than that. We removed all salvageable parts and trailered the tub to the scrap yard. When using a fork lift to unload it from the trailer, the tub broke in half. Don't think anyone should drive your car until it's properly repaired.

Sorry, and it's probably a shock to you, but your car just doesn't seem safe to drive. Have you (carefully) stood on that threshold and bounced up and down to see how much it moves? With the targa top removed,, measure the distance between the front windshield frame and the roll bar while you're gently bouncing.

Posted by: Jack Standz Apr 11 2024, 12:56 PM

Another clue is there are no Jack points on both sides, which is probably why your jack is where it is. That is not a jack point and might be locoated on an area with little or no structure.

Please be careful and use an appropriate jacking point and enough stands in the right places to be safe.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Apr 11 2024, 01:14 PM

Sadly this is why you got the crazy “please go away” estimate from the dealership.

I feel terrible for you since you probably had no idea that this sort of rust and subsequent cobbled repair was under there. Hopefully this doesn’t turn you away from 914’s in general.

In addition to the general rust - another area to look at very carefully is the seatbelt attachment points to the longitudinals (outboard) and the tunnel (inboard). Your life may very well depend on these attachments and I suspect they too may be compromised by rust.

You’ll find plenty of folks here that will help get you pointed in the right direction regardless of how you proceed. Likewise, if you do decide to find another tub, have folks here put eyes on it to help advise before purchasing.

Posted by: SteveL Apr 11 2024, 01:29 PM

I'm in Andover, so you must be pretty close. Let me know if you want me to come take a look - I had to replace the suspension console on mine about 15 years ago, so I am familiar with Hell Hole issues.
From what we see in the pics, you would be HUGE money and time ahead to get a clean shell from out west, paid to have it shipped here, fix the few small rust spots, and transfer parts.

Posted by: BillJ Apr 11 2024, 03:17 PM

Thats tough to see and worse to hear the answers i am sure. Whoever did that was bandaiding everything with parts he either had on hand or got cheap and then given that mindset almost certainly welded over bad metal. Everything that was done needs to be removed if you were actually going to try and save it. Then thousands of dollars of sheet metal and 100s of hours to put right (if that is even possibe).

I bet this community can find you a decent tub to swap your good stuff over to.

Posted by: bmangetspaid69 Apr 11 2024, 04:29 PM

Wow, thanks for all the help here. Definitely am in way over my head and not sure what to do next. Can’t believe I have been driving this for a year without any idea, probably put 1,000+ miles on it since I bought it

Posted by: 930cabman Apr 11 2024, 04:50 PM

Does she drive ok? you might consider driving her for a while (with low stress) and search for a better chassis. Fixing repairs completed by a prior owner are most often nightmares. Great looking topside btw

best of luck

Posted by: burton73 Apr 11 2024, 05:01 PM

Plenty of people driving cars they do not know are rotten underneath. Sorry you bought this car without knowing what was under there. You must decide what you can spend on this car. We do not know anything about you and this car. Was it a car from Minneapolis?

Do you have your own garage at home where you could work on it. You could learn how to weld, but some things that you have not discovered is how much rust is there in different areas. Bondo and paint can be covering up problems and you really need a person that knows what to look at go over it just to see if you should run from it. I only get a reflection on left rear quarter and the paint (the shine) There may be Bondo all over the place covering up rot on the car.

You may have spent all your extra cash and did not plan to put any money into these things after you bought it a year ago. Putting a picture, I took on Route 66 and not sure how old you are but the flintstones had no floor in their cars with the stone tires. It may not be funny to you, but you may need just to lighten it up a little

Good luck.

Best Bob B

Posted by: rjames Apr 11 2024, 07:06 PM

This car should not be on the road.

Posted by: bmangetspaid69 Apr 11 2024, 07:36 PM

Haha it truly is a flintstones car! I bought it in Michigan, the PO said he had had it for the last 15 years. Before him, it had been in Maryland since 74. From what I recall he had said he put the floors in more so as a cosmetics addition and sold it to me because his wife wanted the car gone lol! Definitely don’t have any serious cash as I just graduated from college. I’ve always been into classic Porsches and loved the 914 because it’s just unique! I bought it because I’ve always wanted to start working on a (relatively easy and cheap lol) project car and had originally thought this one was going to be perfect. I just haven’t had the time over the past year until now to fully dig in to what I was working with. I’ve got a garage I can work in and might make it a long term project as I want to see it return to its former glory

Posted by: bmangetspaid69 Apr 11 2024, 07:39 PM

She honestly drives pretty well, have never noticed any major chassis issues while driving other than the suspension feeling a bit stiff (I was anticipating just putting in some new struts and suspension coils). First gear can be a bit wonky but nothing that doesn’t still make her a blast to drive

Posted by: Superhawk996 Apr 11 2024, 08:23 PM

What do the rear suspension consoles look like?

Not at all uncommon to have the passenger side rusted out and on the verge of collapse.

Here’s example of DAPO workmanship that was on my car - brazed because the metal was too thin and rusty to weld.



How do the front suspension attachments look?

Posted by: worn Apr 11 2024, 09:23 PM

The only one is in Vegas?! I don’t get that part at all. Trying to scare you off does make sense. It is gonna cost more than you probably want to pay, and the dealer gets nothing out of restoring 914s. Other than points towards karma and sainthood.

I will be driving through Minnesota in a few months. I might be able to swing by if that would help. Shifting into first gear always reminds me of the novel Dune. You are not alone.

Posted by: IronHillRestorations Apr 15 2024, 01:21 PM

Those welds are scary

Posted by: DaveB Apr 15 2024, 03:22 PM

I'm glad to hear you have enjoy driving the 914.

Based on the pics, there s no simple or inexpensive fix. As you dig into car there will be a lot of discoveries. I would guess that everything from the top of the rocker panel down, engine compartment, and inner wheel well area will need to be replaced or reworked. These projects quickly spiral into a full rebuild/restoration. As for cost, the sheetmetal would be in the $5K range. Probably between 460 and 620 hours of work for everything needed, so figure $52K and $74K for parts and labor. This type of job requires the car to be stripped down, braced, sheetmetal replaced, epoxy prime, undercoat, paint and rebuilt back up with the same parts (only bushings and rubber replaced). There could still be rust and other issues in the upper body, engine/trans needs a refresh, suspension requires replacement, etc, that would drive these costs higher.


DaveB