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Posted by: DennisV May 29 2024, 11:00 AM

Is this air cleaner correct for 1970 914-6? Am I missing any components?

I went through the other air cleaner threads I could find. A couple things about our plastic one that seems curious when I compare it to the photos I'm finding of others identified as 914-6:

1. No clips or inlets for cold start fuel lines
2. Large to small outlet plastic fitting

Thanks.

P.S. I am unclear about the fittings. My best guess is the small single port metal one is a water drain valve and big plastic one with two outlets is oil breather? Not sure how to connect either.

Posted by: 930cabman May 29 2024, 12:20 PM

Posted by: rgalla9146 May 29 2024, 10:08 PM

Not for a 6...for 911 w/mechanical fuel injection. IIRC it is for a '70-'71 with that long inlet...but they are often mis-matched.

Posted by: gereed75 May 29 2024, 10:25 PM

Six one has a plated metal vent connection.

Posted by: DennisV May 30 2024, 06:56 AM

Well that is a bummer. It does explain the lack of fuel hose clips.

Is there anything that keeps this one from being usable? I seem to recall connecting the cold start fuel lines was discouraged, so that would seem to be a non-issue.

Where can I find information on what connects to the fittings?

Thank you.

Posted by: DennisV Jun 4 2024, 06:17 AM

Bumping this to see if I can get clarity on:

• What modifications we need, if any, to use this on our stock 914-6. Cold start disabled.
• Info on what connects to fittings.

Thanks.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Jun 4 2024, 07:54 AM

Good luck on your quest

Recent thread along same lines.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=370249

Posted by: 930cabman Jun 4 2024, 08:20 AM

Is the air cleaner specific to a 914 6? I have a metal housing from a 911 (?) but it interferes with the rear trunk wall.

TIA

Posted by: fixer34 Jun 4 2024, 01:27 PM

Some pictures I have of mine. Cold start pipes are in place, but I removed the solenoid and fuel line connections.

Posted by: 930cabman Jun 4 2024, 01:38 PM

Thank you, is this an original setup as far as you know?

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 4 2024, 01:38 PM

That air cleaner won't work with a 914-6. It uses clips that are attached to the MFI stacks. The 914-6 uses metal buckets with the clips that bolt to the carbs.

The six air cleaner doesn't have the individual holes for the stacks either.

Posted by: 930cabman Jun 4 2024, 02:05 PM

can anyone post a pic or two, I will probably not need to find one, but would be nice to see the real thing. The PET only shows so much

Posted by: gereed75 Jun 4 2024, 04:25 PM

Dennis V

IMHO that is not a 914 box. It is a 911 box. The snorkel appears to be correct six but there are some 911 snorkels that go to the same side (congrats either way, these are very difficult to find).

Having said that, there is no reason that you could not use that box for 914-6. You will need the correct carburetor buckets with the long version clips as shown in the thread linked above , post #7. You will have to drill holes between the stack holes for the Weber vents.

Hate to disagree with anyone as esteemed, learned and gentlemanly as Clay, but all six boxes I have seen have the individual stack holes as shown by Fixer above.

The bottom single vent is a gas /water drain but not sure if there is a vent hose attached or where it drains to (my foggy memory way back to my first six seems to recall it did indeed have a hose attached, might be wrong there, but seems likely).

The tee fitting large diameter side accepts a hose from the oil tank vent. no idea where the opposite side smaller connection goes to (on 911 applications the small diameter vent connection goes to the charcoal filter). I have an original six box where that smaller fitting is plugged, but have no way to know if that is correct. Can't think of any where that it might hook to on a six motor but who knows??

hope that helps

Posted by: mb911 Jun 4 2024, 04:29 PM

That is my experience as well. If someone has something different it is probably because it was swapped out at some point for the MFI housing

Posted by: gereed75 Jun 4 2024, 04:48 PM

Sounds like Ben has tried this. I was assuming that the plastic box , whether carb or MFI has the same shape and size to accept wire long version clips from the correct carb buckets Certainly could be wrong on that.

There are two versions of metal carb buckets - one version (on the left in the photo) have higher walls on the inside diameter of the bucket. One version does not have these higher wall extensions. Only the buckets without the extensions will work with plastic boxes. I think the higher wall version is for metal boxes.

The incompatibility of these different buckets may be the reason that some have had problems making plastic boxes work. See the picture below and the link shown in post #7 above where Rory shows a different picture of the same bucket issue. I see no reason why you could not trim the higher inner wall to make it even with the outer wall to make a bucket intended for a steel box work on a plastic one as suggested by Rory in the same linked thread.

Posted by: mb911 Jun 4 2024, 06:11 PM

So the bucket have the brackets located at different heights as well depending on MFI or carbs along with longer clips

Posted by: gereed75 Jun 4 2024, 08:21 PM

It’s always something. I guess the safe way is to get the correct buckets, no raised inner wall.

Guess that’s why there are a variety of clamp sizes. Now looking more closely at Rory's pictures, it does appear that there is a slight difference in the height of the clip mounts between the the higher inner wall bucket and the correct one with even height walls. Either way the higher inner wall one will not fully seat down into a plastic box, therefore the clip distance is different and the rubber seals never seat onto the box body.

Until looking with this much detail, never knew the differences, Guess I was just lucky when I bought the buckets at hershey and got the right ones.

Posted by: DennisV Jun 5 2024, 07:20 AM

My goodness. Who would have thought so many permutations of the air cleaner box.

So there is not even consensus as to whether the bottom should have 2 large oval holes or 6 smaller round ones?

Can anyone share the length on the clips? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5176 Had a http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=370249&view=findpost&p=3143722, but hard to know which you have without knowing the dimensions.

If it was mentioned elsewhere, I missed it. The PDF parts catalogs show the following part number shared with 911:
Main body: 911-108-001-02 [914-6 and also 911 -68]
Also the gaskets, pipe, water drain valve, backfire grid shared. Not the carburetor connecting piece though.

Posted by: 930cabman Jun 5 2024, 08:58 AM

Especially with /6 conversion, the number of details appears never ending. I am not even going to try and calculate the hours I have into this /6 conversion, all I can say is many many

From what I can tell there is no air filter that will fit between #3 carb and the trunk wall, very small clearance

Posted by: gereed75 Jun 5 2024, 09:34 AM

Sure. the plastic one will fit and apparently the metal one will also. Ben made it work with some relatively slight mods. Ill let him chime in if he wants to detail those mods. Never did it myself.

There are two style wire clips, the longer and the shorter. Not sure what configuration uses the shorter ones. Plastic tops use the longer. It is pretty apparent when you have them in your hand. The longer ones are 3" when fully extended. sorry, dont know the PN.

you guys have persevered a lot to get to this point. This is really not a biggy. Really tough finding all the parts if you are trying to do a completely correct resto on a factory six, not so tough for a conversion.

I think if I had my druthers and wanted a factory box I would do a metal one. No fire/distortion/melt issues. Guess that would require the higher inner wall bucket. Just not sure which clips those use. (-:

There is a very comprehensive thread regarding this over on the Early 911S registry. If i have time latter to find it I will post a link. In that thread even the most esteemed Grady Clay (RIP) got it wrong at first. The factory changed things as it went along. They never considered the confusion that the changes might make decades into the future for us sick old Porsche hobbyists!

Posted by: 930cabman Jun 5 2024, 12:21 PM

"sick old Porsche hobbyists"

Well said

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jun 5 2024, 06:08 PM

....but wait...theres more !
please excuse my gigantic pics I have to do this two at a time.
Nice to see Grady Clay mentioned on this site, I visited his shop almost 50 years ago
while traveling cross country in a '59 sunroof coupe with my brother and sister.
Thats right...three across in a 356. My other sister was in a '69 911 with her future
and current husband.
I digress.
The first two pics show details of the rear of the 6 plastic housing.
Notice the drain hose and the metal tube with rubber weep nipple that attaches
to the tin near the starter.
Also notice the brass T that is plugged on the small side. The large side takes the
cloth brided vent hose from the oil tank.
There is also a small metal tab that I suspect was meant to hold the small fuel hose
that ran across the back of the AF housing.
The hose clamps ar incorrect. But they work.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jun 5 2024, 06:43 PM

Denis your inlet snorkel appears to be correct for a 6. Long plastic snorkle without
a metal warm air inlet attached.
With appologies to Clay, 6s had the 3 holes molded as part of the housing.
Notice the view across the 'boat' shows no elevated inner flange


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jun 5 2024, 07:11 PM

Pic shows the larger clip and attachment to the boat.
And last but not least.
The shell sticker ?
Could be a Euro delivery feature. It's rotated ninty degrees from those seen on
911s It's positioned to be seen properly from the drivers side of a 914 6
Anyone ?
PS I've never had a euro delivery 6



Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: IronHillRestorations Jun 5 2024, 07:45 PM

I’ve read about a few cases of 6’s getting hydro locked due to rain water getting past the seal and into the buckets.

Posted by: gereed75 Jun 5 2024, 09:53 PM

Wow, great find on the metal drain tube fitting. I vaguely remember seeing or having one of those but had no idea what it was for. That is some obscure minutiae right there! As is the Shell sticker insight!

I agree the clip on the back was to secure the cold start cross connection hose. See below. Also note on this box the what I think are correct cold start hose clamps. And also the plug in my vent fitting appears to match perfectly with the one Rory shows. Also see the same height walls on the plastic compatible buckets. These buckets work on carbs and the mag stack MFI as shown in the other photo.

The one other piece of obscure minutiae is the inclusion of the “fire screen” in the vent fitting that is pictured below on what I believe is a 911 MFI plastic box. And seems to appear on the six box Rory shows. This screen is not there on my six box? Maybe just missing.

By the way, the six box and this 911 MFI box are identical. Only the snorkels are different. There certainly are 911 plastic boxes with slight variations (indentations on the bottom) but the basic boxes are identical in shape form and ( I suspect) function.


Oh and found the link to this very comprehensive discussion on Early S Registry. https://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?75913-Correct-air-cleaners-for-various-MFI-years

Posted by: gereed75 Jun 5 2024, 10:10 PM

Posted by: gereed75 Jun 5 2024, 10:12 PM

Wow we have beat this to death!

Posted by: 930cabman Jun 6 2024, 04:55 AM

But there's more



Clearance is very tight here, a factory style will never fit here

Posted by: mb911 Jun 6 2024, 05:22 AM

We need Glenn Stazek to chime in. He would be what I consider to be the absolute expert on this.

Posted by: gereed75 Jun 6 2024, 07:26 AM

Ok, had to make me do it. Just measured the distance between the center line of the rear carb throat to the rear most point on a stock plastic airbox in that area. The distance is 2 1/4".

You can measure better the same dimension on your K&N equipped, typical after market filter assembly. I tried quickly on the ones currently on my factory six (without removing the top rain shield, so it is a rough measurement) and I got 2 1/4".

Agree the clearance is close here but - Obviously the factory plastic box fits in this area on a factory car. Metal box, who knows - Dont have one to measure.

So also does a typical K&N assembly fit. The only way either would not fit here on a conversion is if you are using a motor mount that sets the engine further back. I guess some aftermarket motor mounts may be different, but if they were that far off, then the trans mounts would be off too, and I have never heard of that being an issue with any after market mount.

PS... Dont try to install an engine into the car with the passenger side aircleaner mounted, just too close!

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jun 6 2024, 09:36 AM

K&N rain hats fit on my stock 6 no problem.
On conversion cars ? all bets are off. Too many variables.

Posted by: 930cabman Jun 6 2024, 10:24 AM

Are these K&N filters? I picked them up along the way and it appears they will work fine. The filter elements are from PartsKlassik.

Posted by: fixer34 Jun 6 2024, 11:30 AM

Original as of when I bought the car 47 years ago...
I can get it out into the sunshine (hopefully) this weekend and take whatever pictures you might want.

Posted by: DennisV Jun 6 2024, 04:21 PM

As always, thanks for taking time to share the photos. Super helpful.

I'm not sure the source of this, but I have a PDF file about 914-6 Fuel System. A drawing in there seems to support the 6 hole configuration.

Posted by: DennisV Jun 6 2024, 05:01 PM

Perhaps, but I feel like we're getting to some closure not found consolidated elsewhere. Unfortunately, I can see I will have more questions. Like the spec on the hoses with no part number, and distinguishing pipe, stopper, and valve from 911.

Because I had a 5 hour plane ride and no Internet access, I took the time to compare the 914-6 and 911 parts catalogs to look for cross-over. There is quite a bit, but only for select 911 models, and not everything. Not sure if this will help anyone else.

A few interesting notes about the air cleaner parts with same numbers in the 911 catalogs:

• 70-71 Zenith calls out "plastic" for the air cleaner main body
• 70-73 Zenith also calls out "plastic" for the connecting piece (aka boat)
• 65-68 base 911 has 2 part numbers for the air cleaner main body, one matches 914-6

65-69 911 Has a different part number for weber connecting piece (aka boat). I would have thought it would be the same as 914-6 given the matching main body part number. 65-69 Weber calls out "steel" for the 911 E/S and T air cleaner main body (different part number).

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