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Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 2 2005, 08:36 PM

Today i decided to embark on my journey to prep my car for -10 braided line, and a 16x3" setrab Oil Cooler.

STEP 1
cut square hole in passenger foot well area for lines.


STEP 2
Decide whether to run braided lines up the rocker area, or throight the heater tubes....

STEP 3
Decide that running lines down the rocker is easier to access..... cut access holes to go from rocker area to inside footwell like GT cars


Step 4
Cut outside access hole


Step 5
Cut front trunk access holes for lines to run to cooler....


Step 6
Marvel at your ugly openings, and take an artsy fartsy hole to hole shot


Step 7
Drill out 6 spotwelds holding down the spare tire mount, prepare to move it vertically to the firewall to secure a spacesacer like this (STEVE's car)

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 2 2005, 08:51 PM

Did i mention that AN fittings are a royal mot**r F****ng pain in the @$$????

Posted by: TimT Sep 2 2005, 09:01 PM

hmmm are you lubing up the hose and fitting?

-10 should be a piece of cake to assemble.. its the -16 and -20 lines that are a pain in the nads

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 2 2005, 09:04 PM

1. wrap hose with tape.
2. cut in the middle of tape.
3. deburr the end with diag. cutters.
4. apply vigorous amounts of wd/40 or 30 wt oil
5. swear swear curse curse and get red fitting over braided end.
6. push blue tapered fitting into rubber hose.
7. tighten.

i did 4 ends today. still picking braids out of my hand....

Posted by: Mueller Sep 2 2005, 09:09 PM

I guess I could wait until you post a picture, but how big should the exit hole be for the cooler and shroud??

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 2 2005, 09:12 PM

havent done that yet. going to do something like this....

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Sep 2 2005, 09:13 PM

Aaron, don't let that braided hose end fall on your OSHA approved steel-toed flip flops (BTDT)
PM me about the GAF
Marty

Posted by: BMartin914 Sep 2 2005, 09:40 PM

Way to go aaron! So you decided to go down the rockers?

It was kind of a pain to go through the heater tube, but it only took me a couple hours to cut all the holes and run the lines. Seems worth it now. No regrets.

Mine is about 90% done. The hard part is over. Too lazy to take pics and too excited to drive it again. In the process of buttoning up the interior and then...

Posted by: V6914 Sep 2 2005, 09:46 PM

Hey Aaron, what's ya doin? I, thought your motor didn't have enough HP to even heat the oil up, and now your installing a external cooler?

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 2 2005, 09:48 PM

richard, i gots me a 78mm scat crank....

gonna go BIG like yours... soon. think like next summer soon

laying the groundwork for a big motor

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 2 2005, 09:50 PM

here is the cooler, for those who care

about 3" tall, 14" wide/16" with brackets

Posted by: V6914 Sep 2 2005, 10:26 PM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Sep 2 2005, 07:48 PM)

richard, i gots me a 78mm scat crank.... gonna go BIG like yours... soon. think like next summer soon laying the groundwork for a big motor

So, you've been holding out Well I guess a 78mm crank will make a little heat, what have you decided on for cylinders? And if you say 96mm, I won't talk to you anymore let alone help you

Posted by: Brando Sep 2 2005, 10:26 PM

Maybe you should learn to drive what ya got before upping the car.

I can tell you're askeered of me with that new motor... already thinking of a 2300++

Posted by: john rogers Sep 2 2005, 10:47 PM

Before you run the hoses, try and get some sheetmetal edging so the edges will not cut that braided hose you drove so far to get. It is available at places like Marshall's in San Diego and will not only prptect the hose but make it look really professional. If you can't find that use some small black vacuum hose and slit it and put over the edges, I've done that with success too. Looking good so far!

Posted by: Brando Sep 2 2005, 10:50 PM

to make it real pretty, we can cut up some aluminum and put doughnut rubber washers/seals inside just the right diameter for the hoses that you can screw down over the large sharp square holes.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 2 2005, 11:05 PM

John, yep - a grommet material is being sourced. dont want to cut them hoses

Posted by: brant Sep 2 2005, 11:12 PM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Sep 2 2005, 08:04 PM)

QUOTE (TimT @ Sep 2 2005, 08:01 PM) hmmm are you lubing up the hose and fitting? -10 should be a piece of cake to assemble.. its the -16 and -20 lines that  are a pain in the nads 1. wrap hose with tape. 2. cut in the middle of tape. 3. deburr the end with diag. cutters. 4. apply vigorous amounts of wd/40 or 30 wt oil 5. swear swear curse curse and get red fitting over braided end. 6. push blue tapered fitting into rubber hose. 7. tighten. i did 4 ends today. still picking braids out of my hand....

doing a bunch of fittings can be a pain:


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Posted by: synthesisdv Sep 3 2005, 06:38 AM

I have dozens of -6, -8, and -10 fittings on my car.

The best $$ I have spent was on a giant pair (36") of hose shears, they cut thru even -16 braided hose like butter making a clean and ready to install hose end. You can get a set from mcmaster for around $100 or less.

Posted by: TimT Sep 3 2005, 07:10 AM

QUOTE

The best $$ I have spent was on a giant pair (36") of hose shears

werd up

I was just looking through summits new catalog whilst in the library, and noticed that they are selling the shears for $39.95

Also the brand of hose end seems to make a difference, XRP, Aeroquip, and Earls are slightly different

iirc earls are the more difficult to use

Posted by: SLITS Sep 3 2005, 08:27 AM

A Dremel / DoMore with a cutoff wheel will make a nice clean cut.

I would soft vise the fitting and push the hose on.

Also, after pushing the fitting on, I would mark a line on the tape at the end of the fitting. When I screwed the second part of the fitting on, watching the mark would tell you if the fitting was pulling out of the hose.

Tricks to save blood.............

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 3 2005, 09:59 AM

i'm surprised you're not going with the fancy, finned, oil lines that Elephant sells, that run through the pass side sill supports. that way, your slow to warm up engine will take even longer. ya kill me kid!!

k

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 3 2005, 10:02 AM

another dumb ?. how the hell do you purge all oil out of the system when it's time for a change? any idea what the total capacity will be?

k

Posted by: SLITS Sep 3 2005, 10:12 AM

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Sep 3 2005, 09:02 AM)

another dumb ?. how the hell do you purge all oil out of the system when it's time for a change? any idea what the total capacity will be? k

You don't, unless you blow the engine..........

/6 race car with front mounted cooler was ~ 13 quarts

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 3 2005, 10:17 AM

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Sep 3 2005, 08:59 AM)

i'm surprised you're not going with the fancy, finned, oil lines that Elephant sells, that run through the pass side sill supports. that way, your slow to warm up engine will take even longer. ya kill me kid!! k

kid? its got a thermostat. so warm ups will be the same

Oil cycles all the time, you dont purge it unless you want to.

and... guessing 4 more quarts....

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 3 2005, 10:26 AM

wouldn't that be the fan thermostat? i was refering to the non-existant one for the cooling flaps. over half a box of oil when it's time for a change, nice. i hope you're going with the real exspensive stuff.

k

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 3 2005, 10:29 AM

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Sep 3 2005, 09:26 AM)

wouldn't that be the fan thermostat? i was refering to the non-existant one for the cooling flaps. over half a box of oil when it's time for a change, nice. i hope you're going with the real exspensive stuff. k

no silly fan thermostat. but your extra cold oil point is moot. 5% of the oil is always circualting through the cooler. at 180 deg, 100 percent is going to the cooler....

AA

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 3 2005, 08:24 PM

DAY 2 Delete boxed sill support and fab a gusset to replace it
Purpose: to allow the lines to clear the rocker panels.

check out this fab skill
the gusset

another view

In place, now double wall gussets eliminating boxed section that prohibited lines from running.

Now drill 2 x 1 1/8 holes in each sill support to run lines.

Also moved spare tire mount to firewall to enable shroud mounting......


RTV'd grommets in all openings, ready to run lines tomorrow

Posted by: Duffster Sep 3 2005, 10:43 PM

Sehr Gut!!!!

Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 4 2005, 07:02 AM

I use a Gould pipe vise (pictured) with cutting guide for cutting hose; a sharp 32-TPI hack saw blade goes through in a few strokes. use a couple of turns of racer's tape in the area of the cut; mark the tape. the pipe vise is small enough to go into the track box.

it's usually easier to put the red fitting over the hose before you cut it.

SLITS is definitely right; grip the fitting in "soft" (aluminum or brass) vise jaws, push on the hose. the rest of his tips are spot-on too.

there's an illustrated guide on the Earl's site.


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Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 4 2005, 09:17 PM

DAY 3....ALMOST DONE

fitted thermostat sandwich plate. ran lines. mounted cooler.
a few hours away from being done....

step 1-
notch engine bar to utilize oil filter. removing heater stuffs made this easy...

another look.


custom grommet material

more fuel lime grommetry

again.... works good on square openings


more pics in a few minutes...

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 4 2005, 09:33 PM

almost done.

oil lines are almost done.
padded 1" hose clamps....

2 hoses come together at the long, through a union,... so you could drain the lines if needed....

Posted by: Brando Sep 4 2005, 11:52 PM

Looks great Aaron!

Should have run the lines down opposite sides through the rocker holes... That's what they're there for.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 5 2005, 09:37 AM

wrong - lines are 1" diameter, holes in rockers are 3/4- do you see any sill supports here?




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Posted by: trekkor Sep 5 2005, 10:34 AM

Good job. Glad to see you take this on.

I'm still lagging behind in the oil cooling dept.

KT

Posted by: cha914 Sep 5 2005, 10:38 AM

If I want to drain my lines I just pull both ends off the sandwitch adapter and fire up the air compressor. Put one line in a catch can, stick the blower in the other line...presto drained lines!!!

Otherwise looks good...

Tony

Posted by: Duffster Sep 5 2005, 04:21 PM

the great thing about external coolers is the number of new places to spring leaks... That extra 3-4 quarts will defiantly come in handy in your cone-bashing exercises. Finish up and suck a few after the test drive. (oh god! did I just give AAron the clap?!!!)

Posted by: Aaron Cox Sep 6 2005, 07:09 PM

all done except the shroud....

thanks to herb meeder (hmeeder) for the mounting tip.
tie into front a arm protector bolt holes...

the mount (1/8 x 2 x 27 AL bar)

The rubber isolators (4)

cooler on rubber isolators

mocked up. bolted in

close up.

top view

line mockup

another view

sideview

lines will be well hidden by passenger foam foot rest.

side of the ride


on to shroud design

got about 3 qts in the cooler and the lines, im sure they arent full yet....

Posted by: Twystd1 Sep 6 2005, 07:15 PM

Dude,
Your my Hero..



Crap.. did I say Aaron was my HERO?

I apologize to the club.....

Good job bro...

Twystd1

Posted by: Markeydoo Sep 6 2005, 07:18 PM

Nice job AAron...
Where does the microwave go???

Posted by: V6914 Sep 11 2005, 06:28 PM

Aaron, how about info on that Scat crank, what journal size, and what have you decided on for Piston & Cylinders?

Posted by: MattR Sep 11 2005, 09:56 PM

Thats baaad

and by baaad, i mean gooood

keep on rockin', son

Posted by: agrump Jun 5 2006, 01:17 PM

Can I get an update on how this cooler performed? I'm thinking of doing something similar.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 5 2006, 02:30 PM

works fine with no ducting and no exit as of yet...

motor gets to 180 ish....

ill have it ducted and shoruded as of summer...

gonna go ALuminum i think

Posted by: agrump Jun 5 2006, 03:36 PM

Excellent! Thank you. I was just measuring on my car and I think I am going to have to go with two 8x4 coolers to get around the spare and the AC condensor. Should be about the same surface area as what you have. I'll be able to duct it out the wheel wells if needed.

Posted by: jhadler Jun 5 2006, 03:43 PM

Was currious about the overall height of the cooler and fittings. I have am aftermarket spoiler with a nice opening that I'd like to fit that cooler into. I'm trying to keep the overall height of the cooler with fittings to 6". Do you think that with 90 degree fittings, that it might make it under 6"?

Thanks,

-Josh2

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 5 2006, 03:47 PM

with 90's? hmmm i would think it would be a tad too tall. cooler is 4" and the fittings may be taller than 2"......

maybe with the 135 degree fittings.....

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jun 5 2006, 05:46 PM

That cooler is too damn small to be effective on the track Josh. Step up and get a Fluidyne that is the same heigth/length but double the width.

I installed a 13 row Earls in a 914 (in 6 hours the other night) Worked perfect at Buttonwillow with the air temps in the 98deg. range. Kept everything in check. I needed a cooler quickly for this event, so I went against my own "Fluidyne" preaching.

Aaron,

I like the concept of runnin through the rockers, but cutting into the frame rail TWICE is not something I think I would want to do. I ran Birgit's through the heater tube and had it exit out of the factory hole in the frame rail just behind your exit point.


B

Posted by: J P Stein Jun 5 2006, 06:12 PM

Another voice crying in the wilderness....I got 2 AN 12 lines out thru that hole.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 5 2006, 06:38 PM

point undertood. this is how the factory did it tho....

and did you look at the date of this thread?? it has been revived....

Posted by: J P Stein Jun 5 2006, 07:11 PM

Was it revived so's you could be punished?
OR
does that mean it don't count?

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 5 2006, 10:31 PM

and brad... it only went thru the long once. not TWICE. the front went in from the fender opening, and that put it into the middle of the long.... and thus only came thru the INNER long.....

just as the factory did it.....

Posted by: jhadler Jun 5 2006, 11:01 PM

Yeah, I'd go for the fluidyne if I really could. But I'm forced to face a compromise in this. The rules I'm running under do not permit the cutting of sheet metal, nor do they permit ducting air _to_ or _from_ the oil cooler. However, they _do_ allow an oil cooler to be placed _into_ the opening of an air dam, which is unrestricted (the air dam that is). So... the best off-the-shelf option I've found so far is to use the RSR style spoiler that GT racing makes. Only catch is, I have _yet_ to find a relatively thin (earls, setrab, mocal) oil cooler that actually _fits_ in that opening. The only thing I've found that would fit without customizing the spoiler is a cheapo AN6 sized transmission tube-n-fin oil cooler. And that would be almost worse than nothing. Anything thicker than those plate style oil coolers would have no space behind 'em for air flow, rendering that awesome (and expensive) fluidyne useless... So.. back to the compromise...

Any suggestions? I'm open to new ideas.

-Josh2

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 5 2006, 11:04 PM

sounds like a seperate thread is in order

here is my idea, modify the GT racing rsr valence so the cooler opening is like 3" further forward then it currently is. thus you have more room in the back, and it might look cool

its just fiberglass!

Posted by: sixnotfour Jun 5 2006, 11:52 PM

Mount it like the old days
BrianLong book photo


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Posted by: SirAndy Jun 6 2006, 12:51 AM

the factory also ran them just mounted under the front bumper (see pic posted above), no cutting, no ducting ...

Andy

Posted by: Brett W Jun 6 2006, 08:36 AM

Pick up the finned aluminum tube coolers used in NASCAR. For Auto-x they would work fine.

Other wise mount two coolers behind the bumpers in the opening for the factory foglights and use the delete grills to feed air. Better than nothing.

Posted by: jhadler Jun 6 2006, 09:58 AM

1) Where would I find one of those coolers? The only tube-n-fin coolers that I've found that fit the existing space are AN-6...

2) If I mount behind behind the grilles, where would the air go? I doubt that much, if any, air would actually flow through there.

-Josh2

Posted by: jhadler Jun 6 2006, 10:11 AM

Yeah, that's true. 3" further forward, that sucker would be hanging quite a bit out there. It already has quite a snout as it is.

The reason I want to stay with an off-the-shelf spoiler is that I know that at some point the spoiler will be broken. It's inevitable. So, I wanted to stay away from having to lay custom fiberglass each time, just order a new spoiler. I guess I could make my own mold and fabricate my own spoiler every time, but what a pain.

I guess I'm searching for a non-custom, easilly applied solution. I know, a pipe dream. But one can dream, can't one?

-Josh2

Posted by: jhadler Jun 6 2006, 10:12 AM

I'm thinkin' more and more about that. But then I'm back to custom made spoilers...

-Josh2

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 6 2006, 10:12 AM

you're too picky, and it doesnt exist....

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jun 6 2006, 10:42 AM

Damn.

I'm impressed JP got two -12's through there!!! 10's go through easy!

Aaron,

Ask your buddy Matt about some of the hacked shit the "factory" does to get a car to the track. I swear that half the stuff we see for the 914 that the "factory" did was all "patch work" they put ZERO engineering behind some of this. They are in the business to sell race cars. The tubs didnt have to last

I like your setup. I personally beleive/know the cooler is too small for anything but sitting in traffic or a short 40sec AutoX.

When I run the bigger coolers, I drop them down farther into the tub so they stay under the GT shroud.

Josh is in a tough spot. He will have to runs something very creative. I find it hard to beleive a race org wont allow better cooling. It has not effect on performance..ha ha..

B

Posted by: jhadler Jun 6 2006, 10:44 AM

Yup. On both counts.

Right now, I'm keeping the oil cooler hardware on the shelf 'till I get the car running. After that, I'll look into different options again. It may wind up coming down to cutting and re-glassing the spoiler to accomdate a 6-1/2" tall oil cooler, we'll see...

-Josh2

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 6 2006, 10:45 AM

dammit brad, where were you when i was asking all these questions before i ran the lines?! LOL

car will get a hoop with door bars or an engman kit someday......

and i can always throw a bigger cooler up front sucks i will have to go to -12 when it goes sixer someday

Posted by: jhadler Jun 6 2006, 10:53 AM

It's SCCA autox. Street Prepared category. The rules do not allow cuttnig of sheet metal beacuse of weight reduction. I dunno, I'm almost to the point of saying #$&* it, and doing it right, but it would be protest fodder the moment I go to a National event. No, it's not a performance advantage, if anything, it's a dissadvantage (weight), but the rules are the rules...

-Josh2

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 6 2006, 11:01 AM

mount it right behind the targa up on the roof like the baja bugs did it

Posted by: spunone Jun 6 2006, 11:10 AM

Ok Brad what size Fluidyne should a street auto X car be using and do you think you need a Thermostat

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 6 2006, 11:19 AM

always need a thrmostat........