Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Fuel Injection vs CARBS
Posted by: cbenitah Sep 8 2005, 07:30 PM
So I'm wondering what the best way is here...
My 1.8L is acting a little bit funny when it comes to acceleration, it feels like all the power is gone. I can go from 1000 RPM's to 4000 without more increase in speed than maybe 10MPH in 1st gear.. and i IDLE at 1200 but thats when the engine is warm, otherwise its around 2-300..
Someone said its the fuel injection being bad from the begining, and that i should remove it and put Carbs on it..
Anyone has an opinion about this question?
/the guy that have to drive in the slow lane with rest of the seniors 
Posted by: lapuwali Sep 8 2005, 07:44 PM
There are very strong opinions on this subject, and if you do a search, you'll read and re-read all of them...
Posted by: Travis Neff Sep 8 2005, 07:48 PM
Let me get this straight. Your car, when acellerating fom 1K RPM to 4K RPM, is only gaining you 10MPH?? Sounds like your clutch is not adjusted correctly or it is ready to give out on you.
Posted by: Twystd1 Sep 8 2005, 07:51 PM
My first impulse is to suggest you Turbo your 1.8...
But then again... I ain't Aaron 
Me thinks the better questions for you to answer is:
Are you mechanicly inclined enough to attempt to repair this your self?
How much money have ya got that you want to throw at this problem?
Do ya wanna racer .... or a gas miser?
(Cause you can use the carbs later for a performance build)
Me thinks this will help US answer you...
Cheers,
Twystd1
Posted by: cbenitah Sep 8 2005, 08:00 PM
| QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Sep 8 2005, 05:48 PM) |
| Let me get this straight. Your car, when acellerating fom 1K RPM to 4K RPM, is only gaining you 10MPH?? Sounds like your clutch is not adjusted correctly or it is ready to give out on you. |
Well, when the car is cool its ok, then it has a normal acceleration, but when it gets up to speed its like its jumping forward.. sometimes it gets more (normal) power but on the freeway im lost all the way to the right in 60-65..
Posted by: cbenitah Sep 8 2005, 08:03 PM
| QUOTE (Twystd1 @ Sep 8 2005, 05:51 PM) |
| My first impulse is to suggest you Turbo your 1.8... But then again... I ain't Aaron Me thinks the better questions for you to answer is: Are you mechanicly inclined enough to attempt to repair this your self? How much money have ya got that you want to throw at this problem? Do ya wanna racer .... or a gas miser? (Cause you can use the carbs later for a performance build) Me thinks this will help US answer you... Cheers, Twystd1 |
Well, the $ is just this.. I could do the rebuilt for whatever $$$K that would cost. But i dont see the future in THIS engine and I would rather save a couple of months more or so the get a 6 convertion done!
So all I want now is to have this 1.8L as my daily driver and be as smooth as possible.. carbs would be what $1500 to get it installed.. and a 6 convertion would be?? above 10K
Posted by: lapuwali Sep 8 2005, 08:09 PM
| QUOTE (cbenitah @ Sep 8 2005, 06:03 PM) |
| Well, the $ is just this.. I could do the rebuilt for whatever $$$K that would cost. But i dont see the future in THIS engine and I would rather save a couple of months more or so the get a 6 convertion done! So all I want now is to have this 1.8L as my daily driver and be as smooth as possible.. carbs would be what $1500 to get it installed.. and a 6 convertion would be?? above 10K |
And fixing the L-Jet would likely be under $100...
If you can't or won't do this yourself, find a mechanic who's worked on any European cars from the 80s, and you'll probably find someone who can fix L-Jet.
If you'd like to fix this yourself, get a book on Bosch fuel injection (there are several, but Charles Probst's book is best) and flip to the L-Jet troubleshooting section. You'll very likely have the problem fixed in a weekend.
Posted by: cbenitah Sep 8 2005, 08:14 PM
| QUOTE (lapuwali @ Sep 8 2005, 06:09 PM) |
| And fixing the L-Jet would likely be under $100... If you can't or won't do this yourself, find a mechanic who's worked on any European cars from the 80s, and you'll probably find someone who can fix L-Jet. If you'd like to fix this yourself, get a book on Bosch fuel injection (there are several, but Charles Probst's book is best) and flip to the L-Jet troubleshooting section. You'll very likely have the problem fixed in a weekend. |
Is it worth fixing the L-Jet though? My mechanic said its a bad one from the begining etc.. and that either a convertion or put carbs on it would be the smart deal.. i dunno.. Just want it to run for now, which it does much to your guys's help!
Posted by: trekkor Sep 8 2005, 08:15 PM
Must..Fight...Urge...to..Post.... 
KT
I'll only tell you what I think if you ask me... 
Posted by: ClayPerrine Sep 8 2005, 08:29 PM
| QUOTE (cbenitah @ Sep 8 2005, 08:14 PM) |
| My mechanic said its a bad one from the begining etc.. and that either a convertion or put carbs on it would be the smart deal.. i dunno.. Just want it to run for now, which it does much to your guys's help! |
You need to get a different "mechanic", cause the guy you have now is a neanderthal that knows nothing about Fuel Injection. Tell him to stick with chebbies.
The L-Jet system is the most popular fuel injection (if you base the claim on sheer numbers of cars running it). It was available on multiple European cars, and all the fuel injected Japanese cars of the 80s and 90s used some variation of L-jet.
It was the basis for the Motronic system, which is still in use by Bosch on the current 997.
Check the tube between the air flow meter and the throttle body for cracks. If you have any air leaks after the air flow meter, the mixture will lean out and you motor will run terribly.
Posted by: cbenitah Sep 8 2005, 08:45 PM
| QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Sep 8 2005, 06:29 PM) |
| You need to get a different "mechanic", cause the guy you have now is a neanderthal that knows nothing about Fuel Injection. Tell him to stick with chebbies. |
Well the thing is that I do trust him, he used to work at the volk. factory in germany. and has been a 911 race car mechanic/driver for several years...
I'll get the book and do some reading about it for now!
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Sep 8 2005, 09:23 PM
| QUOTE |
| Is it worth fixing the L-Jet though? My mechanic said its a bad one from the begining |
He has nothing to lose/potentially everything to gain by suggesting that huh...
Posted by: cbenitah Sep 8 2005, 09:42 PM
| QUOTE (bowlsby @ Sep 8 2005, 07:23 PM) |
| He has nothing to lose/potentially everything to gain by suggesting that huh... |
I am aware of just that! That is why I'm looking for people around me... San Diego...
That can show me help me etc to become the master mechanic i was born to be
no but being able to meet other teeners is worth a lot to me!
Posted by: double-a Sep 8 2005, 10:11 PM
if your injection is at fault, i vote fix it. last december i bought a car that hadn't been driven for 20 years, original 1.8 engine. long story short, we replaced some injection hose, seals on the oil filler neck, and other bits, and since then i've put maybe 2500 miles on it. no problems, starts every time and gets close to 20mpg. not bad for an old fossil, dug out of a garage and dusted off.
if you're going to troubleshoot l-jet, i highly recommend this site: http://manuals.type4.org/ljet, it was of great use in the process of elimination.
~a
Posted by: Travis Neff Sep 9 2005, 01:02 AM
Was this happening before your "Clutch Pop" episode? If not, I bet you might have got the clutch cable too tight.
Posted by: bd1308 Sep 9 2005, 06:23 AM
i did the same thing....then i burned myself real bad from the HEs trying to change the clutch cable tightness...
Posted by: redshift Sep 9 2005, 06:50 AM
| QUOTE (trekkor @ Sep 8 2005, 10:15 PM) |
| Must..Fight...Urge...to..Post.... KT I'll only tell you what I think if you ask me... |
Here KT...
YOUR MECHANIC IS A DUMBASS.
M
Posted by: DNHunt Sep 9 2005, 06:58 AM
Learn everything you can about your car (read and research). Apply some common sense cause you are as clever as any of us. Follow a logical plan of problem shooting. Only change 1 thing at a time. Be PATIENT (Britt wait for things to cool off) Argh!
As long as you are prepared don't be afraid to try to fix the FI.
Dave
Posted by: tat2dphreak Sep 9 2005, 07:36 AM
a stock car is best with FI, it's cheaper to fix the FI than convert to carbs(unless someone gave you a free set of webers) fix the FI... IF that is even the issue... I would do more diagnosis and be sure that is the problem... check compression, timing, plugs, all the OTHER things that make a car run too... don't just BET on FI being the issue...
oh yea:
| QUOTE |
| YOUR MECHANIC IS A DUMBASS. |
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Sep 9 2005, 08:48 AM
| QUOTE (cbenitah @ Sep 8 2005, 06:14 PM) | ||
Is it worth fixing the L-Jet though? My mechanic said its a bad one from the begining etc.. and that either a convertion or put carbs on it would be the smart deal.. i dunno.. Just want it to run for now, which it does much to your guys's help! |
Find another "mechanic", a real one. This guy sounds like an ignorant bozo who wants your money, any way he can get it, and this seems like a good way. That's $1500 less in the conversion fund. A lot of cars used this system for more than 20 years, including 280Zs, 928s, and many other performance cars. The Cap'n
Posted by: sean_v8_914 Sep 9 2005, 12:25 PM
come to the AX at teh stadium tomorrow. I'll have my V8 there and Im sure there will be various other teeners there.
bring hose clamps, vacuum line and carb cleaner. we can find teh vacuum leaks between run groups
Posted by: cbenitah Sep 9 2005, 02:23 PM
| QUOTE (sean_v8_914 @ Sep 9 2005, 10:25 AM) |
| come to the AX at teh stadium tomorrow. I'll have my V8 there and Im sure there will be various other teeners there. bring hose clamps, vacuum line and carb cleaner. we can find teh vacuum leaks between run groups |
I was looking at that but you have to be a PCA member to go there right? I'm gonna sign up for that today I think..
What time is it at etc?
I'm supposed to change my rear rotors and pads tomorrow, but i guess I'm over priced at that as well???
$200 for rotors + Pads
Posted by: cbenitah Sep 9 2005, 05:58 PM
| QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Sep 8 2005, 11:02 PM) |
| Was this happening before your "Clutch Pop" episode? If not, I bet you might have got the clutch cable too tight. |
The clutch feels much more loose now though.. dunno how to explain it, but i dont need as much power to floor it as i had to before it poped.. But this issue was already there before the clutch poped!
Posted by: Travis Neff Sep 9 2005, 06:02 PM
OK, then I am a little stumped.
To check the clutch freeplay: Grab your clutch pedal and PULL TOWARDS YOU, you should have about 1/2" of pull, if more than that - clutch cable needs to be tightened, if there is no slack, your clutch is too tight.
Posted by: Rand Sep 9 2005, 06:11 PM
OMG. Do you know what a slipping clutch feels like? If not, get someone else to drive it for you and report.
And please, if it's not crystal clear yet, DON'T convert from FI to carbs.
Glad you're here... please keep us posted before turning it over to your genious mechanic.
Posted by: cbenitah Sep 9 2005, 10:39 PM
| QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Sep 9 2005, 04:02 PM) |
| OK, then I am a little stumped. To check the clutch freeplay: Grab your clutch pedal and PULL TOWARDS YOU, you should have about 1/2" of pull, if more than that - clutch cable needs to be tightened, if there is no slack, your clutch is too tight. |
NOTHING, it feels like its as far back as possible... Can't move it at all, Clutch to tight? How can it feel like its more loose though when i press the pedel down...
Do i adjust that at the Clutch Pull Piece?
Posted by: cbenitah Sep 9 2005, 10:43 PM
| QUOTE (Rand @ Sep 9 2005, 04:11 PM) |
| Glad you're here... please keep us posted before turning it over to your genious mechanic. |
No idea how a slipping clutch feels like.. maybe but not by the wording.. remember i have english as a second language
although i've been here for 3 years now.. But they dont teach you car terms in Beg. Eng...I guess I'm naive.. Its much easier to trust people in Sweden, so i guess i need to obtain the knowledge i need to not get F-ed over...
Thanks for helping in everyway! I'm so glad I found this place! NOBEL PRICE to te founder
Posted by: trekkor Sep 9 2005, 10:51 PM
Go to that a/x, sir.
No PCA membership to watch or run.
free to watch I'm sure.
take the help.
KT
Posted by: cbenitah Sep 9 2005, 10:54 PM
| QUOTE (trekkor @ Sep 9 2005, 08:51 PM) |
| Go to that a/x, sir. take the help. <-------------- YES PLEASE |
I want to.... Just need to know time.. Doesnt say on the PCA website....
Posted by: Travis Neff Sep 9 2005, 11:05 PM
Yes your clutch is too tight. Go under the car where the pulley is for the clutch cable, at the end of the cable there is the throwout arm, there at the arm you make your adjustments. Loosen up the double nut (or nylock nut) at the end of the cable. Go back and check your freeplay at the pedal. It is a little back and forth to get your 1/2" and then lock the double nuts down (tighten them against each other.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)